X-O Manowar #11 discussion thread

[erwinrafael]

I really liked this issue, and most of my thoughts would just be repeating what's been said already. Am I the only one who was expecting more from this issue? I think I would have enjoyed it more if it hadn't been hyped so much by Valiant. I went in expecting the best VEI issue to date. It was good, but I'd put it at #4 out all 5 books this month.

Based from the solicitations, I am expecting the best issue to be the third issue.

[manga4life]

I really liked this issue, and most of my thoughts would just be repeating what's been said already. Am I the only one who was expecting more from this issue? I think I would have enjoyed it more if it hadn't been hyped so much by Valiant. I went in expecting the best VEI issue to date. It was good, but I'd put it at #4 out all 5 books this month.

Keep in mind that this is the beginning of an epic, I expected a slow start which should lead into a full scale war over time. They've got a plan in place and every good story starts off with a start such as this so that you can bring it to a boil, by issue #13 we should be eye deep in death and decay.

[jmatt]

Am I the only one who was expecting more from this issue?

I dunno, Aric rediscovering his lost people is a pretty monumental turn of events. There's so many great places this can go.

[400yrs]

I liked this issue alot. I liked the art all the way through. I believe this was Nord's first shot at inking and it was a really good one. I saw the inked pages on his Facebook and the border pages were great. I know people are complaining about the blockiness or sketchiness of the art in the back half of the book, but I really like that style. It's similar to Cliff Chiang's style and he's very well regarded. It also reminded me of the last issue of Shadowman where Hall inked himself and personally, artwise, I thought that was the best issue in the run.

Yeah, there are some things he could get better on, but this was great for a first published ink job.

I also agree that something may have been off in the coloring. Baumann is good, but I'm not sure he's the best fit with Nord.

I think Valiant should just decide to do a Conan on Nord's art. Meaning, they should do straight-to-pencils colors. His best art is in that form anyway.

Wouldn't that look even more sketchy? That's what people are complaining about.

[400yrs]

Right now for me:

VEI Harby is better overall.
VEI XO is even
VEI Bloodshot is better (due to the last little bit)
VEI ARcher and A is not better (but really, how could it be? VH1 A&A 0-12 is one of the BEST comics can be)
VEI Shadowman is not better

Me:

VEI Harby is way better.
VEI X-O is much better.
VEI Archer and Armstrong is even (I dropped this after #6, but liked it. For $3.99 I have to love it).
VEI Bloodshot is about even (was much better until Chainsaw. That took me out of the story and I dropped it).
VEI Shadowman is not even in the same ballpark as VH1. Dropped after the second issue.

[BugsySig]

Right now for me:

VEI Harby is better overall.
VEI XO is even
VEI Bloodshot is better (due to the last little bit)
VEI ARcher and A is not better (but really, how could it be? VH1 A&A 0-12 is one of the BEST comics can be)
VEI Shadowman is not better

Me:

VEI Harby is way better.
VEI X-O is much better.
VEI Archer and Armstrong is even (I dropped this after #6, but liked it. For $3.99 I have to love it).
VEI Bloodshot is about even (was much better until Chainsaw. That took me out of the story and I dropped it).
VEI Shadowman is not even in the same ballpark as VH1. Dropped after the second issue.

Try Shadowman #5. It had a much different feel to it and may convince you to finish the next arc. I was not a huge fan of the first arc, but #5 really turned it around for me much like XO #5 did.

I have committed to at least the first 12 issues/3 arcs for each title in order to let them find their groove. Of course I don't pick up that many books each month, so I can afford to give them time

[erwinrafael]

I think Valiant should just decide to do a Conan on Nord's art. Meaning, they should do straight-to-pencils colors. His best art is in that form anyway.

Wouldn't that look even more sketchy? That's what people are complaining about.

Most of the complaints are not actually about sketchiness but more about lacking in details and looking rushed. And since Moose Baumann can not seem to fill in the textures that are in Nords's pencils, I think it would be better to color from the pencils so that the texture would remain. Like this work:



Anyway, I can not fathom why these pages of art (although in this case, inked not plain pencil) suddenly looked bad (or not so good) on the printed page:

[400yrs]

Yeah, I don't think they should go with that Conan style for X-O because it would look too much like Conan. There are some inks in there.... at least it looks that way.

I agree that the coloring is the main problem though. Moose's colors are too clean.

[BugsySig]

Yeah, I don't think they should go with that Conan style for X-O because it would look too much like Conan. There are some inks in there.... at least it looks that way.

I agree that the coloring is the main problem though. Moose's colors are too clean.

Yeah, not bad, just not the right fit with Nord.

[jmatt]

Hmm, I like that Conan cover. Put me down for inkless Nord.

[Carson]

I'm just gonna throw this out there...

That prologue is AMAZING. I love art nouveau. Google Alphonse Mucha if you're not familiar with this turn of the century French illustrative style. Joe Quesada was one of the first comic artists to incorporate ornate art nouveau borders into comics (see the old school ninjak and xo 0 issues).

Cary did an amazing job utilizing the organic ornamental treatment to frame the mythical telling of the origin of Shanhara.

Did you all notice how the plants withered and died as the torment raped the planet? It went from lush vegetation to withered vines. Then, when Shanhara appeared and the vine beat off the torment, the planet revived and the ornamentation became lush again. Brilliant. V-Ditty confirmed via twitter that was all Cary's idea. The guy is mad talented.

Maybe the rest of the issue was sketchy and paled in compared to the ornate prologue. Maybe us fans were spoiled by the prologue and that's why the rest of the book seems less impact-full.

Regardless, those first six pages are some of the most beautiful pages I've seen come out of VEI. Bar none.

[Dallow Spicer1]

Am I the only one who was expecting more from this issue?

I dunno, Aric rediscovering his lost people is a pretty monumental turn of events. There's so many great places this can go.

Excellent issue, agree with many points already made. Aric slaughtering the Vine priests leaves mixed emotions (which I'm sure was VDitti's intention) as on one hand you can see why Aric would want to exact revenge on the entire Vine race but at the same time priests are not soldiers. Great writing as it makes the reader think!

Loved the ending which as jmatt points out allows so many possibilities!

Cover A I thought was the best 'standard' XO cover put out so far.

I agree with the critcism of the art in the 2nd half of the book but I still think Nord (and Garbett) have created a great look and feel for the book. 4 out of 5 for this issue


Ps VEI XO is significantly better than VH1, can't believe it's up for debate!

[erwinrafael]

Yeah, I don't think they should go with that Conan style for X-O because it would look too much like Conan. There are some inks in there.... at least it looks that way.

I agree that the coloring is the main problem though. Moose's colors are too clean.

There are no inks in Nord's Conan work. The heavy blacks were done through a combination of Nord's pencils and the colors.

And surely we could just wish that the one who colored Nord in Conan would be his colorist in X-O Manowar. And that is none other than the great Dave Stewart. But we know that will not happen.

Anyway, If Nord would color his X-O work, how would it look? Something like this?



And I hope Moose would do justice to this piece of art next issue:

I'm just gonna throw this out there...

That prologue is AMAZING. I love art nouveau. Google Alphonse Mucha if you're not familiar with this turn of the century French illustrative style. Joe Quesada was one of the first comic artists to incorporate ornate art nouveau borders into comics (see the old school ninjak and xo 0 issues).

Cary did an amazing job utilizing the organic ornamental treatment to frame the mythical telling of the origin of Shanhara.

Did you all notice how the plants withered and died as the torment raped the planet? It went from lush vegetation to withered vines. Then, when Shanhara appeared and the vine beat off the torment, the planet revived and the ornamentation became lush again. Brilliant. V-Ditty confirmed via twitter that was all Cary's idea. The guy is mad talented.

Maybe the rest of the issue was sketchy and paled in compared to the ornate prologue. Maybe us fans were spoiled by the prologue and that's why the rest of the book seems less impact-full.

The prologue is indeed amazing. Like I said, it's one of the best art that graced a VEI book so far.

Did you say Joe Quesada Mucha-inspired artwork? Man, I am really wishing Joe Q. would do regular art again.

[Baramos]

We're supposed to see Aric as slaughtering random, "innocent" Vine as brutal, yeah. Part of the theme going forward to me is going to be the cycle of violence that is perpetuated. Aric is still stuck in an ancient mindset of conquer or be conquered, seeking revenge, and the Vine, even though they have a lush history and all this technology, don't seem to have evolved morally past the Romans Aric fought 1600 years ago. This is in stark contrast to our modern sensibilities of viewing the bigger pictures and attempting to more adequately identify the source of suffer in societies, whether it be individuals or a systemic problem that needs altered.

Of course, contrasts could be made with our society, since we're not perfect either. We often assign blame for problems to large swathes of what we consider generic groups when they are both far more diverse than that and sometimes less to blame than systemic problems. The warrior caste or government of the Vine, and their ancient societal traditions, are the root of their brutal enslavement of other races, not every single Vine member. They probably have a similar mindset to Aric--they were enslaved by the Torment in the past, and in turn enslave others. This is the only type of life their culture has known.

In regards to Vine physiology, I do believe that like plants they are asexual or dualsexual and reproduce in some manner similar to plants rather than animal reproduction. That's why Alexander was so fascinated with occupying a human form and experiencing orgies with both human sexes and such--it's not something a Vine normally gets to experience

[Blood of Heroes]

In regards to Vine physiology, I do believe that like plants they are asexual or dualsexual and reproduce in some manner similar to plants rather than animal reproduction. That's why Alexander was so fascinated with occupying a human form and experiencing orgies with both human sexes and such--it's not something a Vine normally gets to experience

Could be, but Alexander is the descendant of a plantling. We don't know how long they live or if they only reproduce with other plantlings, but they've only ever had human form. The same would hold true for any plantling.

Maybe Alexander just likes to get down.

[Carson]

The prologue is indeed amazing. Like I said, it's one of the best art that graced a VEI book so far.

Did you say Joe Quesada Mucha-inspired artwork? Man, I am really wishing Joe Q. would do regular art again.

We are on the same page man. Love Quesada's old ornate illustrative style!

[erwinrafael]

We are on the same page man. Love Quesada's old ornate illustrative style!

Well, it's not actually an old style for our favorite artist. he still uses the style in his covers. Here is a recent cover he did for Wolverine Origins.

[Baramos]

In regards to Vine physiology, I do believe that like plants they are asexual or dualsexual and reproduce in some manner similar to plants rather than animal reproduction. That's why Alexander was so fascinated with occupying a human form and experiencing orgies with both human sexes and such--it's not something a Vine normally gets to experience

Could be, but Alexander is the descendant of a plantling. We don't know how long they live or if they only reproduce with other plantlings, but they've only ever had human form. The same would hold true for any plantling.

Maybe Alexander just likes to get down.

I guess that's possible. In any case he has zero interest in going back to Loam when he has such a decadent and intersting lifestyle on Earth.

Do you think the Vine planting descendants are 100% human except with the ability to telepathically connect, or do you think they still have some Vine physiology to them? It would be an interesting thing to come up in the comics eventually. Presumably the first plantings were human-Vine hybrids at a genetic level. They had human genes to look human but maybe that was the extent of the human genetic material input into them?

[Dallow Spicer1]

In regards to Vine physiology, I do believe that like plants they are asexual or dualsexual and reproduce in some manner similar to plants rather than animal reproduction. That's why Alexander was so fascinated with occupying a human form and experiencing orgies with both human sexes and such--it's not something a Vine normally gets to experience

Could be, but Alexander is the descendant of a plantling. We don't know how long they live or if they only reproduce with other plantlings, but they've only ever had human form. The same would hold true for any plantling.

Maybe Alexander just likes to get down.

I guess that's possible. In any case he has zero interest in going back to Loam when he has such a decadent and intersting lifestyle on Earth.

Do you think the Vine planting descendants are 100% human except with the ability to telepathically connect, or do you think they still have some Vine physiology to them? It would be an interesting thing to come up in the comics eventually. Presumably the first plantings were human-Vine hybrids at a genetic level. They had human genes to look human but maybe that was the extent of the human genetic material input into them?

I asked VDitti a similar question in a recent twitter Q&A and I think also talked about this on OTV podcast 97(?). My question was around what would show if a dead Planting had an autopsy performed on it? VDitti advised that the internal organs of a Planting mimic those of humans. I did not ask him what a Planting's DNA would show? Presumably there is some test that could be performed to distinguish human and Planting?

[lorddunlow]

In regards to Vine physiology, I do believe that like plants they are asexual or dualsexual and reproduce in some manner similar to plants rather than animal reproduction. That's why Alexander was so fascinated with occupying a human form and experiencing orgies with both human sexes and such--it's not something a Vine normally gets to experience

Could be, but Alexander is the descendant of a plantling. We don't know how long they live or if they only reproduce with other plantlings, but they've only ever had human form. The same would hold true for any plantling.

Maybe Alexander just likes to get down.

I guess that's possible. In any case he has zero interest in going back to Loam when he has such a decadent and intersting lifestyle on Earth.

Do you think the Vine planting descendants are 100% human except with the ability to telepathically connect, or do you think they still have some Vine physiology to them? It would be an interesting thing to come up in the comics eventually. Presumably the first plantings were human-Vine hybrids at a genetic level. They had human genes to look human but maybe that was the extent of the human genetic material input into them?

I asked VDitti a similar question in a recent twitter Q&A and I think also talked about this on OTV podcast 97(?). My question was around what would show if a dead Planting had an autopsy performed on it? VDitti advised that the internal organs of a Planting mimic those of humans. I did not ask him what a Planting's DNA would show? Presumably there is some test that could be performed to distinguish human and Planting?

Dunk 'em in water. They float! Cause they're made of wood, like a duck.

[Baramos]

In regards to Vine physiology, I do believe that like plants they are asexual or dualsexual and reproduce in some manner similar to plants rather than animal reproduction. That's why Alexander was so fascinated with occupying a human form and experiencing orgies with both human sexes and such--it's not something a Vine normally gets to experience

Could be, but Alexander is the descendant of a plantling. We don't know how long they live or if they only reproduce with other plantlings, but they've only ever had human form. The same would hold true for any plantling.

Maybe Alexander just likes to get down.

I guess that's possible. In any case he has zero interest in going back to Loam when he has such a decadent and intersting lifestyle on Earth.

Do you think the Vine planting descendants are 100% human except with the ability to telepathically connect, or do you think they still have some Vine physiology to them? It would be an interesting thing to come up in the comics eventually. Presumably the first plantings were human-Vine hybrids at a genetic level. They had human genes to look human but maybe that was the extent of the human genetic material input into them?

I asked VDitti a similar question in a recent twitter Q&A and I think also talked about this on OTV podcast 97(?). My question was around what would show if a dead Planting had an autopsy performed on it? VDitti advised that the internal organs of a Planting mimic those of humans. I did not ask him what a Planting's DNA would show? Presumably there is some test that could be performed to distinguish human and Planting?

Dunk 'em in water. They float! Cause they're made of wood, like a duck.

It's a fair cop.

[Blood of Heroes]

In regards to Vine physiology, I do believe that like plants they are asexual or dualsexual and reproduce in some manner similar to plants rather than animal reproduction. That's why Alexander was so fascinated with occupying a human form and experiencing orgies with both human sexes and such--it's not something a Vine normally gets to experience

Could be, but Alexander is the descendant of a plantling. We don't know how long they live or if they only reproduce with other plantlings, but they've only ever had human form. The same would hold true for any plantling.

Maybe Alexander just likes to get down.

I guess that's possible. In any case he has zero interest in going back to Loam when he has such a decadent and intersting lifestyle on Earth.

Do you think the Vine planting descendants are 100% human except with the ability to telepathically connect, or do you think they still have some Vine physiology to them? It would be an interesting thing to come up in the comics eventually. Presumably the first plantings were human-Vine hybrids at a genetic level. They had human genes to look human but maybe that was the extent of the human genetic material input into them?

I asked VDitti a similar question in a recent twitter Q&A and I think also talked about this on OTV podcast 97(?). My question was around what would show if a dead Planting had an autopsy performed on it? VDitti advised that the internal organs of a Planting mimic those of humans. I did not ask him what a Planting's DNA would show? Presumably there is some test that could be performed to distinguish human and Planting?

Dunk 'em in water. They float! Cause they're made of wood, like a duck.

Who are you who are so wise in the ways of science?

[Carson]

We are on the same page man. Love Quesada's old ornate illustrative style!

Well, it's not actually an old style for our favorite artist. he still uses the style in his covers. Here is a recent cover he did for Wolverine Origins.

Nice. Still love that style. *SQUEE* it, I'm about to out my money where my mouth is. Y'all hang tight....

[erwinrafael]

Good points. I thought the same thing about becoming sympathetic to the Vine as I read, though I still enjoyed them being slaughtered I also had the same thoughts about the art.

A few thoughts of my own:

1. Great surprise at the end. As I was reading the summary page on the inside cover I thought, "they keep saying Aric thought all his people were dead, including Gafti" Then, BAM!, there they were.

2. The warrior came from a land "Faraway" and taught them how to access the gatherings, which resembles the Akashic record in most ways. Could the warrior have been a human in the first place? Or I'll say something crazy: Could it have been Ivar?

Alright, now this is starting to percolate in my brain even more... I'll raise you one more level of crazy. What if Aric was the one who came to liberate the Vine from 'the Torment'?

What if at some point in the future, Ivar takes him into the past to save the Vine because it is something that has to be done? If Aric eventually comes to regret his actions in this Planet Death storyline, it would be very poetic if he was the one who had saved them in the past...

I just re-read the whole X-O Manowar series so far and I think there really is a possibility that the warrior from the faraway place could be human. Why? Because so far, we have seen Shanhara bond only with humans: Aric and Gafti. It never bonded with a Vine. I don't think the bonding is really about worthiness but actually more about genetic compatibility.

[grendeljd]

Good points. I thought the same thing about becoming sympathetic to the Vine as I read, though I still enjoyed them being slaughtered I also had the same thoughts about the art.

A few thoughts of my own:

1. Great surprise at the end. As I was reading the summary page on the inside cover I thought, "they keep saying Aric thought all his people were dead, including Gafti" Then, BAM!, there they were.

2. The warrior came from a land "Faraway" and taught them how to access the gatherings, which resembles the Akashic record in most ways. Could the warrior have been a human in the first place? Or I'll say something crazy: Could it have been Ivar?

Alright, now this is starting to percolate in my brain even more... I'll raise you one more level of crazy. What if Aric was the one who came to liberate the Vine from 'the Torment'?

What if at some point in the future, Ivar takes him into the past to save the Vine because it is something that has to be done? If Aric eventually comes to regret his actions in this Planet Death storyline, it would be very poetic if he was the one who had saved them in the past...

I just re-read the whole X-O Manowar series so far and I think there really is a possibility that the warrior from the faraway place could be human. Why? Because so far, we have seen Shanhara bond only with humans: Aric and Gafti. It never bonded with a Vine. I don't think the bonding is really about worthiness but actually more about genetic compatibility.

Agreed. While I do think that the XO technology seems to be advanced & versatile enough to be able to adapt to different, alien dna, I like the idea that it might have human origins... with time travel being possible in the Valiant Universe, a lot of other things are made possible as well...