Bloodshot and H.A.R.D. Corps #17 Discussion

[Dallow Spicer1]

This was not a good issue IMO! Too many HARD Corps and Psiots, too many different powers from unfamiliar characters, it was hard work to try and keep up with who was who! Didn't like Lysander as a character, seemed poorly constructed, all those arms and knifes, really?? Also, the issue with the nanites was wrapped up too quick and easily (even if the guy in the lab still has some in him!).

I do like the back story of the HARD Corps characters but they're not around long enough to get attached to them.

The art....This is a major downside to me as Luppacino is not suited to this book. I was glad when the art changed towards the end of the book as at least Palmer looked like a 40+ year old rather than a 23 yr old with grey hair.

And there was yet another editing error, pg 8, the gun in Palmer's hand switches for left to right and his gloves disappear! How do these errors keep happening???

The only reason I'm buying the next issue is for Bart Sears on art duties, after itll probably be the second VEI book I'll drop, which is a shame as I enjoyed the first 6 issues or so.

2/5 - hopefully it'll improve next issue.

[bygranddesign]

I think you should definitely pick up the #0 issue as well before making a decision.

#0 issues are always good ... and it looks like HARD CORP #0 will be no exception. I'm really digging the art in the preview which has this real distinct 70's vibe to it and the very cool origin backstory.

I think for future arc's .. Criscross (who will be doing a story section in #0 as well), Lewis Larosa and Cafu would be good choices for a BS&HC arc.

[hawkeyeps]

This was not a good issue IMO! Too many HARD Corps and Psiots, too many different powers from unfamiliar characters, it was hard work to try and keep up with who was who! Didn't like Lysander as a character, seemed poorly constructed, all those arms and knifes, really?? Also, the issue with the nanites was wrapped up too quick and easily (even if the guy in the lab still has some in him!).

I do like the back story of the HARD Corps characters but they're not around long enough to get attached to them.

The art....This is a major downside to me as Luppacino is not suited to this book. I was glad when the art changed towards the end of the book as at least Palmer looked like a 40+ year old rather than a 23 yr old with grey hair.

And there was yet another editing error, pg 8, the gun in Palmer's hand switches for left to right and his gloves disappear! How do these errors keep happening???

The only reason I'm buying the next issue is for Bart Sears on art duties, after itll probably be the second VEI book I'll drop, which is a shame as I enjoyed the first 6 issues or so.

2/5 - hopefully it'll improve next issue.

I do agree that Lupachino may not be the best fit for the book, maybe LaRosa would better a little more gritty.

Other than that I love the book, It's been my favourite every month since #14, I think my enjoyment of the book now has doubled since the change. I love the world Dysart is building and Gage was excellent on Avengers Academy, it was actually the consistently best Avenger book every month so of course Marvel killed it. That was one of many last straws for me and Marvel.

I've only read the issues monthly I have yet to go back and read it as an arc but I thought it was amazing, so much going on and tons of action.

This book is now raised to the class of Harbinger and XO as an upper echelon book IMO.

I'm looking forward to some old school Sears for the next arc (please don't wish Ming Doyle on this book )

Not getting on your case DS1, just representin' the Corps

[Dallow Spicer1]

This was not a good issue IMO! Too many HARD Corps and Psiots, too many different powers from unfamiliar characters, it was hard work to try and keep up with who was who! Didn't like Lysander as a character, seemed poorly constructed, all those arms and knifes, really?? Also, the issue with the nanites was wrapped up too quick and easily (even if the guy in the lab still has some in him!).

I do like the back story of the HARD Corps characters but they're not around long enough to get attached to them.

The art....This is a major downside to me as Luppacino is not suited to this book. I was glad when the art changed towards the end of the book as at least Palmer looked like a 40+ year old rather than a 23 yr old with grey hair.

And there was yet another editing error, pg 8, the gun in Palmer's hand switches for left to right and his gloves disappear! How do these errors keep happening???

The only reason I'm buying the next issue is for Bart Sears on art duties, after itll probably be the second VEI book I'll drop, which is a shame as I enjoyed the first 6 issues or so.

2/5 - hopefully it'll improve next issue.

I do agree that Lupachino may not be the best fit for the book, maybe LaRosa would better a little more gritty.

Other than that I love the book, It's been my favourite every month since #14, I think my enjoyment of the book now has doubled since the change. I love the world Dysart is building and Gage was excellent on Avengers Academy, it was actually the consistently best Avenger book every month so of course Marvel killed it. That was one of many last straws for me and Marvel.

I've only read the issues monthly I have yet to go back and read it as an arc but I thought it was amazing, so much going on and tons of action.

This book is now raised to the class of Harbinger and XO as an upper echelon book IMO.

I'm looking forward to some old school Sears for the next arc (please don't wish Ming Doyle on this book )

Not getting on your case DS1, just representin' the Corps

It's cool to disagree hawkeye! I want this to be a good book so I'll be keeping my fingers crossed. Why do you think this book in particular has so many editing errors with the art?

[hawkeyeps]

This was not a good issue IMO! Too many HARD Corps and Psiots, too many different powers from unfamiliar characters, it was hard work to try and keep up with who was who! Didn't like Lysander as a character, seemed poorly constructed, all those arms and knifes, really?? Also, the issue with the nanites was wrapped up too quick and easily (even if the guy in the lab still has some in him!).

I do like the back story of the HARD Corps characters but they're not around long enough to get attached to them.

The art....This is a major downside to me as Luppacino is not suited to this book. I was glad when the art changed towards the end of the book as at least Palmer looked like a 40+ year old rather than a 23 yr old with grey hair.

And there was yet another editing error, pg 8, the gun in Palmer's hand switches for left to right and his gloves disappear! How do these errors keep happening???

The only reason I'm buying the next issue is for Bart Sears on art duties, after itll probably be the second VEI book I'll drop, which is a shame as I enjoyed the first 6 issues or so.

2/5 - hopefully it'll improve next issue.

I do agree that Lupachino may not be the best fit for the book, maybe LaRosa would better a little more gritty.

Other than that I love the book, It's been my favourite every month since #14, I think my enjoyment of the book now has doubled since the change. I love the world Dysart is building and Gage was excellent on Avengers Academy, it was actually the consistently best Avenger book every month so of course Marvel killed it. That was one of many last straws for me and Marvel.

I've only read the issues monthly I have yet to go back and read it as an arc but I thought it was amazing, so much going on and tons of action.

This book is now raised to the class of Harbinger and XO as an upper echelon book IMO.

I'm looking forward to some old school Sears for the next arc (please don't wish Ming Doyle on this book )

Not getting on your case DS1, just representin' the Corps

It's cool to disagree hawkeye! I want this to be a good book so I'll be keeping my fingers crossed. Why do you think this book in particular has so many editing errors with the art?

I blame the Editors!

That and the relentless crunch of getting a book out every month no matter what, even the big 2 can't seem to get that done. I think it's a price to pay for the organic growth of the books and the ability to react quickly to changes while still maintaining a schedule. Still it's not an excuse and they should always strive to get better, it does drag down the book.

[lorddunlow]

This was not a good issue IMO! Too many HARD Corps and Psiots, too many different powers from unfamiliar characters, it was hard work to try and keep up with who was who! Didn't like Lysander as a character, seemed poorly constructed, all those arms and knifes, really?? Also, the issue with the nanites was wrapped up too quick and easily (even if the guy in the lab still has some in him!).

I do like the back story of the HARD Corps characters but they're not around long enough to get attached to them.

The art....This is a major downside to me as Luppacino is not suited to this book. I was glad when the art changed towards the end of the book as at least Palmer looked like a 40+ year old rather than a 23 yr old with grey hair.

And there was yet another editing error, pg 8, the gun in Palmer's hand switches for left to right and his gloves disappear! How do these errors keep happening???

The only reason I'm buying the next issue is for Bart Sears on art duties, after itll probably be the second VEI book I'll drop, which is a shame as I enjoyed the first 6 issues or so.

2/5 - hopefully it'll improve next issue.

I do agree that Lupachino may not be the best fit for the book, maybe LaRosa would better a little more gritty.

Other than that I love the book, It's been my favourite every month since #14, I think my enjoyment of the book now has doubled since the change. I love the world Dysart is building and Gage was excellent on Avengers Academy, it was actually the consistently best Avenger book every month so of course Marvel killed it. That was one of many last straws for me and Marvel.

I've only read the issues monthly I have yet to go back and read it as an arc but I thought it was amazing, so much going on and tons of action.

This book is now raised to the class of Harbinger and XO as an upper echelon book IMO.

I'm looking forward to some old school Sears for the next arc (please don't wish Ming Doyle on this book )

Not getting on your case DS1, just representin' the Corps

you stinking Canadian!

[jmatt]

Didn't like Lysander as a character, seemed poorly constructed, all those arms and knifes, really??

The nanites were injected into one of Harada's medbots (seen early in Harbinger) that's why it has cutting devices, etc.

And there was yet another editing error, pg 8, the gun in Palmer's hand switches for left to right and his gloves disappear! How do these errors keep happening???

From a purists perspective, I understand. But I didn't even notice... is it really a big deal?

[Dallow Spicer1]

Didn't like Lysander as a character, seemed poorly constructed, all those arms and knifes, really??

The nanites were injected into one of Harada's medbots (seen early in Harbinger) that's why it has cutting devices, etc.

And there was yet another editing error, pg 8, the gun in Palmer's hand switches for left to right and his gloves disappear! How do these errors keep happening???

From a purists perspective, I understand. But I didn't even notice... is it really a big deal?

Well, as comics are a visual medium I'd say it's fairly important. In almost the same way as a writer needs to ensure the storyline makes logical sense.

As a $3.99 book I'd also say it is a basic minimum requirement?

[Shadowman99]

Didn't like Lysander as a character, seemed poorly constructed, all those arms and knifes, really??

The nanites were injected into one of Harada's medbots (seen early in Harbinger) that's why it has cutting devices, etc.

And there was yet another editing error, pg 8, the gun in Palmer's hand switches for left to right and his gloves disappear! How do these errors keep happening???

From a purists perspective, I understand. But I didn't even notice... is it really a big deal?

Well, as comics are a visual medium I'd say it's fairly important. In almost the same way as a writer needs to ensure the storyline makes logical sense.

As a $3.99 book I'd also say it is a basic minimum requirement?

Nah, I think you're being too harsh.

Like Jmatt I didn't even notice it. I did however trip up a little with Palmer's casualty stickers-locker thing, but y'know what? I actually just don't really care. I knew what he was doing, so that fact that the sticker may or may not have been on the correct side of the locker (according to where it was drawn in the previous issue) really, really doesn't matter.

I understand your point about a visual medium having to make sense in what it's portraying, but as long as you basically know what's going on, do you really care if a character is wearing gloves in one frame and not in the next? Does it really make a difference?

Look at the strong majority of films in enough depth and you'll find bizarre visual errors: But how often do they get noticed on the first watch? Here's a link to a youtube video of some mistakes in the original matrix film. Give it a look, it's actually quite funny http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJ0v5H3Uctw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think it just has to be accepted that due to one reason or another, certain mistakes simply will get made, and they will pass editorial undetected, so I think that expecting flawless comics month in, month out as "a basic minimum requirement" just isn't realistic.

A saying a friend of mine often states is: "If you don't laugh about it, you'll only cry". I think it's better to laugh at this kind of thing than get your pants in a knot




Anyway, regarding my thoughts on the issue, I thought it was an enjoyable issue.

As a lot of people have been saying already, this comic is starting to feel to me considerably less like "Bloodshot and HARD corps" and more like "HARD Corps with a dash of Bloodshot". In retrospect this perhaps should have been obvious since it was first announced. Of course VEI were going to use page space in the new 'Bloodshot: and HARD Corps' comic to establish the new IP of HARD Corps, although I happily admit that I thought it was going to be done to a considerably lesser extent than it actually has. However, if a job needs doing then it may as well be done properly, so I think that although Bloodshot is currently taking a back seat in his own comic, in the interests of introducing the HARD Corps to the universe, this is perhaps the best way that it could have been done short of launching an independent HARD Corps comic from the start.

I think it's going to be interesting to see what happens to the Bloodshot: and HARD Corps comic in the near future. I can understand Bloodshot getting neglected under current circumstance in light of establishing the HARD Corps in the universe, but inevitably this can't continue forever: At some point HARD Corps are going to need to do what they need to do, and Bloodshot is going to need to do what he needs to do, and it's likely that they're not going to be holding hands all the way. I'm inclined to predict that given another one or two arcs in Bloodshot, the character sets will splinter and we'll have separate Bloodshot and HARD Corps comics on the shelves.

Which moves on nicely to Bloodshot's dialogue in this particular issue; saying that he currently has no intentions to leave PRS. Very interesting indeed due to having been given no reason at all for this decision so far as readers, especially as I now feel I understand the character well enough to predict with confidence that he doesn't intend to serve PRS any longer than he feels he has to. Quite interested to see if anything regarding Bloodshot's past gets revealed in the next issue from him being given his alleged personal file. Also intrigued to see if Bloodshot needs to continue taking his recuperative nutrient baths now that he's reabsorbed (at least the majority of) his nanites.

Kozol showed how much of an *SQUEE* he really is during this issue. Makes him very easy to despise as a character, which adds a nice flavour to the mix.

Happy to see the HARD Corps cast getting a bit of development in this issue too. Shame to see Superstar go so soon as I thought he'd probably be around a bit longer than this due to being one of the stronger members of the group, but as Dysart (and Kozol) stated, the HARD Corps cast really do seem to be truly expendable. Was a little surprised to see him go though, as I was suckerpunched a little by the backstory, which added some weight to the character and suggested to me investment in it. He was then of course obliterated a few pages later, which seemed a bit of a shame to me really, developing the character and then killing it. I'm enjoying Disciple and Granite's page time, but I still couldn't care less for the new additions to the team; the terminal girl, the drunk and the *SQUEE*. I thought they'd been added to the comic as fodder basically, but they all actually managed to survive for an issue amazingly.
I really don't care for them or enjoy their page time all that much.
On another amusing note, my brother flicked through this comic yesterday without reading it, and without even noting the plot to any degree, he took one look at the HARD Corps uniform and likened it to the 'Red Shirts' uniform from Star Trek. Having never made this connection, I kinda laughed and told him that he wasn't really too far from the truth

Wasn't that impressed by Bloodshot's reabsorption of the nanites though. All seemed a bit easy to me. Someone pointed out that the scientist that was rescued by Bloodshot may still have nanites within him, and seeing the final panel featuring the character I think it could be highly possible. I think there may be a bit of a clue in the regular comic cover, with all the 'normal people' Bloodshot-ified on it. Perhaps that was a bit of a clue to suggest that Bloodshot wasn't necessarily going to always be the only person with nanites inside him, so this scientist may be the first human in the comic with nanites other than Bloodshot. Hated the 'Lysander' character last issue though, in his robot-form, so I'm glad to see that gone, even if the character still exists somewhat in this scientist character.

It's been stated that Harada seemed a bit one-dimensional in this issue, and I agree, but I also think it's quite understandable. His long-term enemies (PRS) have raided his facility and tried to steal from him, AGAIN. I can't really blame the guy for being more than a bit *SQUEE* off. And not curing Palmer of cancer when given the option... Well, the enemy losing one of their assets advantages him, so why would he choose to alter that? Quite understandable really.

In the end, I'd like to see Bloodshot and HARD Corps split into individual comics before too long, as whilst I can see that there's a lot of potential for an integrated title, I can't shake the feeling that having Bloodshot and HARD Corps in a single comic stifles them both a little, and doesn't give either of them a chance to move and flex their muscles properly, so to speak.

Yeah. I don't have a lot planned for today

[lorddunlow]

Didn't like Lysander as a character, seemed poorly constructed, all those arms and knifes, really??

The nanites were injected into one of Harada's medbots (seen early in Harbinger) that's why it has cutting devices, etc.

And there was yet another editing error, pg 8, the gun in Palmer's hand switches for left to right and his gloves disappear! How do these errors keep happening???

From a purists perspective, I understand. But I didn't even notice... is it really a big deal?

Well, as comics are a visual medium I'd say it's fairly important. In almost the same way as a writer needs to ensure the storyline makes logical sense.

As a $3.99 book I'd also say it is a basic minimum requirement?

I'll chime in and agree with you here, even though I never notice these things. I also very rarely notice typos, etc. My brain is very good at error correcting without me noticing - it craves things making sense, so it just makes me see what should be there. However, some people are the opposite, and their brains raise the alarm when anything is out of place. An editor should always be one of those people. The visual flubs that Shadowman99 mentioned shouldn't happen either. The sheer number of people who oversee the editing and final product should be able to eliminate any of these. These things drive my wife crazy. I never notice, but it never fails that when a bad edit occurs, she will notice immediately. She makes me rewind to show me, and once she points it out, I'm always amazed someone didn't notice (even though I didn't). As Dallow Spicer1 says, it should be a minimum requirement - if a casual reader can pick it up on an initial read, than someone whose job is to pick these things out looks at it at different stages throughout the month and never notices (not to mention, the inker, colorist, lettered, etc. Who also continue the error) it's makes one feel the product is not given the greatest care by its creators (including editors).

Just sayin'

[Dallow Spicer1]

Didn't like Lysander as a character, seemed poorly constructed, all those arms and knifes, really??

The nanites were injected into one of Harada's medbots (seen early in Harbinger) that's why it has cutting devices, etc.

And there was yet another editing error, pg 8, the gun in Palmer's hand switches for left to right and his gloves disappear! How do these errors keep happening???

From a purists perspective, I understand. But I didn't even notice... is it really a big deal?

Well, as comics are a visual medium I'd say it's fairly important. In almost the same way as a writer needs to ensure the storyline makes logical sense.

As a $3.99 book I'd also say it is a basic minimum requirement?

I'll chime in and agree with you here, even though I never notice these things. I also very rarely notice typos, etc. My brain is very good at error correcting without me noticing - it craves things making sense, so it just makes me see what should be there. However, some people are the opposite, and their brains raise the alarm when anything is out of place. An editor should always be one of those people. The visual flubs that Shadowman99 mentioned shouldn't happen either. The sheer number of people who oversee the editing and final product should be able to eliminate any of these. These things drive my wife crazy. I never notice, but it never fails that when a bad edit occurs, she will notice immediately. She makes me rewind to show me, and once she points it out, I'm always amazed someone didn't notice (even though I didn't).

Yeah, I'm definitely in that category with your wife (and my 8yr old daughter), typos, continuity errors etc bug me big time! The 'gloves' thing from this issue wasn't too bad, but it's like the 3rd or 4th similar type editing error in the past 8 issues? The worst one was when his severed arm swapped places!

All that said, my biggest issue with the comic is the art, I'm hoping the nostalgia buzz I get from the Bart Sears issue helps me get back on board with this series.

[ThatDarnCabbage]

It's been stated that Harada seemed a bit one-dimensional in this issue, and I agree, but I also think it's quite understandable. His long-term enemies (PRS) have raided his facility and tried to steal from him, AGAIN. I can't really blame the guy for being more than a bit *SQUEE* off. And not curing Palmer of cancer when given the option... Well, the enemy losing one of their assets advantages him, so why would he choose to alter that? Quite understandable really.[/color]

I'm pretty sure Harada meant that Palmer is PRS's cancer. I think he realizes that Palmer doesn't actually like working for PRS and sees him as a potential asset in destroying PRS in the long run. That's why he told him to metastasize, to stay with PRS long enough for him to finally snap and turn on them, which is likely for both Palmer and Bloodshot. I loved that panel from Harada. Really cool foreshadowing, I thought.

[Shadowman99]

It's been stated that Harada seemed a bit one-dimensional in this issue, and I agree, but I also think it's quite understandable. His long-term enemies (PRS) have raided his facility and tried to steal from him, AGAIN. I can't really blame the guy for being more than a bit *SQUEE* off. And not curing Palmer of cancer when given the option... Well, the enemy losing one of their assets advantages him, so why would he choose to alter that? Quite understandable really.

I'm pretty sure Harada meant that Palmer is PRS's cancer. I think he realizes that Palmer doesn't actually like working for PRS and sees him as a potential asset in destroying PRS in the long run. That's why he told him to metastasize, to stay with PRS long enough for him to finally snap and turn on them, which is likely for both Palmer and Bloodshot. I loved that panel from Harada. Really cool foreshadowing, I thought.

Ah, there could be some double meaning going on here then. The first thing I thought was that we know the PRS implants eventually harm their users, so it was possible that Palmer's wetware has caused him to develop cancer, whether or not he knows that at current time. It made sense to me in the way I previously stated, in that Harada may have discovered this with his [seemingly all-singing, all-dancing] psiot powers and decided not to kill Palmer as a result of their fight, and to let him die of his cancer instead. The literal meaning of 'metastasis' is where a tumour develops into subsequent tumours y'see.

[Baramos]

One thing though...am I crazy or did the stickers on Gunslinger's locker move from the outside of the door to the inside?
.

I thought it was odd too, upon closer inspection he already had the door open in that panel. The stickers for dead members are on the inside. When he closes it we see one sticker, his, on the outside of the door.

Some of the other action was a little confusing in this issue, too, but not too bad. It wasn't as bad as one of the past couple of issues, forget exactly which one...but IT was hard to follow.

[mateo107]

so I got the final issue of the Acclaim Quantum & Woody (#21, not #32. it's complicated) during the 99-cent Valiant sale and discovered that they had a villain named Lysander back in the day, wonder if this is just a coincidence or if it could end up being the same villain?

[BugsySig]

so I got the final issue of the Acclaim Quantum & Woody (#21, not #32. it's complicated) during the 99-cent Valiant sale and discovered that they had a villain named Lysander back in the day, wonder if this is just a coincidence or if it could end up being the same villain?

Probably just taking advantage of an existing IP from the VALIANT library. Or just a coincidence.

[leonmallett]

so I got the final issue of the Acclaim Quantum & Woody (#21, not #32. it's complicated) during the 99-cent Valiant sale and discovered that they had a villain named Lysander back in the day, wonder if this is just a coincidence or if it could end up being the same villain?

Probably just taking advantage of an existing IP from the VALIANT library. Or just a coincidence.

All bets covered!