Dark Horse Gold Key Estimated Print Runs

[Daniel Jackson]

Is that number correct for Turok #1?

Whoa. Doomed.

And Magnus #2 is even lower.

[400yrs]

Is that number correct for Turok #1?

Whoa. Doomed.

And Magnus #2 is even lower.

Yep. For a #1, that surprised me a bit. I always thought Turok was the more mainstream of the 3. I really think they shot themselves in the foot by releasing that terrible Doc Solar #1 as their first book.

[xodacia81]

Is that number correct for Turok #1?

Whoa. Doomed.

And Magnus #2 is even lower.

Yep. For a #1, that surprised me a bit. I always thought Turok was the more mainstream of the 3. I really think they shot themselves in the foot by releasing that terrible Doc Solar #1 as their first book.

They might have. The new line feels like all the ideas he once decided not to do, he's now decided "what the hell, they'll read anything these days" and is turning them in. I'm quite...let down, as I expect a lot more of Mr. Shooter.

[orbitalshift]

Ironic to me, that of the three, Turok was by far the best, but sold the least. I hope Dark Horse will stick with the line long enough for it to develop an audience.

Anyone know what they have to sell to break even?

Do we know how these rank compared with other Dark Horse books?

[xodacia81]

Ironic to me, that of the three, Turok was by far the best, but sold the least. I hope Dark Horse will stick with the line long enough for it to develop an audience.

Anyone know what they have to sell to break even?

Do we know how these rank compared with other Dark Horse books?

No idea on the last two but Dark Horse rarely sticks with anything in a superhero vein long enough for a proper arc to finish, let alone an audience to be built. Case in point, CGW/DHH, which was never given the nourishment it needed. Hell, they almost asked Mike Mignola to take Hellboy elsewhere, based on "through orders" for the first issue of Hellboy. Giving a series the axe because of orders on the first issue is STUPID. See what happens, I say. Don't shoot yourself in the foot while you're still in the car.

[orbitalshift]

Well, I would have hoped they would have committed themselves to at least a couple years when they started with this. They have to realize, even Valiant in its hey day took a year or more of monthlies to get things rolling. The delays have to hurt momentum.

As long as Jim's involved I'll be there, here's hoping it good long run.

[xodacia81]

Well, I would have hoped they would have committed themselves to at least a couple years when they started with this. They have to realize, even Valiant in its hey day took a year or more of monthlies to get things rolling. The delays have to hurt momentum.

As long as Jim's involved I'll be there, here's hoping it good long run.

Valiant started when comics were at perhaps the peak of sales/mainstream success. Dark Horse has shown very little patience with anything aside from the Lucasfilm properties and the various Manga titles they've published. Except for some creator owned works, they have been a "if we don't have a hit before it comes out, you won't see issue # 5" type of place. I've enjoyed much of what they have published but I can't get too attached to anything they do or have hopes of longevity because that simply isn't what they do.

[sbcomics]

Ironic to me, that of the three, Turok was by far the best, but sold the least. I hope Dark Horse will stick with the line long enough for it to develop an audience.

Anyone know what they have to sell to break even?

Do we know how these rank compared with other Dark Horse books?

These numbers are in the same range with the recent "Aliens vs. Predator," "BPRD" and significantly above "Terminator." So I think at the sales level they are at, they are still profitable, would be my guess. Though I doubt significant continuing drops would be a good thing.

I thought Turok was the best of the bunch as well. I would assume with plans for four-plus books in the line, they'd keep them going long enough to see how they move in trade, but I guess we'll have to see! Nothing's doing all that great in today's marketplace, really.

[Ryan]

Is that number correct for Turok #1?

Whoa. Doomed.

Really? Considering they're outselling almost all of IDW, BOOM, Vertigo, and every Image book not named Walking Dead or Haunt I'd say they're not doing THAT bad.

Anyone who thought these books would come out selling out gangbusters doesn't know anything about the comics market. They're definitely a niche product, and when you factor in future collections and the reprint editions already being done, it's a niche that can sustain itself.

I don't really understand the vocal minority who seem to really want to see this line fail. If you don't like the books then fine, no need to torture yourselves reading everything you can about them.

[Chiclo]

Is that number correct for Turok #1?

Whoa. Doomed.

Really? Considering they're outselling almost all of IDW, BOOM, Vertigo, and every Image book not named Walking Dead or Haunt I'd say they're not doing THAT bad.

Anyone who thought these books would come out selling out gangbusters doesn't know anything about the comics market. They're definitely a niche product, and when you factor in future collections and the reprint editions already being done, it's a niche that can sustain itself.

I don't really understand the vocal minority who seem to really want to see this line fail. If you don't like the books then fine, no need to torture yourselves reading everything you can about them.

Image has slipped to the fifth largest market share after IDW. Dynamite may pass them next.

It is worth mentioning that consistently the highest selling comic outside the big two is Buffy, a soon-to-be-cancelled Dark Horse title.

[hotwings1979]

Well said!

Is that number correct for Turok #1?

Whoa. Doomed.

Really? Considering they're outselling almost all of IDW, BOOM, Vertigo, and every Image book not named Walking Dead or Haunt I'd say they're not doing THAT bad.

Anyone who thought these books would come out selling out gangbusters doesn't know anything about the comics market. They're definitely a niche product, and when you factor in future collections and the reprint editions already being done, it's a niche that can sustain itself.

I don't really understand the vocal minority who seem to really want to see this line fail. If you don't like the books then fine, no need to torture yourselves reading everything you can about them.

[greg]

All of the other Dark Horse titles mentioned already "succeed" outside of the comics world.
Star Wars, Hellboy, Aliens, Predator, Buffy, Terminator

$100Million-plus (if not $1Billion) movies and long-running TV series...
if those comics are unprofitable, it doesn't impact the true profitability of the characters.

Besides comics, what else is keeping Dr. Solar, Magnus, and Turok afloat?

[StarBrand]

Besides comics, what else is keeping Dr. Solar, Magnus, and Turok afloat?

My mental powers.

[iggy101us]

Besides comics, what else is keeping Dr. Solar, Magnus, and Turok afloat?

The Gold Key archives HCs and TPBs. Not sure how many copies are being sold though.

[hulk181man]

Ironic to me, that of the three, Turok was by far the best, but sold the least. I hope Dark Horse will stick with the line long enough for it to develop an audience.

Anyone know what they have to sell to break even?

Do we know how these rank compared with other Dark Horse books?

These numbers are in the same range with the recent "Aliens vs. Predator," "BPRD" and significantly above "Terminator." So I think at the sales level they are at, they are still profitable, would be my guess. Though I doubt significant continuing drops would be a good thing.

I thought Turok was the best of the bunch as well. I would assume with plans for four-plus books in the line, they'd keep them going long enough to see how they move in trade, but I guess we'll have to see! Nothing's doing all that great in today's marketplace, really.

Agreed - Turok was solid all around, the start to Solar and Magnus was very rough although Solar has improved.

[Daniel Jackson]

Ironic to me, that of the three, Turok was by far the best, but sold the least. I hope Dark Horse will stick with the line long enough for it to develop an audience.

Anyone know what they have to sell to break even?

Do we know how these rank compared with other Dark Horse books?

These numbers are in the same range with the recent "Aliens vs. Predator," "BPRD" and significantly above "Terminator." So I think at the sales level they are at, they are still profitable, would be my guess. Though I doubt significant continuing drops would be a good thing.

I thought Turok was the best of the bunch as well. I would assume with plans for four-plus books in the line, they'd keep them going long enough to see how they move in trade, but I guess we'll have to see! Nothing's doing all that great in today's marketplace, really.

Agreed - Turok was solid all around, the start to Solar and Magnus was very rough although Solar has improved.

Solar has improved slightly, but they still have a long way to go with that title.

[StarBrand]

Ironic to me, that of the three, Turok was by far the best, but sold the least. I hope Dark Horse will stick with the line long enough for it to develop an audience.

Anyone know what they have to sell to break even?

Do we know how these rank compared with other Dark Horse books?

These numbers are in the same range with the recent "Aliens vs. Predator," "BPRD" and significantly above "Terminator." So I think at the sales level they are at, they are still profitable, would be my guess. Though I doubt significant continuing drops would be a good thing.

I thought Turok was the best of the bunch as well. I would assume with plans for four-plus books in the line, they'd keep them going long enough to see how they move in trade, but I guess we'll have to see! Nothing's doing all that great in today's marketplace, really.

Agreed - Turok was solid all around, the start to Solar and Magnus was very rough although Solar has improved.

Solar has improved slightly, but they still have a long way to go with that title.

That ground could be covered quickly, though, with the Dr Solar origin story forthcoming beginning with issue 5.

[Daniel Jackson]

Ironic to me, that of the three, Turok was by far the best, but sold the least. I hope Dark Horse will stick with the line long enough for it to develop an audience.

Anyone know what they have to sell to break even?

Do we know how these rank compared with other Dark Horse books?

These numbers are in the same range with the recent "Aliens vs. Predator," "BPRD" and significantly above "Terminator." So I think at the sales level they are at, they are still profitable, would be my guess. Though I doubt significant continuing drops would be a good thing.

I thought Turok was the best of the bunch as well. I would assume with plans for four-plus books in the line, they'd keep them going long enough to see how they move in trade, but I guess we'll have to see! Nothing's doing all that great in today's marketplace, really.

Agreed - Turok was solid all around, the start to Solar and Magnus was very rough although Solar has improved.

Solar has improved slightly, but they still have a long way to go with that title.

That ground could be covered quickly, though, with the Dr Solar origin story forthcoming beginning with issue 5.

I hope so.

[StarBrand]

Ironic to me, that of the three, Turok was by far the best, but sold the least. I hope Dark Horse will stick with the line long enough for it to develop an audience.

Anyone know what they have to sell to break even?

Do we know how these rank compared with other Dark Horse books?

These numbers are in the same range with the recent "Aliens vs. Predator," "BPRD" and significantly above "Terminator." So I think at the sales level they are at, they are still profitable, would be my guess. Though I doubt significant continuing drops would be a good thing.

I thought Turok was the best of the bunch as well. I would assume with plans for four-plus books in the line, they'd keep them going long enough to see how they move in trade, but I guess we'll have to see! Nothing's doing all that great in today's marketplace, really.

Agreed - Turok was solid all around, the start to Solar and Magnus was very rough although Solar has improved.

Solar has improved slightly, but they still have a long way to go with that title.

That ground could be covered quickly, though, with the Dr Solar origin story forthcoming beginning with issue 5.

I hope so.

Me too. I'm optimistic that will be the case.

[Daniel Jackson]

I hope so.

Me too. I'm optimistic that will be the case.

I'm sticking with the titles for at least the first year or so to give them a fair chance. If they can't get a groove going by then, I'll probably have to reevaluate.

[rjrjr]

No idea on the last two but Dark Horse rarely sticks with anything in a superhero vein long enough for a proper arc to finish, let alone an audience to be built. Case in point, CGW/DHH, which was never given the nourishment it needed. Hell, they almost asked Mike Mignola to take Hellboy elsewhere, based on "through orders" for the first issue of Hellboy. Giving a series the axe because of orders on the first issue is STUPID. See what happens, I say. Don't shoot yourself in the foot while you're still in the car.

Do you happen to have a source for your information concerning Dark Horse almost asking Mignola to take Hellboy somewhere else based on the first issue sales?

I'm just curious, since Hellboy: Seeds of Destruction #1 was a sleeper hit, selling out in shops within days. I remember driving around Phoenix looking for a copy.

[rjrjr]

Image has slipped to the fifth largest market share after IDW. Dynamite may pass them next.

It is worth mentioning that consistently the highest selling comic outside the big two is Buffy, a soon-to-be-cancelled Dark Horse title.

Buffy is not being cancelled. The first overarching storyline (Season 9) is ending. They are taking a brief hiatus and coming back with a new overarching storyline (Season 10). Presumably, they'll have a new #1 and I expect Buffy will break into the top 25 issues again, at least for a few issues.

[ian_house]

Image has slipped to the fifth largest market share after IDW. Dynamite may pass them next.

It is worth mentioning that consistently the highest selling comic outside the big two is Buffy, a soon-to-be-cancelled Dark Horse title.

Buffy is not being cancelled. The first overarching storyline (Season 9) is ending. They are taking a brief hiatus and coming back with a new overarching storyline (Season 10). Presumably, they'll have a new #1 and I expect Buffy will break into the top 25 issues again, at least for a few issues.

That's what I thought too.

[400yrs]

Really? Considering they're outselling almost all of IDW, BOOM, Vertigo, and every Image book not named Walking Dead or Haunt I'd say they're not doing THAT bad.

Vertigo's business model appears to be to print even books that sell only 7K-ish if they know they will sell in trades. Boom! seems to be taking a similar position, but they are still young so we will see if that works for them over the long run. IDW is similar. I don't see these books getting alot of trade support from DH. We'll see. I doubt they'll still want to keep these in print if they get into the 5-7K range which could happen based on sales of the early issues.

Another thing is that these books are probably more expensive to make than any of the others you've mentioned. Doing painted covers alone ensures that. Most of the Image stuff and some of the Vertigo stuff is done all by 2 man teams keeping the costs down so that they can stay afloat. If the painted covers cease, that could be a sign of a problem. Those aren't cheap.

Anyone who thought these books would come out selling out gangbusters doesn't know anything about the comics market.

Of course not. In fact, Dr. Solar started off doing better than I thought it would by several thousand. What is interesting is the trend I'm seeing. The regular attrition from #1 to #2, #2 to #3, etc is fine. That happens. The interesting thing to me is the drop from Solar #1 to Magnus #1 and Magnus #1 to Turok #1. I personally thought Turok 1 would be in between Mag and Solar 1, but I guess Turok isn't as popular as I thought. Or people are bailing from the line.

With damn near all comics, and especially new super hero comics, it is rare that they build an audience in today's comic market. If they don't have a good audience 6 issues in, chances are that it won't develop. Invincible is the only exception that I can think of in the super hero genre and it's one book, not a line of books.

They're definitely a niche product, and when you factor in future collections and the reprint editions already being done, it's a niche that can sustain itself.

I can't say I've seen alot of DH trades on shelves at shops or in stores. The Hellboy and Star Wars and Usagi stuff, yeah, but not too much else. We'll see if these even get trade support from DH. Can it sustain itself? We'll find out.

I don't really understand the vocal minority who seem to really want to see this line fail. If you don't like the books then fine, no need to torture yourselves reading everything you can about them.

Although I won't be buying them off the shelves much going forward, I don't want the line to fail. If people like it, good for them. As someone in business, I like to observe this stuff. I don't understand some of the moves that people in the comic industry (not just on these Dark Key books) make at times and I like to analyze because some things seem so simple to me that I'm not sure what they see differently.

[400yrs]

Oh and DH also does alot of Conan trades..... which they price crazy high. In fact, most of their trades are crazy priced. Not sure why.