I might be out on Valiant

[ilzuccone]

It feels like VEI ran out of their 2012 launch money and started hitting up lower quality talent. 9 books a month is great. i wonder if 5 would be better? meh i don't thing comics were ever the focus of the relaunch. fingers crossed for more movie news!

sorry if this was already mentioned. I only ready the first 2 pages of this thread.

[Elveen]

It feels like VEI ran out of their 2012 launch money and started hitting up lower quality talent. 9 books a month is great. i wonder if 5 would be better? meh i don't thing comics were ever the focus of the relaunch. fingers crossed for more movie news!

sorry if this was already mentioned. I only ready the first 2 pages of this thread.

My friend, I totally disagree with this. Talk to Fred or Warren or Hunter or Atom about this. Fred is all about the books. So are the other guys. I remember Warren telling my at the SDCC poker game that he looks at EVERY page of EVERY book before it is released.

Dino has always had an eye on media, but that is his background. That beings said, Dinesh is passionate about the books and the story. I've had the fortune to talk Valiant comics with Dino many many times. He is passionate about the actual comic books.
We had an amazing talk before Unity came out about the possible effects of having a team book and having those characters also be in their individual books and the problems that could cause. The dude LOVES comics.

But, as always, this is just my opinion.

[ilzuccone]

It feels like VEI ran out of their 2012 launch money and started hitting up lower quality talent. 9 books a month is great. i wonder if 5 would be better? meh i don't thing comics were ever the focus of the relaunch. fingers crossed for more movie news!

sorry if this was already mentioned. I only ready the first 2 pages of this thread.

My friend, I totally disagree with this. Talk to Fred or Warren or Hunter or Atom about this. Fred is all about the books. So are the other guys. I remember Warren telling my at the SDCC poker game that he looks at EVERY page of EVERY book before it is released.

Dino has always had an eye on media, but that is his background. That beings said, Dinesh is passionate about the books and the story. I've had the fortune to talk Valiant comics with Dino many many times. He is passionate about the actual comic books.
We had an amazing talk before Unity came out about the possible effects of having a team book and having those characters also be in their individual books and the problems that could cause. The dude LOVES comics.

But, as always, this is just my opinion.

no doubt they love the comics and do their best to put out a good product. but the comics were always a stepping stone to movies right? don't get me wrong i don't fault them for pushing towards movies. it's a smart move. i would do the same.

I stand by my assessment of talent tho. the books today are not as strong as the books in 2012. back then they gave marvel and dc a run for their money.

disclaimer: i'm "talent." I work for disney tv animation. I'm a harsher judge than most fans. I can see through most of the smoke and mirrors put up by artist etc.

[Keith]

I stand by my assessment of talent tho. the books today are not as strong as the books in 2012. back then they gave marvel and dc a run for their money.

Like who? To my mind the talent pool is pretty much the same as it was in 2012.

[Elveen]

It feels like VEI ran out of their 2012 launch money and started hitting up lower quality talent. 9 books a month is great. i wonder if 5 would be better? meh i don't thing comics were ever the focus of the relaunch. fingers crossed for more movie news!

sorry if this was already mentioned. I only ready the first 2 pages of this thread.

My friend, I totally disagree with this. Talk to Fred or Warren or Hunter or Atom about this. Fred is all about the books. So are the other guys. I remember Warren telling my at the SDCC poker game that he looks at EVERY page of EVERY book before it is released.

Dino has always had an eye on media, but that is his background. That beings said, Dinesh is passionate about the books and the story. I've had the fortune to talk Valiant comics with Dino many many times. He is passionate about the actual comic books.
We had an amazing talk before Unity came out about the possible effects of having a team book and having those characters also be in their individual books and the problems that could cause. The dude LOVES comics.

But, as always, this is just my opinion.

no doubt they love the comics and do their best to put out a good product. but the comics were always a stepping stone to movies right? don't get me wrong i don't fault them for pushing towards movies. it's a smart move. i would do the same.

I stand by my assessment of talent tho. the books today are not as strong as the books in 2012. back then they gave marvel and dc a run for their money.

disclaimer: i'm "talent." I work for disney tv animation. I'm a harsher judge than most fans. I can see through most of the smoke and mirrors put up by artist etc.

Yes and no. Maybe it depends where the emphasis is placed. For example. I always wanted to have children, I always wanted to be a Dad. From when I was a kid, it was a dream of mine. I knew that I needed to get married first and then get my wife pregnant and then we can have kids.

But that being said, as much as I wanted to have kids, I more wanted to be married. I did not want to be alone. Now my wife is a stepping stone to the kids. I need her to get to the kids, but its not like I was just looking for a baby maker. Follow?

Sure, media was always (I'm guessing) part of the plan / hope / dream / "whatever", but it has to be, always has been comics first. When we met Dino at VEI #0, we talked comics.

So media was part of the plan, but comics was the (and are the) lynchpin of the business.
I can tell you with 100% certainty (trying not to "nanny nanny boo boo" here, but .....) they have turned down movie and TV deals that they did not think were right. If it was about just getting a movie made, we would have Bloodshot already. Its not the 1st deal or second deal, but the best deal and the "right" deal and situation.

But again, this is half my opinion and half other stuff.

[Elveen]

I stand by my assessment of talent tho. the books today are not as strong as the books in 2012. back then they gave marvel and dc a run for their money.

Like who? To my mind the talent pool is pretty much the same as it was in 2012.

If you really look at it.
From the beginning, they "lost" Dwayne S (Bloodshot) and added Kindt and Lemire (and others). IMO, that has worked out for them.

I know I miss Harbinger, no doubt. I know Dysart is still writing Imperium, but I do miss Harby. But that is not a talent issue.

[Keith]

I stand by my assessment of talent tho. the books today are not as strong as the books in 2012. back then they gave marvel and dc a run for their money.

Like who? To my mind the talent pool is pretty much the same as it was in 2012.

If you really look at it.
From the beginning, they "lost" Dwayne S (Bloodshot) and added Kindt and Lemire (and others). IMO, that has worked out for them.

I know I miss Harbinger, no doubt. I know Dysart is still writing Imperium, but I do miss Harby. But that is not a talent issue.

Only other "loss" I'd consider is Patrick Zircher, but I always assumed he was seduced away by DC.

From a writer's standpoint - Venditti, Dysart, FVL... all still Valiant.

[battlepark]

As long as you don't get caught up in the Variants, I feel it is a lot cheaper to read Valiant comics now than it was back in 1992. At best you might get 10 to 15% off at your local store back then, but now with online bundling of "A" covers it makes things easier on the wallet.

[nutflush76]

It never makes any sense to me how the variant covers could be making it harder for someone to enjoy a comic book series. Either you like the story or you don't. What does it matter if there are four or five different versions of the cover? Buy the one you like and move on to the next one.
Also, the relaunch and renumbering of titles is not going away any time soon. Look over in the sales thread at how well the new #1 books do. If you can replace a book selling 5k copies and sell 20k copies, even if it's only for a month or 2, that's a huge difference for a small company like valiant. (imagine how much of an increase Marvel and DC get when they relaunch a title?).
I'm disappointed that I will probably never have an X-O manowar #100 (aside from some "what if" type of future storyline) but what really has had me fatigued is the fact that the storylines seem to be losing their way to a certain extent.
However, I can look back at books from the big 2 and see times when the books weren't as good as they once were and people jumped off and then came back when they got good again. Kind of like what I think will happen after Scott Snyder leaves Batman.

[ilzuccone]

It feels like VEI ran out of their 2012 launch money and started hitting up lower quality talent. 9 books a month is great. i wonder if 5 would be better? meh i don't thing comics were ever the focus of the relaunch. fingers crossed for more movie news!

sorry if this was already mentioned. I only ready the first 2 pages of this thread.

My friend, I totally disagree with this. Talk to Fred or Warren or Hunter or Atom about this. Fred is all about the books. So are the other guys. I remember Warren telling my at the SDCC poker game that he looks at EVERY page of EVERY book before it is released.

Dino has always had an eye on media, but that is his background. That beings said, Dinesh is passionate about the books and the story. I've had the fortune to talk Valiant comics with Dino many many times. He is passionate about the actual comic books.
We had an amazing talk before Unity came out about the possible effects of having a team book and having those characters also be in their individual books and the problems that could cause. The dude LOVES comics.

But, as always, this is just my opinion.

no doubt they love the comics and do their best to put out a good product. but the comics were always a stepping stone to movies right? don't get me wrong i don't fault them for pushing towards movies. it's a smart move. i would do the same.

I stand by my assessment of talent tho. the books today are not as strong as the books in 2012. back then they gave marvel and dc a run for their money.

disclaimer: i'm "talent." I work for disney tv animation. I'm a harsher judge than most fans. I can see through most of the smoke and mirrors put up by artist etc.

Yes and no. Maybe it depends where the emphasis is placed. For example. I always wanted to have children, I always wanted to be a Dad. From when I was a kid, it was a dream of mine. I knew that I needed to get married first and then get my wife pregnant and then we can have kids.

But that being said, as much as I wanted to have kids, I more wanted to be married. I did not want to be alone. Now my wife is a stepping stone to the kids. I need her to get to the kids, but its not like I was just looking for a baby maker. Follow?

Sure, media was always (I'm guessing) part of the plan / hope / dream / "whatever", but it has to be, always has been comics first. When we met Dino at VEI #0, we talked comics.

So media was part of the plan, but comics was the (and are the) lynchpin of the business.
I can tell you with 100% certainty (trying not to "nanny nanny boo boo" here, but .....) they have turned down movie and TV deals that they did not think were right. If it was about just getting a movie made, we would have Bloodshot already. Its not the 1st deal or second deal, but the best deal and the "right" deal and situation.

But again, this is half my opinion and half other stuff.

I believe dinesh and crew art smart people. I'm not surprised by them turning down deals. I don't think it's just about getting a movie made. I do believe that has been their focus from day one. that's just smart business when started a comic company these days.

anyway i hope for a movie soon. I'll put money on better vei comics coming out around that time.

[Newton]

As a long-time Valiant fan I hate to pile on and echo some of what others are saying. The shared universe feels too disconnected, the quality is getting a bit sparse, and bottom line I think they went in too many directions too fast.

I felt early on they were failing at establishing some of the key characters like Eternal Warrior and Shadow Man before expanding the universe, but at the time the general quality was so good I was willing to give the benefit of the doubt. I would say the direction of the characters and the universe overall has not been very compelling for me. The variant covers has been discussed to death but that has been a sticking point with me as well.

I find myself now still heavily invested in Valiant in every way, but I think if 4001 fails to galvanize the future Valiant universe (when the present time universe still needs some direction) and provide some interesting, meaningful story I may be out as well. My reasons are similar to a lot of others -- losing battle with closet space, waning interest in comics in general, and not feeling as engaged with the direction of the Valiant universe.

Regardless of what I decide to do I will always be pulling for Valiant. I still think Valiant is some of the best reads out there.

[Ricomortis]

The funny thing is NO ONE has offered to sell me their 9.8 candidates.



(Elevator Music)

(Whistles Guns N Roses "Patience")



....alright... Hurry it up... Hurry it up!

[Tim]

The funny thing is NO ONE has offered to sell me their 9.8 candidates.



(Elevator Music)

(Whistles Guns N Roses "Patience")



....alright... Hurry it up... Hurry it up!

I don't have any 9.8 candidates....I roll my comics up and stick them in my back pocket when I'm done with them.

[Ricomortis]

The funny thing is NO ONE has offered to sell me their 9.8 candidates.



(Elevator Music)

(Whistles Guns N Roses "Patience")



....alright... Hurry it up... Hurry it up!

I don't have any 9.8 candidates....I roll my comics up and stick them in my back pocket when I'm done with them.

That is just wrong, wrong, wrong. I hurt deep inside...



Poor books...

[Aram]

I'm apparently crazy...


https://twitter.com/dinesh_s/status/715357884763099136" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I believe we all already knew that.

[Aram]

but the comics were always a stepping stone to movies right? don't get me wrong i don't fault them for pushing towards movies. it's a smart move. i would do the same.

Dinesh has always said the comics come first and backed that up in action. Anything VEI does marketing wise that I've seen has been because it makes sense and not to make a quick buck. I am 100% confident in Dinesh and Crew to keep making awesome stuff and not become sell-outs.

That being said, I only want one thing from VEI that I'm not already getting..

ONE ongoing title, with no non-plus edition Variants.

Seriously.. Keep the variants flowing as much as you want on the others.. Just throw us a bone and publish one title that is anti variant.

[drmirage]

Lets take a look at the #'s by Comichron:

In Feb 2016 with 7 titles, VEI is the #9 publisher in overall units @ .84%
#13 in Share of Overall Dollars @ .73%

Call me crazy, I expected VEI to reach a higher % after 3-4 years after the relaunch, I think they are not going the right direction.

Back in Aug 2012 with 4 titles, VEI is the #8 publisher in overall units .92%
#12 in Share of overall Dollars .78%

We're waiting for a movie and if that doesn't increase the #'s..... its bad news bears.

[ShadowTuga]

I'm gonna give my 2 Euro Cents:
Dunlow, in all seriousness, you're one crazy dude.




I truly, honestly understand your fall of grace with the company.
Can anyone here seriously compare the enthusiasm we had around X-O #5 (for a random, but great, example) with current times?
No.
We were worldbuilding, like pointed, everything was fresh and new. Even the so-so (Shadowman) was quickly put under the rug due to the awesomeness of the first year of VEI, that culminated in the BEST CROSSOVER YET. Harbinger Wars.

I, for budget reasons, am thinking about cutting the titles I don't like anymore, contrary to past actions. This will leave less resentment for the company, more money for Batman back issues and a happier me.

I've quitted variants (seriously guys, that's sooooooo 2013 ) a long time ago. I can quit comics not-for-me also.
I just wished that the company wouldn't try to shove us this "all-in" mentality (shared "universe" is a thing to see yet in all of it's deserved beauty) when the books are very, very different in what they try to achieve (laughs over at "new" A&A/Q&W; and then serious/awesome books like X-O Manowar/Imperium).

I may be in one of those days, but 4001 AD may be the savior for me: if this will be another Book of Death excuse to get another new #1, I'm out of Rai, also (maybe tradewait). With Imperium and X-O gone, that will leave Wrath, Ninjak and Bloodshot. Can I be invested in a shared universe with just 3 titles on my pull? I don't think so. So, I might be on the fence. And not for lack of trying. I own EVERY SINGLE ISSUE that VEI has put out, including LOTG, which I got thanks to Hawkeyeps (read: had to went out of my way to READ THIS STORY!)- I've been a VEIhead since Harbinger #1 was the next book to be published. I am entitled to my opinion, that's all.
Folks.

[Keith]

Since some have jumped in late to the discussion, reposting Dino's post from the middle of the thread:

It's silly, but this comment from Dino really hurts. I just reread my first post, and I don't see how I'm a "crazy fan" that is "stirring people up". I was just stating my personal opinion on the matter in hopes of starting a discussion.

Oh well.

I could be totally wrong, but there's a good chance that Dinesh is confusing your thread with the "I CALLED X-O ENDING, SO VEI SHOULD HIRE ME TO FIX THEM, BECAUSE I'M AWESOME" thread from valiantdude.

That's exactly what happened.

I <3 you lorddunlow. Apologies for the mix up. I read much of what's posted here on the boards but prefer not to jump in too often. Will try and pop back in later and add a little context. We of course have plans for everything that's seeded or teased in the books. Those plans can and do change from time to time as better ideas come up but that doesn't ignore what has already been laid down as canon. Some of the plans are years out and I understand the wait can be difficult and involve a range of emotions but in the grand tradition of the original Valiant we are striving to give the Valiant characters a legacy built on more than only 1 arc or 1 year blocks. The tiny panels and seemingly throwaway lines in Book of Death and the Fall of one shots are a great example of this. They came out of years of development. Many of those ideas are already secretly underway as upcoming stories. As are a host of books we've only teased to date - Britannia, Savage, Eternity, Book of War, Stalinverse and many others.

I urge you to catch up on the books and see how you feel then. I imagine some of what you are feeling comes from the disconnect between being behind and reading announcements.

[Shadowman99]

I think nonplayer's got a valid point (from the previous page): The 'ultra' hype from VEI starting up as a company has passed now and that honeymoon period is over, so it's inevitable that even the die-hard fans are going to be harder to please when it comes to what VEI are putting out these days. I think that's well worth bearing in mind when criticising what VEI are doing with their comics these days: are VEI *really* doing things 'wrong', or has your perspective as a reader/consumer changed? Think about it.

Going back to Dunlow's comment that followed nonplayer's: "The worldbuilding is over and everything's predictable now (sic)". I think that in a way the worldbuilding is over now, as we've got the current day setting, 4001 and the Faraway established now, as well as a certain outer-space setting and the Deadside, but VEI could introduce a new 'world' at any point: there's nothing to suggest that the worldbuilding is over. As it stands I think VEI have set up their playgrounds now and are playing in them: the next logical progression is to develop these worlds, which I think they're doing an amazing job of. Besides, adding another 'world' at this point in time would probably be stretching things a bit thin given that there's an infinite amount of possibility for the 'worlds' they already have - why complicate things further at this point in time?

As for the formulaic arc structureand comic renumbering, well, we could all argue this one until we're blue in the face. VEI will do what they want to do, end of. Having said that, I do wonder, considering the current market trends, how much noise VEI could make if they say, continued XO from issue #51 rather than a new #1? Buck the trend and catch attention by doing the uncommon?

Characters getting put by the wayside for long periods of time is inevitable if a company is only putting out a small # comics each month. Only so much time in which to play with so many dolls right? Besides, if they put out a comic for every character or 'gang' at once I doubt they'd make the sales to sustain less popular lines anyway, as consumers prioritise their spending. I think the '9 comic' approach is working for VEI, certainly in this respect

"The comics were always a stepping stone to the movies" = totally wrong. Dinesh has made it perfectly clear numerous times that first and foremost VEI is a comic company, and that's where their #1 priority lies.
Also totally wrong: "VEI are signing up lower quality talent", for reasons already stated by Keith.

[nonplayer]

I think nonplayer's got a valid point (from the previous page): The 'ultra' hype from VEI starting up as a company has passed now and that honeymoon period is over, so it's inevitable that even the die-hard fans are going to be harder to please when it comes to what VEI are putting out these days. I think that's well worth bearing in mind when criticising what VEI are doing with their comics these days: are VEI *really* doing things 'wrong', or has your perspective as a reader/consumer changed? Think about it.

Going back to Dunlow's comment that followed nonplayer's: "The worldbuilding is over and everything's predictable now (sic)". I think that in a way the worldbuilding is over now, as we've got the current day setting, 4001 and the Faraway established now, as well as a certain outer-space setting and the Deadside, but VEI could introduce a new 'world' at any point: there's nothing to suggest that the worldbuilding is over. As it stands I think VEI have set up their playgrounds now and are playing in them: the next logical progression is to develop these worlds, which I think they're doing an amazing job of. Besides, adding another 'world' at this point in time would probably be stretching things a bit thin given that there's an infinite amount of possibility for the 'worlds' they already have - why complicate things further at this point in time?

As for the formulaic arc structureand comic renumbering, well, we could all argue this one until we're blue in the face. VEI will do what they want to do, end of. Having said that, I do wonder, considering the current market trends, how much noise VEI could make if they say, continued XO from issue #51 rather than a new #1? Buck the trend and catch attention by doing the uncommon?

Characters getting put by the wayside for long periods of time is inevitable if a company is only putting out a small # comics each month. Only so much time in which to play with so many dolls right? Besides, if they put out a comic for every character or 'gang' at once I doubt they'd make the sales to sustain less popular lines anyway, as consumers prioritise their spending. I think the '9 comic' approach is working for VEI, certainly in this respect

"The comics were always a stepping stone to the movies" = totally wrong. Dinesh has made it perfectly clear numerous times that first and foremost VEI is a comic company, and that's where their #1 priority lies.
Also totally wrong: "VEI are signing up lower quality talent", for reasons already stated by Keith.

Well said brotha. I'd like to ad the American dollar will also hit valiants numbers a bit. Canadians and pretty much any one else will be buying less variants and we'll anything from the states. It's not felt by you American consumers but it's heavily felt by your closest nabours. Even the regular comics I buy from my store costs me 35% more than you guys so understand your high dollar will affect what people buy on eBay Paradise Impulse Creations they will all be selling less to people outside of the usa.

[ilzuccone]

Dinesh has always said the comics come first and backed that up in action. Anything VEI does marketing wise that I've seen has been because it makes sense and not to make a quick buck. I am 100% confident in Dinesh and Crew to keep making awesome stuff and not become sell-outs.

yeah sorry i said nothing about quick bucks or selling out.

comics come first. sure. then come movies. then comes the money (one hopes).

this is such a derail. i missed this forum

[lorddunlow]

Does this thread exist? Where's the thread that doesn't exist? I'm having trouble finding it.

[Shadowman99]

Does this thread exist? Where's the thread that doesn't exist? I'm having trouble finding it.

It's in the Religion, Politics, and Other Things We Don't Discuss area

[chriskay99]

I've been out since shortly after Armor Hunters. I realized I was running out of space and decided to switch to digital, but then I found myself not missing the books. I still check the boards and kind of keep up with what's going on. I guess I realized I was never that passionate as most people here are. To go back even further, I wasn't a hardcore VH1 fan although I owned my fair share of books back then. I'm not trying to say the books were bad now or then, but they never really captured my enthusiasm. I know this is a very vocal and passionate community but I'd read the books and most months just go, "Yep, that was a comic book" so I can sympathize with a lot of the posts that have taken place in this thread.

I was excited for the VEI relaunch and it got me back into a comic shop regularly back in 2012 since it seemed like a great jumping on point. But like I said the books just didn't really move the needle for me, or just not as much as some titles from other companies I've discovered in the last 4 years. So like others have said, I'm just sticking to buying what I like.