My thoughts on D-Day... er... DMG-Day

[boilingchill]

Long time lurker, Valiant fan since the Shooter days and first time poster.

It's disheartening that my first post is a garbled attempt at trying to express how I feel about the takeover. I thank Greg for his articulation and I'm genuinely worried about the future of a comic book company that shaped my childhood/teendom. I guess I post only now because I seek some semblance of solace and solidarity from fellow fans.

Like I mentioned on my social media accounts, producing superhero comics is an art, literally and metaphorically speaking. We fans are a demanding bunch. There must be quality in the writing and art; the creators must maintain a tight continuity; even the paper stock matters. Dinesh has managed to captain the ship to deliver on all that. I really hope his high standards will be maintained. Dinesh has to be thanked profusely for bringing back what was great about Valiant and recapturing that magic. Moving forward however, the new owners must be cognisant of the fact that Valiant is a company with passionate fans that LOVE the comic books. The books must take precedence. Lose sight of that and this magic will dissipate.

[TheFerg714]

Long time lurker, Valiant fan since the Shooter days and first time poster.

It's disheartening that my first post is a garbled attempt at trying to express how I feel about the takeover. I thank Greg for his articulation and I'm genuinely worried about the future of a comic book company that shaped my childhood/teendom. I guess I post only now because I seek some semblance of solace and solidarity from fellow fans.

Like I mentioned on my social media accounts, producing superhero comics is an art, literally and metaphorically speaking. We fans are a demanding bunch. There must be quality in the writing and art; the creators must maintain a tight continuity; even the paper stock matters. Dinesh has managed to captain the ship to deliver on all that. I really hope his high standards will be maintained. Dinesh has to be thanked profusely for bringing back what was great about Valiant and recapturing that magic. Moving forward however, the new owners must be cognisant of the fact that Valiant is a company with passionate fans that LOVE the comic books. The books must take precedence. Lose sight of that and this magic will dissipate.

Valiant has a VERY small, but dedicated fanbase right now. Forcing out Dinesh is only proof that DMG either, a) doesn't care enough to know what kind of fans Valiant has, or b) doesn't care about comics at all.

[aj583]

Could be right. On the other hand, it could be the other way around. If they are clever about it, they will look out for an experienced editor in chief and continue to produce new stories. If it is an IP farm it makes sense to continue doing what VEI was doing before: create interesting outlines for future movies/tv series.

They can keep doing that, but they don't need to publish any non-trans media books to do it. They'll make new stories, within the confines of what's deemed relevant to DMG's larger media plans. I don't expect to see riskier books similar to Divinity or Savage being greenlit. Mintz was pretty transparent with his intentions. His aim is corporate synergy with the upcoming VEI cinematic universe. Does another volume War Mother add to that synergy? Maybe after they find a film studio interested in a War Mother movie. I expect fewer mini-series moving forward. Sadly

They will only find interested parties in a War Mother movie, if they have a great story to sell. And that's where the comics come into play...

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They sold a Dr. Mirage t.v. series this morning with only 9 VEI issues published. We have to see this as a precedent. War Mother has four issues. Maybe they'll publish two more mini-series, and feel that's enough to let the series sit until it becomes relevant to them. It's not that I want this to happen.

Look at Marvel. The bulk of their publishing slate is designed around what's being done in the film/t.v. universe. The Netflix characters get ongoings to coincide with their t.v. shows. A new Defenders comic is launched with a lineup identical to the Netflix show. The Guardians of the Galaxy are completely revamped to be identical to the film franchise. The Inhumans are suddenly pushed into the center of the Marvel universe, because originally an Inhumans movie was set to be released in 2019. The Fantastic Four literally disappear from the MCU. The X-Men are butchered beyond repair. All these decisions are made so that the publishing line matches the film line, and that titles that are published are published with the purpose of adding source material to announced films. Inhumans being the perfect example. Can't have an Inhuman film trilogy if there's hardly any books to work with. So obviously Marvel starts publishing more Inhumans comics. Then it becomes a t.v. show that bombs. No more Inhumans comics. Marvel did some other interesting publishing moves.

Relaunching Thunderbolts with Winter Soldier as the leader, after Winter Soldier was introduced in the MCU. Publishing a Black Widow ongoing, after Black Widow was introduced in the MCU. Relaunching Black Panther, after his film was announced. So on and so forth. Most of the comics they published were books that were clearly meant to either provide source material to announced projects, or hopefully be used as pitches for possible projects in the MCU.

Mintz's comments, to me, made it pretty clear he's going to introduce a Marvel style publishing line. We'll still get War Mother, Savage, and Britannia, but they won't be priorities anymore. But like I said earlier, they'll probably rotate out character in the publishing line when they feel they want to push a different IP into the spotlight.

Very well said here. I think this encapsulates the industry now. The classic, popular comic arcs were the geek lore for today’s movies. Marvel and DC movies pulled the best stories for today’s blockbusters.

New, creative comics will not lay the foundation for future movies. They are not profitable and will take a back seat as an extension of movie IP. Therefore, I don’t see a positive ending to vei comics. How long can warren and the remaining stalwarts last in this new reality?

We’re lucky we have some good story arcs in classic valiant and vei so we can hope to see our favorite arcs come to life. But I think we better hope that movies can give us our fix in the future. ;-(



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[WrathOfArmstrong]

I'm trying to make myself view this as a positive. But I loved VEI. I feel like I was mostly buying other comics as I waited for more VEI.

Acclaim era gave me a Shadowman video game--which I loved, still love and is the reason why I kept thinking about giving VEI a chance. I wasn't a fan before. but when I came from the video game to the Acclaim era comics, I walked right back out. But I still wanted Shadowman and Deadside, so discovering VEI and then all the other great(er) stories they have created (and going back to the original Valiant too) I was hooked. But without that experience--I would've viewed Valiant as many others do--as an 'also ran' to Marvel and DC. I'm not sure I would've gotten around to VEI without the right push--a push my LCS wasn't ever going to make.

It is possible DMG's media attack will invite new fans to discover the parts we have loved. But I really don't want to talk about Valiant the way I talk about Star Wars. I like (loved) Star Wars but Disney feels like they just want my money. They aren't movies I have to see--just movies I will see. I don't want to be milked. I am not a cow.

I do think as you all have said, we'll see a clear focus on the top media line characters. But I'd think Secret Weapons' acclaim (is that a bad word here) means we'll see plenty more of them. The question is who writes it? What gets canned because it doesn't fit with DMG's goals?

Right now, I feel like no matter what, quality dips on the printed page.

[agent_graves]

Long time lurker, Valiant fan since the Shooter days and first time poster.

It's disheartening that my first post is a garbled attempt at trying to express how I feel about the takeover. I thank Greg for his articulation and I'm genuinely worried about the future of a comic book company that shaped my childhood/teendom. I guess I post only now because I seek some semblance of solace and solidarity from fellow fans.

Like I mentioned on my social media accounts, producing superhero comics is an art, literally and metaphorically speaking. We fans are a demanding bunch. There must be quality in the writing and art; the creators must maintain a tight continuity; even the paper stock matters. Dinesh has managed to captain the ship to deliver on all that. I really hope his high standards will be maintained. Dinesh has to be thanked profusely for bringing back what was great about Valiant and recapturing that magic. Moving forward however, the new owners must be cognisant of the fact that Valiant is a company with passionate fans that LOVE the comic books. The books must take precedence. Lose sight of that and this magic will dissipate.

Valiant has a VERY small, but dedicated fanbase right now. Forcing out Dinesh is only proof that DMG either, a) doesn't care enough to know what kind of fans Valiant has, or b) doesn't care about comics at all.

I’m a go with “B”...

[lorddunlow]

Long time lurker, Valiant fan since the Shooter days and first time poster.

It's disheartening that my first post is a garbled attempt at trying to express how I feel about the takeover. I thank Greg for his articulation and I'm genuinely worried about the future of a comic book company that shaped my childhood/teendom. I guess I post only now because I seek some semblance of solace and solidarity from fellow fans.

Like I mentioned on my social media accounts, producing superhero comics is an art, literally and metaphorically speaking. We fans are a demanding bunch. There must be quality in the writing and art; the creators must maintain a tight continuity; even the paper stock matters. Dinesh has managed to captain the ship to deliver on all that. I really hope his high standards will be maintained. Dinesh has to be thanked profusely for bringing back what was great about Valiant and recapturing that magic. Moving forward however, the new owners must be cognisant of the fact that Valiant is a company with passionate fans that LOVE the comic books. The books must take precedence. Lose sight of that and this magic will dissipate.

Valiant has a VERY small, but dedicated fanbase right now. Forcing out Dinesh is only proof that DMG either, a) doesn't care enough to know what kind of fans Valiant has, or b) doesn't care about comics at all.

I’m a go with “B”...

Definitely B

[greg]

I believe the 2nd biggest loss that Valiant could have, after Dinesh, would be Warren Simons. Warren resigned from Valiant over the weekend. So, that's my "top two" for the Valiant Universe 2012 to present... no longer at Valiant.

What we will have going forward will still be Valiant. It will still be a few of the names that we've had since the 2012 restart. But we will know that any book which comes out isn't necessarily what Dinesh and Warren would have done. Since the public is always the last to know anything, I'd guess that changes were already happening within Valiant before we found out about Dinesh... and books like Shadowman #1 (2018) aren't necessarily fully Dinesh-approved.

It might be safest to "end" the Dinesh and Warren era of Valiant with the Harbinger Wars 2 #0 send-away book from December 2017 or with the end of Eternity (#4) in January 2018. We'll have a better hindsight someday, but it does already have an interesting "sound" (in my head) to say Valiant after Dinesh is "Post-Eternity" since VALIANT after Jim Shooter was "Post-Unity".

I'll avoid getting poetic or mushy and just say that I will always be a VALIANT fan 1991-1996, and especially Pre-Unity 1991-1992. I will always be a Valiant fan 2012-2017. There are parts of "other Valiant" that I like, some Acclaim, some non-superhero Valiant books, and even some things Pre-Valiant that I like (Turok 1954, Dr. Solar 1962, Magnus 1963). When we had no Valiant-related books at all, about 2002 to 2011, I was a fan of Valiant fans. Lots of guys and gals that I "met" online or met in real life who are Valiant fans... I'm also fans of them. I like what they have done and still do to support Valiant, even if their favorite Valiant things aren't my favorite Valiant things. When Valiant wasn't growing, I was still growing as a Valiant fan. None of the things or people I listed are 100% great. But I'm a fan. Whatever comes next, I'm sure it won't be 100% great, and I'm sure it won't be 100% bad. I'll be a fan. Maybe it will cause me to appreciate Dinesh and Warren's Valiant more. Maybe things get better. Maybe not. Maybe the next creators will just be OK, but if they're standing on the shoulders of giants... and Valiant has had a few... the comics could still be great.

The biggest issue sales in the history of Valiant occurred two years after Jim Shooter was gone. It was his vision that got Valiant there... even if he hadn't been around for years.
Dinesh and Warren won't be in charge if Valiant makes history again in a few years... but they put several multiples of more years into this Valiant than Jim put into the first one.

Dinesh and Warren, thank you.

[agent_graves]

I believe the 2nd biggest loss that Valiant could have, after Dinesh, would be Warren Simons. Warren resigned from Valiant over the weekend. So, that's my "top two" for the Valiant Universe 2012 to present... no longer at Valiant.

What we will have going forward will still be Valiant. It will still be a few of the names that we've had since the 2012 restart. But we will know that any book which comes out isn't necessarily what Dinesh and Warren would have done. Since the public is always the last to know anything, I'd guess that changes were already happening within Valiant before we found out about Dinesh... and books like Shadowman #1 (2018) aren't necessarily fully Dinesh-approved.

It might be safest to "end" the Dinesh and Warren era of Valiant with the Harbinger Wars 2 #0 send-away book from December 2017 or with the end of Eternity (#4) in January 2018. We'll have a better hindsight someday, but it does already have an interesting "sound" (in my head) to say Valiant after Dinesh is "Post-Eternity" since VALIANT after Jim Shooter was "Post-Unity".

I'll avoid getting poetic or mushy and just say that I will always be a VALIANT fan 1991-1996, and especially Pre-Unity 1991-1992. I will always be a Valiant fan 2012-2017. There are parts of "other Valiant" that I like, some Acclaim, some non-superhero Valiant books, and even some things Pre-Valiant that I like (Turok 1954, Dr. Solar 1962, Magnus 1963). When we had no Valiant-related books at all, about 2002 to 2011, I was a fan of Valiant fans. Lots of guys and gals that I "met" online or met in real life who are Valiant fans... I'm also fans of them. I like what they have done and still do to support Valiant, even if their favorite Valiant things aren't my favorite Valiant things. When Valiant wasn't growing, I was still growing as a Valiant fan. None of the things or people I listed are 100% great. But I'm a fan. Whatever comes next, I'm sure it won't be 100% great, and I'm sure it won't be 100% bad. I'll be a fan. Maybe it will cause me to appreciate Dinesh and Warren's Valiant more. Maybe things get better. Maybe not. Maybe the next creators will just be OK, but if they're standing on the shoulders of giants... and Valiant has had a few... the comics could still be great.

The biggest issue sales in the history of Valiant occurred two years after Jim Shooter was gone. It was his vision that got Valiant there... even if he hadn't been around for years.
Dinesh and Warren won't be in charge if Valiant makes history again in a few years... but they put several multiples of more years into this Valiant than Jim put into the first one.

Dinesh and Warren, thank you.

+1 Well Said!!

[grendeljd]

I believe the 2nd biggest loss that Valiant could have, after Dinesh, would be Warren Simons. Warren resigned from Valiant over the weekend. So, that's my "top two" for the Valiant Universe 2012 to present... no longer at Valiant.

What we will have going forward will still be Valiant. It will still be a few of the names that we've had since the 2012 restart. But we will know that any book which comes out isn't necessarily what Dinesh and Warren would have done. Since the public is always the last to know anything, I'd guess that changes were already happening within Valiant before we found out about Dinesh... and books like Shadowman #1 (2018) aren't necessarily fully Dinesh-approved.

It might be safest to "end" the Dinesh and Warren era of Valiant with the Harbinger Wars 2 #0 send-away book from December 2017 or with the end of Eternity (#4) in January 2018. We'll have a better hindsight someday, but it does already have an interesting "sound" (in my head) to say Valiant after Dinesh is "Post-Eternity" since VALIANT after Jim Shooter was "Post-Unity".

I'll avoid getting poetic or mushy and just say that I will always be a VALIANT fan 1991-1996, and especially Pre-Unity 1991-1992. I will always be a Valiant fan 2012-2017. There are parts of "other Valiant" that I like, some Acclaim, some non-superhero Valiant books, and even some things Pre-Valiant that I like (Turok 1954, Dr. Solar 1962, Magnus 1963). When we had no Valiant-related books at all, about 2002 to 2011, I was a fan of Valiant fans. Lots of guys and gals that I "met" online or met in real life who are Valiant fans... I'm also fans of them. I like what they have done and still do to support Valiant, even if their favorite Valiant things aren't my favorite Valiant things. When Valiant wasn't growing, I was still growing as a Valiant fan. None of the things or people I listed are 100% great. But I'm a fan. Whatever comes next, I'm sure it won't be 100% great, and I'm sure it won't be 100% bad. I'll be a fan. Maybe it will cause me to appreciate Dinesh and Warren's Valiant more. Maybe things get better. Maybe not. Maybe the next creators will just be OK, but if they're standing on the shoulders of giants... and Valiant has had a few... the comics could still be great.

The biggest issue sales in the history of Valiant occurred two years after Jim Shooter was gone. It was his vision that got Valiant there... even if he hadn't been around for years.
Dinesh and Warren won't be in charge if Valiant makes history again in a few years... but they put several multiples of more years into this Valiant than Jim put into the first one.

Dinesh and Warren, thank you.

+1 Well Said!!

+2 - very well said, sir. This very much feels like the end of the first era of VEI.

Its going to be tougher for me moving forward to remain as enthusiastic a fan of whatever comes next [see my post in the main Warren Resignation thread], but I am and will still be a Valiant fan of many specific parts of their entire history.