VIP ASHCAN AT SDCC! Prepare to be SHOCKED.

[depluto]

I think you can put me in the group that value's magnusr's opinion, and I would be interested in hearing more of what Joe has to say, but sheesh.

[X-O HoboJoe]

An "Aspie" is someone with Asperger's Syndrome. The vast majority of comic book fans (or model train fans, or collectible bottle cap fans) are Aspies. "We collect stuff because it make sense to collect it."

What Is Asperger Syndrome?
By Barbara L. Kirby
Founder of the OASIS Web site (www.aspergersyndrome.org)
Co-author of THE OASIS GUIDE TO ASPERGER SYNDROME (Crown, 2001, Revised 2005)

Individuals with AS can exhibit a variety of characteristics and the disorder can range from mild to severe. Persons with AS show marked deficiencies in social skills, have difficulties with transitions or changes and prefer sameness. They often have obsessive routines and may be preoccupied with a particular subject of interest. They have a great deal of difficulty reading nonverbal cues (body language) and very often the individual with AS has difficulty determining proper body space. Often overly sensitive to sounds, tastes, smells, and sights, the person with AS may prefer soft clothing, certain foods, and be bothered by sounds or lights no one else seems to hear or see. It's important to remember that the person with AS perceives the world very differently. Therefore, many behaviors that seem odd or unusual are due to those neurological differences and not the result of intentional rudeness or bad behavior, and most certainly not the result of "improper parenting".

By definition, those with AS have a normal IQ and many individuals (although not all), exhibit exceptional skill or talent in a specific area. Because of their high degree of functionality and their naiveté, those with AS are often viewed as eccentric or odd and can easily become victims of teasing and bullying. While language development seems, on the surface, normal, individuals with AS often have deficits in pragmatics and prosody. Vocabularies may be extraordinarily rich and some children sound like "little professors." However, persons with AS can be extremely literal and have difficulty using language in a social context.


Joe, I was unaware you are living with this condition and apologize for the things I've posted towards you. Given this information, everything clicked into place as the explanation behind what happened between you and ZWH in 2000 and why it's very hard for you to "revisit" any part of that time. I applaud the fact that you've managed to get as much done as you have in making things right. The jarring shock of divorce is hard for almost anyone -- I can only imagine what it's like for someone with Asperger's.
To the rest of my forum-brothers; please take this condition into account before taking umbrage at something jmpet posts. The brain of the Asperger's paint (as I am assuming I understand it) is wired differently, so expect and account for it. I'm in no way advocating ignoring jmpet, just be prepared to have a special context for his posts when you read them.

[Brother J]

An "Aspie" is someone with Asperger's Syndrome. The vast majority of comic book fans (or model train fans, or collectible bottle cap fans) are Aspies. "We collect stuff because it make sense to collect it."

What Is Asperger Syndrome?
By Barbara L. Kirby
Founder of the OASIS Web site (www.aspergersyndrome.org)
Co-author of THE OASIS GUIDE TO ASPERGER SYNDROME (Crown, 2001, Revised 2005)

Individuals with AS can exhibit a variety of characteristics and the disorder can range from mild to severe. Persons with AS show marked deficiencies in social skills, have difficulties with transitions or changes and prefer sameness. They often have obsessive routines and may be preoccupied with a particular subject of interest. They have a great deal of difficulty reading nonverbal cues (body language) and very often the individual with AS has difficulty determining proper body space. Often overly sensitive to sounds, tastes, smells, and sights, the person with AS may prefer soft clothing, certain foods, and be bothered by sounds or lights no one else seems to hear or see. It's important to remember that the person with AS perceives the world very differently. Therefore, many behaviors that seem odd or unusual are due to those neurological differences and not the result of intentional rudeness or bad behavior, and most certainly not the result of "improper parenting".

By definition, those with AS have a normal IQ and many individuals (although not all), exhibit exceptional skill or talent in a specific area. Because of their high degree of functionality and their naiveté, those with AS are often viewed as eccentric or odd and can easily become victims of teasing and bullying. While language development seems, on the surface, normal, individuals with AS often have deficits in pragmatics and prosody. Vocabularies may be extraordinarily rich and some children sound like "little professors." However, persons with AS can be extremely literal and have difficulty using language in a social context.


Joe, I was unaware you are living with this condition and apologize for the things I've posted towards you. Given this information, everything clicked into place as the explanation behind what happened between you and ZWH in 2000 and why it's very hard for you to "revisit" any part of that time. I applaud the fact that you've managed to get as much done as you have in making things right. The jarring shock of divorce is hard for almost anyone -- I can only imagine what it's like for someone with Asperger's.
To the rest of my forum-brothers; please take this condition into account before taking umbrage at something jmpet posts. The brain of the Asperger's paint (as I am assuming I understand it) is wired differently, so expect and account for it. I'm in no way advocating ignoring jmpet, just be prepared to have a special context for his posts when you read them.

That being said, this doesn't sound like something "the vast majority of collectors" have, it sounds more like a serious disorder to me.

[myron]

An "Aspie" is someone with Asperger's Syndrome. The vast majority of comic book fans (or model train fans, or collectible bottle cap fans) are Aspies. "We collect stuff because it make sense to collect it."

What Is Asperger Syndrome?
By Barbara L. Kirby
Founder of the OASIS Web site (www.aspergersyndrome.org)
Co-author of THE OASIS GUIDE TO ASPERGER SYNDROME (Crown, 2001, Revised 2005)

Individuals with AS can exhibit a variety of characteristics and the disorder can range from mild to severe. Persons with AS show marked deficiencies in social skills, have difficulties with transitions or changes and prefer sameness. They often have obsessive routines and may be preoccupied with a particular subject of interest. They have a great deal of difficulty reading nonverbal cues (body language) and very often the individual with AS has difficulty determining proper body space. Often overly sensitive to sounds, tastes, smells, and sights, the person with AS may prefer soft clothing, certain foods, and be bothered by sounds or lights no one else seems to hear or see. It's important to remember that the person with AS perceives the world very differently. Therefore, many behaviors that seem odd or unusual are due to those neurological differences and not the result of intentional rudeness or bad behavior, and most certainly not the result of "improper parenting".

By definition, those with AS have a normal IQ and many individuals (although not all), exhibit exceptional skill or talent in a specific area. Because of their high degree of functionality and their naiveté, those with AS are often viewed as eccentric or odd and can easily become victims of teasing and bullying. While language development seems, on the surface, normal, individuals with AS often have deficits in pragmatics and prosody. Vocabularies may be extraordinarily rich and some children sound like "little professors." However, persons with AS can be extremely literal and have difficulty using language in a social context.


Joe, I was unaware you are living with this condition and apologize for the things I've posted towards you. Given this information, everything clicked into place as the explanation behind what happened between you and ZWH in 2000 and why it's very hard for you to "revisit" any part of that time. I applaud the fact that you've managed to get as much done as you have in making things right. The jarring shock of divorce is hard for almost anyone -- I can only imagine what it's like for someone with Asperger's.
To the rest of my forum-brothers; please take this condition into account before taking umbrage at something jmpet posts. The brain of the Asperger's paint (as I am assuming I understand it) is wired differently, so expect and account for it. I'm in no way advocating ignoring jmpet, just be prepared to have a special context for his posts when you read them.

That being said, this doesn't sound like something "the vast majority of collectors" have, it sounds more like a serious disorder to me.

It is...it's in the autistic spectrum.

[Valiant_1]

My son is diagnosed with autism, so this hits close to home with me.

[X-O HoboJoe]

An "Aspie" is someone with Asperger's Syndrome. The vast majority of comic book fans (or model train fans, or collectible bottle cap fans) are Aspies. "We collect stuff because it make sense to collect it."

What Is Asperger Syndrome?
By Barbara L. Kirby
Founder of the OASIS Web site (www.aspergersyndrome.org)
Co-author of THE OASIS GUIDE TO ASPERGER SYNDROME (Crown, 2001, Revised 2005)

Individuals with AS can exhibit a variety of characteristics and the disorder can range from mild to severe. Persons with AS show marked deficiencies in social skills, have difficulties with transitions or changes and prefer sameness. They often have obsessive routines and may be preoccupied with a particular subject of interest. They have a great deal of difficulty reading nonverbal cues (body language) and very often the individual with AS has difficulty determining proper body space. Often overly sensitive to sounds, tastes, smells, and sights, the person with AS may prefer soft clothing, certain foods, and be bothered by sounds or lights no one else seems to hear or see. It's important to remember that the person with AS perceives the world very differently. Therefore, many behaviors that seem odd or unusual are due to those neurological differences and not the result of intentional rudeness or bad behavior, and most certainly not the result of "improper parenting".

By definition, those with AS have a normal IQ and many individuals (although not all), exhibit exceptional skill or talent in a specific area. Because of their high degree of functionality and their naiveté, those with AS are often viewed as eccentric or odd and can easily become victims of teasing and bullying. While language development seems, on the surface, normal, individuals with AS often have deficits in pragmatics and prosody. Vocabularies may be extraordinarily rich and some children sound like "little professors." However, persons with AS can be extremely literal and have difficulty using language in a social context.


Joe, I was unaware you are living with this condition and apologize for the things I've posted towards you. Given this information, everything clicked into place as the explanation behind what happened between you and ZWH in 2000 and why it's very hard for you to "revisit" any part of that time. I applaud the fact that you've managed to get as much done as you have in making things right. The jarring shock of divorce is hard for almost anyone -- I can only imagine what it's like for someone with Asperger's.
To the rest of my forum-brothers; please take this condition into account before taking umbrage at something jmpet posts. The brain of the Asperger's paint (as I am assuming I understand it) is wired differently, so expect and account for it. I'm in no way advocating ignoring jmpet, just be prepared to have a special context for his posts when you read them.

That being said, this doesn't sound like something "the vast majority of collectors" have, it sounds more like a serious disorder to me.

It is...it's in the autistic spectrum.

Exactly. That's why I went back and deleted the offensive posts as soon as I realized this was the case.

[muzzsucker]

This is a good opening move, but I fear even this is not enough. Remember the hub-bub NIO had? Where'd all that go?

no, please elaborate

[leonmallett]

An "Aspie" is someone with Asperger's Syndrome. The vast majority of comic book fans (or model train fans, or collectible bottle cap fans) are Aspies. "We collect stuff because it make sense to collect it."

What Is Asperger Syndrome?
By Barbara L. Kirby
Founder of the OASIS Web site (www.aspergersyndrome.org)
Co-author of THE OASIS GUIDE TO ASPERGER SYNDROME (Crown, 2001, Revised 2005)

Individuals with AS can exhibit a variety of characteristics and the disorder can range from mild to severe. Persons with AS show marked deficiencies in social skills, have difficulties with transitions or changes and prefer sameness. They often have obsessive routines and may be preoccupied with a particular subject of interest. They have a great deal of difficulty reading nonverbal cues (body language) and very often the individual with AS has difficulty determining proper body space. Often overly sensitive to sounds, tastes, smells, and sights, the person with AS may prefer soft clothing, certain foods, and be bothered by sounds or lights no one else seems to hear or see. It's important to remember that the person with AS perceives the world very differently. Therefore, many behaviors that seem odd or unusual are due to those neurological differences and not the result of intentional rudeness or bad behavior, and most certainly not the result of "improper parenting".

By definition, those with AS have a normal IQ and many individuals (although not all), exhibit exceptional skill or talent in a specific area. Because of their high degree of functionality and their naiveté, those with AS are often viewed as eccentric or odd and can easily become victims of teasing and bullying. While language development seems, on the surface, normal, individuals with AS often have deficits in pragmatics and prosody. Vocabularies may be extraordinarily rich and some children sound like "little professors." However, persons with AS can be extremely literal and have difficulty using language in a social context.


Joe, I was unaware you are living with this condition and apologize for the things I've posted towards you. Given this information, everything clicked into place as the explanation behind what happened between you and ZWH in 2000 and why it's very hard for you to "revisit" any part of that time. I applaud the fact that you've managed to get as much done as you have in making things right. The jarring shock of divorce is hard for almost anyone -- I can only imagine what it's like for someone with Asperger's.
To the rest of my forum-brothers; please take this condition into account before taking umbrage at something jmpet posts. The brain of the Asperger's paint (as I am assuming I understand it) is wired differently, so expect and account for it. I'm in no way advocating ignoring jmpet, just be prepared to have a special context for his posts when you read them.

I don't think jmpet is seeking special dispensation. Equally he is diagnosing others (virtually all comics fans and other hobbyists in general, ZephyrWasHOT!! in particular) with his same condition, which is plain wrong. His may be a mild case, or may be self-diagnosed for all we know (and of course it may not be - I will give him the benefit of the doubt in relation to himself of course, but not in diagnosing others). He has argued his point and made his case hereabouts. He has insulted and been insulted, and I think demonstrated awareness of the same as well as building argument in his posts. That leads me to suggest that caution needs to be exercised that in compensating (if that is what you are advocating X-O HoboJoe, and I am sorry if I have mis-read you), that people don't over-compensate.

[ManofTheAtom]

I do hope that the ashcan doesn't lead VEI down the same path that Defiant went through with Plasm.

(see what I did there? I brought the discussion back on topic)

[thePike]

I do hope that the ashcan doesn't lead VEI down the same path that Defiant went through with Plasm.

(see what I did there? I brought the discussion back on topic)

[leonmallett]

I do hope that the ashcan doesn't lead VEI down the same path that Defiant went through with Plasm.

(see what I did there? I brought the discussion back on topic)

Is that wise? Around here?

Whatever next?

[X-O HoboJoe]

An "Aspie" is someone with Asperger's Syndrome. The vast majority of comic book fans (or model train fans, or collectible bottle cap fans) are Aspies. "We collect stuff because it make sense to collect it."

What Is Asperger Syndrome?
By Barbara L. Kirby
Founder of the OASIS Web site (www.aspergersyndrome.org)
Co-author of THE OASIS GUIDE TO ASPERGER SYNDROME (Crown, 2001, Revised 2005)

Individuals with AS can exhibit a variety of characteristics and the disorder can range from mild to severe. Persons with AS show marked deficiencies in social skills, have difficulties with transitions or changes and prefer sameness. They often have obsessive routines and may be preoccupied with a particular subject of interest. They have a great deal of difficulty reading nonverbal cues (body language) and very often the individual with AS has difficulty determining proper body space. Often overly sensitive to sounds, tastes, smells, and sights, the person with AS may prefer soft clothing, certain foods, and be bothered by sounds or lights no one else seems to hear or see. It's important to remember that the person with AS perceives the world very differently. Therefore, many behaviors that seem odd or unusual are due to those neurological differences and not the result of intentional rudeness or bad behavior, and most certainly not the result of "improper parenting".

By definition, those with AS have a normal IQ and many individuals (although not all), exhibit exceptional skill or talent in a specific area. Because of their high degree of functionality and their naiveté, those with AS are often viewed as eccentric or odd and can easily become victims of teasing and bullying. While language development seems, on the surface, normal, individuals with AS often have deficits in pragmatics and prosody. Vocabularies may be extraordinarily rich and some children sound like "little professors." However, persons with AS can be extremely literal and have difficulty using language in a social context.


Joe, I was unaware you are living with this condition and apologize for the things I've posted towards you. Given this information, everything clicked into place as the explanation behind what happened between you and ZWH in 2000 and why it's very hard for you to "revisit" any part of that time. I applaud the fact that you've managed to get as much done as you have in making things right. The jarring shock of divorce is hard for almost anyone -- I can only imagine what it's like for someone with Asperger's.
To the rest of my forum-brothers; please take this condition into account before taking umbrage at something jmpet posts. The brain of the Asperger's paint (as I am assuming I understand it) is wired differently, so expect and account for it. I'm in no way advocating ignoring jmpet, just be prepared to have a special context for his posts when you read them.

I don't think jmpet is seeking special dispensation. Equally he is diagnosing others (virtually all comics fans and other hobbyists in general, ZephyrWasHOT!! in particular) with his same condition, which is plain wrong. His may be a mild case, or may be self-diagnosed for all we know (and of course it may not be - I will give him the benefit of the doubt in relation to himself of course, but not in diagnosing others). He has argued his point and made his case hereabouts. He has insulted and been insulted, and I think demonstrated awareness of the same as well as building argument in his posts. That leads me to suggest that caution needs to be exercised that in compensating (if that is what you are advocating X-O HoboJoe, and I am sorry if I have mis-read you), that people don't over-compensate.

For myself, at this point, I suppose it means that I'll just pretty much keep in mind that anything that seems outlandish, insulting or strange in his posts probably seem completely different to him due to the Asperger's.

[leonmallett]

I do hope that the ashcan doesn't lead VEI down the same path that Defiant went through with Plasm.

(see what I did there? I brought the discussion back on topic)

Agreed. With a dose of irony, no less. Two doses in fact.

[X-O HoboJoe]

I do hope that the ashcan doesn't lead VEI down the same path that Defiant went through with Plasm.

(see what I did there? I brought the discussion back on topic)

Is that wise? Around here?

Whatever next?

Shame on all three of you. OK, what happened with Plasm? You mean the Marvel Plasmer debacle? I remember hearing something about that but don't recall the details . . .

[Zero]

I do hope that the ashcan doesn't lead VEI down the same path that Defiant went through with Plasm.

(see what I did there? I brought the discussion back on topic)

Haven't we been going down that road already though for the past couple years? It's not like VEI's heading to court for the first time on this.

The difference though, as I see it, is that VEI appears to have known a fight was coming from day 1. They apparently knew there was an issue with the trademarks when Taddeo pulled his bid after the auction. Didn't Taddeo pull his bid due to these trademark issues? If so, we can only assume they knew that a fight was coming in court & that they would have built that 'price' into their bid. That's a bit different than Defiant. They were blindsided & couldn't monetarily sustain the court battle.

[thePike]

Thats very true...

Defiant was blindsided and I'm assuming that the new guys at VEI would have forseen a reasonable amount of drama surrounding the re-release of characters/property that was already tainted by the effects of the late 90's.

I'm with Greg on the speculation that VEI is playing chess...

[X-O HoboJoe]

Thats very true...

Defiant was blindsided and I'm assuming that the new guys at VEI would have forseen a reasonable amount of drama surrounding the re-release of characters/property that was already tainted by the effects of the late 90's.

I'm with Greg on the speculation that VEI is playing chess...

How much impact on the question of timing will things like the website and the eBay store (and what it was selling) have on things for VEI?

[Zero]

Thats very true...

Defiant was blindsided and I'm assuming that the new guys at VEI would have forseen a reasonable amount of drama surrounding the re-release of characters/property that was already tainted by the effects of the late 90's.

I'm with Greg on the speculation that VEI is playing chess...

How much impact on the question of timing will things like the website and the eBay store (and what it was selling) have on things for VEI?

To me, they all look like things a reasonable person would look at. VEI won the copyrights at auction & paid good money for them. VEI has a website devoted to Valiant comics. VEI has an E-bay store. VEI has a solicitation in Previews. VEI has a Harbinger HC coming out later this month with a new story.

VIP has a few hundred dollars tied up in registration fees for some trademarks. VIP has a sloppy, at best, ash can available for sale.

This looks very one sided to me. To a court of law? I do not know...

[ManofTheAtom]

This is what I'd like to know

It's been said that VIP can sue VEI after the Harbinger HC comes out because VIP released the ashcan BEFORE VEI released the hardcover.

What about VEI releasing ads for the hc in Previews, Wizard, and this website BEFORE VIP released the ashcan?

Aren't those ads proof of intent to publish, and wouldn't those ads predate the release of VIP's ashcan by at least eight weeks or so?

Does the publisher need to make money off the product being released in order to be considered the rightful owner, or is releasing something enough for them to establish ownership?

Obviously VEI didn't directly make money off the ad space they bought in Wizard and Previews, but they did release that first.

Damn, now I wish I had given Chip five dollars or something for the print Hall signed, that way they could say that they released something and made money off it.

[ManofTheAtom]

How much impact on the question of timing will things like the website and the eBay store (and what it was selling) have on things for VEI?

I don't know about the site. If it was selling original material maybe, but it doesn't sell anything you can't find in other ebay stores.

[muzzsucker]

This is what I'd like to know

It's been said that VIP can sue VEI after the Harbinger HC comes out because VIP released the ashcan BEFORE VEI released the hardcover.

What about VEI releasing ads for the hc in Previews, Wizard, and this website BEFORE VIP released the ashcan?

Aren't those ads proof of intent to publish, and wouldn't those ads predate the release of VIP's ashcan by at least eight weeks or so?

Does the publisher need to make money off the product being released in order to be considered the rightful owner, or is releasing something enough for them to establish ownership?

Obviously VEI didn't directly make money off the ad space they bought in Wizard and Previews, but they did release that first.

Damn, now I wish I had given Chip five dollars or something for the print Hall signed, that way they could say that they released something and made money off it.

From what I know money has nothing to do with it also I think the ebay store counts. I remember the same thing happened with miracleman and they used ebay only to sell stuff

[X-O HoboJoe]

Thats very true...

Defiant was blindsided and I'm assuming that the new guys at VEI would have forseen a reasonable amount of drama surrounding the re-release of characters/property that was already tainted by the effects of the late 90's.

I'm with Greg on the speculation that VEI is playing chess...

How much impact on the question of timing will things like the website and the eBay store (and what it was selling) have on things for VEI?

To me, they all look like things a reasonable person would look at. VEI won the copyrights at auction & paid good money for them. VEI has a website devoted to Valiant comics. VEI has an E-bay store. VEI has a solicitation in Previews. VEI has a Harbinger HC coming out later this month with a new story.

VIP has a few hundred dollars tied up in registration fees for some trademarks. VIP has a sloppy, at best, ash can available for sale.

This looks very one sided to me. To a court of law? I do not know...

That's what scares me. Does it come down to an informed judgement call or a coin flip?

[X-O HoboJoe]

It's been said that VIP can sue VEI after the Harbinger HC comes out because VIP released the ashcan BEFORE VEI released the hardcover.

What about VEI releasing ads for the hc in Previews, Wizard, and this website BEFORE VIP released the ashcan?

Aren't those ads proof of intent to publish, and wouldn't those ads predate the release of VIP's ashcan by at least eight weeks or so?

Does the publisher need to make money off the product being released in order to be considered the rightful owner, or is releasing something enough for them to establish ownership?

Obviously VEI didn't directly make money off the ad space they bought in Wizard and Previews, but they did release that first.

Damn, now I wish I had given Chip five dollars or something for the print Hall signed, that way they could say that they released something and made money off it.

It's looking more and more like this ashcan mess is VIP grasping at straws, but that may be wishful thinking on my part.

So, nobody gave Chip any money at the con for anything Valiant related? Surely someone will remember doing this.

[cjv]

>2. Your disdain for the tone of the place. I was an 'outsider', and so was everyone who came later to the party. So what? If you don't like it you don't have to participate.<

I have disdain for this because I simply do not understand most of it, as do all other people not in this clique.

I can relate to not understanding...hell, I don't understand what is posted here half of the time.

However, I would humbly suggest that in light of not understanding, disdain as an initial response is less than beneficial.

I have a deep profound respect for all Valiant fans. Problem is, I don't know what a Valiant fan is anymore. Valiant fans are intrisically outcasts- they prefer crudely-drawn comics over lavishly-drawn Image comics- why? Because they have more substance.

A Valiant fan can mean many different things to different people. To some, it is a person who lavishly collected and read every issues to be point of tearing the comic from Super Mario Brothers on. To others it may mean someone who stopped reading Valiant on principle when it was bought by Acclaim. To yet others it may mean someone who had a newsletter or fan club. And yet to others it may mean someone who has CGC 9.8 copies of every issue Valiant ever put out.

And maybe to some it even means DC-Lite.

The fact is, there is no one definition of "Valiant fan". And as such, opinions on Valiant related issues and topics may vary widely. IMO there is no "right or wrong" when it comes to opinions on how to reignite Valiant or bring back what we all liked. Because when it comes down to it, regardless of how people may differ on their favorite character, the best villian, the best way to bring Valiant back, when Valiant started to go downhill, etc, regardless of the different opinion we can all agree that we liked Valiant once, and we want to bring it back to the same level.

>PS. Please use the quote function, it helps reading your posts.<

Don't know how to.

When you respond toa post, you can use the "quote" button. And you can also choose individual text segment to quote by using the quote tags [ q u o t e ] at the beginning and [ / q u o t e] at the ends (no spaces). It is easier to identify who said what.

Chris

[thePike]

I'm a cop, so I've got a little perspective on the court thing, but copyright/trademark/intellectual property rights law is all new territory to me. I'm not disputing the fact, but simply showing doubt, that someone would be required to sell something in order for these types of rules to go into affect. I thought just having the rights, allowed you to own these characters just like Random House owns Turok, Magnus and Solar, even if no one is making thing thats using these characters (please some one chime in if they can clarify this more).

The court preceedings would most likely go before a judge only (one that would be very well versed in the laws applicable to the case more than likely) rather than a jury. That also being said, intent to publish, and having something published do carry different weights in a court of law (how much depends on the variables in the above paragraph). I would believe, that VEI - having more stuff announced (advertisements, panels at cons', a website, an e-bay store, release dates on books, and the original character rights) would have more weight than a simple black & white, printed up on typing paper "ash can"; but then again, this could be my own personal preference (and ignorance of these specific laws) coming through...