The 1990s comic book fan confessional

[mrozisik]

What puzzles me the most is, industry people talk about an implosion, speculators moving out etc about the mid to late 1990's but the fact of the matter is, the product in the market was horrendous.

The only argument could be, even the horrible stuff was selling like bucketloads in early 1990s...

Yes, true, but if you drop the ball and stop producing something people want to read, how can you defend people deserting you.

1994 - 1998 Marvel and DC is simply awful. Awful. So is Valiant. So is most of Image.

Let's see. I'll go through the major Marvel stories of 1994-1997:

Clone Saga (arrgh)
Age of Apocalypse (mixed bag)
Avengers The Crossing (oh my...)
The never-ending soap opera of Rogue and Gambit which culminated with the Morlock Massacre mess
Fantastic Four Nobody Gets Out Alive (gah)
Punisher from three titles a month to zero (death by overexposure)
Marvel Edge (mostly mediocre, but at least it gave us the Skrull Kill Krew)
Punisher Meets Archie (this is an early version of trolling the fans)
Onslaught (meh)
Heroes Reborn (the pinnacle)

But there were glimmers of genius in this period

Marvels by Kurt Busiek and Alex Ross. Easily the best Marvel book of the 1990s
Captain America by Mark Waid and Ron Garney
Thunderbolts by Kurt Busiek and Mark Bagley
X-Man by Jeph Loeb and John Ostrander. And then Terry Kavanagh made a mess
Ka-Zar by Mark Waid and Andy Kubert
Untold Tales of Spider-Man by Kurt Busiek and Pat Olliffe
Deadpool by Joe Kelly
Alpha Flight by Steven Seagle

There are absolutely odd sparks of brilliance, but they tended to be creator oriented. I agree everything Alex Ross touched during that era was gold. Jeph loeb and Tim Sale were very good with their Batman. But in general, the entire industry went to toilet between 1994 - 1998. Arguably, the major problems started in 1993, all the signs were there, but everything went off a cliff in 1994. If you check the titles you liked from say 1990 to 1992, you will see there is signs of quality gaps starting in 1993, with a huge falling off a cliff in 1994 and beyond.

The saving grace (hard to admit now in hindsight) is Marvel Knights. All the titles they released from 1998 to 2001 were ranging from good to great and set the industry standard for the next decade. Also the entire Ultimate line. Do you remember how great it was when it first came out? If 1994 - 1998 was the great fall, 1998 - 2001 was rebuilding the castle.

Admitedly for me, Marvel ended after Civil War and DC after Infinite Crisis but I enjoy most of the major titles from circa 1998 - 2006 ish...things fell off a cliff from 2007 once again IMHO...

[erwinrafael]

What puzzles me the most is, industry people talk about an implosion, speculators moving out etc about the mid to late 1990's but the fact of the matter is, the product in the market was horrendous.

The only argument could be, even the horrible stuff was selling like bucketloads in early 1990s...

Yes, true, but if you drop the ball and stop producing something people want to read, how can you defend people deserting you.

1994 - 1998 Marvel and DC is simply awful. Awful. So is Valiant. So is most of Image.

Let's see. I'll go through the major Marvel stories of 1994-1997:

Clone Saga (arrgh)
Age of Apocalypse (mixed bag)
Avengers The Crossing (oh my...)
The never-ending soap opera of Rogue and Gambit which culminated with the Morlock Massacre mess
Fantastic Four Nobody Gets Out Alive (gah)
Punisher from three titles a month to zero (death by overexposure)
Marvel Edge (mostly mediocre, but at least it gave us the Skrull Kill Krew)
Punisher Meets Archie (this is an early version of trolling the fans)
Onslaught (meh)
Heroes Reborn (the pinnacle)

But there were glimmers of genius in this period

Marvels by Kurt Busiek and Alex Ross. Easily the best Marvel book of the 1990s
Captain America by Mark Waid and Ron Garney
Thunderbolts by Kurt Busiek and Mark Bagley
X-Man by Jeph Loeb and John Ostrander. And then Terry Kavanagh made a mess
Ka-Zar by Mark Waid and Andy Kubert
Untold Tales of Spider-Man by Kurt Busiek and Pat Olliffe
Deadpool by Joe Kelly
Alpha Flight by Steven Seagle

There are absolutely odd sparks of brilliance, but they tended to be creator oriented. I agree everything Alex Ross touched during that era was gold. Jeph loeb and Tim Sale were very good with their Batman. But in general, the entire industry went to toilet between 1994 - 1998. Arguably, the major problems started in 1993, all the signs were there, but everything went off a cliff in 1994. If you check the titles you liked from say 1990 to 1992, you will see there is signs of quality gaps starting in 1993, with a huge falling off a cliff in 1994 and beyond.

The saving grace (hard to admit now in hindsight) is Marvel Knights. All the titles they released from 1998 to 2001 were ranging from good to great and set the industry standard for the next decade. Also the entire Ultimate line. Do you remember how great it was when it first came out? If 1994 - 1998 was the great fall, 1998 - 2001 was rebuilding the castle.

Admitedly for me, Marvel ended after Civil War and DC after Infinite Crisis but I enjoy most of the major titles from circa 1998 - 2006 ish...things fell off a cliff from 2007 once again IMHO...

The Heroes Return coincided with Marvel Knights and Ultimate line. It was indeed a revival for Marvel Comics.

I would say that Marvel NOW has been a revival also. They have produced great books so far, the shuffling of creators really did wonders. Hickman is writing a great Avengers, Bendis found his touch again and is writing good X-Men titles. Remender is doing food with Uncanny Avengers and Captain America. And we have critically acclaimed books like Daredevil, Thor and Hawkeye. You may want to check them out.

[erwinrafael]

The 90's were still better than the 2000's as far as comics go, in my opinion. Aside from Crossgen and a few DC titles I felt the 2000's were nothing more than cheap tricks by Marvel and DC to get people to buy more comics due to events and mega-crossovers which I despise more than the variant cover scheme. In the 90's we have the eveloution of Image, Valiant, Malibu, and other companies, plus the X-Men were simply awesome in the early to mid 90's. Top Cow rose to prominence, Michael Turner became a star, Superman died (and then came back), and Heroes Return from Marvel was great (Heroes Reborn sucked). Plus we had some awesome cartoons based on X-Men, Spider-Man, The Tick, Superman, and Batman. Sure, the 90's had some rough times too and some bad comics, but every era had that too.

nah. 200s is way better than the 1990s. there is event fatigue for four years but we had a lot more outstanding runs. just for Marvel alone:

Ultimate Spider-Man
Ultimates 1 and 2
Dan Slott Spider-Man
Paul Jenkins' Peter Parker: Spider-Man
Morrison's New X-Men
Whedon and Cassaday's Astonishing X-Men
Bendis and Maleev's Dardevil
Brubaker's Daredevil
Mark Waid's Daredevil
Bruce Jones' Hulk
Greg Pak's Hulk
Waid and Ringo's Fantastic Four
Hickman's Fantastic Four/FF
Greg Rucka's Punisher
Garth Ennis' Punisher
Warren Ellis' Nextwave
Milligan and Allred's X-Statix/X-Force
Remender's Uncanny X-Force
Priest and Velluto's Black Panther
Peter David's X-Factor
Brubaker, Fraction and Aja's Immortal Iron Fist

[mrozisik]

The 90's were still better than the 2000's as far as comics go, in my opinion. Aside from Crossgen and a few DC titles I felt the 2000's were nothing more than cheap tricks by Marvel and DC to get people to buy more comics due to events and mega-crossovers which I despise more than the variant cover scheme. In the 90's we have the eveloution of Image, Valiant, Malibu, and other companies, plus the X-Men were simply awesome in the early to mid 90's. Top Cow rose to prominence, Michael Turner became a star, Superman died (and then came back), and Heroes Return from Marvel was great (Heroes Reborn sucked). Plus we had some awesome cartoons based on X-Men, Spider-Man, The Tick, Superman, and Batman. Sure, the 90's had some rough times too and some bad comics, but every era had that too.

nah. 200s is way better than the 1990s. there is event fatigue for four years but we had a lot more outstanding runs. just for Marvel alone:

Ultimate Spider-Man
Ultimates 1 and 2
Dan Slott Spider-Man
Paul Jenkins' Peter Parker: Spider-Man
Morrison's New X-Men
Whedon and Cassaday's Astonishing X-Men
Bendis and Maleev's Dardevil
Brubaker's Daredevil
Mark Waid's Daredevil
Bruce Jones' Hulk
Greg Pak's Hulk
Waid and Ringo's Fantastic Four
Hickman's Fantastic Four/FF
Greg Rucka's Punisher
Garth Ennis' Punisher
Warren Ellis' Nextwave
Milligan and Allred's X-Statix/X-Force
Remender's Uncanny X-Force
Priest and Velluto's Black Panther

I would say Shooter Era + DeFalco era is FANTASTIC. Then there is a big gap between 1993/1994 - 1998. From 1998 - 1999 there are signs of life again, and I would say 2000 - 2006 is as good as Shooter or DeFalco era. Then it is off to the toilet again.

Also for DC, 1985 - 1993 is simply FANTASTIC. Arguably their best years. Then a huge drop off as with everyone from 1994 but their recovery took longer, until 2002 when Batman 608 was released. From 2002 to 2006 DC is again FANTASTIC. Then from "One Year Later" onwards, it is off a cliff again...

[erwinrafael]

The 90's were still better than the 2000's as far as comics go, in my opinion. Aside from Crossgen and a few DC titles I felt the 2000's were nothing more than cheap tricks by Marvel and DC to get people to buy more comics due to events and mega-crossovers which I despise more than the variant cover scheme. In the 90's we have the eveloution of Image, Valiant, Malibu, and other companies, plus the X-Men were simply awesome in the early to mid 90's. Top Cow rose to prominence, Michael Turner became a star, Superman died (and then came back), and Heroes Return from Marvel was great (Heroes Reborn sucked). Plus we had some awesome cartoons based on X-Men, Spider-Man, The Tick, Superman, and Batman. Sure, the 90's had some rough times too and some bad comics, but every era had that too.

nah. 200s is way better than the 1990s. there is event fatigue for four years but we had a lot more outstanding runs. just for Marvel alone:

Ultimate Spider-Man
Ultimates 1 and 2
Dan Slott Spider-Man
Paul Jenkins' Peter Parker: Spider-Man
Morrison's New X-Men
Whedon and Cassaday's Astonishing X-Men
Bendis and Maleev's Dardevil
Brubaker's Daredevil
Mark Waid's Daredevil
Bruce Jones' Hulk
Greg Pak's Hulk
Waid and Ringo's Fantastic Four
Hickman's Fantastic Four/FF
Greg Rucka's Punisher
Garth Ennis' Punisher
Warren Ellis' Nextwave
Milligan and Allred's X-Statix/X-Force
Remender's Uncanny X-Force
Priest and Velluto's Black Panther

I would say Shooter Era + DeFalco era is FANTASTIC. Then there is a big gap between 1993/1994 - 1998. From 1998 - 1999 there are signs of life again, and I would say 2000 - 2006 is as good as Shooter or DeFalco era. Then it is off to the toilet again.

Also for DC, 1985 - 1993 is simply FANTASTIC. Arguably their best years. Then a huge drop off as with everyone from 1994 but their recovery took longer, until 2002 when Batman 608 was released. From 2002 to 2006 DC is again FANTASTIC. Then from "One Year Later" onwards, it is off a cliff again...

de Falco Era Marvel can not hold a candle to the titles I mentioned. Not even close. the only good things to come out of that era were some x-men titles (which are still far below morrison's and whedon's), peter david's hulk, mcfarlane spider-man, and fabian nicieza's new warriors and nomad. everything else was mediocre to bad. thee greatest works then were limited series: marvels and dd man without fear.

although there was also the infinity trilogy. and byrne's namor. hmmmm

[Cyberstrike]

I have another confession to make. I liked this version of Doctor Strange.



Of course it did turn out to be one of Doctor Strange's magically whipped up clones: Strange. But it was fun, seeing Doctor Strange getting "Spawned"

Me too

The same here, although I thought he was called Paradox.

[manga4life]

The 2000's were fine for comics, I just hated the excessive Marvel event treadmill and I have not read a Marvel book I've liked in over 10 full years. Its sad, Marvel used to be my universe of choice and then the 616 got boring and Ultimate Marvel was a great answer.....and then that got messed up pretty quickly.

I still preferred the 90's

[erwinrafael]

I have another confession to make. I liked this version of Doctor Strange.



Of course it did turn out to be one of Doctor Strange's magically whipped up clones: Strange. But it was fun, seeing Doctor Strange getting "Spawned"

Me too

The same here, although I thought he was called Paradox.

It depends on which period you are talking about: http://marvel.com/universe/Paradox" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also, I have to correct myself. Strange/ paradox is not a clone. He's a doppelganger. Hehehe

[Phantom]

Cannot recall the Superman man of steel issue 30 ~ what a cool idea.
Also the pop up cover.

Is their a thread devoted to the best gimic cover? Has that been done before?
When I get some spare cash, I am buying Man of steel 30, just for fun/

Nb ~ I am sure the Ghost rider glow in the dark cover was issue 15. I still have a copy and love it.

Fun link to gimick cover at newarama

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/comic-b ... rface.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;