world war hulk

[Moe's Tavern]

If you went into deep space and then came back to earth, so much time on earth would have passed you could be hundreds of years into the future. Comics books are so unrealistic!

[Chiclo]

There once was a young woman of Wight
Who travelled faster than light
She departed one day
And in a relative way
She arrived the previous night.

It's all relative.

[Knightt]

Planet Hulk has been the only time ever that I have been even remotely interested in the Hulk other than to see Iron Man take him on, or in the "Big Things" arc which I also thought was done well.

The Planet Hulk story is awesome, IMO.

What ? IM take on Hulk ? IM just got his *SQUEE* handed to him by Cap (yeah with some help from the Vision) but still the suit just can't stand up to big ol Green and Mean. The Hulk is probably the biggest and baddest can opener in the Marvel Universe. If there is anything that will 'unite' the heroes after Civil War it will be the Hulk returning to Earth and the hereos uniting with a 'hey guys, lets let bygones be bygones cause the Hulk is back and I am pretty sure he can kill and eat ALL of us seperately. So everybody find a moving buddy and lets come up with a plan... who has got Galactus' number ?'

Chris! I'm disapointed in you man! You must not have been reading that Iron Man v1 collection that you've been putting together. Not to mention now that we have Extremis Iron Man.....
IM always seems to get shafted anyway. In the Crossing (I can't believe I'm citing the Crossing), Stark had anti Vision measures ready, and now suddenly he doesn't. -eh-
IM put the Hulk down with one punch, and since then, his armor has been upgraded exponentially. It'd still be a fight, but by the numbers it should be one sided. The Hulk is the strongest there is, but IM is the apex of continuous improvement.

Well then school me a bit, dude. I am missing something here as you are using names/terminology that I am not aware of.

[IMJ]

Well then school me a bit, dude. I am missing something here as you are using names/terminology that I am not aware of.

In the Bronze Age area of volume 1, after a drawn out toe to toe battle, Iron Man put the Hulk down with a single punch using his classic armor (off the top of my head I think it was 132 or something). It fried the armor but that's not the point, the point is that it was a decisive toe to toe victory. The armor has improved over the years and therefore should be more capable now than it was then (although writers have trouble with this on occassion).

In the recent Volume 4 Extremis arc, Iron Man underwent changes that amplified his power to a significant degree. There was some debate in Iron Man circles that in reality Iron Man was doing nothing new that he hadn't been demonstrated as doing in the past, but that these abilities were lost to writers and readers over the years. Extremis just brought a lot of that back to the forefront. "Now" Iron Man is exhibiting greater strength (see Extremis arc and the first arc by the Knauf's where IM puts Graviton down singlehandly where the Avengers could not). His speed has been enhanced too, shown to a level that makes him faster than probably any other Earth bound flyer in the Marvel U. Extremis was also adpated to allow Stark remote interface to nearly any technology around him; put succintly he "can see through satellites now".

Incidentally, we are talking about a character that is supposed to be so intelligent that really, he can find ways to circumvent nearly any foes defense or strength that he may not be able to match toe to toe. Again though, these are things that get lost on writers for some years now. In my opinion, the Knauf's (current IM team) are doing a fantastic job in nearly every respect.

I could go on forever with more support or Iron Man feats; so just take my word for it. The character should almost always be able to beat the Hulk; but rather than using that paradigm and rising to the writing challenge of how to deal with a powerhouse like Iron Man, they just dumb the whole thing down in an easier effort to write a gripping story. Me? If I was writing comics, I'd hold myself accountable the same way I do for everything else and rise to the challenge instead of tucking away from it.

[Elveen]

Well then school me a bit, dude. I am missing something here as you are using names/terminology that I am not aware of.

In the Bronze Age area of volume 1, after a drawn out toe to toe battle, Iron Man put the Hulk down with a single punch using his classic armor (off the top of my head I think it was 132 or something). It fried the armor but that's not the point, the point is that it was a decisive toe to toe victory. The armor has improved over the years and therefore should be more capable now than it was then (although writers have trouble with this on occassion).

In the recent Volume 4 Extremis arc, Iron Man underwent changes that amplified his power to a significant degree. There was some debate in Iron Man circles that in reality Iron Man was doing nothing new that he hadn't been demonstrated as doing in the past, but that these abilities were lost to writers and readers over the years. Extremis just brought a lot of that back to the forefront. "Now" Iron Man is exhibiting greater strength (see Extremis arc and the first arc by the Knauf's where IM puts Graviton down singlehandly where the Avengers could not). His speed has been enhanced too, shown to a level that makes him faster than probably any other Earth bound flyer in the Marvel U. Extremis was also adpated to allow Stark remote interface to nearly any technology around him; put succintly he "can see through satellites now".

Incidentally, we are talking about a character that is supposed to be so intelligent that really, he can find ways to circumvent nearly any foes defense or strength that he may not be able to match toe to toe. Again though, these are things that get lost on writers for some years now. In my opinion, the Knauf's (current IM team) are doing a fantastic job in nearly every respect.

I could go on forever with more support or Iron Man feats; so just take my word for it. The character should almost always be able to beat the Hulk; but rather than using that paradigm and rising to the writing challenge of how to deal with a powerhouse like Iron Man, they just dumb the whole thing down in an easier effort to write a gripping story. Me? If I was writing comics, I'd hold myself accountable the same way I do for everything else and rise to the challenge instead of tucking away from it.

Very interesting post. Thanks for the knowledge.

[Squirrel]

You just dropped the science like Galilao dropped the orange (via Beastie Boys)

[Knightt]

Well then school me a bit, dude. I am missing something here as you are using names/terminology that I am not aware of.

In the Bronze Age area of volume 1, after a drawn out toe to toe battle, Iron Man put the Hulk down with a single punch using his classic armor (off the top of my head I think it was 132 or something). It fried the armor but that's not the point, the point is that it was a decisive toe to toe victory. The armor has improved over the years and therefore should be more capable now than it was then (although writers have trouble with this on occassion).

In the recent Volume 4 Extremis arc, Iron Man underwent changes that amplified his power to a significant degree. There was some debate in Iron Man circles that in reality Iron Man was doing nothing new that he hadn't been demonstrated as doing in the past, but that these abilities were lost to writers and readers over the years. Extremis just brought a lot of that back to the forefront. "Now" Iron Man is exhibiting greater strength (see Extremis arc and the first arc by the Knauf's where IM puts Graviton down singlehandly where the Avengers could not). His speed has been enhanced too, shown to a level that makes him faster than probably any other Earth bound flyer in the Marvel U. Extremis was also adpated to allow Stark remote interface to nearly any technology around him; put succintly he "can see through satellites now".

Incidentally, we are talking about a character that is supposed to be so intelligent that really, he can find ways to circumvent nearly any foes defense or strength that he may not be able to match toe to toe. Again though, these are things that get lost on writers for some years now. In my opinion, the Knauf's (current IM team) are doing a fantastic job in nearly every respect.

I could go on forever with more support or Iron Man feats; so just take my word for it. The character should almost always be able to beat the Hulk; but rather than using that paradigm and rising to the writing challenge of how to deal with a powerhouse like Iron Man, they just dumb the whole thing down in an easier effort to write a gripping story. Me? If I was writing comics, I'd hold myself accountable the same way I do for everything else and rise to the challenge instead of tucking away from it.

Yeah but the Hulk gets mad.... REAAAAAL MAD.

[leonmallett]

Well then school me a bit, dude. I am missing something here as you are using names/terminology that I am not aware of.

In the Bronze Age area of volume 1, after a drawn out toe to toe battle, Iron Man put the Hulk down with a single punch using his classic armor (off the top of my head I think it was 132 or something). It fried the armor but that's not the point, the point is that it was a decisive toe to toe victory. The armor has improved over the years and therefore should be more capable now than it was then (although writers have trouble with this on occassion).

In the recent Volume 4 Extremis arc, Iron Man underwent changes that amplified his power to a significant degree. There was some debate in Iron Man circles that in reality Iron Man was doing nothing new that he hadn't been demonstrated as doing in the past, but that these abilities were lost to writers and readers over the years. Extremis just brought a lot of that back to the forefront. "Now" Iron Man is exhibiting greater strength (see Extremis arc and the first arc by the Knauf's where IM puts Graviton down singlehandly where the Avengers could not). His speed has been enhanced too, shown to a level that makes him faster than probably any other Earth bound flyer in the Marvel U. Extremis was also adpated to allow Stark remote interface to nearly any technology around him; put succintly he "can see through satellites now".

Incidentally, we are talking about a character that is supposed to be so intelligent that really, he can find ways to circumvent nearly any foes defense or strength that he may not be able to match toe to toe. Again though, these are things that get lost on writers for some years now. In my opinion, the Knauf's (current IM team) are doing a fantastic job in nearly every respect.

I could go on forever with more support or Iron Man feats; so just take my word for it. The character should almost always be able to beat the Hulk; but rather than using that paradigm and rising to the writing challenge of how to deal with a powerhouse like Iron Man, they just dumb the whole thing down in an easier effort to write a gripping story. Me? If I was writing comics, I'd hold myself accountable the same way I do for everything else and rise to the challenge instead of tucking away from it.

Yeah but the Hulk gets mad.... REAAAAAL MAD.

I have a sneaking suspicion that IMJ is slightly biased toward Iron Man. In the issue IMJ cited he took the Hulk down - I can't comment I haven't read the book. Well what about the classic Byrne Hulk issue (316) where Iron Man, Hercules, Namor and Wonder Man are unable to quickly subdue the angry one?

[Zool]

Ah... citing precident in comics debates, gotta love it.

The beauty of any big continuity is that on any given day, most of the big players (or even the little guys) could take any of the others down (to go 'cross country' on this, the whole Batman vs Superman debate is a prime example).

Iron Man is a great character, and of course, in his many decades of history he has he has put Green-and-Angry down a few times (and vice versa). But to expect it to play out like that every time denies the reader (me) a massive amount of fun.

The notion of World War Hulk implies that full strength Tony, SHIELD, Dr Strange and anyone else drafted in to take down Banner is going to have a nightmare... and I wouldn't want it any other way.

It's either that or we call Doc Ock (who took out Hulk single handed in Vegas one time) or Tony could manipulate Juggernaut into doing it and call it day, or maybe Abomination could etc etc.

I've been getting increasingly in to Iron Man in the last year or so, and I've looked up a few things on IMJ's recommendation (the last issue of CW: FRONTLINE for instance), he's one of the more complex figureheads of the MU and is extremely interesting in terms of capabilities, but...
HULK's going to rip that suits head clean off

[Knightt]

Hey for the record, "I" did not start this geekfest '07 debate.

I don't even READ comics.

(ducks)

[leonmallett]

Hey for the record, "I" did not start this geekfest '07 debate.

I don't even READ comics.
(ducks)

No you just COLLECT boxes of the damn things!

[leonmallett]

Anywar IMJ's slight bias aside, I am sure the general consensus is that an angry Hulk is one scary prospect.


<Says Leon, embracing his inner geek!>

[Knightt]

Hey for the record, "I" did not start this geekfest '07 debate.

I don't even READ comics.
(ducks)

No you just COLLECT boxes of the damn things!

I bought my house to store my comics... nothing more.

[IMJ]

Anyway IMJ's slight bias aside, I am sure the general consensus is that an angry Hulk is one scary prospect.

This is an interesting point. But here the real question is this:

Is it bias (no offense taken to this by the way... I completely understand your use of the term here) in that I'm defending the character I'm into, or is everything I'm saying true which are reasons that I got into the character in the first place?

The fact is that Iron Man / Stark is a character that hypothetically could pounce on any other character that came his way. He's got a ridiculous amount of muscle when in the armor, and when that doesn't work he can draw from an intellect that few can match. I'd argue that in many ways, Stark is more effective than Batman in that respect (now in that particular argument, I would note the bias that you mentioned but not this one). Finally, he has the resources at his disposal to actually facilitate nearly anything that that intellect could produce. Therefore there are 3 facets to this character that cover nearly all the bases that I think make him fascinating.

The fact is in most situations, Stark would find a way to defeat the Hulk be it physically (although not often), psychologically or intellectually; and he'd have the ability and resouces to do it every time.

For the record, I'm not neccessarily looking for everyone on Earth to agree with me here, but citing that "Hulk is the strongest there is" doesn't make it true. That character is a powerhouse, absolutely. But that's about all that character is. The Hulk should be positioned as an Id/Ego character to make him fascinating; and then add touches of the superhero element in there. What makes Hulk cool is that he's primal and just rips $#!) apart. What it doesn't mean is that he is the end all be all in a fight. I think the Powell doctrine is a work of military art, but overwhelming force only works if you can administer it.

[stone384]

And let's not forget that Stark now has all of SHIELD to throw at the hulk. That is a lot of fodder.
m

[siren3-4]

Anyway IMJ's slight bias aside, I am sure the general consensus is that an angry Hulk is one scary prospect.

This is an interesting point. But here the real question is this:

Is it bias (no offense taken to this by the way... I completely understand your use of the term here) in that I'm defending the character I'm into, or is everything I'm saying true which are reasons that I got into the character in the first place?

The fact is that Iron Man / Stark is a character that hypothetically could pounce on any other character that came his way. He's got a ridiculous amount of muscle when in the armor, and when that doesn't work he can draw from an intellect that few can match. I'd argue that in many ways, Stark is more effective than Batman in that respect (now in that particular argument, I would note the bias that you mentioned but not this one). Finally, he has the resources at his disposal to actually facilitate nearly anything that that intellect could produce. Therefore there are 3 facets to this character that cover nearly all the bases that I think make him fascinating.

The fact is in most situations, Stark would find a way to defeat the Hulk be it physically (although not often), psychologically or intellectually; and he'd have the ability and resouces to do it every time.

For the record, I'm not neccessarily looking for everyone on Earth to agree with me here, but citing that "Hulk is the strongest there is" doesn't make it true. That character is a powerhouse, absolutely. But that's about all that character is. The Hulk should be positioned as an Id/Ego character to make him fascinating; and then add touches of the superhero element in there. What makes Hulk cool is that he's primal and just rips $#!) apart. What it doesn't mean is that he is the end all be all in a fight. I think the Powell doctrine is a work of military art, but overwhelming force only works if you can administer it.

The Hulk in his highest form (as Iron Man is now) is a force of nature. It is the beast within all of us personified in a single being that has no limit to how strong he can get, no pain threshold, the ability to heal from any wound and the determination to back it up.

Hulk is no longer a simpleton, distracted by a light bulb. He’s not Banner smart but is no slouch either. His power and ability limites have never been reached and I feel like we may get to see this happen . . . which is why I’m so giddy about WWH

All that was left at the end of the world was the Hulk and Cockroaches . . .