Harbinger #16 Discussion

[Heath]

I started getting caught up with Invincible last night and read through 101. (Spoiler Warning!!!) They did the "death of a main character who wasn't going to stay dead" thing right. While it was teased at the end of the previous issue, they "killed" him and brought him back in the same issue. So, it felt more like just part of the story rather than a stunt or gimmick.

Torque's "death" and subsequent reveal that he (probably?) is not really dead still reeks of being a typical comic book gimmick to me. Something I don't expect from Valiant. I think it would have been much better if we had seen the "virtual reality pods" holding the Harbinger kids in the same issue that Kris bashed in Torque's skull (or perhaps as the last page of Harbinger Wars). It wouldn't have felt like such a cheap stunt then.

[grendeljd]

Finally got to read this. Another excellent issue, I'm loving the hints of 'Inception' in the layered realities the kids are trapped(?) in. Glad that Torque appears to be okay, though I'm not sure I trust he is just yet. Loved the whole Torquehalla reality TV tour too, so funny. Great characterization as usual - even though he's a bit of an adolescent jerk, I seriously like Torque when we get glimpses of how vulnerable he really feels as in this issue.

As others have commented, I'm intrigued to see that Harada has caught & trapped them all... I should re-read the end of the HW arc as well, but I was thinking that there is no reason why they would have specifically been caught in Vegas right away. They could have gotten away clear, but then been captured while actually trying to go to Cali... I'm thinking it happened off panel, and if so its open to speculation as to what happened.

[sonicdan]

[lorddunlow]

So, Dan, admit it, you just stalk artists and swipe their portfolios when they aren't looking, don't you?

[sonicdan]

The stalking part may be right but otherwise it usually involves giving them loads of money
DAN

[grendeljd]

Holy snap! That's nearly the entire book right there, Dan!

Was the rest unavailable, or unaffordable?

[sonicdan]

Holy snap! That's nearly the entire book right there, Dan!

Was the rest unavailable, or unaffordable?

It's usually a combination of both. Between inks and pencils there's was essentially 3 artists on this book.
I just picked up the 4 pages that Brian Level worked on including the last page reveal!

http://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiec ... ce=1060877" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DAN

[sonicdan]

[grendeljd]

[Watchtower]

Okay, I'm about to go full-on Troper mode, because I'm reading this thread and it looks like the big problem here is trope confusion. Pardon me as I fumble with the site's incredibly basic URL system.

All Just a Dream (as most people know it) is a variation of the Reset Button. The purpose of this button is to set things back to status quo as though what you saw never happened, usually without any kind of explanation. All Just a Dream gives it the explanation of "oh he was just dreaming the whole time!", but the purpose is the same: a return to normalcy. The writer can do whatever he wants in the dream sequence, knowing fully well that he has a Get Out Of Jail Free card that can undo any otherwise permanent changes.

This, however, is not a dream sequence. What we're looking at here is a textbook Lotus Eater Machine, where the hero is put into some sort of virtual reality, usually with the intention that he is forever trapped in his own personal heaven. The death and subsequent revival of Torque are Wham Shots designed to clue the reader in that something is wrong. If Dysart deliberately made Torque the one who "dies" to play of the expectation that he will die because he died in the original run, then that just makes him more devious, probably along the lines of a Trolling Creator.

TLDR Dysart's trying to *SQUEE* with our heads. If he really was copping out of killing Torque, then Torque would still be dead right now.

And after all this you still feel cheated, that's fine. More power to you. Just know that the card you're calling him out on is not the card he's playing.