Will we ever get the official scoop on who VIP was/were?

[BloodOfHeroes]

Is it possible that Priest confused VIP and VEI?

No, the quote from Priest was from the morning of the auction.

Thanks, man. I missed a lot, it seems.

BoH

[ManofTheAtom]

No one has brought up that Lone Ranger, a comic published by Dynamite, is a property owned by the same company that owns Solar, Magnus, and Turok.

I don't like the idea of VIP's owners having a relationship with Golden/Random...

[cinlach@aol.com]

I was going to buy Zorro #1 from Dynamite tomorrow, but now I've decided against it based purely on this thread. Put that in your pipe and smoke it VIP

if dynamite entertainment published a new "jack of hearts" or "poison elves" book beginning next month i wouldn't buy them if they were printed on $100 bills.

[cjv]

Is it possible that Priest confused VIP and VEI?

No, the quote from Priest was from the morning of the auction.
VEI didn't take charge (didn't really exist) until a week or so later.
(By "didn't exist", I mean VEI wouldn't have been called VEI that early.)

In other words, VIP waited until just before the auction to file for trademarks,
then on the day of the auction they didn't attend, didn't bid,
and "released" the info about Q&W on Newsarama while
the bidders were involved in the acquisition of the assets.
(VIP had talked to Priest prior to the auction... back when Taddeo
was assumed to be the one who would win the assets.)

VIP knew exactly what they were doing, playing "spoiler"...
What VIP didn't know is that the Q&W situation wasn't how they thought it was.

TimeWillTell clarified later that Q&W belonged to Acclaim (and now VEI)
even though it appeared that there might have been a special case at one time.
VIP jumped the gun on that special case... which didn't apply anymore...
and made an announcement about the one property they thought they had.
(Actually, VIP believed Priest & Bright owned Q&W, and VIP had the trademark application.)

VIP never owned anything of content. They didn't even attempt to get content.
They attempted to register trademarks (which would be labels/titles only)
and when they couldn't get any content, they made up some ridiculous
replacements in that ashcan for the trademarks they were seeking.

They also attempted to use trademarks they didn't own in that ashcan,
so VIP was either an inept lawyer acting on his own, or a shady mystery man
who's not real bright, and a lawyer who had to try to clean up the mess.

Where's the chart?

Chris

[greg]

Is it possible that Priest confused VIP and VEI?

No, the quote from Priest was from the morning of the auction.
VEI didn't take charge (didn't really exist) until a week or so later.
(By "didn't exist", I mean VEI wouldn't have been called VEI that early.)

In other words, VIP waited until just before the auction to file for trademarks,
then on the day of the auction they didn't attend, didn't bid,
and "released" the info about Q&W on Newsarama while
the bidders were involved in the acquisition of the assets.
(VIP had talked to Priest prior to the auction... back when Taddeo
was assumed to be the one who would win the assets.)

VIP knew exactly what they were doing, playing "spoiler"...
What VIP didn't know is that the Q&W situation wasn't how they thought it was.

TimeWillTell clarified later that Q&W belonged to Acclaim (and now VEI)
even though it appeared that there might have been a special case at one time.
VIP jumped the gun on that special case... which didn't apply anymore...
and made an announcement about the one property they thought they had.
(Actually, VIP believed Priest & Bright owned Q&W, and VIP had the trademark application.)

VIP never owned anything of content. They didn't even attempt to get content.
They attempted to register trademarks (which would be labels/titles only)
and when they couldn't get any content, they made up some ridiculous
replacements in that ashcan for the trademarks they were seeking.

They also attempted to use trademarks they didn't own in that ashcan,
so VIP was either an inept lawyer acting on his own, or a shady mystery man
who's not real bright, and a lawyer who had to try to clean up the mess.

Where's the chart?

Chris

http://www.valiantfans.com/images/Lovit ... ighted.gif

[ncameron]

And if you read all of that, I have a free Ninjak Gold for you...

Is it too late to get one?
That was quite the post.

-neil

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

I finally got bored enough to read this...

First off...I find it very telling that you have chosen to cut out those parts of my statements that are most troublesome to you and your "arguments", and include only those comments which you feel you have the strength to respond to.

You'll note, when I respond to someone, I include EVERYTHING they say, so no one can accuse me of quoting (and thus responding) out of context.

The same cannot be said of you.

That's fine. There are certainly people who think the world is a flat disc around which the sun, moon, and stars rotate. I don't agree with them, either.

Evidently agreeing to disagree is something you are unwilling or incapable of doing. So be it.

I only agree to disagree about things which are in the realm of OPINION, not fact. It has already been established that there will be no official word concerning who VIP is/was. This is fact.

When someone comes along and challenges established facts, I'm not going to "agree to disagree" with that. I'm going to point out their errors in logic and reason.

[geomancer quote] Clearly fellow members do not feel this way or share this view so why try to interfere wit its continuation?

You're going to have to be specific, here. Which members? And "which way"? Which "view" is not shared?

If you mean that the obviousness of….

It seems evident from your posting that you believe there will be nothing further from any of the parties involved or with firsthand knowledge of the events relating to the filings and lawsuit. This is the view that is not shared. As to which members, read through the thread again yourself.

No, see, this is where you don't understand: I don't BELIEVE there will be nothing further, because you are talking about THE FUTURE, and about the FUTURE, I have only conjecture, not beliefs (aside from certain eschatological considerations that have no bearing on this conversation.)

If anyone who has signed a confidentiality agreement breaks that agreement, they will be liable and can be sued. Is it possible that someone could be convinced to break that agreement? Of course. Is it likely? No.

And when someone asks you a direct question, please don't answer with "find it for yourself"...that's a weak copout, and tells me you cannot support your positions with evidence.

As far as "interferring", cleary you have not bothered to read a word I typed. No one can "interfere" with any topic here. It's impossible for a regular member to "interfere" in ANY discussion.

I’m sorry but I have to be blunt and say that is empty rhetoric on your part.

I'm sorry but I have to be blunt and say this is a complete and utter failure to grasp the concept of what was said.

It is impossible, once again, for any member to interfere with any conversation around here, because THAT is the tone of the board.

Even you know I’ve been reading the words you have been writing here.

When I said "read", the definition of "read" that I was using was "understood, comprehended." You did not comprehend what was said.

I’ve already outlined what I consider interference, feel free to disagree.

And I've already told you, THIS BOARD EN TOTO does NOT agree with what "you consider" inteference. It doesn't matter what *I* think...it's what the board, as a WHOLE, thinks. I am just voicing that concept.

If you don't like the contribution of a certain member, instead of complaining about it, as you are doing here, and falsely accusing people of "interferring", allow me to introduce you to the "ignore" feature on this message board:

Take your own advice. Introduce yourself to the ignore feature.

I LOVE when someone throws this statement out. It's invariable. What you don't seem to grasp is that I ENJOY this. Why on EARTH would I IGNORE it then?

See, here's the difference: you're the one who complained...bitterly...about what you considered "disparagement", "disruption", "interference", "mocking"....YOU were the only, CLEARLY, who had the issue. Therefore, it behooves you to, instead of whining and complaining about what OTHER members post, to IGNORE them, if you genuinely have a problem with them...if you're TRULY concerned about peace and harmony on the board.

*I*, on the contrary, have ZERO problem with anything you may have to say, and am not complaining about any of it. I simply am correcting your errors in logic and reason. I have no personal issue with you.

Remember: YOU threw down the gauntlet, so you cannot complain when someone with more than enough means to challenge you picks it up.

The thread has "been on track" the entire time.

This back and forth is a side track. One we are both guilty of and seem to be destined to continue on with.

Oh, for sure...but it's a track you walked down...I just followed.

Had you simply ignored The Leaf's statement, and my compliment of said statement, instead of making a federal case out of it, NOTHING WOULD HAVE COME OF IT, and the thread would have continued as it has, only without these periodic "interferrances."

And the same goes for your counterresponses. Saying that I’m the one who has made a federal case of it is hypocritical.

You made a huge issue of nothing. Nothing! I responded to that. My response was commensurate with your response (as they almost always are.) Your response was NOT commensurate with what YOU were responding to.

You need some perspective, my friend.

In other words: YOU, by wildly overreacting, created this whole tête - à - tête we now have going on.

See how that works?

That would be my view of your responses. See how that works?

Yes, I see how that works. But your view is wrong. Anyone with half a brain can pinpoint EXACTLY where this started: your response to The Leaf's comment, and my compliment (which had nothing to do with you.) Again, where did you learn how to debate?

What you're doing is to get someone to violate an NDA. You want "official" word. The only way you are going to get "official" word is if someone violates an NDA.

There is an OUTSIDE....very SLIM....chance that SOMEONE who is not party to the NDA coud tell you "for sure" who VIP was....but that would not be OFFICIAL (since you're parsing, let's parse all the way), since the OFFICIAL parties involved are under an NDA, and, of course, those parties would now DENY this information, since it is now part of an NDA. See how that works?

Man of the Atom already pointed out one candidate. Perhaps Brian Cronin with his resources and connections could unearth another. You can assume failure from the start and never try while we can discuss ways of trying to succeed.

Again, do you see how that works?

Let me explain where you missed it YET AGAIN: Christopher Priest knows quite well who he spoke to. But he is not VIP. He is not VEI. Therefore...follow the logic, here...therefore, anything he says WOULD NOT BE OFFICIAL, because, if you went to the people he claimed was VIP, they would DENY it...because either they 1. really AREN'T VIP, or 2. are under a binding agreement to NOT reveal that information.

I do not ASSUME failure....and YOU are not trying to succeed: you're looking for information that you are not legally entitled to. Simply put, you're sticking your nose where it doesn't belong.

Again, do you see how that works?

I HAVE the answer to the question that I am satisfied with, and so does most everyone else. I do not NEED to stick my nose where it doesn't belong, and tempt people to violate agreements and expose them to potential litigation.

So why do you....?

You are laboring under the impression that anyone has disparaged this thread.

Please point out to me, in these two posts, where the "disparagement" is:

I shared my list of behaviors I consider to be trolling. That was one of them, and not the most relevant to this situation.

Well...guess what? Your "consideration" isn't shared by "the board" as a whole.

I notice, of course, that you failed to answer the question.

If you're going to choose to be offended by innocuous statements like this, you're not going to do well in social situations. I suggest you develop a MUCH, MUCH thicker skin before trying.

That’s my impression of you.

Again, *I* wasn't the one who launched a crusade against "disparagement", "mocking", "trolling", etc.

But by all means, don't let logic stand in your way.

Have YOU ever hung out in a social situation, and forced people to stay on a particular topic until YOU were satisfied with said topic...?

True that would be awkward. It would also be awkward if two or more people were having a conversation and someone else dropped in and randomly said something tangential and strange.

In real life.....not on a message board. Completely different social interaction dynamics.

Just so there is no misunderstanding, by this I’m referring to observed behaviors in general and not necessarily this thread.

I'm sure Jedi, Myron, Woog, Hobo, and Depluto all got a laugh when they read that you think I am used to people "deferring" to me, as if I hold some high position of esteem around here.

I didn’t say they did, I inquired.

Let's boil it down, then: I'm not. Quite the contrary.

Fair enough?

And as I think YOU can already tell, I TRULY don't care what your opinion of me is. I say what I have to say, and I expect others to say what they have to say. If they like what I have to say, great. If they challenge what I have to say, they better be prepared to back it up. If they don't like what I have to say, ignore me.

So here’s the part where you don’t care. Okay. That doesn’t match up with what you said earlier how people should care, does it?

I'm having a real problem understanding why you have such a difficult time comprehending these simple concepts. So, let me break it down for you again:

I care very much for many people on this board. I care very much what 400, Hobo, Jedi, Myron, Woog, Greg (usually. ), Depluto, Chain, Dr. Solar, BTE, etc etc etc have to say. Why? Because I've spent YEARS with many of them, we've had our back and forths, we've shared real life experiences, etc. We have formed a BOND amongst each other. We value each other, and respect each other. We do business with each other, and we know each other.

You? Who are you?

As far as I can tell, you're someone who's been around for a year, hasn't contributed much of anything worth note (IN MY OPINION), and now the first impression you make on me is complaining about what and how other people post on a message board.

So, no, I don't particularly care what you have to say about me. You likely don't care what *I* have to say about you, either.

See? Do you see the difference, here?

There are people here on the board who have been members for a month and a half who have contributed FAR more than you have in a year (hey Smashey!)

Now, don't get upset and imagine that this means you're worth less and have less value as a member simply because you don't post a lot. Not true. It simply means that I have no frame of reference for you, and when your first noticeable contribution to the board is complaining about others....tell me why I should care....?

Otherwise I seem to have a similar standard as to what you’ve expressed here.

Yeah, I'm going to have a hard time believing that, given all of...THIS...

I have said what I believe regarding "elite" status on these boards, and don't care to go into them at this time. There are plenty of posts on that matter; a bit of research on them will lead you to them, if you are interested. Suffice it to say, every poster on this board is equal to every other poster, and lives or dies by the merits of their posts...and nothing else, not post count, not pecking order, not social status....changes that. .

With all sincerity, that’s great.

Clearly, you have not. CLEARLY! You completely and wildly overreact to a couple of throwaway sentences, and then go on and on about "respect" and "mocking" and "derailing threads"....and you expect anyone to believe you have ANY understanding of how things operate around here....?

.

I think an objective third party would say the overreaction is mutual here.

I think an objective third party will see two innocent comments that were seized upon by you and wildly overreacted to.

We now know how each other will proceed from here on out.

True!

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

And if you read all of that, I have a free Ninjak Gold for you...

I did read it all and thoroughly enjoyed it dude.

Many thanks for the kind offer of the free ninjak but i already have one.

not like this you dont!

"She's flying standing up?"

"No, no, she's...uh...she's standing on a mountain! Here, look <scribble, scribble>...here it is!"

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

Wow! You are like a textbook study in classic internet deflection technique! <snip>

You clearly aren't used to debating with someone who can not only debate your words, but the innuendo, implication, and psychology behind them as well, are you?

Oh, and the correct phrase is "of which you are accusing me."

Watch your preposition placement.

Heh. Like Teflon.

Wha....? WHA...?

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

not like this you dont!

It's the grammatically correct variant.

Did you get one.....? Are you on the list?

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

And if you read all of that, I have a free Ninjak Gold for you...

pay up b!tch.

wait, no i'm lying...that made my eyes hurt.

I KNOW you already got yours!

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

i'd be surprised if priest or bright would be willing to discuss this vip situation at all.

Me too.

forget a potential nda, i just think they might be tired of dealing with all this mess over something like Q&W...i mean, we're not talking watchmen here.

and for a book to be in the top 100 in 1995, does that mean they sold 5,000 copies?

impressive.

Quantum and Woody wasn't published in 1995....are you talking about another book?

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

i'd be surprised if priest or bright would be willing to discuss this vip situation at all

VIP did them as much wrong as they did VEI with their replacement Q&W.

Unless Priest and Bright were involved in the lawsuit along with VEI vs VIP, I don't see why they would need to stay quiet.

But be that as it may, like I said, at best Brian could get a straight answer, and at worse he'll get a "no comment".

Naturally.

What would Priest or Bright tell us that we don't already "know"...?

But it wouldn't be official. That's the point.

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

My apologies....

This

I exchanged the words "Non-Disclosure Agreement"

sure

(which words were used when the information was related to me)

is

with "Confidentiality Agreement".

alot

I apologize for not being a lawyer,

of

and using the terms interchangeably.

work.

SEE? It's not EASY to do that properly, especially when others screw it up before you!

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

Wow! You are like a textbook study in classic internet deflection technique!

This is coming from a guy who resorting to literally nothing more than simple name calling just a little while back?

Really? Where? And would you mind actually ANSWERING the question this time, instead of cutting it out or ignoring it?

I am guilty of choosing antagonistic wording or name calling myself, but you offer little more than that and want to publicly pat yourself on the back for your debating skill?

Absolutely. I answer every single one of your points directly, using all the (considerable) logic and reason at my command.

You, on the other hand, have tried many tricks of the book with your oblique insults, your coy wording, and your refusal to answer many of my points directly.

EVEN NOW you are trying to play the game, by minimizing my logic and reason to "little more than antagonism and name calling."

Please. Are you serious?

I have ZERO problem with ANYONE who wants to be logical and reasonable. I have ZERO problem with great discussion and debate, and even fine and subtle distinctions in meaning, WITHOUT antagonism. You have done none of those things.

He is attempting to get the audience to think he is more "enlightened" than me, because he implies that HE is at least aware of his flaws, by "pointing out" how I remain blissfully ignorant of mine. Classic!

That’s something the ‘audience’ will have to judge for itself.

That doesn't change the attempt.

If I have brought something out in Zephyr

Let me introduce myself: I am ZWH, or Z, or Zeph. "Zephyr" is a female character in the comic book title "Harbinger."

that the board has never seen before from him, then I apologize to the board.

I'm sorry, why are you apologizing to the board for someone else's behavior? That is an incredibly arrogant thing to do. It is not up to YOU to determine what the board as a whole has a problem with. Who are you to apologize for someone else, when others may not even have a PROBLEM with what they say? How rude. There's undoubtedly people who quite enjoyed my posts.

And....you clearly have read very, very little on this board, because you know very little about me.

Here's a suggestion you should seriously consider: visit Topic Oblivion. Read through the "At what point do you say Enough?" thread.

Then stop making such ridiculous, arrogant comments.

However, if this is not the first time – then what is happening now was and will continue to be inevitable.

Here's another classic internet mindscrew: attempt to garner favor from the readers by implying that the behavior of your debate opponent is aberrant, and then apologize for it.

And you know what? THE BOARD knows me. They know what to expect from me. So you saying that won't be swaying any opinions about me anytime soon.

Here's a clue, kid: it takes two...ALWAYS...to have "what is happening now." ONE person cannot have an "argument" all by themselves. It takes TWO.

YOU are just as guilty...in fact, moreso, since this whole thing was begun by YOU....of "what is happening now."

Seriously, where did you learn to debate...?

You clearly aren't used to debating with someone who can not only debate your words, but the innuendo, implication, and psychology behind them as well, are you?

There is nothing overly sophisticated going on here. There is no innuendo, there are no implications or any complex psychology involved. Its a simple *SQUEE* contest.

Human beings are complex beings. EVERYTHING human beings do, regardless of how simple it may appear on the surface, involves complex psychology. Nothing, in fact, is more complex in life than human interaction dynamics.

So there's ALWAYS innuendo, ALWAYS implication, and ALWAYS complex psychology in ANY human interaction. Most people just aren't aware of it.

But you’ve made this place a home and I’m not planning on going anywhere.

That's great! We need more people in the fanbase.

I respect that you won’t back down and I am not going to be doing that either.

That's fine....eventually, Greg will probably step in and tell us to cut it out and FORCEFULLY stop it.

I suspect you are used to people simply choosing to give up sooner or later

No, I am used to having reasonable, rational discussions with reasonable, rational people. These sorts of things only happen occasionally, when someone feels (quite wrongly) that their "internet masculinity" has been challenged.

, and that expectation is going to have to change.

Hi! You haven't met Greg, have you...?

People like me are going to be coming out of the woodwork in greater numbers as Valiant re-emerges as a present-day publishing company.

Again, that's great! But "people like you" are incredibly rare. There are only two people on this board who stubbornly insist on carrying discussions long past the point of boredom for everyone else...myself and Mota. My persistence is LEGENDARY. In many ways, that's a good and admirable trait...in many ways, that's not.

It is what it is.

Greg's patience, however, is not. He'll allow us to continue so long as we don't get personally insulting (which we haven't *quite* yet) or until he gets tired of the whole discussion completely, and off to Topic Oblivion we'll go.

That's the way things work around here.

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

This thread was fun and interesting

until it got long and boring

It is still mildly amusing

What is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting the outcome to be different the definition of.........?

Tenacity!

Tenacious Z should SO be my new custom sig.....

[TKWill]

also, several of us have looked at the art in the VIP "tr"ashcan and said, "damn...that looks a lot like jae lee."

check this link homeskillet...

http://books.monstersandcritics.com/com ... ed_in_July

Dynamic Forces president Nick Barrucci said he was proud to have helped bring Hellshock back to comic-reading audiences.
"Jae is not only a top talent in this business, but he’s also a close personal friend," said Barrucci. "Working with him on this project, and presenting a completed HELLSHOCK to the fans has been a truly rewarding experience."

it's been my experience that 1 + 1 almost always = 2.

"hey jae, remember when i helped publish that hellshock book for ya? how about knocking out some 5 minutes sketches for me! you da man pal!"

suck on that VIP.

Times have changed. I remember when the ashcan first got on the internet and someone on a news site posted "That looks like Jae Lee." and people on this board accused him of being pro-VIP. LOL

frankly i could care less whether jae lee, pat lee, jim lee, bruce lee, or lee majors drew those pictures...it matters not to me.

most likely if jae lee did do that that work, he was paid for it and i doubt that would label him as "pro-vip".

now if he sought them out and offered to do the work for free then yes...that would be what i personally would call "pro-vip".

it's entirely possible that he asked personally for his name not to be associated with the project.

also, this very easily could've been some young artist who idolizes jae's style...hence the strong resemblance to his work.

i'm not going to waste time getting all worked up over who the artist was...it was crap, whoever it was...regardless of the product involved.

honestly i think the "tr"ashcan was the worst thing vip could've done...they showed everyone exactly what they were planning right there, and really...did anyone like it?

did any fan anywhere look at that monstrosity and go, "holy hell! that's badazz!"

somehow i doubt it.

Oh no, I meant the poster on the news site who pointed out the obvious ("That looks like Jae Lee") was labeled "pro-VIP." Don't recall anyone on this site bringing up the similarities in artstyle to Lee before this thread.

oops! my bad todd, i thought someone here had labeled jae as "pro-vip".

i suck.

Svair did it way back when.
viewtopic.php?t=16143&postdays=0&postor ... &start=125

[Chiclo]

This thread was fun and interesting

until it got long and boring

It is still mildly amusing

What is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting the outcome to be different the definition of.........?

Tenacity!

Tenacious Z should SO be my new custom sig.....

With the power to KILL A YAK from 200 yards away... with MIND BULLETS!

[cinlach@aol.com]

i'd be surprised if priest or bright would be willing to discuss this vip situation at all.

Me too.

forget a potential nda, i just think they might be tired of dealing with all this mess over something like Q&W...i mean, we're not talking watchmen here.

and for a book to be in the top 100 in 1995, does that mean they sold 5,000 copies?

impressive.

Quantum and Woody wasn't published in 1995....are you talking about another book?

no, that's my ignorance of vh2 showing through...i know Q&W was out either right at the end of the boom, or at the beginning of the bust.

i was simply commenting on what i assumed were less then stellar sales.

and i would've gotten away with it too, if it hadn't been for you meddling kids!

[ManofTheAtom]

Let me explain where you missed it YET AGAIN: Christopher Priest knows quite well who he spoke to. But he is not VIP. He is not VEI. Therefore...follow the logic, here...therefore, anything he says WOULD NOT BE OFFICIAL, because, if you went to the people he claimed was VIP, they would DENY it...because either they 1. really AREN'T VIP, or 2. are under a binding agreement to NOT reveal that information.

That's just dumb.

They can deny it all they want, but Priest would have no motive to lie and say that person X is VIP when VIP is really person W.

If Priest said that person W was VIP, what possible reason could there be not to believe him?

The possible reasons would be that he's an *SQUEE* or that he has an interest in helping VIP keep its identity secret.

Since VIP already tried to screw him, I doubt that he has any interest in helping them out.

[ManofTheAtom]

Naturally.

What would Priest or Bright tell us that we don't already "know"...?

But it wouldn't be official. That's the point.

Who VIP really is since at least one of them already knows.

Priest was approached by VIP the morning of the auction, so he knows who they are. He even partially identified them as someone who supported Q&W (which is a very short list).

There's what we assume based on circumstantial evidence (i.e. VIP = Dynamic Forces), and there's what we know (i.e. Priest spoke with VIP and knows who they are).

[siren3-4]

This thread was fun and interesting

until it got long and boring

It is still mildly amusing

What is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting the outcome to be different the definition of.........?

Tenacity!

Tenacious Z should SO be my new custom sig.....

With the power to KILL A YAK from 200 yards away... with MIND BULLETS!

That's correct . . .

[greg]

This thread was fun and interesting

until it got long and boring

It is still mildly amusing

What is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting the outcome to be different the definition of.........?

Tenacity!

Tenacious Z should SO be my new custom sig.....

I was thinking about Chief of the Dia Tribe

[myron]

This thread was fun and interesting

until it got long and boring

It is still mildly amusing

What is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting the outcome to be different the definition of.........?

Tenacity!

Tenacious Z should SO be my new custom sig.....

I was thinking about Chief of the Dia Tribe

[siren3-4]

This thread was fun and interesting

until it got long and boring

It is still mildly amusing

What is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting the outcome to be different the definition of.........?

Tenacity!

Tenacious Z should SO be my new custom sig.....

I was thinking about Chief of the Dia Tribe

That is actually a good one . . . what rules are there for someone getting a different title ??

Does Evil Greg handle that . . .??