VALIANT April 2013 Sales Discussion

[grendeljd]

Glad to see the pick-up in numbers for the HW related titles, and a strong showing for the mini, I think. The drop off for XO seems rather steep at 2500-ish copies...

And hey, not to distract from discussing Valiant numbers, but holy crap what happened to DC this month?! Only 27% market share? Seems to me they were at least carving out a number in the low-mid 30% range... Are people shying away from their books due to all the bad press they are getting lately? Wow.

[BugsySig]

Glad to see the pick-up in numbers for the HW related titles, and a strong showing for the mini, I think. The drop off for XO seems rather steep at 2500-ish copies...

And hey, not to distract from discussing Valiant numbers, but holy crap what happened to DC this month?! Only 27% market share? Seems to me they were at least carving out a number in the low-mid 30% range... Are people shying away from their books due to all the bad press they are getting lately? Wow.

Well, XO got a big boost last month with the start of Planet Death, so the dip isn't surprising.

That's the second month in a row DC is below 30%. Back to pre-new 52 numbers. All that artificial boost had to fade eventually.

[grendeljd]

Glad to see the pick-up in numbers for the HW related titles, and a strong showing for the mini, I think. The drop off for XO seems rather steep at 2500-ish copies...

And hey, not to distract from discussing Valiant numbers, but holy crap what happened to DC this month?! Only 27% market share? Seems to me they were at least carving out a number in the low-mid 30% range... Are people shying away from their books due to all the bad press they are getting lately? Wow.

Well, XO got a big boost last month with the start of Planet Death, so the dip isn't surprising.

That's the second month in a row DC is below 30%. Back to pre-new 52 numbers. All that artificial boost had to fade eventually.

I am not generally one to pay attention to sales figures, and only follow the Valiant book #'s in these threads out of interest in seeing success happening for the VEI guys. I figured DC & Marvel were always fairly close, even though I was always more of a Marvel fan than DC.

But you make a valid point - by now a lot of drop-off would be attributed to the strangely natural cycle of disinterest that seems to creep into titles that go past numbering in the teens... >sigh< what has happened to the industry? The whole system seems to have succumbed to a viscous inbred circle of ever-shorter reboot/relaunch cycles that are probably doing more harm than good in the long run...

I really don't understand why its so hard for people to just try jumping onto a book that looks cool, regardless of it having a long history or high number. I never cared about that growing up on comics - I just got into whatever looked cool and started having fun tracking down more older issues to get more story...

I sound like a 'geezer now,

End

[lorddunlow]

Glad to see the pick-up in numbers for the HW related titles, and a strong showing for the mini, I think. The drop off for XO seems rather steep at 2500-ish copies...

And hey, not to distract from discussing Valiant numbers, but holy crap what happened to DC this month?! Only 27% market share? Seems to me they were at least carving out a number in the low-mid 30% range... Are people shying away from their books due to all the bad press they are getting lately? Wow.

Well, XO got a big boost last month with the start of Planet Death, so the dip isn't surprising.

That's the second month in a row DC is below 30%. Back to pre-new 52 numbers. All that artificial boost had to fade eventually.

I am not generally one to pay attention to sales figures, and only follow the Valiant book #'s in these threads out of interest in seeing success happening for the VEI guys. I figured DC & Marvel were always fairly close, even though I was always more of a Marvel fan than DC.

But you make a valid point - by now a lot of drop-off would be attributed to the strangely natural cycle of disinterest that seems to creep into titles that go past numbering in the teens... >sigh< what has happened to the industry? The whole system seems to have succumbed to a viscous inbred circle of ever-shorter reboot/relaunch cycles that are probably doing more harm than good in the long run...

I really don't understand why its so hard for people to just try jumping onto a book that looks cool, regardless of it having a long history or high number. I never cared about that growing up on comics - I just got into whatever looked cool and started having fun tracking down more older issues to get more story...

I sound like a 'geezer now,

End

Preach, brother!

[MarkRoseHFX]

Glad to see the pick-up in numbers for the HW related titles, and a strong showing for the mini, I think. The drop off for XO seems rather steep at 2500-ish copies...

And hey, not to distract from discussing Valiant numbers, but holy crap what happened to DC this month?! Only 27% market share? Seems to me they were at least carving out a number in the low-mid 30% range... Are people shying away from their books due to all the bad press they are getting lately? Wow.

Well, XO got a big boost last month with the start of Planet Death, so the dip isn't surprising.

That's the second month in a row DC is below 30%. Back to pre-new 52 numbers. All that artificial boost had to fade eventually.

that definitely says something about the quality of books they are putting out imo.

[cdgodin]

If you actually think about it, there are probably few, if any, new readers with each new story arc. The retailers likely just order more due to the 1:50 variants and stuff like that

[BugsySig]

If you actually think about it, there are probably few, if any, new readers with each new story arc. The retailers likely just order more due to the 1:50 variants and stuff like that

True. Most of the books leveled out by the end of the second arc or before. The boost in sales here and there (other than some of the crossover appeal for Harby Wars) is likely due to 1:50s, etc. Though some new readers may try out a new arc that is hyped up like Planet Death, its more likely a new reader would seek out a trade if they were really interested. Thats what Id do.

[greg]

There will be some count of people for each type of situation you can imagine.

Mentioned so far:
Those who only read trades.
Those who only read monthlies.
Those who order more for the 1:50 incentives.

... but there's also...

Those who read a trade, liked it, and now want the current monthlies.

[BugsySig]

There will be some count of people for each type of situation you can imagine.

Mentioned so far:
Those who only read trades.
Those who only read monthlies.
Those who order more for the 1:50 incentives.

... but there's also...

Those who read a trade, liked it, and now want the current monthlies.

That's the group that will be very important for VEI's potential growth. We probably haven't seen much of them yet as the first trades have just been released for each book. I think the second trades will be even more key because as good as the books have been from the beginning, the second arcs all improved (and Shadowman is improving) on the first. I mean, how could anyone read "Renegades" in trade and not want to buy that book monthly?

[lorddunlow]

Speaking of people reading the trades, my LCS doesn't overstock much VEI at all (i.e. there are virtually no back issues to be had a month later), but he has kept the VEI trades prominently displayed and they seem to be moving (I go one week and see 2-3 copies of a trade, next week one or none, then the next week he's got 3 out again). This bodes well, I think.

[greg]

Speaking of people reading the trades, my LCS doesn't overstock much VEI at all (i.e. there are virtually no back issues to be had a month later), but he has kept the VEI trades prominently displayed and they seem to be moving (I go one week and see 2-3 copies of a trade, next week one or none, then the next week he's got 3 out again). This bodes well, I think.

It's my understanding that the trades have done very well... better than expected.
The first month of sales are reported, but the trades continue to sell in the following months.
After a few months, the total sold can be significantly higher than that first month.

For the monthly books, the total eventually sold is usually around the first month plus 10% to 50%.

Trades have easily doubled their first month, and still keep going.

[BugsySig]

Speaking of people reading the trades, my LCS doesn't overstock much VEI at all (i.e. there are virtually no back issues to be had a month later), but he has kept the VEI trades prominently displayed and they seem to be moving (I go one week and see 2-3 copies of a trade, next week one or none, then the next week he's got 3 out again). This bodes well, I think.

It's my understanding that the trades have done very well... better than expected.
The first month of sales are reported, but the trades continue to sell in the following months.
After a few months, the total sold can be significantly higher than that first month.

For the monthly books, the total eventually sold is usually around the first month plus 10% to 50%.

Trades have easily doubled their first month, and still keep going.

I am consistently amazed at some of the trade sales when I look at the monthly numbers...TWD Vol 1 still crushes it month to month. Trades have to be at least half of Image's revenue, if not more, and all the publishers below VEI in the top 10 sell trades and GNs almost exclusively. VEI sold over 3k TPBs in April...that's over $30k in revenue (minus Diamond and retailer cut, of course) just from two trades.

[greg]

I am consistently amazed at some of the trade sales when I look at the monthly numbers...TWD Vol 1 still crushes it month to month. Trades have to be at least half of Image's revenue, if not more, and all the publishers below VEI in the top 10 sell trades and GNs almost exclusively. VEI sold over 3k TPBs in April...that's over $30k in revenue (minus Diamond and retailer cut, of course) just from two trades.

The key positive from that information is that the trades contained no new creative material.

$30k in revenue for $0 new creative cost.
And neither of the April trades is done making revenue.

[BugsySig]

I am consistently amazed at some of the trade sales when I look at the monthly numbers...TWD Vol 1 still crushes it month to month. Trades have to be at least half of Image's revenue, if not more, and all the publishers below VEI in the top 10 sell trades and GNs almost exclusively. VEI sold over 3k TPBs in April...that's over $30k in revenue (minus Diamond and retailer cut, of course) just from two trades.

The key positive from that information is that the trades contained no new creative material.

$30k in revenue for $0 new creative cost.
And neither of the April trades is done making revenue.

Probably the argument behind not including new stories in the Masters Collections, as well. Not that most of us support that decision.

[greg]

Probably the argument behind not including new stories in the Masters Collections, as well. Not that most of us support that decision.

Not sure on that one.

There's both a dollar cost and a time cost for including new material.

Even if the dollar cost would eventually be offset, there might be a time deadline that can't be met if new material is added.

Or... if you follow the Star Wars model... you don't add the special features until after people buy the basic.

[grendeljd]

I sound like a 'geezer now,

End

Preach, brother!

Do you wish to hear The Word, or are you already in the choir, brother Josh?

[shadow5555]

That's the second month in a row DC is below 30%. Back to pre-new 52 numbers. All that artificial boost had to fade eventually.

I think Trinity War and Man of Steel will drive some sales for DC, but yeah the overal line isn't doing much for me, plus way too much creative team shifting.

Those who read a trade, liked it, and now want the current monthlies.

That's the group that will be very important for VEI's potential growth. We probably haven't seen much of them yet as the first trades have just been released for each book. I think the second trades will be even more key because as good as the books have been from the beginning, the second arcs all improved (and Shadowman is improving) on the first. I mean, how could anyone read "Renegades" in trade and not want to buy that book monthly?

Unless they look at prices of $10 (discounted Amazon TPB price) vs. $15-ish with LCS 10% off (on average for pulls) that's a signifigant amount for anyone to consider, even with liking a book, I'd love to read more Harbinger now (my Amazon review of all of the Vol. 1 trades should be up now) and it was nothing but high praise, because it was that good. But based on that will that alone drive me back into the LCS to pick a monthly up. Not really, I'm planning to go in clean my pull out, grab a few #0 valiant issues and probably get Harbinger Wars and they won't see me for months again (by then Vol. 2 trades will be out and Vol. 3 solicited)

Comics buying from when we all were younger and used to go in every week or two is much different than today. With digital sales, and online retailers being so huge.

And as far as archival material, if they didn't include anyting new, I can pretty much tell you I wouldn't be buying them, as so far while I'm having fun re-reading Bloodshot with VanHook and Perlin, the paper quality is less than what the originals were on and feels cheap, and the Ninjak HC, makes me wonder why I bought it, never a favorite character, but it has some new material, so I guess it was more of a completionist thing there, but I'm waiting for Shadowman beause of the new Bob Hall material. So yeah remove that from the equation (new material) and that takes a lot of incentive for us old timers to even bother to pick them up. Sad, but true fact. (I can see the Masters line tanking without that material which would make digitial only the main option for new readers wanting the classic valiant, and probably cheaper for VEI if they ever manage to get the rights to reprint Magnus, Solar and Turok, which will also affect any Rai, X-O and other collections, unless they already have the rights to do so, which voids this sentence)

So with my previous post, keep the new material coming out, don't grow to fast and don't bring new titles out that might not have broad appeal (some of these next wave titles concern me). But then again I'm not running the place, just an old fan, who wants them to succeed (like everyone else), but I'm also a consumer and want them to know what I'll buy and what I don't want to help them make informed decisions, anyway, enough soapbox for now.

[jmatt]

I am consistently amazed at some of the trade sales when I look at the monthly numbers...

With the decompression of storytelling, trades just read better. You don't forget details you read 30 or 60 or 90 days ago.