ARCHER & ARMSTRONG 5 Discussion

[Kurokashi-san]

I know Gilad is immortal, but how was he surviving underwater all this time without oxygen?

That may have something to do with the fact that he's immortal.

Yes, but the lack of oxygen should cause damage to his brain despite the fact he can’t be killed.

Perhaps it did... maybe that's why he's such a *SQUEE*

[orbitalshift]

I know Gilad is immortal, but how was he surviving underwater all this time without oxygen?

That may have something to do with the fact that he's immortal.

Yes, but the lack of oxygen should cause damage to his brain despite the fact he can’t be killed.

Perhaps it did... maybe that's why he's such a *SQUEE*

Yeah, gotta love the logic that Armstrong gets winded running from Gilad, yet Gilad can chase them from the bottom of the ocean.

[KXXX]

I know Gilad is immortal, but how was he surviving underwater all this time without oxygen?

That may have something to do with the fact that he's immortal.

Yes, but the lack of oxygen should cause damage to his brain despite the fact he can’t be killed.

Perhaps it did... maybe that's why he's such a *SQUEE*

Yeah, gotta love the logic that Armstrong gets winded running from Gilad, yet Gilad can chase them from the bottom of the ocean.

We get it, you don't like the book.

It's just that though: a book. I always wonder at what determines the point at which an individual draws the line where they stop believing things in a work of fiction.

As for the point of Gilad being underwater... I can't remember whether or not he was in a shipping container that was submerged in water or filled with water, nor how long it was indicated (if it was) he remained there. I would imagine it safe to say that if he couldn't breath for an extended period of time his body may be capable of healing itself in that capacity. Armstrong grew new eyes.

As for Armstrong being winded, well... he's a fatso. It happens.

[MarkRoseHFX]

I know I am in the minority here, but FVL has managed to all but ruin my favorite corner of the Valiant universe. So far he has ruined Archer, Armstrong, The Sect, Ivar, Buck McHenry, and now Gilad. I'm sure he will turn our new Geomancer into charmless caricature also. The rest of the books I have really enjoyed, but I just wish this series would have never happened. I do like the art work, the only positive part of the issue for me. I have no idea how anyone who read the original A&A, could read this series and think it is anything but drivel. Compare Eternal Warrior 6 & 7 to the past two issues of A&A and you will see how insipid this book is.

whether the opinion is popular or not it's cool that you express it

Curious though because you're kind of vague, what makes you say that all those characters are ruined? Can you give some examples?

[BugsySig]

I know Gilad is immortal, but how was he surviving underwater all this time without oxygen?

That may have something to do with the fact that he's immortal.

Yes, but the lack of oxygen should cause damage to his brain despite the fact he can’t be killed.

Perhaps it did... maybe that's why he's such a *SQUEE*

Yeah, gotta love the logic that Armstrong gets winded running from Gilad, yet Gilad can chase them from the bottom of the ocean.

We get it, you don't like the book.

It's just that though: a book. I always wonder at what determines the point at which an individual draws the line where they stop believing things in a work of fiction.

As for the point of Gilad being underwater... I can't remember whether or not he was in a shipping container that was submerged in water or filled with water, nor how long it was indicated (if it was) he remained there. I would imagine it safe to say that if he couldn't breath for an extended period of time his body may be capable of healing itself in that capacity. Armstrong grew new eyes.

As for Armstrong being winded, well... he's a fatso. It happens.

1 - I didn't take it as he was walking across the bottom of the ocean after them. Just an image to show he was still on their trail as he made his way out of the container.

2 - He is the man the Earth won't let die...You think a little water is gonna bother him?

3 - Just because Aram was winded doesn't mean he still couldn't run til his lungs exploded. He's immortal and his body would heal. Just like EW under water.

[Zaphod]

We get it, you don't like the book.

It's just that though: a book. I always wonder at what determines the point at which an individual draws the line where they stop believing things in a work of fiction.

As for the point of Gilad being underwater... I can't remember whether or not he was in a shipping container that was submerged in water or filled with water, nor how long it was indicated (if it was) he remained there. I would imagine it safe to say that if he couldn't breath for an extended period of time his body may be capable of healing itself in that capacity. Armstrong grew new eyes.

As for Armstrong being winded, well... he's a fatso. It happens.

I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I'd like to respond. The wonderful thing about the original Valiant universe and it's characters is that it was very much based on "A world outside of our window". Now of course, that is rather b.s. but they tried to straddle the line of being "science fiction" rather than delving into "science fantasy"

There are a lot of "funny" books out there that I can get into if I want something less serious or more fantastical.

I don't think there is a lot to be asked for someone to want the characters they loved to live in a world that is more plausible and less "cartoony" than has been offered.

I'm not worried about the rest of the VEI universe, but this title (until FVL is replaced or changes his tone of the book) is out for me.

For those who love it and are enjoying it, I don't intend to try and ruin what you enjoy. But this is a message board and opinions will be shared. Feelings will be hurt, a goat show up too.

[hawkeyeps]

We get it, you don't like the book.

It's just that though: a book. I always wonder at what determines the point at which an individual draws the line where they stop believing things in a work of fiction.

As for the point of Gilad being underwater... I can't remember whether or not he was in a shipping container that was submerged in water or filled with water, nor how long it was indicated (if it was) he remained there. I would imagine it safe to say that if he couldn't breath for an extended period of time his body may be capable of healing itself in that capacity. Armstrong grew new eyes.

As for Armstrong being winded, well... he's a fatso. It happens.

I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I'd like to respond. The wonderful thing about the original Valiant universe and it's characters is that it was very much based on "A world outside of our window". Now of course, that is rather b.s. but they tried to straddle the line of being "science fiction" rather than delving into "science fantasy"

There are a lot of "funny" books out there that I can get into if I want something less serious or more fantastical.

I don't think there is a lot to be asked for someone to want the characters they loved to live in a world that is more plausible and less "cartoony" than has been offered.

I'm not worried about the rest of the VEI universe, but this title (until FVL is replaced or changes his tone of the book) is out for me.

For those who love it and are enjoying it, I don't intend to try and ruin what you enjoy. But this is a message board and opinions will be shared. Feelings will be hurt, a goat show up too.

I hear you man, FVL is tepid at best. I am very excited by the newer writters like Venditti, Dysart, Jordan and Zircher and Swiercynski seems to be pulling it off pretty good with Bloodshot.

The A&A books have been good so far but then again FVL has a pretty great toy box and fantastic art from Clayton Henry, I have read a lot of his stuff from Marvel and some of it just plain *SQUEE* me off. As far as VALIANT's writting stable goes I would easily put him at the bottom of the list, there's a couple zippy one liners here and there and some funny moments but to me the stories seem somehow truncated bordering on cartoonish.

I don't think that does justice to what is happening in the other books and the care taking of this very important part of the VALIANT universe.

I liked the subtle sophisticated situational humor of the orignal, I don't like to see it veer off to goofy. Considering it was a well hyped Eternal Warrior debut I thought it could have definetly been better.

If you're a goat, I'm the troll under the bridge

[ShadowTuga]

Wow, never thought that other people hated the book this much.

I never read the BWS run, so I have no comparison to make: this version, I LOVED IT. And I'm VERY glad that VEI is having the balls to put this outrageous comic in the shelves every month. Since issue 1, it's quality really improved and it's my 3rd favourite VEI title, right now- after Harbinger and X-O, WHO ARE BOTH KILLING IT.

[pixierosa]

Sometimes it is a little cartoonish, but other times the writing is more realistic or serious in nature. Think about Mary Maria saying goodbye to Archer in #1, and how he viewed the world outside. Of the confrontation between Archer and Mary Maria, their loyalities to each other and to the "family". The death of Tommy or the final scene between she and Archer. There's lots of serious moments and the writing touches on these emotions -- although some of it is portrayed moreso in the art rather than in words. I'm thinking of that excellent art sonicdan has of Archer & Mary Maria in #3 pg 14 - lots of emotion there.

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My point is it isn't all fluff, but the story sometimes gets overshadowed by the sillier aspects.

[400yrs]

Wow, never thought that other people hated the book this much.

I never read the BWS run, so I have no comparison to make: this version, I LOVED IT. And I'm VERY glad that VEI is having the balls to put this outrageous comic in the shelves every month. Since issue 1, it's quality really improved and it's my 3rd favourite VEI title, right now- after Harbinger and X-O, WHO ARE BOTH KILLING IT.

I can see how people who hold the BWS run in high regard aren't liking it, but this book is good. It's probably receiving the most critical praise of all the books on all the comic web sites. It's a book that is appealing to non-hardcore Valiant fans as there really isn't a good buddy/comedy book out there right now.

I personally love the cartoony style. If they tried to out-BWS BWS, how do you think that would've turned out?

[hawkeyeps]

I just feel FVL is not rising to the level of his peers, no doubt Clayton Henry is a "Boon" but at the end of the day we need the best stories, that's what Valiant is all about.

The big debut of EW shouldn't read like Road Runner and Coyote. "Oh that's my Bro, he's just nuts like that cause the Geomancer accidentally died...WakkaWakka."

Come on Man!

[400yrs]

I just feel FVL is not rising to the level of his peers, no doubt Clayton Henry is a "Boon" but at the end of the day we need the best stories, that's what Valiant is all about.

The big debut of EW shouldn't read like Road Runner and Coyote. "Oh that's my Bro, he's just nuts like that cause the Geomancer accidentally died...WakkaWakka."

Come on Man!

I can't disagree with that at all. The EW not being more than a *SQUEE* off dude wasn't what I thought I'd be reading at all.

[pixierosa]

I just feel FVL is not rising to the level of his peers, no doubt Clayton Henry is a "Boon" but at the end of the day we need the best stories, that's what Valiant is all about.

The big debut of EW shouldn't read like Road Runner and Coyote. "Oh that's my Bro, he's just nuts like that cause the Geomancer accidentally died...WakkaWakka."

Come on Man!

I can't disagree with that at all. The EW not being more than a *SQUEE* off dude wasn't what I thought I'd be reading at all.

Based on reviews, I was expecting worse, tbh. It read better than I expected, but EW wasn't a fully developed as should be. Has to be more to him than beast mode. Still, this was probably my least favorite A&A book, whereas I thought it might be the opposite.

[Donovan]

I'm no oceanographer, but I don't think the ocean right next to shore is all that deep. Check out the last page, panel 2. EW feet, and the boat carrying A&A. He's really not all that deep.

Check that panel out before we all get TOO carried away about EW swimming up from the bottom of the Marianas Trench. Yeesh.

[Donovan]

I know this is just a comic book but the BWS run of A&A never felt so "comic bookey".

I loved the BWS A&A run. In fact, I hold it in such high regard that I am confident that NO ONE could write these characters and come close to the awesomeness that was the original 0-12. NO ONE. It'll never happen.

As such, I'm glad that Valiant is doing their own take. Ruining it? pffft.

Gilad was never just some mindless, killing machine.

Gilad has been around for ONE ISSUE. Give it time!

[hawkeyeps]

I just feel FVL is not rising to the level of his peers, no doubt Clayton Henry is a "Boon" but at the end of the day we need the best stories, that's what Valiant is all about.

The big debut of EW shouldn't read like Road Runner and Coyote. "Oh that's my Bro, he's just nuts like that cause the Geomancer accidentally died...WakkaWakka."

Come on Man!

I can't disagree with that at all. The EW not being more than a *SQUEE* off dude wasn't what I thought I'd be reading at all.

Based on reviews, I was expecting worse, tbh. It read better than I expected, but EW wasn't a fully developed as should be. Has to be more to him than beast mode. Still, this was probably my least favorite A&A book, whereas I thought it might be the opposite.

Exactly, this was a debut of a major character and FVL seems to have just mailed it in to meet the assignment.

If you don't want to be in the club house and can't be bothered to give your best get the *SQUEE* out

We'll see where this goes but if this turns out to be few more months of nyuk-nyuk, I'm out and that would really *SQUEE* me off as this is a major piece of VALIANT.

For me this is the worst VEI issue to date and that's no slight to Luppachino who was over all good all though not quite as good as Henry IMO.

[pixierosa]

For me this is the worst VEI issue to date and that's no slight to Luppachino who was over all good all though not quite as good as Henry IMO.

I agree there. She's a good artist, no doubt, but my personal preference is for Clayton Henry.

[Zaphod]

Gilad was never just some mindless, killing machine.

Gilad has been around for ONE ISSUE. Give it time!

That is one issue too many to have Gilad be a one dimensional killing thing. It's not the original and I'm fine with that. 12 issues doesn't really forgive the 14 issues that came after BWS left. I am not looking for a retread but it's hokey that "The Earth" brought back "The Fist and The Steel" to avenge the death of a Geomancer...and somehow the accident that claimed this Geomancers life is Archers fault.



It was just bad.

[Savant]

I just feel FVL is not rising to the level of his peers, no doubt Clayton Henry is a "Boon" but at the end of the day we need the best stories, that's what Valiant is all about.

The big debut of EW shouldn't read like Road Runner and Coyote. "Oh that's my Bro, he's just nuts like that cause the Geomancer accidentally died...WakkaWakka."

Come on Man!

I disagree about FVL not rising to the level of his peers, as I loved the previous issues, but I do agree that this month's issue wasn't all that great. Definitely the worst issue of A&A so far, and "Road Runner and Coyote" is an apt comparison to what went on.....But, I didn't think the issue was horrible, nor do I see it as the worst Valiant issue in its current incarnation. I simply found A&A #5 to be average at best.

Also, I far prefer Clayton Henry over Lupacchino, based on this one issue alone.

[BugsySig]

I wonder if Gilad is tied emotionally to the Earth. If the Earth was enraged by the death of the Geomancer, and Gilad has some kind of empathy with the Earth, then it could explain the actions here. Since he can't actually talk to the Earth, he has only the base emotion to go off of.

Armstrong says he'll calm down when they find and [lets say for lack of a better word] "activate" the new Geomancer. Then the Earth will calm and return to balance, and so would Gilly.

Just a theory. I kinda like the "force of nature" concept for EW, but his total irrationality has to be explained more and be a situational thing.

I will say this was probably my least or second least favorite issue from VEI thus far.

[Newton]

My only complaint about A&A so far is just the fluctuation in tone. At times I read an entire issue and it feels like I am reading a serious title and others a cartoon. I always enjoy it and find it entertaining, but I think it is still having trouble establishing the right balance (no easy feat you have to admit though).

I am excited to see Gilad and Geomancers back. I like that they are being re-introduced together. I always thought the geomancer (+ Eternal Warrior) was one of the best concepts from VH1 and was the glue that made it all work. Think of how big of a part Geoff played in Unity, for example.

[LuBu]

Just wanted to say that A&A has been my favorite series (it's just so fun to read) but that this has been the weakest issue and not my favorite book this month. Not that I didn't like it because I did, it just seemed lacking in content abit to me. Still this "bad" issue is better than most other comics out there so I can't really complain.

I did like the flashback and getting to see the brothers in china. And the rickshaw seen was funny and liked how Archer handled the Eternal Warrior. And it left me eagerly waiting for next month, though this month just felt a little lacking.

[carter3175]

I also like the "force of nature" concept too! This has been my least favorite book out of the bunch but its not a bad book though. The one thing I do not like is the boxes explaining fighting techniques all the time. I think we covered that in the 1st issue. We know Archer is a master of ______ <----Fill in the style.

[KXXX]

Apples

[KXXX]

I also like the "force of nature" concept too! This has been my least favorite book out of the bunch but its not a bad book though. The one thing I do not like is the boxes explaining fighting techniques all the time. I think we covered that in the 1st issue. We know Archer is a master of ______ <----Fill in the style.

He is not a master of Hokuto Shinken, although I suppose Dim Mak is close enough here.