How many copies are you going to order?

ian_house · Post by **ian_house** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:05 am

UnknownTales wrote:A fair estimate for the first issue print run is 10-14,000.

Now, subtract the multiples you hoarders and speculators will purchase, so a more true sales figure will unveil for issue 2. I will estimate the second issue will print around 8-10,000. Third issue below 7-8,000.

This is not sustainable by Dark Horse if they are paying out for the art and Shooter's scripts.

The Red Circle characters launched around 20,000. and plumeted by 50% for issue 2. They have been axed as of issue #10.

We need to support the product, not by buying and hoarding, but by telling fellow readers by word of mouth, message boards, giving a hoarded issue to a friend or co-worker to read.

Does seem like a low estimate for a project that Dark Horse are REALLY promoting.

Print runs are reduced because people stop buying, usually because the quality just isn't there. I have high hopes that the quality will be there for these projects.

Also did the Red Circle characters have anywhere near the names attached as Jim Shooter?

Second_Death · Post by **Second_Death** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:28 am

Dr. Solar wrote:
Second_Death wrote:At least 3 of each but maybe more as it is important that these titles succeed. It would be nice to see Dr Solar stick around for a few years.
I know I haven't been posting as much as I used to (when I rocketed into position as a top 20 poster), but I'm not going anywhere.

Second_Death · Post by **Second_Death** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:29 am

Pardon my ignorance but what are the print runs for the better selling current books?

ian_house · Post by **ian_house** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:51 am

Second_Death wrote:Pardon my ignorance but what are the print runs for the better selling current books?

the top top books eg Blackest Night or Siege were selling over 100,000 copies. But it drops pretty quickly from there. These are the sales estimates for March 2010:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... e&id=25707

superman-prime · Post by **superman-prime** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:50 am

100k is 1 or 2 and sometime none

400yrs · Post by **400yrs** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:25 am

sonicdan wrote:I have 8 copies of Solar #1 ordered.
4 each of the two covers.
DAN

Did I miss something?? Are these available to order? Is there an announcement on these or something? I thought it was only the FCBD right now????

400yrs · Post by **400yrs** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:26 am

ian_house wrote:
UnknownTales wrote:A fair estimate for the first issue print run is 10-14,000.

Now, subtract the multiples you hoarders and speculators will purchase, so a more true sales figure will unveil for issue 2. I will estimate the second issue will print around 8-10,000. Third issue below 7-8,000.

This is not sustainable by Dark Horse if they are paying out for the art and Shooter's scripts.

The Red Circle characters launched around 20,000. and plumeted by 50% for issue 2. They have been axed as of issue #10.

We need to support the product, not by buying and hoarding, but by telling fellow readers by word of mouth, message boards, giving a hoarded issue to a friend or co-worker to read.
Does seem like a low estimate for a project that Dark Horse are REALLY promoting.

Print runs are reduced because people stop buying, usually because the quality just isn't there. I have high hopes that the quality will be there for these projects.

Also did the Red Circle characters have anywhere near the names attached as Jim Shooter?

How did that recent Buffy book do? I'd say these will probably do half to 3/4 whatever that did.

superman-prime · Post by **superman-prime** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:26 am

i think he ment previews 3 months out

400yrs · Post by **400yrs** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:32 am

superman-prime wrote:i think he ment previews 3 months out

Yeah, I didn't see them in the April Previews.

Elveen · Post by **Elveen** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 2:04 am

ian_house wrote:
Second_Death wrote:Pardon my ignorance but what are the print runs for the better selling current books?
the top top books eg Blackest Night or Siege were selling over 100,000 copies. But it drops pretty quickly from there. These are the sales estimates for March 2010:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... e&id=25707

That is quite the list.

Only 5 non Marvel or Dc books in the top 100. And 3 of them are the same book (Green Hornet). I had no idea it was such domination.

And I did not see Walking Dead on that list. And Fables is #105. Yikes.

400yrs · Post by **400yrs** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:21 am

Elveen wrote: That is quite the list.

Only 5 non Marvel or Dc books in the top 100. And 3 of them are the same book (Green Hornet). I had no idea it was such domination.

And I did not see Walking Dead on that list. And Fables is #105. Yikes.

I don't think a regular issue of TWD came out that month. It should be in the top 100 (barely). It's about a 25K book.

The trades and HCs are where TWD always cleans up every month (and why it's probably one of the most profitable books out there to the creators). If you look through the trade section, it's littered with all the different TWD trades. Each volume sells a few thousand a month even after they've been out forever.

I'd like to try and figure out about how many copies of Vol 1 has sold. It has to be around 200K by now, I'd think.

Chiclo · Post by **Chiclo** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:13 am

Elveen wrote:
ian_house wrote:
Second_Death wrote:Pardon my ignorance but what are the print runs for the better selling current books?
the top top books eg Blackest Night or Siege were selling over 100,000 copies. But it drops pretty quickly from there. These are the sales estimates for March 2010:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... e&id=25707
That is quite the list.

Only 5 non Marvel or Dc books in the top 100. And 3 of them are the same book (Green Hornet). I had no idea it was such domination.

And I did not see Walking Dead on that list. And Fables is #105. Yikes.

The domination you mention - is that Green Hornet or the big two?

I suspect the domination of the Green Hornet is rather inflated and next month it will be hanging in the high 30s or low 40s. As for the Big Two, it is unusual that they dominate the Top 100 so thoroughly. They almost always exclusively hold the Top 20 but there are usually 10 or so books from Dark Horse, Image, Dynamite, IDW and a couple of times this year - Archie.

Usually Buffy is the top indy book.

UnknownTales · Post by **UnknownTales** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:59 am

Buffy:

28. Buffy the Vampire Slayer (Dark Horse)

02/2008: Buffy the Vampire Slayer #11 - 88,070
02/2009: Buffy the Vampire Slayer #22 - 67,575

=====
03/2009: Buffy the Vampire Slayer #23 - 64,108 (-5.1%)
04/2009: Buffy the Vampire Slayer #24 - 60,916 (-5.0%)
05/2009: Buffy the Vampire Slayer #25 - 58,740 (-3.6%)
06/2009: BTVS Tales of the Vampires one shot- 45,568 (-22.4)
07/2009: Buffy the Vampire Slayer #26 - 55,393 (+21.6%)
08/2009: Buffy the Vampire Slayer #27 - 53,403 (-3.6%)
09/2009: Buffy the Vampire Slayer #28 - 52,303 (-2.1%)
10/2009: Buffy the Vampire Slayer #29 - 50,236 (-4.0%)
11/2009: Buffy the Vampire Slayer #30 - 49,155 (-2.2%)
12/2009: BTVS Willow One Shot - 45,136 (-8.2%)
01/2010: Buffy the Vampire Slayer #31 - 47,013 (+4.2%)
02/2010: Buffy the Vampire Slayer #32 - 47,975 (+2.0)
6 month (-10.2%)

Chiclo wrote:
Elveen wrote:
ian_house wrote:
Second_Death wrote:Pardon my ignorance but what are the print runs for the better selling current books?
the top top books eg Blackest Night or Siege were selling over 100,000 copies. But it drops pretty quickly from there. These are the sales estimates for March 2010:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... e&id=25707
That is quite the list.

Only 5 non Marvel or Dc books in the top 100. And 3 of them are the same book (Green Hornet). I had no idea it was such domination.

And I did not see Walking Dead on that list. And Fables is #105. Yikes.
The domination you mention - is that Green Hornet or the big two?

I suspect the domination of the Green Hornet is rather inflated and next month it will be hanging in the high 30s or low 40s. As for the Big Two, it is unusual that they dominate the Top 100 so thoroughly. They almost always exclusively hold the Top 20 but there are usually 10 or so books from Dark Horse, Image, Dynamite, IDW and a couple of times this year - Archie.

Usually Buffy is the top indy book.

UnknownTales · Post by **UnknownTales** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:05 am

Solar and Magnus do not have a TV core to follow their books. I beliebve they will have less than half of these. Remember the numbers shooter launched with via VALIANT:

(1991)

Solar, Man of the Atom 1 (1991) 70,000
Solar, Man of the Atom 2 (1991) 55,000
Solar, Man of the Atom 3 (1991) 55,000 to 60,000
Solar, Man of the Atom 4 (1991) 60,000

28. Buffy the Vampire Slayer (Dark Horse)

02/2008: Buffy the Vampire Slayer #11 - 88,070
02/2009: Buffy the Vampire Slayer #22 - 67,575

=====
03/2009: Buffy the Vampire Slayer #23 - 64,108 (-5.1%)
04/2009: Buffy the Vampire Slayer #24 - 60,916 (-5.0%)
05/2009: Buffy the Vampire Slayer #25 - 58,740 (-3.6%)
06/2009: BTVS Tales of the Vampires one shot- 45,568 (-22.4)
07/2009: Buffy the Vampire Slayer #26 - 55,393 (+21.6%)
08/2009: Buffy the Vampire Slayer #27 - 53,403 (-3.6%)
09/2009: Buffy the Vampire Slayer #28 - 52,303 (-2.1%)
10/2009: Buffy the Vampire Slayer #29 - 50,236 (-4.0%)
11/2009: Buffy the Vampire Slayer #30 - 49,155 (-2.2%)
12/2009: BTVS Willow One Shot - 45,136 (-8.2%)
01/2010: Buffy the Vampire Slayer #31 - 47,013 (+4.2%)
02/2010: Buffy the Vampire Slayer #32 - 47,975 (+2.0)
6 month (-10.2%)

Second_Death · Post by **Second_Death** » Mon May 17, 2010 10:43 am

ian_house wrote:
Second_Death wrote:Pardon my ignorance but what are the print runs for the better selling current books?
the top top books eg Blackest Night or Siege were selling over 100,000 copies. But it drops pretty quickly from there. These are the sales estimates for March 2010:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... e&id=25707

Thanks for the info and the link.

I'm surprised by the small market share DH currently has. We'll see how the Dark-Key books effect these numbers.

Second_Death · Post by **Second_Death** » Mon May 17, 2010 10:49 am

With John's intention to pursue a "signed book of the month" club and the news that Dr Spektor will be added to the line, I'll probably now be acquiring 10+ copies of every issue at least through the first story arcs in each title. After that, may back off to 5-7 of each issue.

StarBrand · Post by **StarBrand** » Mon May 17, 2010 11:15 am

Second_Death wrote:With John's intention to pursue a "signed book of the month" club and the news that Dr Spektor will be added to the line, I'll probably now be acquiring 10+ copies of every issue at least through the first story arcs in each title. After that, may back off to 5-7 of each issue.

Nice.

Jersen · Post by **Jersen** » Tue May 18, 2010 2:02 am

Second_Death wrote:With John's intention to pursue a "signed book of the month" club and the news that Dr Spektor will be added to the line, I'll probably now be acquiring 10+ copies of every issue at least through the first story arcs in each title. After that, may back off to 5-7 of each issue.

I really don't get that. I'm not downing you at all, don't get me wrong, but why buy so many? I can even understand having 1 to read and 1 to keep mint, but I don't understand having tons and tons of the same copy of a book.

I guess it's obvious, 1 copy of each for me.

Drift · Post by **Drift** » Tue May 18, 2010 4:03 am

Jersen wrote:
Second_Death wrote:With John's intention to pursue a "signed book of the month" club and the news that Dr Spektor will be added to the line, I'll probably now be acquiring 10+ copies of every issue at least through the first story arcs in each title. After that, may back off to 5-7 of each issue.
I really don't get that. I'm not downing you at all, don't get me wrong, but why buy so many? I can even understand having 1 to read and 1 to keep mint, but I don't understand having tons and tons of the same copy of a book.

I guess it's obvious, 1 copy of each for me.

There has been a lot of talk about speculating, multiple buying, false interest etc on the boards over the last few years and the fact that even with the information put out in the most concise, informative and clear manner like Draco has done or me ranting in my irrational, unthought out manner, people keep on talking about it and doing it. It just goes to show that those that realise what it does to the industry have already stopped doing it and the ones that still do it don't give a damn. If they did they would knock that *SQUEE* on the head.

As I have said before, there is showing support the right way by promoting a natural growth and getting people on board by educating them and showing your enthusiasm and then there is the quick buck, speculate, horde and flip, false interest, dark side of the Force route.

ian_house · Post by **ian_house** » Tue May 18, 2010 4:40 am

Drift wrote:
Jersen wrote:
Second_Death wrote:With John's intention to pursue a "signed book of the month" club and the news that Dr Spektor will be added to the line, I'll probably now be acquiring 10+ copies of every issue at least through the first story arcs in each title. After that, may back off to 5-7 of each issue.
I really don't get that. I'm not downing you at all, don't get me wrong, but why buy so many? I can even understand having 1 to read and 1 to keep mint, but I don't understand having tons and tons of the same copy of a book.

I guess it's obvious, 1 copy of each for me.
There has been a lot of talk about speculating, multiple buying, false interest etc on the boards over the last few years and the fact that even with the information put out in the most concise, informative and clear manner like Draco has done or me ranting in my irrational, unthought out manner, people keep on talking about it and doing it. It just goes to show that those that realise what it does to the industry have already stopped doing it and the ones that still do it don't give a damn. If they did they would knock that *SQUEE* on the head.

As I have said before, there is showing support the right way by promoting a natural growth and getting people on board by educating them and showing your enthusiasm and then there is the quick buck, speculate, horde and flip, false interest, dark side of the Force route.

hear hear

Second_Death · Post by **Second_Death** » Tue May 18, 2010 12:13 pm

ian_house wrote:
Drift wrote:
Jersen wrote:
Second_Death wrote:With John's intention to pursue a "signed book of the month" club and the news that Dr Spektor will be added to the line, I'll probably now be acquiring 10+ copies of every issue at least through the first story arcs in each title. After that, may back off to 5-7 of each issue.
I really don't get that. I'm not downing you at all, don't get me wrong, but why buy so many? I can even understand having 1 to read and 1 to keep mint, but I don't understand having tons and tons of the same copy of a book.

I guess it's obvious, 1 copy of each for me.
There has been a lot of talk about speculating, multiple buying, false interest etc on the boards over the last few years and the fact that even with the information put out in the most concise, informative and clear manner like Draco has done or me ranting in my irrational, unthought out manner, people keep on talking about it and doing it. It just goes to show that those that realise what it does to the industry have already stopped doing it and the ones that still do it don't give a damn. If they did they would knock that *SQUEE* on the head.

As I have said before, there is showing support the right way by promoting a natural growth and getting people on board by educating them and showing your enthusiasm and then there is the quick buck, speculate, horde and flip, false interest, dark side of the Force route.
hear hear

No speculation here. Here is the math explaining my purchase of Solar #1.......

1 mint copy for my collection
1 mint copy of variant for my collection
1 reading copy to abuse the h@ll out of
1 mint copy for my son's Valiant/Solar collection (he's only 5 so he will have to wait)
1 mint copy for my 8yo nephew
1 reading copy for my 8yo nephew
1 copy for my 22yo nephew
1 copy for the school library
1 copy for the community library
1 copy for my dad's barber (where I saw my first comic nearly 35 years ago)
2 copies from the Dark-Key signed book club
2 extra copies to help promote Jim's new books (did the same for the Harby hardcover)
maybe a couple more just because

-------------------
16 total copies

Adds up fast but the # of copies will be less for the other books. For example, I won't buy the extra copies to promote issues other than Solar #1 or donate books past the initial story arcs of each title. Also, probably won't request the signed editions of every issue so my per issue total will vary (5-7).

StarBrand · Post by **StarBrand** » Tue May 18, 2010 12:27 pm

I love Shooter universes so much I built this website, which has included hours upon hours of research and my discovering stuff over the course of years about this particular universe that was unknown or had been lost to comicdom. www.newuniversecomics.com
Countless hours of my time have led to my documenting New Universe items that were widely not known to exist until my research. I know I don't have the right to show my support for Shooter by buying extra copies of the first universe he's launched in almost 20 years, though, because my interest is false.

Second_Death · Post by **Second_Death** » Tue May 18, 2010 4:34 pm

StarBrand wrote:I love Shooter universes so much I built this website, which has included hours upon hours of research and my discovering stuff over the course of years about this particular universe that was unknown or had been lost to comicdom. www.newuniversecomics.com
Countless hours of my time have led to my documenting New Universe items that were widely not known to exist until my research. I know I don't have the right to show my support for Shooter by buying extra copies of the first universe he's launched in almost 20 years, though, because my interest is false.

Nice website. First read those comments by Jim in a copy of Starbrand #1 I believe. Let's hope Jim's efforts this time lead to many years of publication. He certainly has the backing of many loyal fans and a company with a solid reputation. Upon further reflection, maybe 2 extra copies isn't enough....time to edit.

Second_Death · Post by **Second_Death** » Tue May 18, 2010 4:44 pm

As history has shown, trying to boost VEI by purchasing extra copies of the hardcovers didn't work out so well. It appears publishing new material was not there primary focus. I think we pretty well understand that Jim and DH consider the publication and subsequent success of these new books to a top priority. Let's support them as best we can to make their success a reality.

Drift · Post by **Drift** » Tue May 18, 2010 4:51 pm

StarBrand wrote:I love Shooter universes so much I built this website, which has included hours upon hours of research and my discovering stuff over the course of years about this particular universe that was unknown or had been lost to comicdom. www.newuniversecomics.com
Countless hours of my time have led to my documenting New Universe items that were widely not known to exist until my research. I know I don't have the right to show my support for Shooter by buying extra copies of the first universe he's launched in almost 20 years, though, because my interest is false.

I am not saying your interest is false and SD has explained why he will be buying multiple copies (for giving away, cool stuff) I am saying it promotes a false interest. From a publisher point of view 1 person buying 10 books looks like 10 people because 10 units have sold. This causes an increase in print run that doesn't reflect the amount of people really looking for a single copy of the book. When the people who bought multiple copies drop down their unit consumption from 10 to 5 or less after a few arcs or there is less call for resale copies or what ever, it will take a while for the print runs to balance out. While there is an excess, the publisher is losing money from units not sold. If the loss from these books is sufficient it can cause problems for the publishers which if this sort of *SQUEE* keeps happening, can cause them to cease printing as happened to a lot of smaller publishers after the glut. If the publisher is large they may be able to bear the brunt of it but after seeing artificially produced large drops over a number of months can lead to premature stoppage of a line of books.

If everyone buys one copy of the book and tells their mates how cool it was and let them read it and they want to get their own copy the publishers get a more accurate view of their sales, print runs are raised to reflect actual response and interest and the publishers and lines can continue to put out material.

That is what I mean by creating false interest. Surely a longer run would be preferable to Shooter and fans alike and would be more deserved by Shooter and his first universe in 20 years?