I'm done with the Dark Key titles.

[Heath]

I'm still enjoying them so far. I even like Solar better than Magnus.

[dave]

Me too. I'm excited for next Wednesday.

[jridd28]

Me too. I'm excited for next Wednesday.

+1

[Daniel Jackson]

My only bummer is that the delays make it unbearable at times.

Yeah, they definitely need to get themselves on track and stop pushing the dates back.

[dave]

I would love it if they just went monthly. That would make everything so much easier.

[dhudson1]

I don't think they are bad. I was around for the early Valiant, they were not considered masterpieces at first.

Sometimes early on, it is hard to recognize the weave.

[Elveen]

It's a shame that the GK three are separated from the VU. I think that's part of what the books are lacking. Everything used to tie in so well and have an interesting premise. Even the supporting characters played a integral part in the stories.

It's still early in the game, but it didn't take as long with Valiant. I was hooked after just a few issues. I sure hope Jim is eventually able to find a similar groove with the new Dark Horse. I'm still on board for the time being though.

That's it, though. These are NOT the same characters. Yes, they have the same name and the basic concept is the same but these are "new" characters and they are not set in the Valiant Universe. I think it is interesting to note how poor they seem now that they are not in the VU. The question remains, how much poorer will the VU be without them?

There will be a void, that's for sure. Magnus and Solar played vital roles in the VU, Turok....not so much. To me, it's almost like DC losing Supes and Batman. Yeah, they still have plenty of other heroes, but something would always be missing without them.

I think Valiant can still pull off a decent new universe with the right direction. It just won't be the magic that we had the first time around, unfortunately.

The only thing I would add is that Solar (and Magnus) were very important to the beginning of Valiant, I think the strongest characters (right after Unity) were X-O, Shadowman, A&A, EW. Solar and Magnus were my least favorite titles during that time.

I think Valiant has plenty in the stable of heroes to be successful. We just need compelling stories, decent art.... and well, books.

[Elveen]

I don't think they are bad. I was around for the early Valiant, they were not considered masterpieces at first.

Sometimes early on, it is hard to recognize the weave.

I am not disputing you, but I did not really grow up reading comics. I read my first Valiant while I was in college. I think it was an early Magnus book (maybe #2) that a friend who was collecting had me read. I was hooked right away. Not only on Magnus, but Valiant and then the entire hobby.

I do agree that somethings that are great take time to become great, while some are great from the outset.

[Knightt]

Each Era of books is great in their own right. We were much different people than when we read those books 'way back when'. I didn't read Solar and Magnus until six or around then years ago and I got that Fan Boy feeling... reading the Dark Horse books gives me the same feeling but 'different'. Maybe because I am older and have a different outlook on many things. But I figured the WORST thing I could do is compare the new books to how it was back in Valiant's hay-day and I think we were warned by Jim not to think like that either... but rather to THINK TO THE FUTURE or something along those lines.

If I live in the past, I will NEVER be happy with what happens in the here and now.

[OmenSpirits.com]

Looking at these books without any notions of yesterday and looking at them against the market of today, which those in favor of these books, have to admitt, visually wise when placed AGAINST what's on the stands, is about at the level of an indy with a shoestring budget that didn't bother to take art into the equation.

Shooter's killing his chance by not having solid & consistantly good art. Hell, one of DC's books, like JSA, has better art than what I've seen of his books.

And to those who scream from the rooftops, "It's about the story!", start reading prose fiction because this is comics and comics are a visual medium.

Period.

[sbcomics]

I like Eduardo Francisco.

[400yrs]

Looking at these books without any notions of yesterday and looking at them against the market of today, which those in favor of these books, have to admitt, visually wise when placed AGAINST what's on the stands, is about at the level of an indy with a shoestring budget that didn't bother to take art into the equation.

Shooter's killing his chance by not having solid & consistantly good art. Hell, one of DC's books, like JSA, has better art than what I've seen of his books.

And to those who scream from the rooftops, "It's about the story!", start reading prose fiction because this is comics and comics are a visual medium.

Period.

Aside from Solar 1, I've liked the art style from the pencils and ink perspective. It's simple and clean. Yeah, it has an indy feel to it, but it is Dark Horse and not an A list Marvel or DC book.

The panel layouts are a different store however.

[Ryan]

Shooter's killing his chance by not having solid & consistantly good art. Hell, one of DC's books, like JSA, has better art than what I've seen of his books.

To be fair, Shooter didn't choose the artists. He's only doing work-for-hire writing, all the editing and art choices are handled by Chris Warner.

[ian_house]

It's a shame the amazing covers reflect nothing inside.

[Daniel Jackson]

It's a shame the amazing covers reflect nothing inside.

The covers have been outstanding for sure.

[Knightt]

It's a shame the amazing covers reflect nothing inside.

That is a single flaw that I see... I really liked the old Crossgen rules of engagement. i.e. THE books artist will be THE cover artist so that nobody is misled in which what the art is to look like within.

[OmenSpirits.com]

Shooter's killing his chance by not having solid & consistantly good art. Hell, one of DC's books, like JSA, has better art than what I've seen of his books.

To be fair, Shooter didn't choose the artists. He's only doing work-for-hire writing, all the editing and art choices are handled by Chris Warner.

Really?

Hmm... That would be the Chris Warner the artist, right. I've had occassion to email chat with him, may have to ask him what's the deal. Heck He should be doing art on solar!

[tanord]

It's a shame the amazing covers reflect nothing inside.

The covers have been outstanding for sure.

+3
The painted covers and the interior art are so different that I definitely feel that it's misleading the buyer.
I feel that Magnus #2 is the best story of the entire launch so far. Many posters have said that the art is better than back in the Valiant days but not by much. If you think about it, the art is not better than Bob Layton's art. The only thing that can beat Bob Layton's art thus far are the painted art covers.

[tanord]

And honestly, I was going to answer the question of how much poorer VEI will be without the GK3 with "poor enough - look how poor it is already."




-slym

Touche. However, I think that this could end up being a blessing in disguise. Given how absolutely dead average the "Dark Key" books have been, is it possible VEI dodged a bullet?

As long as there is good writing there's always a chance that any comic can sell. Bone has characters that look like cartoons but it sold and the trade paperbacks are in multiple printings due to the writing. Another title would be the Scott Pilgrim series. The art sucks but the writing has critical acclaim and the trades are selling well.

[400yrs]

And honestly, I was going to answer the question of how much poorer VEI will be without the GK3 with "poor enough - look how poor it is already."




-slym

Touche. However, I think that this could end up being a blessing in disguise. Given how absolutely dead average the "Dark Key" books have been, is it possible VEI dodged a bullet?

As long as there is good writing there's always a chance that any comic can sell. Bone has characters that look like cartoons but it sold and the trade paperbacks are in multiple printings due to the writing. Another title would be the Scott Pilgrim series. The art sucks but the writing has critical acclaim and the trades are selling well.

Whoa.

Saying the art sucks on those titles is completely a matter of opinion. Both of those styles are drastically different from your regular super hero comics and therefore, can't be compared.

Bone is a cartoon book. Jeff Smith is a fantastic cartoonist and Bone is a great example of the genre. It's a book that appeals to non-comic book fans and school aged kids so it could be argued that the art is definitely more desireable to more people, if not better, than your regular super hero books.

Scott Pilgrim - I've only flipped it, but it's manga which really isn't comparable to super hero books at all.

The Dark Key books don't compare to the two above because they are regular super hero comics. These DK books will never appeal to as many people as Bone nor SP. The art on a regular super hero comic has to be good for people to like it over the long run. The only book I can think of that has made it with not so great art is Invincible. It's my favorite art now, but it started like crap. These DK books don't have the solid writing like that book.




Regarding Dark Key, I kind of wish that the painted covers were the variants and the line art ones were the regulars. While I appreciate the painted covers, I actually prefer the line art covers.

[Daniel Jackson]

It's a shame the amazing covers reflect nothing inside.

The covers have been outstanding for sure.

+3
The covers and the interior art are so different that I definitely feel that it's misleading the buyer.
I feel that Magnus #2 is the best story of the entire launch so far.

I enjoyed that issue as well. Too bad it's taking so long to get to a third book.

[Cyberstrike]

I am sticking with EVERY Dark Horse Solar, Magnus, Turok, Samson etc etc book that comes out. I look forward to the next issue of EACH. I did not have any preconceptions going into this and enjoy them for what they are. Not having any preconceptions going in, is VERY difficult but once I was able to come to grips with it, I then started the books with a great deal of enthusiasm and did not find myself wanting.

I find the books (all titles) very entertaining and will stay the course.

If any whom have purchased their books, have kept them in very nice condition and would be willing to sell them to me at a good price, I will gladly buy them. If anyone simply wants them out of their collection, I will gladly pay the shipping. Please PM me.

I still need that darn variant cover to Turok #1 as well, dagnabbit.

On a side note, I can understand peoples disappointment... sometimes we set the bar too high that it can never be met. I am not offering to buy anyone's books out of spite or to stand tall in defiance and showing my staunch support to Jim's work. I genuinely like the books and will take them off your hands, if anyone would like.

Take off the nostalgia glasses.

I read them already and all they are bad Valiant rehash. I got the Valiant versions of Solar and Magnus and it is the same damn story in the DH books.

I don't want to read a Valiant Knock off by Dark Horse which is what the Dark Key books are IMHO. I wanted Shooter to do something new and fresh with these characters and he hasn't and the whole has been a miserable failure.

Hell the GK reprints are better in the first issues are 1000 times better than Shooter's current stories and it's no big secert that I can't stand much of the Silver Age comics writing.

[tanord]

And honestly, I was going to answer the question of how much poorer VEI will be without the GK3 with "poor enough - look how poor it is already."




-slym

Touche. However, I think that this could end up being a blessing in disguise. Given how absolutely dead average the "Dark Key" books have been, is it possible VEI dodged a bullet?

As long as there is good writing there's always a chance that any comic can sell. Bone has characters that look like cartoons but it sold and the trade paperbacks are in multiple printings due to the writing. Another title would be the Scott Pilgrim series. The art sucks but the writing has critical acclaim and the trades are selling well.

Whoa.

Saying the art sucks on those titles is completely a matter of opinion. Both of those styles are drastically different from your regular super hero comics and therefore, can't be compared.

Bone is a cartoon book. Jeff Smith is a fantastic cartoonist and Bone is a great example of the genre. It's a book that appeals to non-comic book fans and school aged kids so it could be argued that the art is definitely more desireable to more people, if not better, than your regular super hero books.

Scott Pilgrim - I've only flipped it, but it's manga which really isn't comparable to super hero books at all.

The Dark Key books don't compare to the two above because they are regular super hero comics. These DK books will never appeal to as many people as Bone nor SP. The art on a regular super hero comic has to be good for people to like it over the long run. The only book I can think of that has made it with not so great art is Invincible. It's my favorite art now, but it started like crap. These DK books don't have the solid writing like that book.




Regarding Dark Key, I kind of wish that the painted covers were the variants and the line art ones were the regulars. While I appreciate the painted covers, I actually prefer the line art covers.

I didn't really mean that the art sucks on Bone but just that the reason that it is selling is because of the story. If the art had stick figures but the dialogue and story was the same, it would still sell well. If the story was vastly different but the art was the same I don't think that it would sell as well without the same epic storyline. There are other artists that sell their comics with cartoon art whose target audience are kids--but do not sell as well as Bone. The difference, I think is the story.
I disagree with Scott Pilgrim's manga art. There is a comic titled Drain from Image that features a Japanese artist who takes her style from manga and it is also not a super hero comic. That's what I consider great manga art.
As a matter of fact, I think I can draw better than Scott Pilgrim's art and I'm not a good artist.

[Knightt]

I am sticking with EVERY Dark Horse Solar, Magnus, Turok, Samson etc etc book that comes out. I look forward to the next issue of EACH. I did not have any preconceptions going into this and enjoy them for what they are. Not having any preconceptions going in, is VERY difficult but once I was able to come to grips with it, I then started the books with a great deal of enthusiasm and did not find myself wanting.

I find the books (all titles) very entertaining and will stay the course.

If any whom have purchased their books, have kept them in very nice condition and would be willing to sell them to me at a good price, I will gladly buy them. If anyone simply wants them out of their collection, I will gladly pay the shipping. Please PM me.

I still need that darn variant cover to Turok #1 as well, dagnabbit.

On a side note, I can understand peoples disappointment... sometimes we set the bar too high that it can never be met. I am not offering to buy anyone's books out of spite or to stand tall in defiance and showing my staunch support to Jim's work. I genuinely like the books and will take them off your hands, if anyone would like.

Take off the nostalgia glasses.

I read them already and all they are bad Valiant rehash. I got the Valiant versions of Solar and Magnus and it is the same damn story in the DH books.

I don't want to read a Valiant Knock off by Dark Horse which is what the Dark Key books are IMHO. I wanted Shooter to do something new and fresh with these characters and he hasn't and the whole has been a miserable failure.

Hell the GK reprints are better in the first issues are 1000 times better than Shooter's current stories and it's no big secert that I can't stand much of the Silver Age comics writing.

[arghh!]

I like all the Dark Key books. I think they are fun reads- but I came to Valiant late in life so I am not comparing them to something I read as a kid.

I think the painted covers are better than the variants too. I think they probably pull in more people than the line art would though as the standard cover.

I remember when I was a kid that I would pick up old Gold key books at conventions because the painted covers looked so cool. The insides never lived up to those covers either.