Quantum & Woody #5 discussion

[bygranddesign]

Look again. Eileen: cross around her neck. Mr Magnum: cross on his ring, cross around his neck, two crosses hanging on the wall behind him. Ya know, just more of those a-hole Christian bad guys.

And we're also treated to a page of US soldiers who are, of course, racist. What else would they be?

It's unnecessary. It's indulgent. Be professional.

I think the first arc was a telling of the origin but also had an over-arching theme in regards to the EXTREMES of science and progress

I think this arc will perhaps explore the extremes of religion and politics. Its much more taboo obviously ... but Valiant shouldn't be about playing it safe.

I definitely see the point of not creating shallow caricatures and one dimensional bad guys based on stereotypes. That's also not what Valiant is about either...

But lets remember ... the heroes of the book are not-stereotypical - they are the complete opposite of the stereotype - Eric as far as I can tell probably leans republican and Woody is politically incorrect and probably cares nothing of politics ... I think Asmus does something interesting in his writing in which he creates two main-characters that are these fully evolved independent type characters and the characters/enemies around them are completely cartoonish (and perhaps shallow ..where the main characters have tremendous depth). It's an interesting juxtaposition.

[swtor1091]

I wan't going to jump in but some peopel are being really negative. Was the episode great like previous issues no but was it down right terrible like shadowman has been since issue three *SQUEE* no... I would say that it was a good issue. Nothing truly special but thats okay. It was good none the less. I liked it and some of the jokes were awesome. Escepially the ones with the goat.
"Oh man did we leave you here all day... you would have loved the hot tub." HAHAHA

[bygranddesign]

I didn't laugh as much as previous issues

but there was definitely some LOL moments

"how the hell do you make the weirdest things into BONER-FUEL?"

"Why does everyone who knows science use it to try and kill me?!?"

[Bone-A-Fach-ee]

Ummm... Is it wrong of me to say "calm down about the religion thing."? I mean seriously, it's a comic book. If there are ever references to my personal lifestyle of any sort, I never feel that the author is talking about ME, and I accept the commentary as part of a larger picture. I don't get all sensitive about it and decide to not like anything else about the issue because of it.
Did anyone get offended at the "swimming" comment? No? Why not? Equally as derogatory, but just didn't effect you personally.
Stop the hypocrisy. Either you hate ALL racism and religious overtones overall, no matter where they're directed, or stop thinking that you're so noble for standing up to the "religious/political" BS. Your'e not being persecuted. Calm down.

Sorry to take such a stand here, but I am equally offended by all of that, probably MORE offended than you might be of the initial offering by Asmus. I don't want to make anything on these board personal, negative, or hurtful, but this thread is childish and ridiculous in my opinion.

[hawkeyeps]

After reading it I was like "this is not a comic I want to buy".

The whole clone 69 thing rubs me the wrong way, I didn't need to see Woody prancing around in a Santa hat and boxer shorts for that many panels. Didn't care for the romcom or whatever that was supposed to be.

The art also wasn't my cup of tea especially after becoming accustomed Fowler, it was reminiscent of the art change on Shadowman after Zircher left.

The Goat seems to be nothing more than a cheap comedy prop and even though I get what their doing making Eric a buttoned down right wing security freak and Woody a disrespectful hedonist frat boy idiot, the character types are too extreme and they come off as unrealistic because of that. More like caricatures than characters.

That's fine for an independent title but as part of the Valiant universe it should have that real feeling, like these characters could actually exist in reality and be relate-able. Dysart has done a great job of this with Harbinger and now HARD Corps.

Woody and Eric's characters can be revealed with much more subtly, we don't need to be beat over the head with it. Especially Woody it's almost coming off as "wacka wacka look at me I'm wacky and pervy".

I did get a little chuckle out of the last last page where Eric is like "Yay, I get to do dooshy tea party crap!".

I'm Canadian so not so offended by the politics but it clearly portrayed some very unsubtle right wing stereo types.

It's over the top, I get it, but if over the top means unrealistic is it a good fit for the VEI universe? If it was it's own book it would be irrelevant but it's not it's part of the universe. I think editorial should have pulled the reigns a little more here.

2/5, I'll buy the next issue but it's on my S list with A&A right now.

[ThatDarnCabbage]

Ummm... Is it wrong of me to say "calm down about the religion thing."? I mean seriously, it's a comic book. If there are ever references to my personal lifestyle of any sort, I never feel that the author is talking about ME, and I accept the commentary as part of a larger picture. I don't get all sensitive about it and decide to not like anything else about the issue because of it.
Did anyone get offended at the "swimming" comment? No? Why not? Equally as derogatory, but just didn't effect you personally.
Stop the hypocrisy. Either you hate ALL racism and religious overtones overall, no matter where they're directed, or stop thinking that you're so noble for standing up to the "religious/political" BS. Your'e not being persecuted. Calm down.

Sorry to take such a stand here, but I am equally offended by all of that, probably MORE offended than you might be of the initial offering by Asmus. I don't want to make anything on these board personal, negative, or hurtful, but this thread is childish and ridiculous in my opinion.

Dude, I think you need to calm down. Not that many people in this thread event commented on the religious aspect, and I don't think anyone even said it was offensive to them, just that it was poorly handled ad not funny. I don't understand what's *SQUEE* you off so much about people's comments here, but you're blowing things out of proportions far more than anyone you're claiming to be acting so offended by the religious aspect of the comic. I reread this entire thread and I found only one comment that sounded like it could've been what you're so mad about, but only barely. I don't understand where your anger is coming from, because I see no evidence of of people acting the way you claim them to be. People are having a fun, intelligent discussion here, with actual reasoning to back up their opinions. No reason to get so angry.

[BugsySig]

Ummm... Is it wrong of me to say "calm down about the religion thing."? I mean seriously, it's a comic book. If there are ever references to my personal lifestyle of any sort, I never feel that the author is talking about ME, and I accept the commentary as part of a larger picture. I don't get all sensitive about it and decide to not like anything else about the issue because of it.
Did anyone get offended at the "swimming" comment? No? Why not? Equally as derogatory, but just didn't effect you personally.
Stop the hypocrisy. Either you hate ALL racism and religious overtones overall, no matter where they're directed, or stop thinking that you're so noble for standing up to the "religious/political" BS. Your'e not being persecuted. Calm down.

Sorry to take such a stand here, but I am equally offended by all of that, probably MORE offended than you might be of the initial offering by Asmus. I don't want to make anything on these board personal, negative, or hurtful, but this thread is childish and ridiculous in my opinion.

Dude, I think you need to calm down. Not that many people in this thread event commented on the religious aspect, and I don't think anyone even said it was offensive to them, just that it was poorly handled ad not funny. I don't understand what's *SQUEE* you off so much about people's comments here, but you're blowing things out of proportions far more than anyone you're claiming to be acting so offended by the religious aspect of the comic. I reread this entire thread and I found only one comment that sounded like it could've been what you're so mad about, but only barely. I don't understand where your anger is coming from, because I see no evidence of of people acting the way you claim them to be. People are having a fun, intelligent discussion here, with actual reasoning to back up their opinions. No reason to get so angry.

JMatt just has that effect on people.

[lorddunlow]

Ummm... Is it wrong of me to say "calm down about the religion thing."? I mean seriously, it's a comic book. If there are ever references to my personal lifestyle of any sort, I never feel that the author is talking about ME, and I accept the commentary as part of a larger picture. I don't get all sensitive about it and decide to not like anything else about the issue because of it.
Did anyone get offended at the "swimming" comment? No? Why not? Equally as derogatory, but just didn't effect you personally.
Stop the hypocrisy. Either you hate ALL racism and religious overtones overall, no matter where they're directed, or stop thinking that you're so noble for standing up to the "religious/political" BS. Your'e not being persecuted. Calm down.

Sorry to take such a stand here, but I am equally offended by all of that, probably MORE offended than you might be of the initial offering by Asmus. I don't want to make anything on these board personal, negative, or hurtful, but this thread is childish and ridiculous in my opinion.

Dude, I think you need to calm down. Not that many people in this thread event commented on the religious aspect, and I don't think anyone even said it was offensive to them, just that it was poorly handled ad not funny. I don't understand what's *SQUEE* you off so much about people's comments here, but you're blowing things out of proportions far more than anyone you're claiming to be acting so offended by the religious aspect of the comic. I reread this entire thread and I found only one comment that sounded like it could've been what you're so mad about, but only barely. I don't understand where your anger is coming from, because I see no evidence of of people acting the way you claim them to be. People are having a fun, intelligent discussion here, with actual reasoning to back up their opinions. No reason to get so angry.

JMatt just has that effect on people.

Yeah. Screw him. Jmatt sucks.

[bygranddesign]

JMatt just has that effect on people.

Yeah. Screw him. Jmatt sucks.

Yeeeaaah ... I can't even enjoy the fact that Torque lives on ... because it will always be a reminder that Jmatt was right...

[Bone-A-Fach-ee]

Ummm... Is it wrong of me to say "calm down about the religion thing."? I mean seriously, it's a comic book. If there are ever references to my personal lifestyle of any sort, I never feel that the author is talking about ME, and I accept the commentary as part of a larger picture. I don't get all sensitive about it and decide to not like anything else about the issue because of it.
Did anyone get offended at the "swimming" comment? No? Why not? Equally as derogatory, but just didn't effect you personally.
Stop the hypocrisy. Either you hate ALL racism and religious overtones overall, no matter where they're directed, or stop thinking that you're so noble for standing up to the "religious/political" BS. Your'e not being persecuted. Calm down.

Sorry to take such a stand here, but I am equally offended by all of that, probably MORE offended than you might be of the initial offering by Asmus. I don't want to make anything on these board personal, negative, or hurtful, but this thread is childish and ridiculous in my opinion.

Dude, I think you need to calm down. Not that many people in this thread event commented on the religious aspect, and I don't think anyone even said it was offensive to them, just that it was poorly handled ad not funny. I don't understand what's *SQUEE* you off so much about people's comments here, but you're blowing things out of proportions far more than anyone you're claiming to be acting so offended by the religious aspect of the comic. I reread this entire thread and I found only one comment that sounded like it could've been what you're so mad about, but only barely. I don't understand where your anger is coming from, because I see no evidence of of people acting the way you claim them to be. People are having a fun, intelligent discussion here, with actual reasoning to back up their opinions. No reason to get so angry.

JMatt just has that effect on people.

Yeah. Screw him. Jmatt sucks.

I wasn't going after 1 person here. I didn't even realize that it was all JMatt, until I re-read the thread, after the newbie slapped back! Hah! Sorry JMatt! But, in response, at least half this thread was about the political/ religious jokes. And it just bothered me that we're talking about a comic book, and it turns all political, and religious. I understand that this is a discussion thread, but those are generally the two topics that we "keep out of the bedroom", or whatever you want to call it.
Wasn't going after anyone, just don't want your peanut butter dipped in my chocolate.
Probably just shoulda kept my mouth shut, but just in general, not a fan of religious/political talk in my happy place!
No disrespect JMatt!

[ThatDarnCabbage]

Ummm... Is it wrong of me to say "calm down about the religion thing."? I mean seriously, it's a comic book. If there are ever references to my personal lifestyle of any sort, I never feel that the author is talking about ME, and I accept the commentary as part of a larger picture. I don't get all sensitive about it and decide to not like anything else about the issue because of it.
Did anyone get offended at the "swimming" comment? No? Why not? Equally as derogatory, but just didn't effect you personally.
Stop the hypocrisy. Either you hate ALL racism and religious overtones overall, no matter where they're directed, or stop thinking that you're so noble for standing up to the "religious/political" BS. Your'e not being persecuted. Calm down.

Sorry to take such a stand here, but I am equally offended by all of that, probably MORE offended than you might be of the initial offering by Asmus. I don't want to make anything on these board personal, negative, or hurtful, but this thread is childish and ridiculous in my opinion.

Dude, I think you need to calm down. Not that many people in this thread event commented on the religious aspect, and I don't think anyone even said it was offensive to them, just that it was poorly handled ad not funny. I don't understand what's *SQUEE* you off so much about people's comments here, but you're blowing things out of proportions far more than anyone you're claiming to be acting so offended by the religious aspect of the comic. I reread this entire thread and I found only one comment that sounded like it could've been what you're so mad about, but only barely. I don't understand where your anger is coming from, because I see no evidence of of people acting the way you claim them to be. People are having a fun, intelligent discussion here, with actual reasoning to back up their opinions. No reason to get so angry.

JMatt just has that effect on people.

Yeah. Screw him. Jmatt sucks.

I wasn't going after 1 person here. I didn't even realize that it was all JMatt, until I re-read the thread, after the newbie slapped back! Hah! Sorry JMatt! But, in response, at least half this thread was about the political/ religious jokes. And it just bothered me that we're talking about a comic book, and it turns all political, and religious. I understand that this is a discussion thread, but those are generally the two topics that we "keep out of the bedroom", or whatever you want to call it.
Wasn't going after anyone, just don't want your peanut butter dipped in my chocolate.
Probably just shoulda kept my mouth shut, but just in general, not a fan of religious/political talk in my happy place!
No disrespect JMatt!

Oh I understand that, I prefer to keep that kind of talk out of a forum about comics too. And I do think, for the most part, it has been kept out in this thread. But there is political commentary/satire in this comic, so I think what's been discussed here has been fair and relevant to the actual discussion of the comic. Although I'm glad you're so understanding with my comment. I haven't been on this forum long, so I was expecting an overly strong, angry response like most places on the internet. I've been very impressed and happy with people on this forum. It's fitting for a forum for a comic company as awesome as Valiant.

[jmatt]

Probably just shoulda kept my mouth shut, but just in general, not a fan of religious/political talk in my happy place! No disrespect JMatt!

None taken. It's just comic books. And like I said, I'm not a particularly religious person so none of it offends me personally. But, ya know, if they're gonna beat me over the head with it then some commentary isn't unwarranted.

And Dunlow is right, I do suck. Taking precious comics from easily fooled readers and all. Tick-tock tick-tock.

[lorddunlow]

To clarify my previous statement - jmatt sucks for totally different reasons than this thread.

Serious clarification - I wasn't getting into the political or religious stuff at all. I was responding (and agreeing - hate when that happens) to jmatt's criticism of the use of the political/religious jabs as a tool to push an agenda. I was referencing his long term rant during the early run of Harbinger in which he felt Dysart was pushing an agenda - I fiercely argued that stance, but I really feel that I'm being beaten over the head with Asmus's viewpoint on these topics - and I don't like it at all. He may not have had that intention at all, but it really felt like I was being preached to (for lack a better term).

[jmatt]

To clarify my previous statement - jmatt sucks for totally different reasons than this thread.

Serious clarification - I wasn't getting into the political or religious stuff at all. I was responding (and agreeing - hate when that happens) to jmatt's criticism of the use of the political/religious jabs as a tool to push an agenda. I was referencing his long term rant during the early run of Harbinger in which he felt Dysart was pushing an agenda - I fiercely argued that stance, but I really feel that I'm being beaten over the head with Asmus's viewpoint on these topics - and I don't like it at all. He may not have had that intention at all, but it really felt like I was being preached to (for lack a better term).

Dude, no worries. You can say I suck all you want and I know your heart's in the right place. We understand each other that well, at least. I think it's a strength that we can slam each other good-naturedly and not feel the need to clarify with a smiley or the stooges. I know who my friends are.

It's Canadians like you who make me feel proud to be a member of this board.

[Watchtower]

Decent issue. Definitely the worst of the series, but the last arc was so absolutely amazing that it couldn't be topped easily.

The jokes were alright. Some good ones, but it wasn't "lulz everywhere" that the past issues were. I do see where people are coming from about the characters being a little on the extreme side.

Plot-wise, it does feel like it's a little lost right now after the last arc, but it also feels mostly like set-up, so I'm letting it slide a bit. We might have a problem if this continues in #6 though.

[Bl00dsh0t]

my late-(ish) thoughts:

The Good:
- I liked Q&W trying to move back into an everyday setting and not be 'instant superheroes', this added realism and felt more natural for the characters
- Clone 69, very funny and a good side kick
- Goat played a bit-part but loved his name, looking forward to Goat #0
- the pacing, these books always feel like decent lenghty reads for me. I liked the change of pace
- Magnum, sets up some interesting possibilities for Quantum
- the art, I actually thought it was OK, not to the extent of the first arc but still captured that Q&W 'feel'

The bad:
- female Detective missing from the issue (apart from the dream sequence)
- didn't feel all that connected to the Valiant U as some other issues (even 1 showed some connection with the Sect)
- ummm, that's about it really, overall I thought it was pretty good. Loving this series.

[Kertes]

Just saw the preview for issue #6, and *sigh*... I wasn't sure I was that much of an art guy, but man, Doyle's art is really killing my Q&W experience. I almost couldn't stand reading it.

I'm not about to spend $4.50 for a comic strip-like art... And Q&W was supposed to be one of my favorite titles.

[lorddunlow]

Just saw the preview for issue #6, and *sigh*... I wasn't sure I was that much of an art guy, but man, Doyle's art is really killing my Q&W experience. I almost couldn't stand reading it.

I'm not about to spend $4.50 for a comic strip-like art... And Q&W was supposed to be one of my favorite titles.

+1

I'm not joking, her art literally makes me feel queasy. It's the oddest sensation ever.

[bygranddesign]

It's definitely not Fowler

but I think the art is quirky and fun

I do think if they change up the artists again for the next arc (and fowler is not available) Lupacchino would be a good fit

[Baramos]

My only problem with this issue is Woody banging the clone chick seemed a little rapey. She seems almost like a child intellectually, or like a child who is precocious/gifted but inexperienced with life from being isolated from the outside world. It just took me out of the issue a bit. I kept expecting Eric to bring it up in that first part when he's chewing Woody out.

EDIT: Re: the political subtext, both this and A&A are clearly leaning towards the liberal side of things. I'm a liberal so it doesn't bother me. So is it really alienating to conservative readers?

[grendeljd]

JMatt just has that effect on people.

Yeah. Screw him. Jmatt sucks.

Yeeeaaah ... I can't even enjoy the fact that Torque lives on ... because it will always be a reminder that Jmatt was right...

It's Canadians like you who make me feel proud to be a member of this board.

Zing!

I suddenly feel the need to get a t-shirt that just says 'Jmatt Was Right'

[leonmallett]

The weakest issue so far of a series I am really not caring for. I did not enjoy the art, but then neither do I enjoy Fowler's work I am sorry to say; I find that for me the jokes just are not funny, but accept others think they are; what passes as satire in this book seems leaden and crude, with little real wit or sophistication; and the story is pretty much a mess on my reading.

The only high point in the book for me was the stuff with Woody and Vincent. There felt like a warmth there in the characterization. I am buying this book to support VEI, because on balance I want them to succeed, but this level of 'quality' is close to causing me to drop my first VEI title.

For me Archer and Armstrong combines elements of humour and satire, with enjoyable action and adventure, an engaging narrative, along with a warmth for its leads. Quantum & Woody misses on so many levels by comparison for this reader.