I might be out on Valiant

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lorddunlow
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Re: I might be out on Valiant

Post by lorddunlow »

Keith wrote:
jeremycoe wrote:DOOM
By jingo, it's been awhile since we've had a good old fashioned DOOM thread!

Oh no. Am I the new "Forbidden Planet gives VEI 9 months..." guy???

I'm sorry. I'm just bummed about the stagnancy of the line. I want a shared universe with tight continuity. That's not VEI so much.
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Re: I might be out on Valiant

Post by jeremycoe »

nonplayer wrote: If only Canadian Valiant fan club on Facebook didn't close down that group never gave up
Sounds like they did give up :?
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Re: I might be out on Valiant

Post by Captain Craig »

I firmly believe the industry's short sighted business model of selling multiple variants to a niche of collectors, forcing an LCS to buy bulk issues of a title that will end up in a $1 box, does not and has not bettered the industry.

The collective leaders of marketing decided over a decade ago that simply saying #1 was the best and ONLY thing that would get a bump in sells. There used to be in-house ads and other outlets that publishers would say, "New Creative team on XO starting at issue #51" Great jumping on Point, right there...it just comes down to marketing that like they do a #1. Want to do your variants, fine, do them as well for issue #51.

I'm not about to drop all Valiant and am less, much less, upset about Imperium ending.
I've always championed that Bloodshot being renumbered was pointless and now that his 'Reborn' arc is over the title of the book makes less sense. If the book were still just Bloodshot, as it should be, and on about issue #36 it would be one continual growth arc for the character.

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Re: I might be out on Valiant

Post by nonplayer »

Captain Craig wrote:I firmly believe the industry's short sighted business model of selling multiple variants to a niche of collectors, forcing an LCS to buy bulk issues of a title that will end up in a $1 box, does not and has not bettered the industry.

The collective leaders of marketing decided over a decade ago that simply saying #1 was the best and ONLY thing that would get a bump in sells. There used to be in-house ads and other outlets that publishers would say, "New Creative team on XO starting at issue #51" Great jumping on Point, right there...it just comes down to marketing that like they do a #1. Want to do your variants, fine, do them as well for issue #51.

I'm not about to drop all Valiant and am less, much less, upset about Imperium ending.
I've always championed that Bloodshot being renumbered was pointless and now that his 'Reborn' arc is over the title of the book makes less sense. If the book were still just Bloodshot, as it should be, and on about issue #36 it would be one continual growth arc for the character.
Are you kidding me bloodshot Reborn is ending too?
I Miss the good old days.

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Re: I might be out on Valiant

Post by jeremycoe »

nonplayer wrote:
Captain Craig wrote:I firmly believe the industry's short sighted business model of selling multiple variants to a niche of collectors, forcing an LCS to buy bulk issues of a title that will end up in a $1 box, does not and has not bettered the industry.

The collective leaders of marketing decided over a decade ago that simply saying #1 was the best and ONLY thing that would get a bump in sells. There used to be in-house ads and other outlets that publishers would say, "New Creative team on XO starting at issue #51" Great jumping on Point, right there...it just comes down to marketing that like they do a #1. Want to do your variants, fine, do them as well for issue #51.

I'm not about to drop all Valiant and am less, much less, upset about Imperium ending.
I've always championed that Bloodshot being renumbered was pointless and now that his 'Reborn' arc is over the title of the book makes less sense. If the book were still just Bloodshot, as it should be, and on about issue #36 it would be one continual growth arc for the character.
Are you kidding me bloodshot Reborn is ending too?
That's not what he said. At all.
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Re: I might be out on Valiant

Post by Nairbe »

:popcorn:

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Re: I might be out on Valiant

Post by BugsySig »

I just have to say I am not declaring DOOM, or "jumping ship." I am simply saying my buying pattern is likely to change due to the addition of multiple miniseries at any given point in time and the decompressed nature of many of the story arcs. These are general trends in the industry which have led to the greater popularity of trade waiting overall.

VALIANT (and a handful of Image titles) are the extent of what I currently, and will continue to, read. I believe in the company and the high quality of their output.

However, I have felt less enthused lately with the Universe, which is also likely the type of typical reaction which has led to the constant relaunch/renumber craze.
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Re: I might be out on Valiant

Post by ShadowTuga »

lorddunlow wrote:
Keith wrote:
jeremycoe wrote:DOOM
By jingo, it's been awhile since we've had a good old fashioned DOOM thread!

Oh no. Am I the new "Forbidden Planet gives VEI 9 months..." guy???

I'm sorry. I'm just bummed about the stagnancy of the line. I want a shared universe with tight continuity. That's not VEI so much.
Could be worse.
You could have charts.
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Re: I might be out on Valiant

Post by Elveen »

I respect everyone's opinion in this thread. I can also see the perspectives.
I will say that it makes me a bit sad, which is ..... Strange.

100% buy what you like! Yes, all the time.

I'm not sure I understand what I am interpreting as "I'm done with Valiant". Maybe it could or should be, "I'm going to not be buying as many books now", or "the way I buy the stories will be changing".

Again, always buy what you like. If you don't like (blank) don't buy it. I did not like Q&W, so I did not buy them. It was never, I'm done with Valiant, just done with Q&W. Easy.

I also stopped a long time ago trying to buy every cover and every variant. But, no biggie, I still would like them, just not at the prices I would have to pay when they 1st came out. So I put them on the list, and when (if) I ever find them for cheap, sweet, I'll be a buyer.

Lastly, I can for sure get the "we need some excitement, some good news to rile us up". I wish all of you could have seen the guys at Wondercon. I didn't get to go to the panel or really spend any time at the booth (I was working my booth). But I did get to spend time with everyone. They had a general "feel" of energy and excitement. I came away feeling Jazzed for what's happening right now and even more excited for what is coming.

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Re: I might be out on Valiant

Post by nonplayer »

What really gets me is the loose ends. Valiant has spent all this time building loose ends it's worse than a frayed rope. Id really like to know what happened to the baby, or the real back story of the vine. Or the torment, or what happened to his wife. Or the rest of the galactic races of aliens. Or the gin-gr's we still have to see arcs baby be born. So much left loose I am happy Valiant is rewarding us with xo 50 free art cards and assorted originals. Sounds like they wanna give back to the fans one thing I'd like to see that I've hurd rumors about is a foil or fancy cover for xo 50 and I have a feeling we will see something next.
Whether or not xo continues as aric of perhaps some one else in the armor is yet to be seen and if it does then I'll get it untill then I'm going to Wright Valiant and tell them how Un happy I am to hear xo is ending.
I Miss the good old days.

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Re: I might be out on Valiant

Post by Elveen »

Also.

I can remember many many people here, in this Valiant Fans message board proclaiming that Valiant would never make it and that they would fail and that they would go away and all that.

Well they are still here. Making comics. I remember when "we" we're wondering when they would grow and have other collectibles and toys and t shirts and other products. Well they have done that.

I feel they are in a "establishing" phase. There was a time when I thought that with in a few years they would be all big time and be challenging as a real 3rd major. That time has not come yet. The timetables have changed. Realistically , how could they even be in the same breath as DC and Marvel this fast. They can't. That was my foolishness of understanding the comic industry.

How many of you have ever worked a back issue booth at a major comic show??? Do you know what percentage of peeps that ask for ANY independent comic book compared to a DC or Marvel book? Honestly, I'd say it is like 10-15% maybe. And really it could be like 5%.

But I still believe they can, and possibly, they will have a chance to become a 3rd major.

I 100% believe in the guys they have heading the company. I also still really love the characters. They are what got me in the this lifestyle.

Only The Valiant!
Viva Valiant!
Make mine Valiant!

All that good stuff.

If some people here on the board change their buying of the books, cool. I totally get that. My buying has changed. But my support of Valiant has not changed. It never will.

I am a Valiant fan. It's part of me.
Change your current buying patterns, but don't "I'm done with Valiant".

Hold out for hope. The best is yet to come.

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Re: I might be out on Valiant

Post by raiden »

Also like to clarify that I'm not giving up on Valiant - I think the company is here to stay - but I'm not buying everything that comes out anymore and there seems to be less of a consistency to the characters as series are ending and starting again (I'll point to the new A&A series vs the previous run as an example again).

I think much of this is due to the end of XO, which has been the one constant since the relaunch. Once XO in particular ends, the foundation of the whole universe seems a bit less stable to me. When Aric does appear again (and I don't imagine it will be for very long if there's a gap at all), how different will the new book be from what's been established? May very well be a good change, but a lot of unknowns at the moment. Still waiting for a new Shadowman book to get excited about too. As I said, I'm interested to see what shakes out post 4001 AD.

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Re: I might be out on Valiant

Post by nonplayer »

Elveen wrote:I respect everyone's opinion in this thread. I can also see the perspectives.
I will say that it makes me a bit sad, which is ..... Strange.

100% buy what you like! Yes, all the time.

I'm not sure I understand what I am interpreting as "I'm done with Valiant". Maybe it could or should be, "I'm going to not be buying as many books now", or "the way I buy the stories will be changing".

Again, always buy what you like. If you don't like (blank) don't buy it. I did not like Q&W, so I did not buy them. It was never, I'm done with Valiant, just done with Q&W. Easy.

I also stopped a long time ago trying to buy every cover and every variant. But, no biggie, I still would like them, just not at the prices I would have to pay when they 1st came out. So I put them on the list, and when (if) I ever find them for cheap, sweet, I'll be a buyer.

Lastly, I can for sure get the "we need some excitement, some good news to rile us up". I wish all of you could have seen the guys at Wondercon. I didn't get to go to the panel or really spend any time at the booth (I was working my booth). But I did get to spend time with everyone. They had a general "feel" of energy and excitement. I came away feeling Jazzed for what's happening right now and even more excited for what is coming.
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Re: I might be out on Valiant

Post by Keith »

Well said, Elveen.
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Re: I might be out on Valiant

Post by depluto »

It's not like I can drop Valiant for Ultraverse.

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Re: I might be out on Valiant

Post by Dr Noel »

I didn't read every single post in this thread, but the overall gist I got was not 'I'm done with Valiant.' The majority of people posting, including myself, think Valiant has lost sight of what made the company great in the first place.

They have a great established, enthusiastic fan base (us). They should ensure that our expectations are met (mainly a tight continuity). That will guarantee we continue promoting them. When someone asks me about my t-shirt I give VEI all kinds of props because I believe in the company. For that same reason, if I think they're heading in the wrong direction I'm going to speak up. Because I want them to succeed.

I don't have plans to jump ship. But I've stopped buying most issues and now just buy trades. That alone reduces VEI's profits (especially if a lot of people do the same). But the way they are running things doesn't make me what to buy every single variant anymore.

I guess the whole point in my post and this thread is that a portion of this community thinks VEI needs a fix. We all love these characters and really want to see them succeed. But we want stories and continuity like preunity, unity, and immediate post unity.

And we want Magnus...at least I do :P

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Re: I might be out on Valiant

Post by nycjadie »

Has anyone read V1 X-O or Bloodshot in the 40-50 range. Yikes. Compare that to the books today in the same range (renumbered or not). Awesome.

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Re: I might be out on Valiant

Post by nycjadie »

Apples to apples, forgot to add.

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Re: I might be out on Valiant

Post by Keith »

nycjadie wrote:Has anyone read V1 X-O or Bloodshot in the 40-50 range. Yikes. Compare that to the books today in the same range (renumbered or not). Awesome.
Were we in Birthquake land at that point? I cant recall...
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Re: I might be out on Valiant

Post by Hotwire »

Keith wrote:
nycjadie wrote:Has anyone read V1 X-O or Bloodshot in the 40-50 range. Yikes. Compare that to the books today in the same range (renumbered or not). Awesome.
Were we in Birthquake land at that point? I cant recall...
Wait until the 50s ... out of *SQUEE* a diamond can rise!

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Re: I might be out on Valiant

Post by brucehartshorn »

It is incumbent upon us to realize that what all of us loved at the re-invention of the company in 2012 is still there: Dinesh and his team, a talented staff, a long term vision, and a single minded dedication to quality, all the while being the most fan friendly company in the industry today. With all of that in place, it is ENTIRELY within their capacity to be all that they were and even more.

Have they strayed a little? No doubt. I'm not sure about anyone else, but I refer to those as "growing pains". While we all have been invested in their success for what seems a long time, we need to reflect that in actuality they are not even 4 years old and during that time they have come from the oblivion of nothingness to a success that could not have been envisioned in 2012. This is nothing short of remarkable.

We're all aware of the missteps (at least as we see them) and there is little point in rehashing these. Instead, why not focus on the extremely positive things they have brought back to us, the diehard fans. Are there too many variants? It sure does seem like it and I'm sure that as the lack of participation in sales of these continues, that message will be heard and a change will come about. Will we all miss XO? Most will indeed. But does VEI have a whole stable of exciting things coming? Of course they do.

Change is never comfortable and often not welcome, whether personally or professionally. By our very nature, we resist it. However, we should remember that change can also herald good things as well. In this case, I choose to look forward to it and genuinely make the offer to VEI to help them in any small way I can to help them be what all of us hope and wish for them because all of our interests are aligned. We ALL want Dinesh and crew to succeed.

Reduce buying what I don't like? It's a simple and solid idea. But abandon what I love when it gets a little tough? No way. If someone truly cares as we say we do, the best thing we can do is sincerely offer suggestions and help where and how we can. That's where I stand and I choose to think that upon reflection most everyone will admit that they also want to help. Leaving solves nothing, but staying and all helping work toward a goal can be an incredible force for positive good. Just think about it :hm:
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Re: I might be out on Valiant

Post by Tim »

nonplayer wrote:...if you bailers do bail the loss of a wicked company will be on your shoulders.
:roll:

No, it will be on the shoulders of a for-profit, professional comic book company that failed to put out quality product.

Thinking like that is why I get annoyed with things like the Amazon review drives, buying books to put in other subscribers' boxes and all the fan activism that is largely unique to this community. Valiant's success is NOT OUR RESPONSIBILITY. I like Tabasco sauce, but I don't feel the need to promote them at my expense. Companies have budgets for and people working to do that sort of thing.

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Re: I might be out on Valiant

Post by lorddunlow »

Elveen wrote:Also.

I can remember many many people here, in this Valiant Fans message board proclaiming that Valiant would never make it and that they would fail and that they would go away and all that.

Well they are still here. Making comics. I remember when "we" we're wondering when they would grow and have other collectibles and toys and t shirts and other products. Well they have done that.

I feel they are in a "establishing" phase. There was a time when I thought that with in a few years they would be all big time and be challenging as a real 3rd major. That time has not come yet. The timetables have changed. Realistically , how could they even be in the same breath as DC and Marvel this fast. They can't. That was my foolishness of understanding the comic industry.

How many of you have ever worked a back issue booth at a major comic show??? Do you know what percentage of peeps that ask for ANY independent comic book compared to a DC or Marvel book? Honestly, I'd say it is like 10-15% maybe. And really it could be like 5%.

But I still believe they can, and possibly, they will have a chance to become a 3rd major.

I 100% believe in the guys they have heading the company. I also still really love the characters. They are what got me in the this lifestyle.

Only The Valiant!
Viva Valiant!
Make mine Valiant!

All that good stuff.

If some people here on the board change their buying of the books, cool. I totally get that. My buying has changed. But my support of Valiant has not changed. It never will.

I am a Valiant fan. It's part of me.
Change your current buying patterns, but don't "I'm done with Valiant".

Hold out for hope. The best is yet to come.
Let me clarify my comments that started this thread. By "I might be out on Valiant" I meant that I currently have purchased at full price on release day through my LCS every single issue that VEI has produced. (Except for Legend of the Geomancer which I obtained through the gracious offer Ed made for us here.) I never got into variants, but they never really bothered me either.

I'm sort of using this thread as a talk-to-myself-about-an-issue-with-others-listening-in-and-giving-their-opinions sort of thing. I still want VEI to succeed. Dinesh and crew are great and it is clearly a labor of love. But the current comics market doesn't seem to support what I want from VEI. I don't blame them for stopping/renumbering/minis-instead-of-ongoings/etc. It's just what they have to do to stay afloat. They have people who work for them and depend on them running a business. But they seem to be moving toward the average of the industry instead of standing apart. That's what's bugging me.

When I say "out on Valiant" I mean I'm not feeling like I'm getting a return on my investment (and by that I mean actual entertainment value for my dollar, not resale value in the back issue market). The first 2 years of VEI was amazing. Year 3 was pretty damn good too. But lately (really, Harbinger and A&A came to a close and everything was sort of being soft rebooted) I've just not loved what I've read. I actually enjoy Rai and Ninjak so far - I like Kindt's work.

I just remember when we were asking VEI when we would see more overlap and nods to this being a shared universe, and we were told that it was coming. Well, other than that giant spread in The Valiant I haven't felt like these books even remotely exist in the same world except where it's forced.

This is obviously just my opinion and I'm sure others disagree. I'm also not giving up on VEI. I just think I'll be in the category that doesn't get everything and I'll probably just buy when the digital stuff goes on major sales. That's not really supporting VEI, in my opinion, but it's where I'm at right now.

The reality of VEI has not lived up to my expectations. That could change at any time, but for now, I think I might be "out" of the Valiant fanatic club. I still love this place, but a lot of the reason I've been less visible around here is I don't read the books anymore. I tried to catch up on my last vacation, but I just couldn't get in the mood. I read old issues of Witchblade instead.

I hope VEI does some great stuff that I'm really into and can get behind, but until then, I'm gonna take a different approach. I don't like it (and I'm sure my LCS won't like it as I'm 75% VEI on my pull list), but it is what it is.
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Re: I might be out on Valiant

Post by Elveen »

LordD, I can respect your well thought out and written post. I might disagree with some perspectives, but that is ok.

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Re: I might be out on Valiant

Post by Elveen »

Tim wrote:
nonplayer wrote:...if you bailers do bail the loss of a wicked company will be on your shoulders.
:roll:

No, it will be on the shoulders of a for-profit, professional comic book company that failed to put out quality product.

Thinking like that is why I get annoyed with things like the Amazon review drives, buying books to put in other subscribers' boxes and all the fan activism that is largely unique to this community. Valiant's success is NOT OUR RESPONSIBILITY. I like Tabasco sauce, but I don't feel the need to promote them at my expense. Companies have budgets for and people working to do that sort of thing.

Tim, I agree with your first point.

And can see your perspective of the second point. But while you do not feel the need to promote Valiant many many do. I don't see it as my "responsibility" but (and not to be TO over dramatic) it is my privilege. I also, like Tabasco sauce, but not like I like Valiant. I can understand your "annoyance" with the Amazon review drives and all that, but some people feel the opposite. It's just perspective.

Not that it matters what I think but, I think you should do what you want to do.... and those of us that do feel like we are a PART of the company and the movement, we should do what we want.

Bottom line. The success of Valiant will be in the lap of Valiant. But a BIG part of what they do IS "us". I'm glad I AM a part of what they do.


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