JIM SHOOTER....COME JOIN US! The water's FINE!

dino · Post by **dino** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:35 pm

Agreed, Layton is not a turd. He has been really great to the site. Money makes people do silly things if thats the version you believe. Besides there are a million different stories as to what happened. Best to just leave the past in the past and enjoy all the great stories.

prismra · Post by **prismra** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:51 pm

I've always wondered why Mr. Shooter never made a post here. I guess he can't be bothered by a bunch of fanboys. I imagine that Valiant is really a sore spot for him. I'd be frickin livid if a bunch of *SQUEE* suits screwed me out of my company. Ugg, I'm getting *SQUEE* thinking about how much cooler valiant would have been had he been left in charge....

jedimarley · Post by **jedimarley** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:59 pm

If he's bitter , it better not be at us (the fans) it better be at the people who screwed him, not us. We stood by him through Marvel, Valiant, Defiant, and Broadway :x
Maybe if he came here we could renew his passion for the comic book industry

DawgPhan · Post by **DawgPhan** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:55 pm

Who is the guy that lives next to Steve Massarky(sp?) I am sure that he has a different spin on the whole thing also...

MedicAR · Post by **MedicAR** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:05 pm

I can only hope the big guy decides to join us......

DJSpecter · Post by **DJSpecter** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 1:30 am

Just to comment on the wishing for more creators/artists/writers/managers/mailroom-boys showing up here. I read something from some of the actors from 24. They said something that really struck me. I don't remember the actual words but essentially they were saying how important it is to control the urge to look at internet blogs to see what other people are saying, even more important to stay out of the conversations. So yeah, it'd be nice if we could have a full account from everybody. What they saw and heard. What kind of deals didn't happen, and which ones did that we just weren't aware of because they didn't go anywhere.

But two points:

Fanboys are jerks. They are pesky and annoying. If they don't question every decision that you ever made, they are going to stalk you.

Sometimes it's better not to be envolved in how other people percieve you. Because whether its an ego boost or an ego drop, it is really smarter to stay out of it.

Hmm, if two bits is 25 cents, what is one bit?

-Dave

X-O HoboJoe · Post by **X-O HoboJoe** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:35 am

DJSpecter wrote:Hmm, if two bits is 25 cents, what is one bit?

-Dave

Twice shy.

myron · Post by **myron** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:38 am

X-O HoboJoe wrote:
DJSpecter wrote:Hmm, if two bits is 25 cents, what is one bit?

-Dave
Twice shy.

thought that was once bitten...

David_Cody · Post by **David_Cody** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:56 am

Yes, but in the case of 24 (a show I watch every week) that show is an on-going process. But with Valiant, we're talking about a company that has been out of business for a lonnnngggg time.

You're not going to change the script of storyline of Valiant by posting messages here. I'm not seeing the connection.

X-O HoboJoe · Post by **X-O HoboJoe** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:30 am

I see a connection betwixt the two avatars!

Actually, I can see the argument of not wanting to catch a bunch of flack over things you may have not had a say in, based on the perceptions of people who weren't there and are arguing from a postion of ignorance on the subject.

That said, I would really love to hear from Big Jim on this site, just on the creative end if the money end holds too many bad memories for him. Who else could provide such insight to the production of modern comics? I think Stan Lee could have at one point, but he's been outta the loop for a while now.

Regardless of how you feel about Shooter, he's one of the all-time heavy hitters of the industry.

Peter Parker · Post by **Peter Parker** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:17 am

A few comments if I may

First, DJ...i'm a stalker, and consider myself quite a normal one at that

also, ...HOBO...Big Jim can talk

..A W E S O M E

I thought he was just a cool action figure with popping muscles?

How about Big Jake his counter part, does he talk as well?

Well, i'm going into my toy chest today and taking out Big Jim for a conversation, i'll let you guys know what he says

X-O HoboJoe · Post by **X-O HoboJoe** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:27 am

Not only can he talk, he's the leader of the WolfP.A.C.K. and he's got a Kung-Fu grip.

Vault-Keeper · Post by **Vault-Keeper** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:44 am

X-O HoboJoe wrote:Not only can he talk, he's the leader of the WolfP.A.C.K. and he's got a Kung-Fu grip.

Stretch Armstrong has them all beat, I tell ya!

prismra · Post by **prismra** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:48 am

I'd even be happy if Jim took 20 minutes to type up a paragraph or two and Greg locked it. I don't really care. I'd just like to hear his comment. He's gotta know we love his work here and value his insight.

Oh well, it may be better if he just doesn't post at all so that he may maintain this god-like status...

X-O HoboJoe · Post by **X-O HoboJoe** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 1:54 pm

But I try so hard to be . . .

charles_yo · Post by **charles_yo** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:54 pm

DawgPhan wrote:
riftt wrote:to broaden the topic a bit - the one disappointing thing I find about this site is that more ex valiant professionals dont contribute. Comic writers and artists generally have a good presense online and they seem to contribute to other forums (like CBR) and I would like to see them come here and shoot the *SQUEE*, apologize for chaos effect and birthquake, talk about art, etc.
I think that there have been a fair number of valiant types that have made their way to this board. More than I would have expected. Of course they are probably going to show up in a place like cbr where they can talk about their current project. Oh and they dont want to have to apologize for birthquake.

Birthquake jokes? Ouch...

Charles Yoakum

jedimarley · Post by **jedimarley** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:58 pm

Don't worry, we don't blame you for Birthquake...... yet

charles_yo · Post by **charles_yo** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 8:09 pm

david_albuq wrote:Yes, but in the case of 24 (a show I watch every week) that show is an on-going process. But with Valiant, we're talking about a company that has been out of business for a lonnnngggg time.

You're not going to change the script of storyline of Valiant by posting messages here. I'm not seeing the connection.

You're correct, but many of us were a sleep deprived mess at the time, and our memory has gotten faulty over time.

Still, I think that it is great to know that people loved and read and have re-read stuff that you pput your heart and sould and time and effort into.

The reality is that some of the artists got into comics and really loved them, and others of them are like actors who couldn't give a *SQUEE* about your favorite movie that you saw them in. It is disheartening to know that Harrision Ford doesn't really like Blade Runner, and it's my favorite film of all time.

I also am reluctant sometimes to tell tales out of school, hurt people's feelings; its a very small industry, and there are people who I think are terrible professionally that I really personally like, so it can be tough. When I've heard that someone has said, "Yeah, I hated Charles' inks on such-and-such" and 6 months earlier they lied ot my face and told me that they liked my work that they had just seen, of course you feel a bit betrayed by all of it.

I think that it's easier if you didn't have a real love of comics sometimes, because I really bled with every issue that had all this potential and I would see it get messed up, slowly and surely, down the line, as all the different hands touched it, and deadlines pressed in, and individual visions conflicted.

If you asked me what issues I did in the business that I was proud of how they printed and went to the consumer (which is totally different then the original art), I'd give you a very short list.

When I look back upon the comics that I loved as a kid and still love now at the tender age 0f 39, I think its a miracle that some good stuff actually gets through. After all, I know how the business works now, and it's brutal on creating good work.

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 8:37 pm

For the record....I didn't start this thread (but I'm very pleased it's taken a life of it's own) for Slim Jim to come along and 'clear the air' about the past...

The ONLY reason I want him to come is because I LIKE what the guy did, and I want to hear him talk about the weather, the state of the industry, why he likes ice cream, and...most importantly....why Paulsmith56 is his hero.

That's it.

No political intrigue.

No 'who dun wut two hoo' chat.

No rehasing old wounds ad inifinitum.

Just because I have a lot of respect for the guy (REGARDLESS of ANYTHING ELSE, he helmed the biggest comic company IN THE WORLD for NINE years, and introduced...or helped along...some of the innovations in the industry that were so revolutionary, we think of as common, everyday things...when we think about their origins at all! Mini-series, graphic novels, the Death of Phoenix, CREATOR IMPRINTS, universes OUTSIDE of and WITHIN universes, Secret Wars II...ok, just kidding about that last one

NONE of these existed...at least at Marvel...and some EVERYWHERE...before Jim Shooter)...oops, I digressed. Where was I? Oh yeah...I have a lot of respect for the guy, and would LOVE to just shoot the shiznit with him.

That's it.

MedicAR · Post by **MedicAR** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 10:52 pm

I'd love for any and all creators to get involved in a project/board like this. We've lost so much accurate history to infighting and claims in the interest of royalties, that we are unlikely to ever hear a truly balanced and accurate version of the early days of comics. The creators left alive are the one who get to write history. I don't dislike Joe Simon or Stan Lee, but I do dislike the way they take credit for half of everything that makes money in the market today. I'd love to have had the opportunity to sit down with Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, Steve Ditko, et al, as a group and have them reminisce about the birth of Marvel. Memories fade, but sitting around and shooting the breeze, even with former adversaries, could clear the air on a lot of subjects. My greatest fear is that it would decline into mud slinging. Hopefully, with a public forum, everyone could remain civil.

Plus, added behind the scenes info can put a new twist on the story telling. If you know where something was going and find out why it didn't get there, you see more in the reading than you would have originally. My best example of this is the Kevin Smith movie "Mallrats." He had to cut the opening scene, which ruined jokes throughout the movie. There was a lot of set up in the cut scene, and without it, there were lines that made no sense. Once I knew that, and even better, got to see that opening scene, there was more to the entire movie that I ever knew before!

The same thing could happen here, if we knew just a bit more from behind the curtain, we may be able to enjoy the show that much more!

whetteon · Post by **whetteon** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 1:10 am

charles_yo, thanks for posting and sharing. You're a brave man!

charles_yo · Post by **charles_yo** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 1:39 am

MagnusRF wrote:Plus, added behind the scenes info can put a new twist on the story telling. If you know where something was going and find out why it didn't get there, you see more in the reading than you would have originally. My best example of this is the Kevin Smith movie "Mallrats." He had to cut the opening scene, which ruined jokes throughout the movie. There was a lot of set up in the cut scene, and without it, there were lines that made no sense. Once I knew that, and even better, got to see that opening scene, there was more to the entire movie that I ever knew before!

The same thing could happen here, if we knew just a bit more from behind the curtain, we may be able to enjoy the show that much more!

Please don't think that I was trying to drag this into another direction, I was simply trying to answer a few of the ideas that had come up along the way to page 4 of the thread. And throw out a few stream of thoughts along the way.

I love the idea of sharing some of the background thoughts along the way behind the comics that you like. One of the first things that i did when I got in the business was to pump some of the guys who had been associated with comics that I love for cool backgrounds stuff (i.e. asking Alan Weiss about Starlin and Milgrom and Englehart since I have a deepest love for Captain Mar-Vell in my heart).

My big love is collecting original art, and when I was at Defiant I walked up to Jim with one of the originals from Avengers #162 (Perez/Marcos) and said, "Bet you haven't seen this in a while." Jim spent the next ten minutes coming up with anedotes about working with George back then, as well as the letterer on those books. Cool stuff.

I would be tough to really go into some of the background stuff because it does still bring up serious feelings, and there will be disagreements that cannot be resolved. While Jack is dead, and I'm making a supposition, I don't think that there can be any question that if Jack and Stan were in a room that there wouldn't be some tension considering how things have turned out. Or Steve and Stan for that matter. Could you get Steve Massarsky, Jim Shooter and Bob Layton in the same room together? You'd need lawyers.

For the record, I came on board at Valiant after Jim had left, but I thought that what happened to Jim there was terrible and completely, completely wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Moving on to the fun stuff....!

myron · Post by **myron** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 8:02 am

Thanks Charles_yo!

Vault-Keeper · Post by **Vault-Keeper** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 9:34 am

GREAT Post, Charles!

I personally would love to hear your stories you are willing to share. Especially about DEFIANT, because it was such a short-lived company.

PS---I believe we met at a Diamond Seminar in 1995...I think...

PSS---there is a great website devoted to DEFIANT (plus Valiant & Broadway). Have you seen it?

http://defiant1.proboards27.com/index.cgi

---Steve

PSSS---Greg, I hope you don't mind me posting the address to the Defiant board. If so, please let me know, & I'll not do it again.

MedicAR · Post by **MedicAR** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:11 am

charles_yo wrote:Please don't think that I was trying to drag this into another direction, I was simply trying to answer a few of the ideas that had come up along the way to page 4 of the thread. And throw out a few stream of thoughts along the way.

Oh, I never meant anything by it, I just wanted to clarify what I wanted to see. In reality, my post was more in repsonse to Zeph, and his comment about Jim "clearing the air." I'm not sure the air could ever be cleared, but hearing all sides woud definitely be interesting!

ValiantFans.com Board - Since 2004

JIM SHOOTER....COME JOIN US! The water's FINE!

Do you wish ol' Slim Jim would contribute to these here boards?