Saga

[Savant]

I read the trade and thought "meh". But it was still interesting enough to keep going. I picked up issues 7 and 8 and I am glad I did. The interaction with Marko's parents has been great so far.

So it gets better?

I felt the same way you did after reading the trade. After reading it, I didn't get what all the hype's about. It's OK, but didn't feel noteworthy, and it's nothing close to being the "best of 2012" from my perspective.......Hell, I was on the fence on trying out the second tpb when it's released, just to give the title another chance.

[greg]

I've been reading Saga and also been disappointed that it is being called 'the BEST comic' right now.

It starts with a 'woman' asking if she's $#!++!ng twice while giving birth. The first page of the series is designed to turn away all kinds of potential readers, particularly the next generation of comic fans. By the middle of the first issue, two 'robots' are graphically having intercourse, but they're drawn with human bodies, so it's regular porn with 'tv sets on their heads' (instead of bags on their heads, or something).

By the 4th issue, there's extreme porn when the Vin Diesel character visits the sex-planet. Pedophile detailed discussion is next.

By issue 7, a giant's graphically deformed genitalia is paraded like it's funny, or something. Funny as photos of gonorrhea, maybe. You can't skip #7 to escape it, because it's back in #8.

Anyway, the series is equal parts:
Porn/vulgarity/gross
Romeo & Juliet (with child)
Hitchhiker's Guide
Narnia

Porn has a time and place and this isn't it. Romeo and Juliet is tired. Narnia is too whacked-out (especially blended with porn/vulgarity) for my taste. Since I only enjoy the Hitchhiker's Guide portion... I give it 1 out of 4 stars. I can see how it is appealing to some people, but I can't see how the industry is holding it up with a spotlight. It's like 'shock-jock' radio. It's the Howard Stern of fantasy comics. Yes, Howard Stern has a huge following, but he's not a good spokesman for an industry. He's a niche market, and divisive.

I would be very upset if someone who knows I collect comics picked up Saga to see what's so great about comics, since it's the BEST of 2012. They'd be horrified by comics and I wouldn't have a clue how to explain why the industry is telling the world it's the BEST thing. Best for whom?

[Chiclo]

I've been reading Saga and also been disappointed that it is being called 'the BEST comic' right now.

It starts with a 'woman' asking if she's $#!++!ng twice while giving birth. The first page of the series is designed to turn away all kinds of potential readers, particularly the next generation of comic fans. By the middle of the first issue, two 'robots' are graphically having intercourse, but they're drawn with human bodies, so it's regular porn with 'tv sets on their heads' (instead of bags on their heads, or something).

By the 4th issue, there's extreme porn when the Vin Diesel character visits the sex-planet. Pedophile detailed discussion is next.

By issue 7, a giant's graphically deformed genitalia is paraded like it's funny, or something. Funny as photos of gonorrhea, maybe. You can't skip #7 to escape it, because it's back in #8.

Anyway, the series is equal parts:
Porn/vulgarity/gross
Romeo & Juliet (with child)
Hitchhiker's Guide
Narnia

Porn has a time and place and this isn't it. Romeo and Juliet is tired. Narnia is too whacked-out (especially blended with porn/vulgarity) for my taste. Since I only enjoy the Hitchhiker's Guide portion... I give it 1 out of 4 stars. I can see how it is appealing to some people, but I can't see how the industry is holding it up with a spotlight. It's like 'shock-jock' radio. It's the Howard Stern of fantasy comics. Yes, Howard Stern has a huge following, but he's not a good spokesman for an industry. He's a niche market, and divisive.

I would be very upset if someone who knows I collect comics picked up Saga to see what's so great about comics, since it's the BEST of 2012. They'd be horrified by comics and I wouldn't have a clue how to explain why the industry is telling the world it's the BEST thing. Best for whom?

It is rare that I agree with you, Greg, but I do agree with you wholeheartedly up and down the line on Saga.

[greg]

It is rare that I agree with you, Greg, but I do agree with you wholeheartedly up and down the line on Saga.

Rare that you agree with me?

I disagree.

[MarrowMan]

Saga isn't for little kiddies. I'll agree it's mostly for shock value though. But there are tons of other comics.

[Chiclo]

It is rare that I agree with you, Greg, but I do agree with you wholeheartedly up and down the line on Saga.

Rare that you agree with me?

I disagree.

Maybe you are right after all. I agree with you.

[400yrs]

Best for whom?

Best for most people who regularly read comics?

I wouldn't give it to a new comic reader either unless I knew they could handle it. And if they could handle it, Saga would be a much better option than regular super hero stuff.

[caniac]

Best for whom?

Best for most people who regularly read comics?

I wouldn't give it to a new comic reader either unless I knew they could handle it. And if they could handle it, Saga would be a much better option than regular super hero stuff.

I agree with that.

[lorddunlow]

I read the first issue free on Comixolology and really wish I could delete stuff from the Comixolology archive. I didn't even finish the issue. The TV head people scene was the end for me. Gratuitous and needless, especially since the story and art seemed to be of a very high level.

[Phantom]

Didn't even know it got best comic of 2012.
It's a very adult comic, I would not give it to many people to read.

The giant I thought was well disgusting, I didn't like to look at it.
But I think that was the point.

I'll keep reading as I like parents interaction. Ghost baby sitter, it's strange but has direction. Prophet is brilliant but the last 2 issues feels lost.

[Savant]

My thing with Saga isn't that I was offended by anything (The part where the female protagonist asks twice if she *SQUEE* herself, I simply found kind of lame).

I just find it kind of dull. There's heavy characterization & dialogue, but I don't feel engaged with it. I think a part of the reason is I'm simply not into Brian K Vaughan's writing. I didn't care for Y: The Last Man, and it wasn't due to finding any content offensive (I didn't), but because it felt like a cheap "TV episode of the week" version of Children Of Men.

[Spylocke]

Saga hooked me pretty fast on issue 7. I'd seen that earlier issues were being bought on ebay for obscene amounts of money so I picked up number 7 to see what the big deal was. Sometimes I'm easy to please. I just need one character to like or identify with and found three in Barr, Marko and Alana.

Usually when trying out a new comic I end up not liking it consistently. Saga is in a rare group that grabbed me within the space of one book and didn't require any more time to woo me. Dial H and Chew were the same way.

Since I still haven't read issues 1 through 6 I can't say much about those issues but even if has had a slow start I think it is at a good place now.

[ian_house]

I find the backlash somewhat odd here. Especially Greg's... I think thats like saying you would give someone Unity and they would just focus on the fact you can see Mother God's nips and the more than suggested incest. The characterisation, development of characters and insanely beautiful art surely transcend some aspects of the content you don't morally agree with. I don't get the link to Narnia and only partially Romeo & Juliet (I personally made the same likeness after the first issue or two but it's developed away from that quickly).
On the side of the 'porn' I think that is a massive over-reaction to describe it as such. Much of the points you have highlighted demonstrate the vivid reality of the Saga universe (setting it apart from other bland and instantly recognisable space based comic univesrses) and in the case of the TV peeps highlights their broken and messed up society, something the protagonists are desperately trying to escape. Throughout the title the protagonists have been running away or fighting against such dark and bizarre scenarios as they want to bring their child up in a better world.

On the other hand... I've just read issue 10:

NNNNNOooooooooooooooooooooooooo LIAR CAT........ NOoooooooooooooooooooo!

[MarrowMan]

We live in basically the same world (albeit without tv head people and space travel, etc) And our protagonists are just as disgusted by what's going on as we are. I think that means something.

[ian_house]

We live in basically the same world (albeit without tv head people and space travel, etc) And our protagonists are just as disgusted by what's going on as we are. I think that means something.

That's the point I was trying to make but less precisely.

[greg]

I find the backlash somewhat odd here. Especially Greg's... I think thats like saying you would give someone Unity and they would just focus on the fact you can see Mother God's nips and the more than suggested incest.

That's not my point.

My point is that Diamond and other groups have named Saga the BEST of 2012 for the industry.
Saga is representing ALL comic collectors to the "world at large" as the BEST of our industry.

I would be embarrassed for ANYONE outside of comics to read Saga as a representation of the BEST of comics.

Saga as Saga for fans of Saga is fine. Saga as "BEST IN COMICS" is something else.

[lorddunlow]

I find the backlash somewhat odd here. Especially Greg's... I think thats like saying you would give someone Unity and they would just focus on the fact you can see Mother God's nips and the more than suggested incest.

That's not my point.

My point is that Diamond and other groups have named Saga the BEST of 2012 for the industry.
Saga is representing ALL comic collectors to the "world at large" as the BEST of our industry.

I would be embarrassed for ANYONE outside of comics to read Saga as a representation of the BEST of comics.

Saga as Saga for fans of Saga is fine. Saga as "BEST IN COMICS" is something else.

I totally agree here. I'm not for any kind of censorship, but I don't want to read or see this kind of stuff myself. The promotion as the best comic out there is what bothers me. I'm tired of a society that needs sex and nudity to attract an audience.

VEI has been a great example of having a realistic world without being vulgar. I could use a little less profanity myself, but overall it's great.

[Bubba]

Really? if I'm not mistaken Harbinger 1 touched on date rape, Pete used his powers to influence kris to sleep with him. Though implied, it is rape. Face it comics today are catering to an older audience therefore the content t inside is going to be for an older audience.

[lorddunlow]

Really? if I'm not mistaken Harbinger 1 touched on date rape, Pete used his powers to influence kris to sleep with him. Though implied, it is rape. Face it comics today are catering to an older audience therefore the content t inside is going to be for an older audience.

But it was implied. This both sets up a bit of ambiguity (did he really rape her?) and does not show the graphic depiction of the act - which isn't necessary. The content is still there, but it depends on the mind of the audience to fill with what they choose.

Film is the other place where this is a big issue. There will always be skin flicks that are produced just for the people that like to see sex/nudity (why those people don't just buy porn is beyond me). But nudity and graphic depictions of sex are often not necessary in the least. Sometimes it's contextually important, but often it's gratuitous. Sex sells, so the film industry makes sure there is nudity and sex in films they want to sell. There are countless movies where no graphic scenes are included, but get the point across very well. In rewatching many of the films I enjoyed as a child of the 80s, I see now that there were lots of very vulgar jokes and scenes that were completely above my head. I didn't see the dirty parts of it, because they were implied or otherwise not obvious. Now, as an adult I can appreciate (or not - depends on the movie) the more adult messages in these films. I wish Saga didn't have the explicit sex stuff, because otherwise it seems like a compelling read.

On the other hand, I don't think nudity is always gratuitous. In Life is Beautiful, there is a scene where Roberto Benigni's character comes across a mass grave of bodies (all nude - men and women). A grotesque scene used for shock value, but considering it was the holocaust this was a very true portrayal of a historical event. They could have avoided it, but I think it actually added depth to the film (which has lots of humor). It was not tasteless in the least, which is rarely seen in American cinema. Our comics unfortunately are starting to become pre-Hollywood script boards instead of the separate media they should be.

[Bubba]

Implied or not the fact is is there for the rear to see. If 2 robots having sex and a giant with infected testicles upsets a reader then date rape should upset them just as well. To me date rape in a realistic world is worse than 2 robots having sex in a fantasy world.

[MarrowMan]

Really? if I'm not mistaken Harbinger 1 touched on date rape, Pete used his powers to influence kris to sleep with him. Though implied, it is rape. Face it comics today are catering to an older audience therefore the content t inside is going to be for an older audience.

But it was implied. This both sets up a bit of ambiguity (did he really rape her?) and does not show the graphic depiction of the act - which isn't necessary. The content is still there, but it depends on the mind of the audience to fill with what they choose.

Film is the other place where this is a big issue. There will always be skin flicks that are produced just for the people that like to see sex/nudity (why those people don't just buy porn is beyond me). But nudity and graphic depictions of sex are often not necessary in the least. Sometimes it's contextually important, but often it's gratuitous. Sex sells, so the film industry makes sure there is nudity and sex in films they want to sell. There are countless movies where no graphic scenes are included, but get the point across very well. In rewatching many of the films I enjoyed as a child of the 80s, I see now that there were lots of very vulgar jokes and scenes that were completely above my head. I didn't see the dirty parts of it, because they were implied or otherwise not obvious. Now, as an adult I can appreciate (or not - depends on the movie) the more adult messages in these films. I wish Saga didn't have the explicit sex stuff, because otherwise it seems like a compelling read.

On the other hand, I don't think nudity is always gratuitous. In Life is Beautiful, there is a scene where Roberto Benigni's character comes across a mass grave of bodies (all nude - men and women). A grotesque scene used for shock value, but considering it was the holocaust this was a very true portrayal of a historical event. They could have avoided it, but I think it actually added depth to the film (which has lots of humor). It was not tasteless in the least, which is rarely seen in American cinema. Our comics unfortunately are starting to become pre-Hollywood script boards instead of the separate media they should be.

"Life is Beautiful" is not an American film.

[xodacia81]

Really? if I'm not mistaken Harbinger 1 touched on date rape, Pete used his powers to influence kris to sleep with him. Though implied, it is rape. Face it comics today are catering to an older audience therefore the content t inside is going to be for an older audience.

But it was implied. This both sets up a bit of ambiguity (did he really rape her?) and does not show the graphic depiction of the act - which isn't necessary. The content is still there, but it depends on the mind of the audience to fill with what they choose.

Film is the other place where this is a big issue. There will always be skin flicks that are produced just for the people that like to see sex/nudity (why those people don't just buy porn is beyond me). But nudity and graphic depictions of sex are often not necessary in the least. Sometimes it's contextually important, but often it's gratuitous. Sex sells, so the film industry makes sure there is nudity and sex in films they want to sell. There are countless movies where no graphic scenes are included, but get the point across very well. In rewatching many of the films I enjoyed as a child of the 80s, I see now that there were lots of very vulgar jokes and scenes that were completely above my head. I didn't see the dirty parts of it, because they were implied or otherwise not obvious. Now, as an adult I can appreciate (or not - depends on the movie) the more adult messages in these films. I wish Saga didn't have the explicit sex stuff, because otherwise it seems like a compelling read.

On the other hand, I don't think nudity is always gratuitous. In Life is Beautiful, there is a scene where Roberto Benigni's character comes across a mass grave of bodies (all nude - men and women). A grotesque scene used for shock value, but considering it was the holocaust this was a very true portrayal of a historical event. They could have avoided it, but I think it actually added depth to the film (which has lots of humor). It was not tasteless in the least, which is rarely seen in American cinema. Our comics unfortunately are starting to become pre-Hollywood script boards instead of the separate media they should be.

"Life is Beautiful" is not an American film.

Indeed. Italian, 1997.

[lorddunlow]

"Life is Beautiful" is not an American film.

I must have not made it clear that that was my point. I can't think of an American film example

[Spylocke]

I had no idea Saga was being touted as some sort of ambassador to non-readers. I can't think of any comic that adequately fills that niche. If I want to suggest a comic I ask people what movies they like and suggest something based on that. There are some people I would suggest Saga to but not others. I think it's a really good sci-fi/fantasy romance/adventure mash-up but not for everyone.

[400yrs]

I had no idea Saga was being touted as some sort of ambassador to non-readers. I can't think of any comic that adequately fills that niche. If I want to suggest a comic I ask people what movies they like and suggest something based on that. There are some people I would suggest Saga to but not others. I think it's a really good sci-fi/fantasy romance/adventure mash-up but not for everyone.

It's not. Diamond isn't advertising to non-comic readers. All the different sites that called it their pick aren't advertising to non-comic readers.

If I were to pick the best comic of 2012, it would be Saga because it was the best comic of 2012. If I were to choose a best comic of 2012 for non-comic readers to try, it would probably be Hawkeye.


Saga 10 was awesome, btw.