Harbinger #15 Discussion

[MoonChild]

Bummer about Torque. Side note, my LCS gave me the 1:20 for cover instead of the Hairsine variant. Wonder why the mixup..

And you pointed out this egregious mistake to your lcs?

But of course I actually found out once I got home, not that I would tell them that anyway They actually stopped getting the 1:20's for me as they said they just dont sell enough Valiants to merrit ordering em for me at a retail of 10 bucks a pop. Tried to jack the price up to 15 and I said I'll pass. Ever since then every 1:20 I'v got has been at cover (Not many)

[KXXX]

There's no way any of this is real.

I think Kris is alone in some greater hallucination.

[bygranddesign]

Bummer about Torque. Side note, my LCS gave me the 1:20 for cover instead of the Hairsine variant. Wonder why the mixup..

And you pointed out this egregious mistake to your lcs?

But of course I actually found out once I got home, not that I would tell them that anyway They actually stopped getting the 1:20's for me as they said they just dont sell enough Valiants to merrit ordering em for me at a retail of 10 bucks a pop. Tried to jack the price up to 15 and I said I'll pass. Ever since then every 1:20 I'v got has been at cover (Not many)

niiice!

This is an important/memorable issue so that 1:20 at cover price might look like an even better deal a year from now

I'm getting these 1:20's for 20 bucks from my LCS - he gives me a 15% discount on my total order

so like 17 bucks

but still

[lorddunlow]

I just reread this. Couple of things:

I kept trying to make this a dream or hallucination that only Kris was experiencing, but I couldn't force it. Too many scenes without Kris.

I'm really thinking that Torque is dead now, mainly because the next issue is title "Requiem for Torque" - that would be a little misleading if he's not dead.

Aliens! Kris mentions the word alien twice. Once on the beach at the beginning stating the ocean is scary like it hides something alien, and again at the club when she tells Charlene that the party looks like aliens threw a hoedown in the desert.

I think we may be getting the first glance at the new threat that was hinted at in the Unity interview with Kindt.

Great Issue!

[KXXX]

I kept trying to make this a dream or hallucination that only Kris was experiencing, but I couldn't force it. Too many scenes without Kris.

I don't think that matters. We often dream impressions of things that have nothing to do with our self. Something alien is in her mind.

[KXXX]

I kept trying to make this a dream or hallucination that only Kris was experiencing, but I couldn't force it. Too many scenes without Kris.

I don't think that matters. We often dream impressions of things that have nothing to do with our self. Something alien is in her mind.

Everyone in this story is hyperbolus of their character, except Kris.

[bygranddesign]

One of the Psiot kids - Animalia - is on the cover of 17. I wonder how she might fit into this storyline?

She has the power to project things from her imagination ... maybe she is combining her powers with the Bleeding Monk's to mess with the renegades

I just reread this. Couple of things:

I kept trying to make this a dream or hallucination that only Kris was experiencing, but I couldn't force it. Too many scenes without Kris.

I'm really thinking that Torque is dead now, mainly because the next issue is title "Requiem for Torque" - that would be a little misleading if he's not dead.

Aliens! Kris mentions the word alien twice. Once on the beach at the beginning stating the ocean is scary like it hides something alien, and again at the club when she tells Charlene that the party looks like aliens threw a hoedown in the desert.

I think we may be getting the first glance at the new threat that was hinted at in the Unity interview with Kindt.

Great Issue!

Cool possibility also ... maybe some advanced alien race with psychic powers.

[Phantom]

Requiem for torque? Next issue.

Torque died in the first series, maybe *SQUEE* just got real.

[jmatt]

While I'm hoping this is some kind of dream-state, it would actually be pretty awesome if we had to see her carry this dark secret forever.

In another year, Torque will have been replaced and you won't miss him all that much -- but Kris having murdered one of her own team mates... that *SQUEE* is forever.

[lorddunlow]

While I'm hoping this is some kind of dream-state, it would actually be pretty awesome if we had to see her carry this dark secret forever.

In another year, Torque will have been replaced and you won't miss him all that much -- but Kris having murdered one of her own team mates... that *SQUEE* is forever.

+1

[CallMeBloodshot]

I just reread this. Couple of things:

I kept trying to make this a dream or hallucination that only Kris was experiencing, but I couldn't force it. Too many scenes without Kris.

I'm really thinking that Torque is dead now, mainly because the next issue is title "Requiem for Torque" - that would be a little misleading if he's not dead.

Aliens! Kris mentions the word alien twice. Once on the beach at the beginning stating the ocean is scary like it hides something alien, and again at the club when she tells Charlene that the party looks like aliens threw a hoedown in the desert.

I think we may be getting the first glance at the new threat that was hinted at in the Unity interview with Kindt.

Great Issue!

Wouldn't be the first time an issue title/preview was misleading. I'm not buying that he's dead.

[Zaphod]

From Josh's FB page:
ME: Hey Warren, people seem way more worked up/blown away/upset/*SQUEE* off by the end of Harbinger 15 than I thought they'd be.
Warren: Yeah! Isn't it great! People love it, Bro.
ME: Yeah... I guess...
Warren: Yeah!
ME: Uhm... maybe I made the wrong decision. Maybe we shouldn't have done this the way we did.
Warren: Regrets... achieve... nothing.
ME: Well, I was thinking. What if I rewrote 16?
Warren: Dude. Barry is almost done drawing the issue, Bro.
ME: We could scrap it and do it again! Woody Allen tossed out two films and redid them from scratch in the 80's! We got, what? Like 28 days before it hits? We can totally do this!
Warren: (silence)
ME: Warren?
(Silence)
ME: ... hello.
Warren: I gotto go. I have Venditti on the other line. Get me the script for 19 by Monday.
ME: Oka--
<click>
ME: --ay...
ME:...
ME: Talk to you later then.

#torquelives

[jmatt]

From Josh's FB page:
ME: Hey Warren, people seem way more worked up/blown away/upset/*SQUEE* off by the end of Harbinger 15 than I thought they'd be.
Warren: Yeah! Isn't it great! People love it, Bro.
ME: Yeah... I guess...
Warren: Yeah!
ME: Uhm... maybe I made the wrong decision. Maybe we shouldn't have done this the way we did.
Warren: Regrets... achieve... nothing.
ME: Well, I was thinking. What if I rewrote 16?
Warren: Dude. Barry is almost done drawing the issue, Bro.
ME: We could scrap it and do it again! Woody Allen tossed out two films and redid them from scratch in the 80's! We got, what? Like 28 days before it hits? We can totally do this!
Warren: (silence)
ME: Warren?
(Silence)
ME: ... hello.
Warren: I gotto go. I have Venditti on the other line. Get me the script for 19 by Monday.
ME: Oka--
<click>
ME: --ay...
ME:...
ME: Talk to you later then.

#torquelives

Totally +1

[hunter_peterson]

I just reread this. Couple of things:

I kept trying to make this a dream or hallucination that only Kris was experiencing, but I couldn't force it. Too many scenes without Kris.

I'm really thinking that Torque is dead now, mainly because the next issue is title "Requiem for Torque" - that would be a little misleading if he's not dead.

Aliens! Kris mentions the word alien twice. Once on the beach at the beginning stating the ocean is scary like it hides something alien, and again at the club when she tells Charlene that the party looks like aliens threw a hoedown in the desert.

I think we may be getting the first glance at the new threat that was hinted at in the Unity interview with Kindt.

Great Issue!

Yeah, I don't reckon this is just in her brain. I think they're in a communal mindscape, like when Harada brought Livewire into his mind. They're helping shape it with their desires and actions, but aren't in control of it. VERY Inception, actually. But I disagree about Torque- as long as the rest of the arc takes place in this setting, they will have to be acting like he IS dead. They wouldn't know any better.

[Uncle Yusuf]

Was a little apprehensive going into this issue after the Harbinger Wars event. Things seemed to be building up to a head for the throw down in Vegas, but now what?

I really appreciated seeing the Renegades have some downtime and relationships deepen. Pete and Torque posing down at the bodybuilding was hysterical! And the infamous Charlene/Kris smooch - my take - not going to be a relationship starting up, Charlene is just a wee bit more on the liberated side that way, and Kris was caught off guard but didnt mind it so much. Just another way she experienced letting her hair down. And Faith is clearly crushing on Pete...

Is this all a halucination? Sure kinda seems that way with all the weirdness experienced by members of the team. As for the ending... Yikes. Bad feeling here. Not sure what is going on, and I really hope it's not as bad as it looks, but yeaaaaaaaaaaah...

Yeah, I got to read Harbinger #15 earlier this evening before leaving home for work. I enjoyed it, for the most part. I didn't care for the kiss between Charlene and Kris, but it did bring some insight into why Kris is so sensitive any time Torque uses the word 'gay' in a manner which she considers to be derogatory.

Is the writer (Joshua Dysart) perhaps trying to allude that Kris is being sensitive about this because she herself may have an attraction towards females? Personally, I don't know and I don't care. As far as I'm concerned, Kris possibly being gay doesn't add very much to what I feel is already an interesting story.

I really love every scene with Faith. She is by far my favorite character in the Harbinger series. I love her and I don't have enough good things to say about her character and the way she's being handled so far by the writer, Joshua Dysart. I would love for Pete Stanchek to marry Faith at some point. I'm sure that this probably won't happen as I believe Pete is still in love with Kris and will be for a very long time.

Plus, it was alluded in Archer and Armstrong #12 that Faith may get together with Archer at some point in the future. I think that they'd make a great match for each other as well. I believe the ending is a hallucination Kris is having. Torque is too flawed and interesting a character to kill off so early in his addition to the Renegades.

[CallMeBloodshot]

Wow I guess Torque really is dead.

Dysart you sneaky bugger. Right after the whole "fate of Faith" thing, during "Perfect Day", all this so our guards would be completely down.

I gave this a 5/5, I'm upping it to 6/5

[Heath]

By the time I read the books, I don't really have anything to add to these threads, but I wanted to chime in here and mention how incredible this issue was! GREAT character moments starting out, with a seriously WTF?!:o ending. The best issue so far of an already excellent book.

Btw, I think Torque's death is real.

[krylox]

not my favorite issue, but it grew on me after a re-read. the storytelling is pretty strange, the whole thing's missing rhythm or something... even the intimate/fun moments feel somehow hollow/artificial. on the other hand, if everything really is a hallucination, this would totally make sense and dysart would be a master of the subtle storytelling...
can't give out a verdict until i read the next issue, though.

oh yeah, and i hope torque stays dead. let's be honest - yes, he's a better torque than in vh1, but still not the most interesting character. it's nice to have a redneck on the team, but the time had arrived, either to elevate the character and give him a completely new angle or just get rid of him.

[MoonChild]

I have to completely disagree with you. The new torque is a great character with much depth that could be explored for a long time. I really hope he's not dead again this time around. Now that would be cliche

[Brother Darque]

where did Peter find time the time to get so ripped?

[BugsySig]

where did Peter find time the time to get so ripped?

It's a mental projection like Harada's youthful appearance

[lorddunlow]

So I've been pondering this issue since Wednesday and I read it a third time. Torque's dead. I'm sure. Dysart is an evil genius. I hate him. He intentionally came up with a way to make Torque an interesting character that had depth - not just a throwaway character like in VH1. He did this to make us all think he wouldn't kill him this time around. Then, he lures us in thinking he's going to rehash the relationship between him and Kris only to have her to be the one to kill him. He is truly evil.

[Heath]

So I've been pondering this issue since Wednesday and I read it a third time. Torque's dead. I'm sure. Dysart is an evil genius. I hate him. He intentionally came up with a way to make Torque an interesting character that had depth - not just a throwaway character like in VH1. He did this to make us all think he wouldn't kill him this time around. Then, he lures us in thinking he's going to rehash the relationship between him and Kris only to have her to be the one to kill him. He is truly evil.

I agree that was a stroke of genius.

[Heath]

So I've been pondering this issue since Wednesday and I read it a third time. Torque's dead. I'm sure. Dysart is an evil genius. I hate him. He intentionally came up with a way to make Torque an interesting character that had depth - not just a throwaway character like in VH1. He did this to make us all think he wouldn't kill him this time around. Then, he lures us in thinking he's going to rehash the relationship between him and Kris only to have her to be the one to kill him. He is truly evil.

I agree that was a stroke of genius.

[ShadowTuga]

So I've been pondering this issue since Wednesday and I read it a third time. Torque's dead. I'm sure. Dysart is an evil genius. I hate him. He intentionally came up with a way to make Torque an interesting character that had depth - not just a throwaway character like in VH1. He did this to make us all think he wouldn't kill him this time around. Then, he lures us in thinking he's going to rehash the relationship between him and Kris only to have her to be the one to kill him. He is truly evil.

I'll have to agree, after a re-read i am inclined to think that JD's been mindfunkin us with Torque (made him an instant hit with the readers, "just" to kill him) but i'll add that whatever the outcome, I am Really enjoying this moment in VALIANT's history- i.e. the possible demise of an Important character for the 1st time.