"Planet Death" overall thoughts and discussion.

[lorddunlow]

Those pics look great.

So, everyone's only real nitpick is the title of this arc may be misleading?? I think the term 'Planet Death' holds great symbolism here. Loam, homeworld of the Vine, is the planet of death for Aric, the death of his dreams, the death of his people, and his casting adrift on the seas of time.

I loved this arc, improving and expanding on the previous arcs. While it may not have been all-out interstellar war, the action scenes were terrific. But I liked how Vendetti focused more on the aspects of faith as seen through the major players. Aric, a man out of time, bereft of family and home, now finds a remnant of his people alive. He may have come to Loam initially to bring death, instead he finds life and a renewed purpose.

The Vine priest also renews his faith by his insistence on the worthiness of Aric and the fulfillment of religious prophecy. Even when the cold truth that may lie at the heart of their religion is exposed, the Priest doesn't waver, for his faith has given him a renewed purpose. The circle is complete.

Toss in the pain, anguish, and ultimate sacrifice by Gafti, and you have a one helluva good story. Very well-done by all.

I'm not sure about everyone else, but my opinion had nothing to do with the title of the arc. The arc was a letdown because it was hyped soooooo much by VEI and the media outlets. It was supposed to be an epic, universe altering event, but in reality it was a great story with lots of little seeds planted in the universe that I'm sure VEI will sow in the future (which isn't a bad thing at all). Had there been no hype, this arc would have received a lot more praise from me, but it just didn't hold up to expectations, IMHO.

[Carson]

Nicely put. Agree 100%.

[jmatt]

Had there been no hype, this arc would have received a lot more praise from me, but it just didn't hold up to expectations, IMHO.

Managing customer expectations is important. But when you're trying to sell comics, expect hype.

[Peter]

Those pics look great.

So, everyone's only real nitpick is the title of this arc may be misleading?? I think the term 'Planet Death' holds great symbolism here. Loam, homeworld of the Vine, is the planet of death for Aric, the death of his dreams, the death of his people, and his casting adrift on the seas of time.

I loved this arc, improving and expanding on the previous arcs. While it may not have been all-out interstellar war, the action scenes were terrific. But I liked how Vendetti focused more on the aspects of faith as seen through the major players. Aric, a man out of time, bereft of family and home, now finds a remnant of his people alive. He may have come to Loam initially to bring death, instead he finds life and a renewed purpose.

The Vine priest also renews his faith by his insistence on the worthiness of Aric and the fulfillment of religious prophecy. Even when the cold truth that may lie at the heart of their religion is exposed, the Priest doesn't waver, for his faith has given him a renewed purpose. The circle is complete.

Toss in the pain, anguish, and ultimate sacrifice by Gafti, and you have a one helluva good story. Very well-done by all.

[String]

Those pics look great.

So, everyone's only real nitpick is the title of this arc may be misleading?? I think the term 'Planet Death' holds great symbolism here. Loam, homeworld of the Vine, is the planet of death for Aric, the death of his dreams, the death of his people, and his casting adrift on the seas of time.

I loved this arc, improving and expanding on the previous arcs. While it may not have been all-out interstellar war, the action scenes were terrific. But I liked how Vendetti focused more on the aspects of faith as seen through the major players. Aric, a man out of time, bereft of family and home, now finds a remnant of his people alive. He may have come to Loam initially to bring death, instead he finds life and a renewed purpose.

The Vine priest also renews his faith by his insistence on the worthiness of Aric and the fulfillment of religious prophecy. Even when the cold truth that may lie at the heart of their religion is exposed, the Priest doesn't waver, for his faith has given him a renewed purpose. The circle is complete.

Toss in the pain, anguish, and ultimate sacrifice by Gafti, and you have a one helluva good story. Very well-done by all.

I'm not sure about everyone else, but my opinion had nothing to do with the title of the arc. The arc was a letdown because it was hyped soooooo much by VEI and the media outlets. It was supposed to be an epic, universe altering event, but in reality it was a great story with lots of little seeds planted in the universe that I'm sure VEI will sow in the future (which isn't a bad thing at all). Had there been no hype, this arc would have received a lot more praise from me, but it just didn't hold up to expectations, IMHO.

Ah, so the hype machine went into overdrive. Ok, I wasn't aware that had happened, that was before I got here.

[leonmallett]

I found it pretty underwhelming to be honest, but then X-O Manowar is low on my ranking of VEI books.

The talking up of Planet death alluded to something bigger that was delivered, and I do think that if an 'epic' was what they wanted to tell, then 4 issues these days just does not do that.

I found it underwhelming, also. Just felt somewhat empty.......Some important things were shown, such as more backstory on the armor, but there simply wasn't enough.

I didn't rank X-O as low as you did before Planet Death. I quite liked the Ninjak arc, for instance.

The Ninjak arc has probably been the clear high-point in X-O Manowar for me; that arc showed the most potential for the book and the character for me.

[leonmallett]

Those pics look great.

So, everyone's only real nitpick is the title of this arc may be misleading??

I think that is simplifying too much. This was heralded as some kind of epic, but really for me personally, I would say it is perfunctory. But tastes vary of course.

[Carson]

Looking up perfunctory .....



Uh, yeah, I'd have to disagree with that.

Pretty sure Nord and Venditty would too. That's a pretty *SQUEE* adjective to use about someone's creative endeavors.

[leonmallett]

Looking up perfunctory .....



Uh, yeah, I'd have to disagree with that.

Pretty sure Nord and Venditty would too. That's a pretty *SQUEE* adjective to use about someone's creative endeavors.

I am sure they would; however as a reader I know how I felt. Just as you know how your experience as a reader you felt.

Do I feel more could have been done even in those 4 issues? Yes.

Do I feel it was underwhelming? Yes.

Do I feel little was done to advance the character (yet again). Sorry, but yes.

Do I feel that the story lived up to the (limited) hype? No.

In fact the only beat of great note really for me was the prospect of relocating to Earth, and quite frankly the A to B to C to D to get to that beat, well I do think VALIANT has told many better stories already in other books, and even within this book (the Ninjak arc which I felt has added the greatest amount to this series so far).

And if you want to play definition ping pong ( ), then I would go with 1:

per·func·to·ry [per-fuhngk-tuh-ree]
adjective
1. performed merely as a routine duty; hasty and superficial: perfunctory courtesy.
2. lacking interest, care, or enthusiasm;

It felt routine for this book, which as the vanguard book it should and could be better IMHO.

This is the flagship book, the best-seller, and I am clearly in a minority, but my opinion is no less valid than any other customer. I think this book could be a lot better. I look at the criticism leveled at Shadowman for example, yet when reasonable criticism applied to X-O Manowar is not received in the same way it seems.

Finally, how is using the word 'perfunctory' a ' SQUEE adjective 'to use about creative work? Uunless you are claiming no comics creator has just hustled work in regardless? I am not suggesting that in this instance, but it is an artistic medium open to interpretation, but you appear to argue from an assumption that every comics creator ever has only worked to the highest standards. However as noted by the definition above, I do think it mediocre at best, and had a feeling of routine level work.

[Carson]

Perfunctory means "carried out with a minimum of effort".

You're saying you think they phoned this one in. I'm saying you're being a *SQUEE* for saying that.

These guys don't "phone it in". Yes you might not have enjoyed the arc, but you should't challenge their work ethic because you weren't satisfied by the arc.

Maybe since I work in a creative industry (video + animation) I am overly sensitive?

Maybe you aren't so you're insensitive to how insulting you are being?

[hunter_peterson]

Yeah, I thought Planet Death was less exciting than it should have been, and the book itself moves a wee bit slow at times, but in no way is perfunctory an adequate descriptor of the book. It's very well made and the creators obviously care about what they're producing. And it reads FANTASTICALLY in the trade. I'm 90% my feelings on this arc will change when I read my sexy new XO Hardcover when it comes.

The only Valiant book that ever felt phoned in to me was Bloodshot towards the end of Sweircynski's run. (Totally butchered that spelling...) It became sloppy and dull, which was sad.

XO has never, ever been like that. At worst it could be called overly methodical.

[leonmallett]

Perfunctory means "carried out with a minimum of effort".

You're saying you think they phoned this one in. I'm saying you're being a *SQUEE* for saying that.

Nice. Name calling? It is okay to attack me for having an opinion through name calling essentially, but not okay for me to have an opinion you do not agree with, hence that name calling?

These guys don't "phone it in". Yes you might not have enjoyed the arc, but you should't challenge their work ethic because you weren't satisfied by the arc.

Maybe since I work in a creative industry (video + animation) I am overly sensitive?

Maybe you aren't so you're insensitive to how insulting you are being?

Maybe you are, maybe I am. Maybe both, maybe neither.

However, can you say, hand on heart, that no-one in any creative industry (and I am not specifically referencing Planet Death here - let me be clear about that) has ever 'phoned it in'?

That logic would mean great art (in the broad sense of the arts) in every instance. Given the varied standards of quality of output among many creatives, I would argue that is not the case.

If you feel that way we are evidently at an impasse and I suggest you carry on throwing curse words at me if you feel that is reasonable debate. You might note I have not responded and done the same to you for what seems a high handed and potentially (as you say) overly sensitive response to what is simply my own personal opinion.

[lorddunlow]

So, why can't X-O be black?

[jmatt]

So, is this the Cary Nord pencils to colors I've heard of? I note the lack of inking. Or at least heavy inking.

Don't know how I missed those pics in this thread. Very nice!

[Carson]

Yes, I am telling you that creatives don't phone it in. To say these "top if their game" professionals phoned it in is insulting. I've met them and they're not the type to just do "good enough" work intentionally.

The creatives I've know and have worked with at the video production company (my first three years), the ad agency (my next 8 years) and the university (the last 6 months) all long to do great work every day. They want to push their abilities and grow as artists and thinkers. Robert and Cary are these types of people.

There are times when budgets, timelines, workloads, etc may force creatives to do the best they can within those restraints, but it is never because of a lack of effort.

Your wording meant a lack of effort, and I'm asking you to rethink your wording.

Perfunctory means "carried out with a minimum of effort".

You're saying you think they phoned this one in. I'm saying you're being a *SQUEE* for saying that.

Nice. Name calling? It is okay to attack me for having an opinion through name calling essentially, but not okay for me to have an opinion you do not agree with, hence that name calling?

These guys don't "phone it in". Yes you might not have enjoyed the arc, but you should't challenge their work ethic because you weren't satisfied by the arc.

Maybe since I work in a creative industry (video + animation) I am overly sensitive?

Maybe you aren't so you're insensitive to how insulting you are being?

Maybe you are, maybe I am. Maybe both, maybe neither.

However, can you say, hand on heart, that no-one in any creative industry (and I am not specifically referencing Planet Death here - let me be clear about that) has ever 'phoned it in'?

That logic would mean great art (in the broad sense of the arts) in every instance. Given the varied standards of quality of output among many creatives, I would argue that is not the case.

If you feel that way we are evidently at an impasse and I suggest you carry on throwing curse words at me if you feel that is reasonable debate. You might note I have not responded and done the same to you for what seems a high handed and potentially (as you say) overly sensitive response to what is simply my own personal opinion.

[Carson]

So, is this the Cary Nord pencils to colors I've heard of? I note the lack of inking. Or at least heavy inking.

Don't know how I missed those pics in this thread. Very nice!

Yep, he's been doing this style for commissions for a while now and it looks like he sold management on letting him apply that technique to a monthly book. The previews we've seen so far look amazing! I haven't looked forward to a book this much in a while.

[leonmallett]

Your wording meant a lack of effort, and I'm asking you to rethink your wording.

Calling me a *SQUEE* is hardly reasonable; so why on earth would I rethink my opinion when you attack me?

Be more civil and apologise and I will continue to debate with you, but otherwise, I have nothing else to say to you.

[Carson]

Your wording meant a lack of effort, and I'm asking you to rethink your wording.

Calling me a *SQUEE* is hardly reasonable; so why on earth would I rethink my opinion when you attack me?

Be more civil and apologise and I will continue to debate with you, but otherwise, I have nothing else to say to you.

Ok on the count of three lets both apologize. You for insulting the artists and me for saying that was a *SQUEE* move.

[kjjohanson]

Your wording meant a lack of effort, and I'm asking you to rethink your wording.

Calling me a *SQUEE* is hardly reasonable; so why on earth would I rethink my opinion when you attack me?

Be more civil and apologise and I will continue to debate with you, but otherwise, I have nothing else to say to you.

Ok on the count of three lets both apologize. You for insulting the artists and me for saying that was a *SQUEE* move.

1…2…3…

Go!

[lorddunlow]

I'm sorry.

[lorddunlow]

:waits:

:looks around:

Nobody else? *SQUEE* bags.

[blujay]

I thought it was a pretty cool arc, I personally enjoyed the Ninjak arc more but this arc was definitely a great concept, I thought it was executed fairly well.

I felt that it did it's main mission, which was painting the main antagonists of the series as sympathetic and understandable, very well. Venditti did well by not making them all just an evil race. And I'm a huge sucker for Nord's art, I know a lot of people criticized it during PD but I think that was just silly nit picking, because the man is a massive talent and he always brings his A game

After reading it, it feels more like a way to set the stage for the future of X-O rather than an epic standalone story.

Overall: 8/10

[Carson]

I'm sorry.

Hahahah. Just saw this. You sir are a funny guy.

[kjjohanson]

I'm sorry.

Yeah, well, you should be!

[kjjohanson]

So, everyone's only real nitpick is the title of this arc may be misleading??

That's not what I'm saying. Let's look at it this way. While there were more of Valiant's main characters involved, the events of Harbinger Wars were, by comparison, not equal to the scope of the events of Planet Death. Twice as many issues were devoted to Harbinger Wars. Planet Death should have been longer because the scope of the events warranted it. I'll post more on this when I have the opportunity to flesh out my objections, but I'll leave you for now with the point that made me give up on trying to defend the writing:

"Bouldermen from the planet Petros."

Really? That's the best you can do?