Rai: The History of the Valiant Universe

[FormerReader]

None of the properties he has worked on are in a better place now than they were before he wrote them. He has raised the bar on nothing.

A&A have been reduced to clown like goof balls and the Renegades are now a bunch of whiny 2 dimensional teen tropes. It's sad.

That's kinda where I'm at, too. A&A went too wacky packs, still not sure how I feel about the Renegade.

I'm in the same boat. A&A was terrible. Renegades has not impressed me so far.

[Shadowman99]

Does anybody else thinks that Rafer Roberts is just average, not bad,just average... After Dysart they could have brought in someone good to write Harbinger...Like Jeff Lemire...if not great at least better than average... And they got him to write the throwback to the greatest single issue in Valiant history?? I am sorry but this feels disappointing.

I agree and would go one further and say his writing is sub par.

My enthusiasm for Valiant is way down from what it once was, I feel Roberts involvement has damaged the universe. None of the properties he has worked on are in a better place now than they were before he wrote them. He has raised the bar on nothing. A&A have been reduced to clown like goof balls and the Renegades are now a bunch of whiny 2 dimensional teen tropes. It's sad.

Whilst I agree with Hawk's comments (although I wouldn't agree that Raf's "damaged" the universe, I wouldn't go that far personally) I think it's a little foolish for anyone to write any issue off ahead of time without having read it, let alone the Rai#1 issue in question, no offence intended.

Sure, feel disappointed as a result of anticipating that the issue won't be that great, that's fair enough. But to have apparently made final judgement on it months ahead of it hitting the shelf? Doesn't make logical sense to me.

I have no preconceptions for this issue, so I'll wait 'til I've read it and then head over to the Published Issues board to have a proper say on it.

[Manaf82]

Again would like to state that i have nothing against Rafer as a person,but his Valiant work has been pretty average,and especially after Fred Van Lente and Joshua Dysart..The new Harbinger has been average and i don't think bad guy or not none talks to themselves talking about their evil plan like solomon does..He feels like a lesser version of the bleeding monk..In fact this feels like an average indie book from image or dark horse which no one notices...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dallow Spicer1]

I'm disappointed with Portella on the art. IMO his art is a little bland and very much the opposite end of the spectrum to Crain (who's art I like but sometimes have difficult making out the panels). I'd have preferred CAFU on the art chores.

As far as Roberts on the writing, I'm enjoying Renegades for the most part, did not enjoy A&A at all but then I never did with FVL. No one has brought more goofiness to the Valiant U than FVL with his runs on A&A and Timewalker! Yes he has some very intriguing ideas but I think he was very short term in his writing, for example he made both Archer and Armstrong so over powered that they've become almost unwritable. Archer can access any power he wants and Armstrong can get an arrow through the eye and recover like it was nothing! Where's the danger? Where's the peril for these characters? What's the next writer supposed to do with that?!? So in that regard I feel a bit sorry for Roberts writing A&A as his first book along with VEI's poor decision on Lafuente on the art which cranked up the goofy levels another 70%.

'Rai the history of the Valiant Universe' sounds like a key book and writing wise I'd have like a bigger hitter such as Dysart or VDitti who are both great long term planners.

[Sunlight on Snow]

Dang, I'm neither a fan of RR's writing nor Portela's drawing.

I'm seriously worried about Rai and the history of the Valiant Universe as we know it!

Clayton Crain's cover is pretty cool though.

[Shadowman99]

Again would like to state that i have nothing against Rafer as a person,but his Valiant work has been pretty average,and especially after Fred Van Lente and Joshua Dysart..The new Harbinger has been average and i don't think bad guy or not none talks to themselves talking about their evil plan like solomon does..He feels like a lesser version of the bleeding monk..In fact this feels like an average indie book from image or dark horse which no one notices...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agreed. Those two are great, intelligent writers but I've yet to see Roberts deliver anything of that quality. I don't think his writing is bad necessarily, but it definitely pales in comparison.

[Shadowman99]

Archer can access any power he wants and Armstrong can get an arrow through the eye and recover like it was nothing! Where's the danger? Where's the peril for these characters? What's the next writer supposed to do with that?!? .

That's actually exactly the same problem I have with Valiant characters sometimes - I remember reading that 'arrow through the eye bit: no problem' part and having the exact same thought. Armstrong didn't even flinch. Hell, he may be Immortal but he's also apparently nerve-dead as well

Exact same gripe I have with Ninjak too: I remember feeling, back when I was reading Unity, that it was actually really cool having a combat-heavy character between Aric and Eternal Warrior that wasn't as impervious to damage as they are. There was a sense that this character could really get damaged if he put a foot wrong, which explains why he's always so keen not too. Except ironically when he got a spike through the foot and appeared to have recovered very rapidly.

Then Kindt nailed that coffin shut for my with the flashback sequence to Ninjak's back-break and over-winter meditation healing... So Ninjak has literally been healing 'by magic' ever since

Characters being vulnerable adds a real sense of risk and danger to these comics which makes them far more thrilling and exciting to me: but pragmatically (read: 'financially') speaking, these flagship characters need to still be up and walking in a few years time so that they can sell books, so if it takes 'magic', dead nerve endings or even nano-bots to do that then fair enough... But don't tell me the story's better off for that because 9/10 it's probably not.

[Dallow Spicer1]

Archer can access any power he wants and Armstrong can get an arrow through the eye and recover like it was nothing! Where's the danger? Where's the peril for these characters? What's the next writer supposed to do with that?!? .

That's actually exactly the same problem I have with Valiant characters sometimes - I remember reading that 'arrow through the eye bit: no problem' part and having the exact same thought. Armstrong didn't even flinch. Hell, he may be Immortal but he's also apparently nerve-dead as well

Exact same gripe I have with Ninjak too: I remember feeling, back when I was reading Unity, that it was actually really cool having a combat-heavy character between Aric and Eternal Warrior that wasn't as impervious to damage as they are. There was a sense that this character could really get damaged if he put a foot wrong, which explains why he's always so keen not too. Except ironically when he got a spike through the foot and appeared to have recovered very rapidly.

Then Kindt nailed that coffin shut for my with the flashback sequence to Ninjak's back-break and over-winter meditation healing... So Ninjak has literally been healing 'by magic' ever since

Characters being vulnerable adds a real sense of risk and danger to these comics which makes them far more thrilling and exciting to me: but pragmatically (read: 'financially') speaking, these flagship characters need to still be up and walking in a few years time so that they can sell books, so if it takes 'magic', dead nerve endings or even nano-bots to do that then fair enough... But don't tell me the story's better off for that because 9/10 it's probably not.

+1

Yeah, in Unity #0 it showed Gilad being blown up (I think) and on the last page it had him many months later with his legs only partly healed/re-grown, I thought that approach was ideal for the 'immortals'. Yes they can't be killed but there at least should be some impact to severe injury.

In the recent Bloodshot USA, Lemire writes Bloodshot having his head decapitated...and yes a few moments later he's all good again with head re-attached! Previously when severely injured Bloodshot required protein (e.g. a cow) to consume in order to regrow limbs, not anymore he just pops his head back and voila!

At the end of XO, Aric gets the knowledge of the universe from the Torment...alarm bells slightly rung when that happened as he's already got the most powerful weapon.

[Sunlight on Snow]

Archer can access any power he wants and Armstrong can get an arrow through the eye and recover like it was nothing! Where's the danger? Where's the peril for these characters? What's the next writer supposed to do with that?!? .

That's actually exactly the same problem I have with Valiant characters sometimes - I remember reading that 'arrow through the eye bit: no problem' part and having the exact same thought. Armstrong didn't even flinch. Hell, he may be Immortal but he's also apparently nerve-dead as well

Exact same gripe I have with Ninjak too: I remember feeling, back when I was reading Unity, that it was actually really cool having a combat-heavy character between Aric and Eternal Warrior that wasn't as impervious to damage as they are. There was a sense that this character could really get damaged if he put a foot wrong, which explains why he's always so keen not too. Except ironically when he got a spike through the foot and appeared to have recovered very rapidly.

Then Kindt nailed that coffin shut for my with the flashback sequence to Ninjak's back-break and over-winter meditation healing... So Ninjak has literally been healing 'by magic' ever since

Characters being vulnerable adds a real sense of risk and danger to these comics which makes them far more thrilling and exciting to me: but pragmatically (read: 'financially') speaking, these flagship characters need to still be up and walking in a few years time so that they can sell books, so if it takes 'magic', dead nerve endings or even nano-bots to do that then fair enough... But don't tell me the story's better off for that because 9/10 it's probably not.

+1

Yeah, in Unity #0 it showed Gilad being blown up (I think) and on the last page it had him many months later with his legs only partly healed/re-grown, I thought that approach was ideal for the 'immortals'. Yes they can't be killed but there at least should be some impact to severe injury.

In the recent Bloodshot USA, Lemire writes Bloodshot having his head decapitated...and yes a few moments later he's all good again with head re-attached! Previously when severely injured Bloodshot required protein (e.g. a cow) to consume in order to regrow limbs, not anymore he just pops his head back and voila!

At the end of XO, Aric gets the knowledge of the universe from the Torment...alarm bells slightly rung when that happened as he's already got the most powerful weapon.

Well, technically Bloodshot needs more protein to regrow the flesh and bones of missing limbs than to re-attach a head. The nanites certainly need some juice too but missing limps still require more protein intake in advance. Anyhow, I'm with you guys. Nobody should be nearly unbreakable and super-healing especially not the immortals as they do have all the time in the world to heal their wounds anyway.

[nonplayer]

This is getting good
A pole would be fun I do think it's important to let Valiant know your feelings whether they read it here or you email them.
I Used to spend 35.00 on comics a month NOT including the trades of series I like and variants. Right now the only ongoing I'm getting is the walking dead.
If Valiant is not putting out stuff I want. I don't buy.
I won't be Dinesh pay check to go on amazing trips with his gf/wife if he's selling stuff I don't want.
If the new valiant direction is working for him then that's great but I don't get suckered or can't afford to get suckered in to minis or one shots, countless new charater that just get abandoned for new crazy charaters. I love Valiant for its good stories, it's connectivity of the shared universe. And if I'm not getting that they don't get my money.
Deep down I'm still a loyalist just because Valiants slowing down as of late and their meterial isn't as good for "me" I won't pick up other titles from other publishers to fill the void.
I am hopeful that soon in the future I can start spending my full allotment of cash towards Valiant comics.

[Sunlight on Snow]

This is getting good
A pole would be fun I do think it's important to let Valiant know your feelings whether they read it here or you email them.
I Used to spend 35.00 on comics a month NOT including the trades of series I like and variants. Right now the only ongoing I'm getting is the walking dead.
If Valiant is not putting out stuff I want. I don't buy.
I won't be Dinesh pay check to go on amazing trips with his gf/wife if he's selling stuff I don't want.
If the new valiant direction is working for him then that's great but I don't get suckered or can't afford to get suckered in to minis or one shots, countless new charater that just get abandoned for new crazy charaters. I love Valiant for its good stories, it's connectivity of the shared universe. And if I'm not getting that they don't get my money.
Deep down I'm still a loyalist just because Valiants slowing down as of late and their meterial isn't as good for "me" I won't pick up other titles from other publishers to fill the void.
I am hopeful that soon in the future I can start spending my full allotment of cash towards Valiant comics.

Here you go again!

Didn't you just say...

You all will be happy to know I'm keeping my mouth shut on this one.

LOL.

...

EDIT: I'm really looking forward to all the upcoming stuff...even this one. It got RAI on it!

[ShadowTuga]

Only Losers quit!

[hawkeyeps]

Does anybody else thinks that Rafer Roberts is just average, not bad,just average... After Dysart they could have brought in someone good to write Harbinger...Like Jeff Lemire...if not great at least better than average... And they got him to write the throwback to the greatest single issue in Valiant history?? I am sorry but this feels disappointing.

I agree and would go one further and say his writing is sub par.

My enthusiasm for Valiant is way down from what it once was, I feel Roberts involvement has damaged the universe. None of the properties he has worked on are in a better place now than they were before he wrote them. He has raised the bar on nothing. A&A have been reduced to clown like goof balls and the Renegades are now a bunch of whiny 2 dimensional teen tropes. It's sad.

Whilst I agree with Hawk's comments (although I wouldn't agree that Raf's "damaged" the universe, I wouldn't go that far personally) I think it's a little foolish for anyone to write any issue off ahead of time without having read it, let alone the Rai#1 issue in question, no offence intended.

Sure, feel disappointed as a result of anticipating that the issue won't be that great, that's fair enough. But to have apparently made final judgement on it months ahead of it hitting the shelf? Doesn't make logical sense to me.

I have no preconceptions for this issue, so I'll wait 'til I've read it and then head over to the Published Issues board to have a proper say on it.

I didn't judge the issue itself, this is my opinion of the creator based on what I've read of his work.

I would be much more excited for this issue if it was Kindt and CAFU, that to me seems like a natural fit.

Here is my story with Roberts and how I came to have the opinion I do, I have never met him and he seems like a great guy from what others have said and this purely based on the work.

I was not the biggest fan of FVL's A&A mostly because I didn't like some of the more goofy stuff, when I heard Roberts was restarting A&A I was optimistic even though I didn't care for LaFuente's art. My hope was that we would get a more serious take on the characters but of course it was the exact opposite, instead of bringing them closer to the main universe and adding some gravitas they were instead taken into Quantum and Woody way out there goofball territory. By issue #8 I had to stop reading it as I found it to be annoying and tedious.

Harbinger and Imperium are my favorite Valiant books and responsible for much of my passion as a fan. When I heard Roberts was taking over I was dismayed to say the least and then we found out that Dysart was actually slated to do the book but his pitch was rejected in favor of Roberts. Now the bar was set incredibly high for Roberts and this story had to be fantastic, like among the greatest comics ever made such as Watchmen or Dark Knight. Harbinger and Imperium were on this level for me. Now that I have read the first four issues it certainly wasn't that, the dialogue was over wrought and expository and the characters felt extremely flat. For me it read like a fanzine, very amateurish with the characters taking a back seat to the plot which is an inversion to the way the book used to be.

And now we are getting an iconic book we have all long anticipated and once again they have given it to Roberts. Why? Based on what? His track record is not good and this is reflected in the sales numbers.

Now this may not be entirely on Roberts as I think a lot of this is coming from editorial, if he is given the orders to make A&A a goofy book that is what he will write. If he is told to dumb down Harbinger so it may appeal to a wider younger demographic that is what he will do. There has been considerable shake up in editorial since NYCC and I have to wonder if this is an unexpected pivot and part of the reason we are down to 6 books a month.

I also agree that it was unfair to Roberts to put him on such big books right off the bat, perhaps if he was allowed to develop his own voice on a lesser or new character we would be more receptive to him handling a bigger property down the line. With the deck stacked against him like this it was almost impossible to succeed. And yet here we are again he is given a book where fans expectations will be sky high, maybe he will rise to the occasion but he hasn't as of yet so what is to make me think this will be the one?

It just gets to be a bummer hoping something will be good and being disappointed again and again, this is what it was like when I was a Marvel fan and why I eventually quit.

[Phoenix8008]

None of the properties he has worked on are in a better place now than they were before he wrote them. He has raised the bar on nothing.

A&A have been reduced to clown like goof balls and the Renegades are now a bunch of whiny 2 dimensional teen tropes. It's sad.

That's kinda where I'm at, too. A&A went too wacky packs, still not sure how I feel about the Renegade.

+1. The new A&A wasn't so great, but I'm okay so far with the new Harby title. Not spectacular, but not disappointed yet by any means either.

[greg]

The new A&A had some bad (mackerel, disgruntled pursemaker, bath salt crazies) but it wasn't all bad.

We got Andromeda and an explanation of sorts for why people like Andromeda exist and one of the creators is back on Earth in Gubgub. We also got the concept, however goofy it was demonstrated, that Armstrong's immortality has been known and studied in an attempt to duplicate it, without success.

Not a string of winning books, but the comments that we got nothing out of the series are exaggeration in my opinion.

I'd have been happy to have Andromeda back without the explanation and creator sidekick.

[jmatt]

The new A&A had some bad (mackerel, disgruntled pursemaker, bath salt crazies) but it wasn't all bad.

It wasn't. I actually thought the Dumpbucket story was funny, the Mary Maria stuff was good and I even enjoyed some of the AA/Andy stuff, along with Bacchus.

I guess my ambivalence is caused by two different perspectives: How do I feel about the book for what it is -- and how do I feel about it as part of the Valiant universe.

For his AA run, "for what it is" = 3.25/5. "Part of the Valiant universe" = 2/5.

[Bkbboy]

Does anybody else thinks that Rafer Roberts is just average, not bad,just average... After Dysart they could have brought in someone good to write Harbinger...Like Jeff Lemire...if not great at least better than average... And they got him to write the throwback to the greatest single issue in Valiant history?? I am sorry but this feels disappointing.

I agree and would go one further and say his writing is sub par.

My enthusiasm for Valiant is way down from what it once was, I feel Roberts involvement has damaged the universe. None of the properties he has worked on are in a better place now than they were before he wrote them. He has raised the bar on nothing. A&A have been reduced to clown like goof balls and the Renegades are now a bunch of whiny 2 dimensional teen tropes. It's sad.

Whilst I agree with Hawk's comments (although I wouldn't agree that Raf's "damaged" the universe, I wouldn't go that far personally) I think it's a little foolish for anyone to write any issue off ahead of time without having read it, let alone the Rai#1 issue in question, no offence intended.

Sure, feel disappointed as a result of anticipating that the issue won't be that great, that's fair enough. But to have apparently made final judgement on it months ahead of it hitting the shelf? Doesn't make logical sense to me.

I have no preconceptions for this issue, so I'll wait 'til I've read it and then head over to the Published Issues board to have a proper say on it.

I didn't judge the issue itself, this is my opinion of the creator based on what I've read of his work.

I would be much more excited for this issue if it was Kindt and CAFU, that to me seems like a natural fit.

Here is my story with Roberts and how I came to have the opinion I do, I have never met him and he seems like a great guy from what others have said and this purely based on the work.

I was not the biggest fan of FVL's A&A mostly because I didn't like some of the more goofy stuff, when I heard Roberts was restarting A&A I was optimistic even though I didn't care for LaFuente's art. My hope was that we would get a more serious take on the characters but of course it was the exact opposite, instead of bringing them closer to the main universe and adding some gravitas they were instead taken into Quantum and Woody way out there goofball territory. By issue #8 I had to stop reading it as I found it to be annoying and tedious.

Harbinger and Imperium are my favorite Valiant books and responsible for much of my passion as a fan. When I heard Roberts was taking over I was dismayed to say the least and then we found out that Dysart was actually slated to do the book but his pitch was rejected in favor of Roberts. Now the bar was set incredibly high for Roberts and this story had to be fantastic, like among the greatest comics ever made such as Watchmen or Dark Knight. Harbinger and Imperium were on this level for me. Now that I have read the first four issues it certainly wasn't that, the dialogue was over wrought and expository and the characters felt extremely flat. For me it read like a fanzine, very amateurish with the characters taking a back seat to the plot which is an inversion to the way the book used to be.

And now we are getting an iconic book we have all long anticipated and once again they have given it to Roberts. Why? Based on what? His track record is not good and this is reflected in the sales numbers.

Now this may not be entirely on Roberts as I think a lot of this is coming from editorial, if he is given the orders to make A&A a goofy book that is what he will write. If he is told to dumb down Harbinger so it may appeal to a wider younger demographic that is what he will do. There has been considerable shake up in editorial since NYCC and I have to wonder if this is an unexpected pivot and part of the reason we are down to 6 books a month.

I also agree that it was unfair to Roberts to put him on such big books right off the bat, perhaps if he was allowed to develop his own voice on a lesser or new character we would be more receptive to him handling a bigger property down the line. With the deck stacked against him like this it was almost impossible to succeed. And yet here we are again he is given a book where fans expectations will be sky high, maybe he will rise to the occasion but he hasn't as of yet so what is to make me think this will be the one?

It just gets to be a bummer hoping something will be good and being disappointed again and again, this is what it was like when I was a Marvel fan and why I eventually quit.

I get what you're saying...I'm a huge fan of Dysart's Valiant stuff, too, and was devastated to hear his long term plan for harbinger/harada wouldn't see fruition. I was actually pretty pleasantly surprised by this first arc of renegades, and it does seem like Roberts has sone pretty cool story ideas building up to harbinger Wars 2...but it's hard not to think about what could have been.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Shadowman99]

Does anybody else thinks that Rafer Roberts is just average, not bad,just average... After Dysart they could have brought in someone good to write Harbinger...Like Jeff Lemire...if not great at least better than average... And they got him to write the throwback to the greatest single issue in Valiant history?? I am sorry but this feels disappointing.

I agree and would go one further and say his writing is sub par.

My enthusiasm for Valiant is way down from what it once was, I feel Roberts involvement has damaged the universe. None of the properties he has worked on are in a better place now than they were before he wrote them. He has raised the bar on nothing. A&A have been reduced to clown like goof balls and the Renegades are now a bunch of whiny 2 dimensional teen tropes. It's sad.

Whilst I agree with Hawk's comments (although I wouldn't agree that Raf's "damaged" the universe, I wouldn't go that far personally) I think it's a little foolish for anyone to write any issue off ahead of time without having read it, let alone the Rai#1 issue in question, no offence intended.

Sure, feel disappointed as a result of anticipating that the issue won't be that great, that's fair enough. But to have apparently made final judgement on it months ahead of it hitting the shelf? Doesn't make logical sense to me.

I have no preconceptions for this issue, so I'll wait 'til I've read it and then head over to the Published Issues board to have a proper say on it.

I didn't judge the issue itself, this is my opinion of the creator based on what I've read of his work.

When I made that comment I was referring to Manaf having appeared to have judged the comic before it came out, I didn't get that impression from you

[Keith]

I wasn't a fan of A&A, it just seemed to silly and disconnected from the rest of the VU. Neither complaint I had with FVLs run. Maybe the pitch was rock solid?

I am enjoying Harbinger Renegade, think it's off to a great start and really excited to see what comes with Massacre and Harbinger Wars 2.

No judgment yet on this upcoming Rai issue. Since it's obviously a tribute to Rai 0 then I am confident that Valiant will be all hands on deck when it comes to delivering.

[DirtbagSailor]

I really do not like the way Portela has drawn faces for Valiant (to include facial expressions). The jawbones are humongous and the character do not share the same facial traits/characteristics as they do with the majority of Valiant artists.

I think Ivar, Timewalker was perfect as a series; however, Clayton Henry and Pere Perez's artwork were the highlights (visually). Portela should work on Faith perhaps, or possibly new title where he can establish the character's "look" from the ground up.
Mportela is not a bad artist; he is quite talented. However, he employs a VERY STRONG European style which in itself would no be bad, however, randomly inserted into a series that already has a visual expectations is not the best idea.

We will soon see in any event. I'll read of course; most of us will. My hope is that Portela figures out what these recognizable characters "SHOULD" look like and not do what I suspect he is going to do...

[DirtbagSailor]

Example of Henry vs Portela on Ivar and Neela.

[jmatt]

Thanks for that side-by-side comparison. I would agree with the jaw/chin observation. The rest of it looks good to me.

[Sunlight on Snow]

My major concern is that a title like "The History of the Valiant Universe" (in a nutshell) should be done by a creative team that has already been around since 2012/13. This should have been drawn by one or two of the exclusive artists.

[myron]

Example of Henry vs Portela on Ivar and Neela.

IMO the inker/colors is also making a difference on these...for additional depth and "finesse" of figure...

[nonplayer]

Only Losers quit!

I'll never quit I don't read comics I read Valiant comics.