Shadowman #4 Discussion

[BugsySig]

And after Harada in Harbinger, and the 1% in Archer & Armstrong, the introduction of yet another secret cabal of people of wealth and influence felt like a retread.

I'm okay with more villainous entities. We have a singular villain in Darque and a minion in Twist. A different villainous cabal just adds more variety. I'd have been disappointed if it was the 1% showing up in another title.

But I do take issue that VEI seems intent on making so many foes be industrialists, so I'm in agreement with you there. It's like the place has been staffed by Occupy Wall Street. I sense a trend.

Not much different from VH1: Harada, Iwatsu, etc.

[carter3175]

I hate to say this but I too had a lot of faith in Shadowman and I do not feel like its living up to expectations. I do not read this book 1st anymore, I read it just before Archer & Armstrong. I think I would rather see Shadowman as a dark brooding character in a horror setting. I am not dropping it because I will support Valiant but this needs a kick in that *SQUEE*. These are just my opinions. My reading order:
Harbinger
Bloodshot
X-O
Shadowman
Archer & Armstrong

[MarrowMan]

A lot of the new Valiant Villains won't age too well, with the exception of Harada, Darque and The Vine. The 1% and other industry type evil doers will get dated very quickly.

[somewhatlazy]

A lot of the new Valiant Villains won't age too well, with the exception of Harada, Darque and The Vine. The 1% and other industry type evil doers will get dated very quickly.

I don't know about that. "The evil corporation" type seems to be a timeless antagonist.

[hawkeyeps]

Props to Pixierosa for making this observation back on Dec.27-

Nice point on the twist name play. Also, some call spellcasting a "twist" (twist a spell), and since Darque created him, he essentially twisted Mr. Twist.

Twist was the spell, "Mr.Spell"

Nailed it

[jmatt]

Not much different from VH1: Harada, Iwatsu, etc.

Fair enough. They just seemed to go out of their way to point out the 'industrial' nature of the cabal members with the little "Shipbuilding" and "Chemical Magnate" panel pointers.

When Dr. Silk held a confab with the members of his evil clique, it was merely sufficient that the reader assume they were powerful people with bad intentions, we were not treated to pointers stating what nefarious industry they ruled.

[jmatt]

I hate to say this but I too had a lot of faith in Shadowman and I do not feel like its living up to expectations. ... I think I would rather see Shadowman as a dark brooding character in a horror setting.

I'm kind of in agreement, it feels too set-piece and has since the start. VH1 Shadowman started rather innocently and built up toward it's oeuvre. This feels like I walked in on a movie two-thirds of the way over.

But I'm happy to see how they flesh it out in the coming months. We just need a lot more character and a lot less back-story (but the Shadowmobile has me nervous that we're in for more of the latter than the former...)

[Carson]

I'm not sure why I picked this up Wednesday ad haven't read it yet. Hour commute to my new job, basketball game last night, but still, you'd think I would've carved out 30 minutes to soak this up already. Hope that doesn't mean I'm not loving the book. It's pretty. Maybe twist does annoy me after reading 3 issues. I dunno. I resolve to read #4 tomorrow and return with my thoughts.

[ShadowTuga]

Props to Pixierosa for making this observation back on Dec.27-

Nice point on the twist name play. Also, some call spellcasting a "twist" (twist a spell), and since Darque created him, he essentially twisted Mr. Twist.

Twist was the spell, "Mr.Spell"

Nailed it

And that was a cool twist, no pun intended.

[Stringer]

Twist was really cheesy in this issue, Jack had some corny one liners, and the whole interaction between Dox and everyone else was pretty bad.

Although I disagree about Twist, I must concur about the somewhat corny one liners Shadowman has at times. I think there's some room for improvement on that front.

Props to Pixierosa for making this observation back on Dec.27-

Nice point on the twist name play. Also, some call spellcasting a "twist" (twist a spell), and since Darque created him, he essentially twisted Mr. Twist.

Twist was the spell, "Mr.Spell"

Nailed it

Indeed, that was a pretty good deduction.

[Bone-A-Fach-ee]

I thought SM #4 was better than the beginning of SM.

So that is good.

Agreed. Best SM issue so far IMO.

[Bone-A-Fach-ee]

I liked it! The groundwork has been laid and the story is starting to flesh out nicely. I wanted to keep reading. And btw, I'm very disappointed in Jaunty. I thought he was helping Josiah by bring Jack to him, but now his allegiance seems to be to Darque. But perhaps he has no allegiance at all. Just what exactly is he?

I think Jaunty is a good monkey trapped in a place he doesn't want to be, just doing what he can to not get on Darque's bad side. He struck me to be in a predicament, not really one of Darque's "believers" or whatever. Could be an interesting character in the issues to come...

[Dallow Spicer1]

I hate to say this but I too had a lot of faith in Shadowman and I do not feel like its living up to expectations. ... I think I would rather see Shadowman as a dark brooding character in a horror setting.

I'm kind of in agreement, it feels too set-piece and has since the start. VH1 Shadowman started rather innocently and built up toward it's oeuvre. This feels like I walked in on a movie two-thirds of the way over.

But I'm happy to see how they flesh it out in the coming months. We just need a lot more character and a lot less back-story (but the Shadowmobile has me nervous that we're in for more of the latter than the former...)

I usually get a bit more out of Shadowman on the 2nd read (which I haven't done yet). This issue was ok but I agree that I'd prefer to see it more dark, horror-esque which I think would give the title a bit more unique-ness in the current VEI universe. Not sure how I'd define the genre of this book to a non-Valiant reader and maybe that's part of the problem. It's too wise-cracking to be a 'serious' horror book but then I'm not sure I'd describe it as 'superhero' either?

It's only 4 issues in, so early days yet, I'd like the next arc to flesh out more of Jack's personality. At the moment I'm fairly neutral about him, don't feel too much of a connection. But that could change.

Shadowmobile? Did I miss a preview somewhere?

[Stringer]

Shadowmobile? Did I miss a preview somewhere?

He's referring to the cover of Shadowman #0. Click here.

[greg]

Shadowmobile? Did I miss a preview somewhere?

He's referring to the cover of Shadowman #0. Click here.

That's Jack's daddy (and grandpa), I presume.
Both had cars which would have been "common" in their day... still cool, but not necessarily anything special.

[Dallow Spicer1]

Shadowmobile? Did I miss a preview somewhere?

He's referring to the cover of Shadowman #0. Click here.

That's Jack's daddy (and grandpa), I presume.
Both had cars which would have been "common" in their day... still cool, but not necessarily anything special.

ahhh I see, thanks fellas!

[Stringer]

Sure thing, you're welcome man. ^^

That's Jack's daddy (and grandpa), I presume.
Both had cars which would have been "common" in their day... still cool, but not necessarily anything special.

Yep, I think so too. The car model is a bit too old to be Jack's.

[hawkeyeps]

Jack will have a modern Shadowmobile....a Smart Car

He won't look as cool but it will be easier to park.

[chriskay99]

Twist was really cheesy in this issue, Jack had some corny one liners, and the whole interaction between Dox and everyone else was pretty bad.

Although I disagree about Twist, I must concur about the somewhat corny one liners Shadowman has at times. I think there's some room for improvement on that front.

Glad I wasn't the only one who felt this way about the one liners. It really bugged me on the first read through but not as much on the second. It feels like they want to have Jack just say something in the panel but it ends up cheesy. Hoping they are just working out the kinks. I would rather have a wordless battle than an attempt at banter.

[jmatt]

... I agree that I'd prefer to see it more dark, horror-esque which I think would give the title a bit more unique-ness in the current VEI universe. Not sure how I'd define the genre of this book to a non-Valiant reader and maybe that's part of the problem. It's too wise-cracking to be a 'serious' horror book but then I'm not sure I'd describe it as 'superhero' either?

It's only 4 issues in, so early days yet, I'd like the next arc to flesh out more of Jack's personality. At the moment I'm fairly neutral about him, don't feel too much of a connection.

I've asked repeatedly that VEI re-invent the titles so they're not a rehash of VH1, so I can't complain all that much.

But the original was all voodoo and cemeteries and bayou and gators and the French Quarter and I kinda miss that because it was so different than everything else that was out there.

We also had a ton of Jack's inner monologue as he talked about playing freeform, fight 'improvisation', self-doubt, questioning his plight, etc. We haven't seen much of either of those yet, and I hope we do.

Jack was the Bayou Batman and I liked it.

But as you note, it's still very early in the run and I'm sure we'll see more of Jack Boniface, the man.

[Carson]

Art = amazing. Absolutely gorgeous. I FEEL like I'm in dead side.

Writing = ok. Agree that Jack's lines seem forced. Honestly, I'm tired of hearing so much from the abettors and so little from Jack. I want to get to know him already.

Twist = I'm glad he's gone (for now).

Darque = perfectly creepy. Can't wait for the next arc to see more of him.

VH1 vs VEI = I miss the night, the voodoo and the Netie parts. But oh well, definitely don't want exact retreads of VH1. Maybe the abettors and their magic will grow on me.

Summary: Not a bad intro arc, but I really didn't like twist in his silly white suit that never stained until his head was chopped off. I won't miss him. Beautiful art. I hope the character building catches up to the art on the next arc.

[pixierosa]

Props to Pixierosa for making this observation back on Dec.27-

Nice point on the twist name play. Also, some call spellcasting a "twist" (twist a spell), and since Darque created him, he essentially twisted Mr. Twist.

Twist was the spell, "Mr.Spell"

Nailed it

Thank ya I'm looking forward to seeing and hearing more from Jack himself. We're starting to get the background on the abettors, and I'm sure the zero issue will elaborate on this, but we do need to see more of Jack or Jack's inner thoughts so readers will care about him. We don't know much about him personally. I remember seeing jazz posters on his walls, but we don't know what his passions are or how they will affect his Shadowman.

I agree that Jaunty probably plays all sides in order to get by. Wonder if he has an ulterior motive himself.

Anyone read the interview in Bleeding Cool mag?

[Shadowman99]

Poor li'l Jaunty. I'm certain he was just doing his best not to step on Darque's toes. But, having said that, we were left with Darque ordering Jaunty to help him out, so it'll be interesting to see what comes of that the next time Darque appears. Jaunty seems here nor there to me - just ambling helplessly through the Deadside making the best of it.

I think we're getting a lot of the Abettors at the moment simply for the sake of *explaining* how everything works for the reader, specifically for those that haven't read Shadowman before or aren't familiar with it for whatever reason, and there's no way that's a bad thing. As stated at the end of issue #4, be prepared for a lot of dialogue from them next time you see them.

Shadowman himself I feel has been slightly disappointingly quiet so far. Having said that, now he's embraced the Loa and is about to 'enrol in Shadowman school' with the help of the Abettors, there'll be a lot more room for introspection and character building once he and the readers are up to par with his skills and abilities, and I'm sure the stories will get a lot broader too.

We can only expect big things from Darque in the future (happily), and if we've seen the last of Twist for good, then naturally he'll be replaced at one point or another by a new ace baddy, so personally I'd welcome the new open slot to see what fills it next.

The industrialists... They've barely been touched upon yet, so I'm sure it'll become apparent soon enough if they're a branch of The Sect or an independant group.

The art is still kicking solid butt in my opinion, and they one liners... They're amusing to read, but they're starting to put the comic on this sort of weird 'fence' between styles and are confusing the matter a bit. Personally I'd like Shadowman (both the comic and the characters) become a lot darker and get further into the horror genre, and really get downright spooky. Along with that, I'm really enjoying the supernatural nature of the comic so far, and the longer the comic stays in that region, the more I think it'll benefit from being a very different facet of the Valiant gem, in comparison to what the other lines are offering.

[cavemold]

Jack will have a modern Shadowmobile....a Smart Car

He won't look as cool but it will be easier to park.

[manga4life]

I just re-read this issue and I still feel it was kind of weak even though I enjoyed it much more the second time around, I just feel as though the dialogue was really off and a tad corny. I'm also sad to see Mr. twist go since I'm assuming he's dead after what went down in this issue, he was a great villain and I'm sorry to see him go.