VEI: has your view of them changed or strengthened?

Chiclo · Post by **Chiclo** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:30 am

Draco wrote:Logic tells me there will more likely be a revamp of Marvel Star comic before we see Valiant new titles again.

I saw somewhere that Marvel will be putting out a couple of comics with variant covers putting them in the Star line.

Draco · Post by **Draco** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:50 pm

Chiclo wrote:
Draco wrote:Logic tells me there will more likely be a revamp of Marvel Star comic before we see Valiant new titles again.

I saw somewhere that Marvel will be putting out a couple of comics with variant covers putting them in the Star line.

Well any news is good news.
Was it Care Bears or Royal Roy?

xodacia81 · Post by **xodacia81** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:05 pm

Draco wrote:
Chiclo wrote:
Draco wrote:Logic tells me there will more likely be a revamp of Marvel Star comic before we see Valiant new titles again.

I saw somewhere that Marvel will be putting out a couple of comics with variant covers putting them in the Star line.

Well any news is good news.
Was it Care Bears or Royal Roy?

Depends on where you're at. The UK, New Zealand, Australia and Canada are getting Royal Roy. Everyone else gets Care Bears.

Draco · Post by **Draco** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:35 pm

xodacia81 wrote:
Draco wrote:
Chiclo wrote:
Draco wrote:Logic tells me there will more likely be a revamp of Marvel Star comic before we see Valiant new titles again.

I saw somewhere that Marvel will be putting out a couple of comics with variant covers putting them in the Star line.

Well any news is good news.
Was it Care Bears or Royal Roy?

Depends on where you're at. The UK, New Zealand, Australia and Canada are getting Royal Roy. Everyone else gets Care Bears.

Damn thats harsh, but hey ill take it.

Todd Luck · Post by **Todd Luck** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:58 pm

To get back to the topic, I've stated in the past that despite any misgivings I might have about some actions of VEI or some of the people who make it up, that if they put out an actual comic series that looks decent, I'd give it a try.

But this lawsuit is just a whole new level of...I don't even know what to what to call it. Former Valiant characters have finally found a publisher with a proven track record with Jim Shooter writing them and the VEI lawsuit would put a stop to that.

In light of that, I don't think I could bring myself to buy anything VEI puts out anymore unless they drop the suit promptly. Not that that it matters. All they've put out so far is three hardcovers reprinting comics I already own and a lawsuit, and I don't think they're even doing the hardcovers anymore.

GJB · Post by **GJB** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:14 pm

They seemed like they were headed in the right direction when they started putting out the hard covers. Then, they lost me.

#1. I don't understand the ebay store at all. It's a judgement call on my part, but it seems cheap. Would a group of professional owners bother selling Valiant odds and ends on ebay? With no promotion? I don't think they would, they'd put more focus on the big picture. Maybe like getting comics published? I cannot prove it, but it seems to me stuff gets put up for sale from their "warehouse" that I doubt is where it came from. The art brochure they sold sits with me as something Dino bought from me years ago and later down the road it's a warehouse find? Did he find another one in this warehouse? I guess it's possible. Still appears shady.

#2. The testimonials of their employees is another sign of being bush league and unprofessional. There are too many negative testimonials for me to believe events are isolated.

#3. An announcement of a Harbinger movie was made pretty quickly, but they hire Jim Shooter as EIC and we hear nothing? That tells me exactly where their priorities are. Let me say it again, They hired Jim Shooter as EIC and told us nothing. That's crazy.

#4 This lawsuit seems petty and again, bush league. They probably got bit in the rear by their own greed and in order to save face, threw this lawsuit together to screw Jim Shooter because he has a legit opportunity with Dark Horse. They are pretty screwed IMO without Solar, Magnus and Turok to restart their universe. So they block DH. Nice. Stay classy.

#5 Why doesn't Dino post here anymore? Maybe he has a gag order, who knows, but by not posting here, it makes me feel like he chooses not to to avoid the hard questions we'd ask him about releasing comics. There's probably an agenda there that doesn't quite jive with what we want.

Add it all up and I don't see a well run organization that gives me confidence in a Valiant comics revival. It all feels second rate.

I will buy nothing from these clowns.

xodacia81 · Post by **xodacia81** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:22 pm

GJB wrote:They seemed like they were headed in the right direction when they started putting out the hard covers. Then, they lost me.

#1. I don't understand the ebay store at all. It's a judgement call on my part, but it seems cheap. Would a group of professional owners bother selling Valiant odds and ends on ebay? With no promotion? I don't think they would, they'd put more focus on the big picture. Maybe like getting comics published? I cannot prove it, but it seems to me stuff gets put up for sale from their "warehouse" that I doubt is where it came from. The art brochure they sold sits with me as something Dino bought from me years ago and later down the road it's a warehouse find? Did he find another one in this warehouse? I guess it's possible. Still appears shady.

#2. The testimonials of their employees is another sign of being bush league and unprofessional. There are too many negative testimonials for me to believe events are isolated.

#3. An announcement of a Harbinger movie was made pretty quickly, but they hire Jim Shooter as EIC and we hear nothing? That tells me exactly where their priorities are. Let me say it again, They hired Jim Shooter as EIC and told us nothing. That's crazy.

#4 This lawsuit seems petty and again, bush league. They probably got bit in the rear by their own greed and in order to save face, threw this lawsuit together to screw Jim Shooter because he has a legit opportunity with Dark Horse. They are pretty screwed IMO without Solar, Magnus and Turok to restart their universe. So they block DH. Nice. Stay classy.

#5 Why doesn't Dino post here anymore? Maybe he has a gag order, who knows, but by not posting here, it makes me feel like he chooses not to to avoid the hard questions we'd ask him about releasing comics. There's probably an agenda there that doesn't quite jive with what we want.

Add it all up and I don't see a well run organization that gives me confidence in a Valiant comics revival. It all feels second rate.

I will buy nothing from these clowns.

Well spoken. You bring up some good points. I think many feel the same way.

MoonChild · Post by **MoonChild** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:39 pm

Good Points but fact of the matter is VEI was trying to bring it all together dispite their lack of experience and resources so you gotta give them credit for that at least. Maybe not the best businessmen but they did really try to bring the fans what they really wanted which was Shooter as EIC and the Gold Key Properties to re-incorporate into the universe.

I also disagree about the point of needing the Gold Key characters to start a re-launch. Fact of the matter is: VEI owns all the best properties of the Valiant Universe Hands down. They really didnt need to go thru all this hell when they were and are sittin on a gold mine of their own this whole time. just my 2cents. Great Post BTW, agree with alot of it.

xodacia81 · Post by **xodacia81** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:04 pm

MoonChild wrote:Good Points but fact of the matter is VEI was trying to bring it all together dispite their lack of experience and resources so you gotta give them credit for that at least. Maybe not the best businessmen but they did really try to bring the fans what they really wanted which was Shooter as EIC and the Gold Key Properties to re-incorporate into the universe.

I also disagree about the point of needing the Gold Key characters to start a re-launch. Fact of the matter is: VEI owns all the best properties of the Valiant Universe Hands down. They really didnt need to go thru all this hell when they were and are sittin on a gold mine of their own this whole time. just my 2cents. Great Post BTW, agree with alot of it.

There was indeed an attempt. Me, I say let's wait and see what evidence (if any) comes to light as this case continues. I also have to say that Turok was never a favorite of mine and while Magnus was excellent, the only GK3 character that was vital was Solar, so at least one of them would have been nice to have. However, it wasn't to be.

jdmoonie77 · Post by **jdmoonie77** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:42 pm

AT THE BALTIMORE CON THIS PAST WEEKEND THE FOLKS AT DH SAID THE NEW GK BOOKS WILL BE RELEASED AS SCHEDULED IN THE SUMMER OF 2010!!! WITH SHOOTER BEING THE SOLE WRITER ON THE 3 INITIAL OFFERINGS, SOLAR, MAGNUS,TUROK. SO AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED IT'S A WRAP!!! DH HAS THE CHARACTERS AND SHOOTER WILL WRITE THEM PERIOD!!!!!!!

jdmoonie77 · Post by **jdmoonie77** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:45 pm

I AGREE WITH MOONCHILD. YOU STILL HAVE GREAT CHARACTERS!!! LETS JUST MOVE ON!!!!! VEI STOP WHINNING AND PUT OUT SOME NEW MATERIAL PERIOD!!!!!!

slym2none · Post by **slym2none** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:01 am

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 714AAgO4WB

-slym (TYCLO)

comicsyte95 · Post by **comicsyte95** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:59 am

jdmoonie77 wrote:AT THE BALTIMORE CON THIS PAST WEEKEND THE FOLKS AT DH SAID THE NEW GK BOOKS WILL BE RELEASED AS SCHEDULED IN THE SUMMER OF 2010!!! WITH SHOOTER BEING THE SOLE WRITER ON THE 3 INITIAL OFFERINGS, SOLAR, MAGNUS,TUROK. SO AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED IT'S A WRAP!!! DH HAS THE CHARACTERS AND SHOOTER WILL WRITE THEM PERIOD!!!!!!!

comicsyte95 · Post by **comicsyte95** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:00 am

slym2none wrote:http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 714AAgO4WB

-slym (TYCLO)

Draco · Post by **Draco** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:33 am

Todd Luck wrote:To get back to the topic, I've stated in the past that despite any misgivings I might have about some actions of VEI or some of the people who make it up, that if they put out an actual comic series that looks decent, I'd give it a try.

But this lawsuit is just a whole new level of...I don't even know what to what to call it. Former Valiant characters have finally found a publisher with a proven track record with Jim Shooter writing them and the VEI lawsuit would put a stop to that.

In light of that, I don't think I could bring myself to buy anything VEI puts out anymore unless they drop the suit promptly. Not that that it matters. All they've put out so far is three hardcovers reprinting comics I already own and a lawsuit, and I don't think they're even doing the hardcovers anymore.

Are you telling me you didnt like Marvel Star comics?

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:34 am

For my own view, well it is stupidly bloody complicated isn't it?

VEI:
- they are the rightful owners of the the VALIANT properties (a good thing)
- they started with a lot of good feeling from most of us (myself included) based on what we understood about their efforts, including expesne and the effort against the VIP tricks (a good thing)
- they released 3 hardcovers with some added value material (a good thing)
- the emphasis of their communications seemed to focus latterly (until their silence) on the possible movie deals (a concerning thing)
- comparison of buzz around possible movie options versus the silence (except for the 'drip drip' rumours to some board members it seems) around the apparent appointment of JimShooter (an odd and possibly concerning thing)
- subsequent lack of communications - no 'buzz' (a worrying thing)
- their business model did not seem prededicated on an established comic-book publishing model: 1. publish comic books; 2. publish collected editions of the same and older material; 3. spin off into other media licensing from this basis - they appeared to look at placing the primary focus of a traditional comic book publisher last based on perception of their public communications and lack of communications; this may be factually a wrong view of their model, but the perception of the consumer is a massive factor to a business selling products (not a good thing)
- dearth of product - nothing in a year (a bad thing)
- working with some established VALIANT alumini (a good thing)
- the concerns raised by some VALIANT creative alumni (a concerning thing)
- this legal action: if the facts are as they assert then Jim Shooter appears in the wrong; that said their case will be described in such a way to support their claims so without rebuttal it is hard to know which truth is the real one (on this I am ambivalent - hopefully justice and true facts will support the rightful party, whether VEI or Jim Shooter; but it certainly isn't a good thing as legal dispute can detract from other more pressing concerns about the core business plan - but see an earlier point for my view on that)

There is a lot to consider, probably a heck of a lot more than I have posted about.

I have had my reservations about VEI for a while now and have been vocal about them. In that I held a view about VEI and also a view (seperately) about Jim Shooter.

My concerns about VEI have not been helped either by the comments attributed to some past VALIANT creators, nor the secrecy around the appointment of Jim Shooter versus the press releases about a Hollywood movie option, which adds to the weight of concern of focus, and nor have they been allayed by the legal action. In that I have no opinion as to who is in the right in the action, but the very legal action itself is yet another distraction.

This latter worry may have caused VEI to burn some potential bridges with future possible creative collaborators, which is the ultimate worry of course. If all we are left with is the possiblity of a fanboy without the requisite writing experience or talent writing the hoped-for line instead of a recognisably experienced talent, then that would be massive concern. Not a guarantee, but just a worst-case scenario.

Ultimately as a consequence of the legal action and the views attributed to some past VALIANT creators that have emerged previously and in the wake of the action, I have more concerns about VEI's ability and/or desire to create a line of published comics than I had previously. And no, even though I have no view who is in the right or wrong about the legal action, I don't take at face value the VEI assertions that they were working towrd to some big VALIANT universe relaunch. 8 Months with Jim Shooter reportedly as EiC yet with what to show for it? Was anyone else tapped to do any books? It just doesn't add up.

As for Jim Shooter? Well, the accusations are strong. If they are proven true he will not have helped his repuation at all. If they are false I hope that he is able to rise above this mess. If nothing else, his career will always make for interesting reading...

Draco · Post by **Draco** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:36 am

nice post leon.

cjv · Post by **cjv** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:26 am

Todd Luck wrote:To get back to the topic, I've stated in the past that despite any misgivings I might have about some actions of VEI or some of the people who make it up, that if they put out an actual comic series that looks decent, I'd give it a try.

But this lawsuit is just a whole new level of...I don't even know what to what to call it. Former Valiant characters have finally found a publisher with a proven track record with Jim Shooter writing them and the VEI lawsuit would put a stop to that.

In light of that, I don't think I could bring myself to buy anything VEI puts out anymore unless they drop the suit promptly. Not that that it matters. All they've put out so far is three hardcovers reprinting comics I already own and a lawsuit, and I don't think they're even doing the hardcovers anymore.

Well, something to remember is that the stuff JS is writing for Dark Horse is not "Valiant'. Presumably he couldn't take the characters in the same directions as he did with Valiant. Not saying anything about what they might be like, but I am not just looking for anything that JS (or anyone else) puts out - I am looking for Valiant.

Chris

cjv · Post by **cjv** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:30 am

GJB wrote:#4 This lawsuit seems petty and again, bush league. They probably got bit in the rear by their own greed and in order to save face, threw this lawsuit together to screw Jim Shooter because he has a legit opportunity with Dark Horse. They are pretty screwed IMO without Solar, Magnus and Turok to restart their universe. So they block DH. Nice. Stay classy.

I think saying this is premature. We don't really know what happened - we many never know. If the VEI claims are true, and Shooter signed up with them, but was working behind their back with DH at the same time...well, Shooter comes off looking bad there.

On the other hand, if thigns are as Shooter (or JJ) claim, and he left and THEN went to pursue other options, then VEI looks pretty bad.

But I don't think you can assume one or the other at this point.

Chris

xodacia81 · Post by **xodacia81** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:16 am

cjv wrote:
GJB wrote:#4 This lawsuit seems petty and again, bush league. They probably got bit in the rear by their own greed and in order to save face, threw this lawsuit together to screw Jim Shooter because he has a legit opportunity with Dark Horse. They are pretty screwed IMO without Solar, Magnus and Turok to restart their universe. So they block DH. Nice. Stay classy.
I think saying this is premature. We don't really know what happened - we many never know. If the VEI claims are true, and Shooter signed up with them, but was working behind their back with DH at the same time...well, Shooter comes off looking bad there.

On the other hand, if thigns are as Shooter (or JJ) claim, and he left and THEN went to pursue other options, then VEI looks pretty bad.

But I don't think you can assume one or the other at this point.

Chris

Quite true. If the allegations in the suit are true, then Shooter screwed them over but good. If not, then they erred big time and are covering themselves. As you say, not enough info right now. Me, I can see both sides but, if Shooter did take ideas with him that were developed at VEI and was going to apply them at Dark Horse, that represents intellectual theft. Notice that I said IF.

Second_Death · Post by **Second_Death** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:42 am

Well, since I only heard about the lawsuit less than an hour ago and have not been educated to all information currently available, my initial impression of the action by VEI is negative. IMO, we could solve 99% of the problems we have as a society if we hung every lawyer in the country from the nearest tall tree. As with all fans who have been on the VALIANT wagon since the beginning, this is just another shot to the ribs. Not sure yet if the trip is worth it this time.

cinlach@aol.com · Post by **cinlach@aol.com** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:29 pm

I've stated this previously...I'll state it again.

My loyalties lie with whomever is actually going to produce the *SQUEE* books.

And if that makes me an *SQUEE*, well then it won't be the first time someone's thought that about me...and it probably won't be the last either.

hulk181man · Post by **hulk181man** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:33 pm

jdmoonie77 wrote:AT THE BALTIMORE CON THIS PAST WEEKEND THE FOLKS AT DH SAID THE NEW GK BOOKS WILL BE RELEASED AS SCHEDULED IN THE SUMMER OF 2010!!! WITH SHOOTER BEING THE SOLE WRITER ON THE 3 INITIAL OFFERINGS, SOLAR, MAGNUS,TUROK. SO AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED IT'S A WRAP!!! DH HAS THE CHARACTERS AND SHOOTER WILL WRITE THEM PERIOD!!!!!!!

Hey Moonie! It was great to bump into you there (again). It always gets my attention when I hear someone discussing Valiant back issues at a con.

Very few Valiant finds this year...Armorines 2 (Acclaim) and Solar 59 (Minty fresh copy) $1 each. O-X Cow O'War, Harby 6 w/coupon, Captain N 2, Armed & Dangerous Special for .33 cents each. That's about it.

slym2none · Post by **slym2none** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:27 am

cinlach@aol.com wrote:I've stated this previously...I'll state it again.

My loyalties lie with whomever is actually going to produce the *SQUEE* books.

And if that makes me an *SQUEE*, well then it won't be the first time someone's thought that about me...and it probably won't be the last either.

I have to say, for myself, that the VALIANT dream is dead as far as VEI is concerned. If Shooter, Layton, and a bunch of other writers and artists won't work with them, they aren't putting out the VALIANT I hoped for.

-slym

Brother J · Post by **Brother J** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:39 am

slym2none wrote:
cinlach@aol.com wrote:I've stated this previously...I'll state it again.

My loyalties lie with whomever is actually going to produce the *SQUEE* books.

And if that makes me an *SQUEE*, well then it won't be the first time someone's thought that about me...and it probably won't be the last either.
I have to say, for myself, that the VALIANT dream is dead as far as VEI is concerned. If Shooter, Layton, and a bunch of other writers and artists won't work with them, they aren't putting out the VALIANT I hoped for.

-slym

gotta agree with that.