Valiant Timeline / Chronology (VEI)

[DIrishB]

Updated for all the titles released over the past couple weeks, including:

Harbinger #14, Bloodshot #13, Shadowman #9, Quantum and Woody! #2, Harbinger #15, Archer & Armstrong #12


Harbinger Wars and all its tie-ins (the ongoing Harbinger and Bloodshot titles) are completely broken up and placed chronologically. Once the trades are released I'm going to go back through it and possibly break them up by page number even further just to appease my obsessive compulsive disorder , but for now its pretty spot on. If you notice any mistakes let me know, suggestions are always welcome.

That said, Harbinger Wars was a huge pain in the *SQUEE* to break up chronologically with Harbinger and Bloodshot, only because Harbinger Wars itself jumped back and forth between the present day events and the future events (week later) of the events being described to the PRS higher ups. The amount of crossover and events occurring in all three series made for a lot of jumping back and forth, which wouldn't have been so bad if I'd been reading the actual issues...unfortunately I download them through Comixology and that resulted in a nightmare of note-taking and re-arrangement.

But, for now, its done. Hoping future crossovers will be a little easier in that department.

Enjoy.

[kjjohanson]

Any chance the color for A&A can be changed to something a little more legible?

[DIrishB]

Any chance the color for A&A can be changed to something a little more legible?

Yeah I'll change it to a darker green next time I update it, which will be in next few days.

[DIrishB]

Updated for X-O Manowar #16 and Bloodshot #0, and changed the font color for the Archer & Armstrong entries per request. See you in a couple weeks!

[leonmallett]

Nice work.

Did anyone ever pick up Ultraverse Year 1 and year 2 books? Would something like that (or Marvel's Sagas initiative in the mid-2000's) be a viable release for VEI/VALIANT, reflecting work like we see here, and summarizing some key story, back-story and mythos beats?

Also on the date-stamping of stories, that is better suited to done in ones than 4 issues arcs, simply from coordination between titles.

Also a date stamp immediately dates a book; and so to new readers in the future, may create a sense of being old or out of date (other than flashbacks).

[DIrishB]

Updated for Shadowman #10 and Quantum & Woody #10.

[lorddunlow]

Updated for Shadowman #10 and Quantum & Woody #10.

you're from the future!?

[Chiclo]

Updated for Shadowman #10 and Quantum & Woody #10.

you're from the future!?

Hey, baby, wake up from your asleep. We have arrived onto the future and the whole world has become elektronik, supersonik.

[DIrishB]

Updated for Shadowman #10 and Quantum & Woody #10.

you're from the future!?

LOL, apparently. Generating 1.21 Gigawatts takes a lot of 9-Volt Batteries.

(Sorry, I meant Q&W #3...I was tired.)

[DIrishB]

Updated for Eternal Warrior #1 and Archer & Armstrong #13.

[kjjohanson]

I've got a few suggestions, some of which I'd be willing to help with when I can find the time:

• Including an estimated month when stories are taking place (some of this should be able to be inferred by what the characters are wearing, or specific references to real-world events (this I realize is problematic because of comic book time, as story arcs might seem to flow immediately after one another and may cover just a few days in 8 or 9 months worth of comics)
• Indications of whether dates are estimated or explicit will make it easier to identify dates that might need to be updated when new info comes along
• More solidly grouping events that we know are close to each other in time (e.g. most of the events of the main action in Harbinger Wars necessarily would need to be moved as a group if new info arrives that requires changing the timeline)

Is the "Who Will Lead... the H.A.R.D. Corps?" entry referring to the comedy bit where the main characters of the Valiant line are being interviewed? That seems pretty clearly non-canon and probably shouldn't be included in the list.

[DIrishB]

I've got a few suggestions, some of which I'd be willing to help with when I can find the time:

• Including an estimated month when stories are taking place (some of this should be able to be inferred by what the characters are wearing, or specific references to real-world events (this I realize is problematic because of comic book time, as story arcs might seem to flow immediately after one another and may cover just a few days in 8 or 9 months worth of comics)

In an effort to make it as accurate as possible I'm trying to avoid assumptions of any kind and using the exact (which are rare) or inferred dates from the comica themselves. If I recall correctly only two have included "present time" specific dates (the flashback events almost always have a specific date, at least in terms of the year), Harbiner #0 and the first issue of Harbinger Wars (or Harbinger #11, can't remember off the top of my head and I'm at gf's so can't check until tomorrow). Most others, in terms of present day events, don't even mention a year, let alone month. It's compounded by the fact that until Harbinger Wars there was very rarely, if any, mention of events from the other titles, so its tough to map out an exact sequence, let alone add month placemeńts, without making huge, and likely incorrect, assumptions.

In some cases while a specific year isn't mentioned, there are events placing those events specifically, like when Faith's parent's died based on the fact its said to happen the same year Spider-Man, Attack of the Clones, and Firefly came out, which was 2002. Also in that same comic its concretely placed that Harbinger ongoing begins sometime in 2012 due to the mention of The Avengers coming out and occurring 10 years after Faith's parents' death. By extension (at least in theory) that places X-O, Bloodshot, Harbinger, and Shadowman as beginning in 2012 and carrying into 2013 as the series progressed. So there is some element of the present day events happening "Now", or at the time the issues are released. Of course since the arcs are released over a 4 month period and the events in those arcs usually only occur over a few days or weeks, its impossible to accurately nail it down to occurring at a specific month within those years.

I do believe the vague timeline of events is intentional so as to give the writers and editorial more "wiggle-room", as compared to the classic Valiant comics which were all pretty specific in terms of timeline. Therefore I'm hesitant to make assumptions about dates due to the possibility of being wrong, and then not remembering that specific date was assumed instead of written in stone. It creates more work than its worth. That said I don't have a problem with the extra work so much as the possibility of making additional mistakes based on an incorrect assumption. The vagueness of the timeline works to my advantage in that regard as well.

That said, if you can find evidence of more specific dates I may have missed, or mentions of events in other titles to better place stuff, I'm always ready to listen and change things to reflect that. Any help is greatly appreciated!

• Indications of whether dates are estimated or explicit will make it easier to identify dates that might need to be updated when new info comes along

All dates listed are specific based on the comics themselves. The only assumptions made are for the past portion of Eternal Warrior #1, the past events of Quantum and Woody, etc. I've added question marks to the date of those entries just to be clear about the years not being set in stone.

• More solidly grouping events that we know are close to each other in time (e.g. most of the events of the main action in Harbinger Wars necessarily would need to be moved as a group if new info arrives that requires changing the timeline)

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this one. So far I've always grouped events known to be happening simultaneously (like Harbinger Wars and the Bloodshot and Harbinger ongoings) sequentially, or in chronological order of mentions of events from other books, like placing A&A #10 after the events of Bloodshot #5-9, since there's a reference in A&A #10 about Bloodshot's attack on that PRS facility. There's no specific timeframe, but since that facility is still offline I assume those events (Bloodshot #5-9) occurred not long before A&A #10, maybe a few days or weeks. Granted I try not to make assumptions, but that's a pretty safe one.

Is the "Who Will Lead... the H.A.R.D. Corps?" entry referring to the comedy bit where the main characters of the Valiant line are being interviewed? That seems pretty clearly non-canon and probably shouldn't be included in the list.

I've been trying to decide if that should be removed or kept. So far I've left it in only from a completist standpoint. While tonally it doesn't necessarily fit, it doesn't necessarily not fit from a continuity standpoint except for one thing: Master Darque being alive and on Earth, considering the events of the recent Shadowman arc. However, from that standpoint, I expect Darque to return at some point (unbelievable resurrections are sort of a cliche of the comic and soap opera mediums), and even if he never makes it to Earth, I can buy that he's somehow capable of creating an astral projection of himself to appear on Earth.

But yeah, tonally it doesn't necessarily fit given the overly comedic and snarky approach, at least with some characters. While Archer & Armstrong and Quantum & Woody largely rely on humor as part of their books, XO, Bloodshot, etc don't at all. We'll see. If they come out and claim it as non-canon and just for fun, I'll remove it. But I don't want to assume that without Valiant or one of the writers or editors saying so.

There's also a question of canonicity of the Quantum and Woody! Weekly one-page comics released through IGN, due to the 4th wall breaking element some of those had. But again, from a completionist standpoint I've left them in for now since they don't directly contradict anything, at least until they're possibly classified as non-canon by Valiant editorial.

[DIrishB]

Updated for X-O Manowar #17, Harbinger #16, and Bloodshot and H.A.R.D. Corps #14. Be back in a couple weeks with the next update.

[cdgodin]

Considering how busy Eternal Warrior will be soon with appearing in Unity and X-O, I believe his first arc should be placed before the new X-O arc, considering that (IIRC) Gilad seems to be secluded from society's events, while in the X-O arc he seems more aware of what is happening to the Earth globally and more proactive in regards to Aric's people landing in Dacia. Although after Unity it may work there, but I'm not sure as I can't remember if he was only reactive or proactive in regards to A&A's 2nd arc.

[DIrishB]

Considering how busy Eternal Warrior will be soon with appearing in Unity and X-O, I believe his first arc should be placed before the new X-O arc, considering that (IIRC) Gilad seems to be secluded from society's events, while in the X-O arc he seems more aware of what is happening to the Earth globally and more proactive in regards to Aric's people landing in Dacia. Although after Unity it may work there, but I'm not sure as I can't remember if he was only reactive or proactive in regards to A&A's 2nd arc.

That may be. I'm waiting to see how the rest of the first arc of EW plays out, as well as any references or mentions between Unity and the EW ongoing.

As it stands now I thought EW #1 occurs after the current XO arc, with Gilad secluding himself in Africa after his fight with Aric. He was actively acting as the Geomancer's protector in the A&A arcs featuring him, then showed up in XO. We'll see.

[DIrishB]

Updated for Shadowman #11 and Quantum & Woody #4.

Shadowman #11 specifically occurs on Halloween, despite Jack's phone displaying the date as July 1. I'll just chalk that up to an editing error or Jack not updating his phone to the correct date.

[DIrishB]

Considering how busy Eternal Warrior will be soon with appearing in Unity and X-O, I believe his first arc should be placed before the new X-O arc, considering that (IIRC) Gilad seems to be secluded from society's events, while in the X-O arc he seems more aware of what is happening to the Earth globally and more proactive in regards to Aric's people landing in Dacia. Although after Unity it may work there, but I'm not sure as I can't remember if he was only reactive or proactive in regards to A&A's 2nd arc.

Looks like you were right. Apparently its been said in interviews that the current EW arc (the present day portions, anyway), occur before A&A #5. Updated to fix that.

[lorddunlow]

Updated for Shadowman #11 and Quantum & Woody #4.

Shadowman #11 specifically occurs on Halloween, despite Jack's phone displaying the date as July 1. I'll just chalk that up to an editing error or Jack not updating his phone to the correct date.

That seems like an extremely stupid error. I mean, they knew it was a Halloween issue when they drew/wrote it. Why would you make something say July 1? What the hell?

[DIrishB]

Updated for Archer and Armstrong #14 and Eternal Warrior #2.

[DIrishB]

Updated for X-O Manowar #18, Bloodshot and H.A.R.D. Corps #15, and Harbinger #17.

[DIrishB]

Updated for:

Archer and Armstrong #15
Harbinger #18
Shadowman #12
Quantum and Woody #5
Unity #1


Since Archer and Armstrong #15 featured timetravel through different periods courtesy of Ivar's knowledge of timearcs, I took a slightly new approach. I italicized the time travel portions, while also repeating those pages in terms of the "present day" events from Archer's point of view. This allows the timeline to be read in chronological AND storyline order...after all, those scenes don't make much sense read long before the rest of the series, since its referencing things which happened later on than those time placements.

[bygranddesign]

I liked that the latest issue of A&A had a present day time listed - November 5th, 2013

That's one thing I liked about the original valiant that they haven't done at all really in the new universe - and that's having a tight continuity revolving around date's and times. Maybe from an editorial perspective and/or writer perspective it can be a nightmare ... but I think as a reader it gives further insight and perspective on where and when everything is taking place ... and how much time has passed between issues/scenes/story arc's...

[DIrishB]

I liked that the latest issue of A&A had a present day time listed - November 5th, 2013

That's one thing I liked about the original valiant that they haven't done at all really in the new universe - and that's having a tight continuity revolving around date's and times. Maybe from an editorial perspective and/or writer perspective it can be a nightmare ... but I think as a reader it gives further insight and perspective on where and when everything is taking place ... and how much time has passed between issues/scenes/story arc's...

Agreed. I didn't even read the original Valiant titles but knew that about them, which initially drew me to the relaunch titles.

We've only recieved several specific dates, one in Harbinger #0 placing it in August, 2012; one in Harbinger ongoing (think it was #13) placing it in January, 2013; one in Shadowman #11 which placed it on October 31, 2013; and the most recent A&A, placing it on Nov 5, 2013.

While I can understand the specific dating can make it tough for the editorial staff, there aren't a huge number of titles so it's not impossible or even that difficult. Even just a month and year placement would be great, not specifying particular days, to offer more editorial and writing leeway.

And given that the arcs usually cover 4-5 issues each occurring over only a handful of days each, allowing for huge multiple month spans in the timeline between arcs, it shouldn't be too difficult. Especially since continuity and dating was such a big part of the original universe.

And Valiant, if you need someone to keep track of continuity, I'll happily quit my job to help you guys keep it in order. Wink, wink.

[DIrishB]

Updated for X-O Manowar #19, Bloodshot and H.A.R.D. Corps #16, and Eternal Warrior #3.

[DIrishB]

Updated for Shadowman #13 and Quantum and Woody! #6.

Q&W #6 made reference to the Sect Civil War arc in Archer & Armstrong, so it apparently occurs afterwards. And since the second arc of Q&W picks up pretty much immediately after the first one, I think its safe to place Q&W #1-8 after the A&A Sect Civil War arc.

Also, as was mentioned in another thread, apparently Dinesh confirmed that the first arc of Eternal Warrior occurs 2 years before A&A begins (or at least A&A's second arc where he makes his first appearance), so moved that to 2010.

Will update for Shadowman #13X as soon as it arrives in the mail, as well as next week's issue...er, next week.