Valiant vs. Shooter - COURT DOCUMENT

[leonmallett]

Damn, what a mess. This says to me that VEI was in fact working on bringing our dream to us, so with that fact alone, I want to apologize for any disheartening statements towars them. It seems they were "in negotiations to aquire the classic media properties" but that never came to fruitation. Now all I want to know is what pushed Shooter away in such a manner?

I guess the ONLY positive that has come out of this is that we have 100% confirmation that VEI, at least as of a few months ago, was planning to release comic books again--2010 was going to be their year. We know now that they are moving toward that direction, even if, allegedly, they also want a movie deal (can't say I blame them), but going into publishing is certainly moving in the right direction! Hopefully they have something in the works to release comics next year, as planned.

Technically it isn't confirmation of plans, just that they allege they had plans. I would see a confirmation only if endorsed by neutral or opposed parties at this time. Just a minor quibble.

[jbtheo]

After reading the complaint, it's pretty clear that Valiant doesn't have a large network infrastructure.

The loss of Shooter's notebook contents seems to indicate that all the planning documents were also lost means the company held no regular backups of Shooter's files and that the files were not held on a centralized file server.

The e-mail also seems to have not been centralized or server based as you would think that a lot of the information would be held there via communications with artists/writers and just regular e-mail exchanges.

Is that indicative of a lack of large network infrastructure or near-zero infrastructure?

haha their network consisted of gmail and local hard drives!

[Dr. Solar]

so what accounts for the additional delay (at least 6 months maybe more)? Time is money and I think we can assume that they will have used up a lot of capital with very low return (I guess less than $200,000 income from the three HC's), so each month of delay costs more money.

So the question is was the plan as they outlined it or wher there other factors thay were counting on, maybe around March or summer 2010, that fell through?

Leon, have you ever created a product and brought it to market via a marketing campaign?

I am doing this for one of my own projects, and I assure you that it takes far longer than you may think. It has taken me far longer than I thought it would.

If I described what I was doing, you would probably think it would take a month or two, but I've been working on it for 3 or 4 months, with a ton of work still in front of me.

In fact, I don't really talk about it publicly much, because I'm not ready to. I have a ton of stuff to get finished and put in place before I am ready to publicly share what I am working on.

I never thought of it, but it is an interesting parallel to VE.

[jbtheo]

Damn, what a mess. This says to me that VEI was in fact working on bringing our dream to us, so with that fact alone, I want to apologize for any disheartening statements towars them. It seems they were "in negotiations to aquire the classic media properties" but that never came to fruitation. Now all I want to know is what pushed Shooter away in such a manner?

I guess the ONLY positive that has come out of this is that we have 100% confirmation that VEI, at least as of a few months ago, was planning to release comic books again--2010 was going to be their year. We know now that they are moving toward that direction, even if, allegedly, they also want a movie deal (can't say I blame them), but going into publishing is certainly moving in the right direction! Hopefully they have something in the works to release comics next year, as planned.

Technically it isn't confirmation of plans, just that they allege they had plans. I would see a confirmation only if endorsed by neutral or opposed parties at this time. Just a minor quibble.

True, they coulld be fibbing a little to make the lawsuit have more weight, but they did state that Jim Shooter was the Editor-in-Chief, and his responsibilities considered of, among other things, the planning of a Valiant comic book relaunch.

[Dr. Solar]

They do state as fact that they were working to create comic books.

Clearly, posts on message boards stating that they are working on that are not enough.

A legal document that states that they are, signed and sworn to be true is not enough either?

[jbtheo]

They do state as fact that they were working to create comic books.

Clearly, posts on message boards stating that they are working on that are not enough.

A legal document that states that they are, signed and sworn to be true is not enough either?

[MoonChild]

This Sucks, we came so close. Why does Shooter [And Valiant as a whole] always seem to run into this legal crap, it's just baffling and really makes you wonder.

[jbtheo]

This Sucks, we came so close. Why does Valiant always seem to run into this legal crap, it's just baffling and really makes you wonder.

Money money money makes the world go 'round...

[leonmallett]

Damn, what a mess. This says to me that VEI was in fact working on bringing our dream to us, so with that fact alone, I want to apologize for any disheartening statements towars them. It seems they were "in negotiations to aquire the classic media properties" but that never came to fruitation. Now all I want to know is what pushed Shooter away in such a manner?

I guess the ONLY positive that has come out of this is that we have 100% confirmation that VEI, at least as of a few months ago, was planning to release comic books again--2010 was going to be their year. We know now that they are moving toward that direction, even if, allegedly, they also want a movie deal (can't say I blame them), but going into publishing is certainly moving in the right direction! Hopefully they have something in the works to release comics next year, as planned.

Technically it isn't confirmation of plans, just that they allege they had plans. I would see a confirmation only if endorsed by neutral or opposed parties at this time. Just a minor quibble.

True, they coulld be fibbing a little to make the lawsuit have more weight, but they did state that Jim Shooter was the Editor-in-Chief, and his responsibilities considered of, among other things, the planning of a Valiant comic book relaunch.

True about the allegation of his position, but would he be able to dispute that claim if the other allegation of no signed contract is proven true?

If their assertion of the closeness of a GK3 deal is subject to some dispute (and we don't know factually how disputed it really is, but publicly at least it seems that DH had the stronger hand), then how much else that they have asserted is also disputable?

I wonder if the problem VEI may have is that in being so shadowy about their information, they may have caused themselves further headaches in supporting the allegations?

[MoonChild]

no one is making money like this is the problem.

[dave]

Am I incorrect in thinking that a confidentiality agreement does NOT equal an employment contract? Seems like VEI was quick to protect their interest by having Shooter sign the confidentiality agreement, but maybe not so quick to have Jim sign a contract to protect his financial interest and his medical benefits.

Interesting that the document mentions that VEI was negotiating for the Gold Key characters. I guess it could be that Dark Horse' agreement had expired, but I have no information on that.

It did indicate that he was being paid, and that he had the job of CEO. I don't know what you mean about medical benefits and what-not. It looks like there was far more than just the confidentiality agreement.

[Daniel Jackson]

I know when I first read that bit in the document about Jim Shooter being EIC my jaw about hit the floor.

[leonmallett]

They do state as fact that they were working to create comic books.

Clearly, posts on message boards stating that they are working on that are not enough.

A legal document that states that they are, signed and sworn to be true is not enough either?

They also state that Jim Shooter had full benefits, something that has been disputed already if we are to believe the post ascribed to Janet Jackson.

Thus legal documents are no more a certain source of facts than anything else. What those documents serves as is a set of allegations, no more really.

[MoonChild]

I know when I first read that bit in the document about Jim Shooter being EIC my jaw about hit the floor.

+1

[ckb]

Am I incorrect in thinking that a confidentiality agreement does NOT equal an employment contract? Seems like VEI was quick to protect their interest by having Shooter sign the confidentiality agreement, but maybe not so quick to have Jim sign a contract to protect his financial interest and his medical benefits.

Interesting that the document mentions that VEI was negotiating for the Gold Key characters. I guess it could be that Dark Horse' agreement had expired, but I have no information on that.

It did indicate that he was being paid, and that he had the job of CEO. I don't know what you mean about medical benefits and what-not. It looks like there was far more than just the confidentiality agreement.

This is something JJ has been saying - that Jim's heath coverage was screwed up. It doesn't pass the smell test for me. He either had coverage or he didn't. If he goes to VEI and says he's having trouble with his coverage, and they say "tough cookies", well that's something. If he goes to the doctor and they tell him they cannot confirm his coverage and it's a PITA to get it worked out, that's life.

[dave]

Page 6 per pdf / page 4 per the document footer, #12 has the wrong date. Dec 3, 2009 is in the future.

SO? He was talking about Magnus right then!

[Daniel Jackson]

Am I incorrect in thinking that a confidentiality agreement does NOT equal an employment contract? Seems like VEI was quick to protect their interest by having Shooter sign the confidentiality agreement, but maybe not so quick to have Jim sign a contract to protect his financial interest and his medical benefits.

Interesting that the document mentions that VEI was negotiating for the Gold Key characters. I guess it could be that Dark Horse' agreement had expired, but I have no information on that.

It did indicate that he was being paid, and that he had the job of CEO. I don't know what you mean about medical benefits and what-not. It looks like there was far more than just the confidentiality agreement.

Bro J is referring to the post Jay Jay made about Jim not having medical benefits. Someone posted the link from another board where she talks about this a couple of days ago in another thread.

[jbtheo]

True about the allegation of his position, but would he be able to dispute that claim if the other allegation of no signed contract is proven true?

No. But, why would they make him an Editor-in-Chief without a signed contract? Even if you work at Radio Shack part-time, they'll make you sign a contract. It's pretty standard stuff. But, I do see you're point here that we are making assumptions. We simply do not know the facts, as even the Court Document is all hearsay at this point until otherwise proven with hard evidence.

If their assertion of the closeness of a GK3 deal is subject to some dispute (and we don't know factually how disputed it really is, but publicly at least it seems that DH had the stronger hand), then how much else that they have asserted is also disputable?

Probably all of it. They have the burden of proof, not Jim Shooter. It is up to VEI is show that their claims are real and valid.

I wonder if the problem VEI may have is that in being so shadowy about their information, they may have caused themselves further headaches in supporting the allegations?

Probably. I don't know. They weren't even shadowy about it; they didn't say ANYTHING. But, I think it is probably good business sense to only start marketing your product when you are 100% sure it's ready to roll. Otherwise, you run the risk of *SQUEE* off the consumer when things are late or the company pulls a fast one and doesn't release said product.

[Dr. Solar]

They do state as fact that they were working to create comic books.

Clearly, posts on message boards stating that they are working on that are not enough.

A legal document that states that they are, signed and sworn to be true is not enough either?

They also state that Jim Shooter had full benefits, something that has been disputed already if we are to believe the post ascribed to Janet Jackson.

Thus legal documents are no more a certain source of facts than anything else. What those documents serves as is a set of allegations, no more really.

<sigh>

You're probably right.

They are probably making it all up because they are broke, and want a million dollars.

That explanation definitely makes the most sense.

They probably hired Jim to work on movies for them, because they wanted someone who wasn't really a movie guy to do that work. They didn't hire Jim for comics, after all, why hire someone who excels at making comics and let him make comics? They wanted Jim to write movie treatments. After all, why hire someone who is successful at getting movies made when you could just hire Jim Shooter to do it?

That makes perfect sense.

[dave]

Oh, well I opine first, read the facts later...

[jbtheo]

no one is making money like this is the problem.

I'm just saying that Valiant's problems in the past seemed to revolve around investors and money, and this is the problem again. Valiant Entertainment feels that they cannot make the money they were planning on without the Gold Key characters, and are suing Jim Shooter to try and re-coup that potential income for the company.

[jbtheo]

I know when I first read that bit in the document about Jim Shooter being EIC my jaw about hit the floor.

+1

I was ticked off when I read that. We got what we all wanted, but it's obviously not meant to be.

[SolarGod]

They do state as fact that they were working to create comic books.

Clearly, posts on message boards stating that they are working on that are not enough.

A legal document that states that they are, signed and sworn to be true is not enough either?

JJ made it very clear that VEI were trying to get them all to movie sign releases , so to me that seems like they were also very active in the movie department. No comment from Shooter or JJ about comic books.

[jbtheo]

They do state as fact that they were working to create comic books.

Clearly, posts on message boards stating that they are working on that are not enough.

A legal document that states that they are, signed and sworn to be true is not enough either?

JJ made it very clear that VEI were trying to get them all to movie sign releases , so to me that seems like they were also very active in the movie department. No comment from Shooter or JJ about comic books.

Ironically, that may have been part of the confidentiality agreement!

[Daniel Jackson]

I know when I first read that bit in the document about Jim Shooter being EIC my jaw about hit the floor.

+1

I was ticked off when I read that. We got what we all wanted, but it's obviously not meant to be.

Yeah, kinda like finally getting the keys to your dream car only to find out someone stole the thing before you could take it for a drive.