Virgin Comics

[ncameron]

What decisions that failed has the new management made?

Going back to the Jemas Days

No overprint ask any retailer they despise that choice. Its only purpose aside from forcing a retailer to order more books upfront, allows Marvel to put out a press release stating that (Insert Book) (Insert Issue Number) has sold out at Diamond and that they can now do a second print.

Marville vs. Capt. Marvel vs. Ultimate Adventure in U-Decide

Jemas story disagreements with Grant Morrison forcing Morrison to jump back to DC.

TPB collections being released the week after a story line is finished. While I agree sooner is usually better, its cannibalized sales for some minis because you know the trade will be out once its all done.

Creative Mistakes:
Chuck Austen being forced to undo a majority of Grant Morrisons New X-Men plot threads through retcons

Kevin Smith work being solicited and sold before the next issue being written (see: Daredevil 1-8, Black Cat, Daredevil:Target)

Ultimate Hulk vs. Ultimate Wolverine

Geldolf

House of M to Civil War to World War Hulk to Secret Invasion. Or too much big story madness.


Though even with all the negatives, the balls it took to start the ultimate books and a lot of the other creative choices they have taken the last 8 years have been pretty good.

Plus Going from GM to Joss Whedon to Warren Ellis for the X-Men has been great.

-neil

-neil

[slym2none]

Didn't JMS claim that what he disagreed with was keeping the continuity and trying to fix it by explaining how everything still happened except for the marriage? That he was still for splitting them up but not how it was done?

There was an interview on newsarama where Quesada states that. JMS wanted to do something a little more in character but would change things even further.

That's what bothers me the most about the whole thing.

Spidey made a deal with the DEVIL, with Mephisto.

NO ONE in the Marvel Universe has ever made a deal with him and gotten what they wanted, it has ALWAYS backfired on them.

WHERE are the consequences here? There are none.

Even Everett K Ross in Black Panther suffered from his wish to get a pair of pants.

My guess is, it'll be used as a plot device in a later story.



-slym

[Chiclo]

Didn't JMS claim that what he disagreed with was keeping the continuity and trying to fix it by explaining how everything still happened except for the marriage? That he was still for splitting them up but not how it was done?

There was an interview on newsarama where Quesada states that. JMS wanted to do something a little more in character but would change things even further.

That's what bothers me the most about the whole thing.

Spidey made a deal with the DEVIL, with Mephisto.

NO ONE in the Marvel Universe has ever made a deal with him and gotten what they wanted, it has ALWAYS backfired on them.

WHERE are the consequences here? There are none.

Even Everett K Ross in Black Panther suffered from his wish to get a pair of pants.

She-Hulk didn't do badly when she tried to make a deal with him.

She got her taxes paid after it was all said and done.

[ManofTheAtom]

Didn't JMS claim that what he disagreed with was keeping the continuity and trying to fix it by explaining how everything still happened except for the marriage? That he was still for splitting them up but not how it was done?

There was an interview on newsarama where Quesada states that. JMS wanted to do something a little more in character but would change things even further.

That's what bothers me the most about the whole thing.

Spidey made a deal with the DEVIL, with Mephisto.

NO ONE in the Marvel Universe has ever made a deal with him and gotten what they wanted, it has ALWAYS backfired on them.

WHERE are the consequences here? There are none.

Even Everett K Ross in Black Panther suffered from his wish to get a pair of pants.

My guess is, it'll be used as a plot device in a later story.



-slym

When you mix Mephisto with the Parker Luck, you should expect the worst outcome in history, but instead all we've seen is what the so-called "braintrust" of Spidey fanboys thinks is best for the character.

[depluto]

When you mix Mephisto with the Parker Luck, you should expect the worst outcome in history, but instead all we've seen is what the so-called "braintrust" of Spidey fanboys thinks is best for the character.

Marvel's method with that particular storyline is MOTA's worst nightmare for Valiant ... they threw continuity away with a cheap gimmick so they could go in a different direction with the storytelling.

Not that I'm completely against such a thing, but the payoff with the Spidey books has not been that great. It borderings on sucking, even.

[ManofTheAtom]

When you mix Mephisto with the Parker Luck, you should expect the worst outcome in history, but instead all we've seen is what the so-called "braintrust" of Spidey fanboys thinks is best for the character.

Marvel's method with that particular storyline is MOTA's worst nightmare for Valiant ... they threw continuity away with a cheap gimmick so they could go in a different direction with the storytelling.

Not that I'm completely against such a thing, but the payoff with the Spidey books has not been that great. It borderings on sucking, even.

And the sad part is that a lot of people on this board want that kind of approach applied to VALIANT, because "as long as the story is good" they don't care.

[depluto]

When you mix Mephisto with the Parker Luck, you should expect the worst outcome in history, but instead all we've seen is what the so-called "braintrust" of Spidey fanboys thinks is best for the character.

Marvel's method with that particular storyline is MOTA's worst nightmare for Valiant ... they threw continuity away with a cheap gimmick so they could go in a different direction with the storytelling.

Not that I'm completely against such a thing, but the payoff with the Spidey books has not been that great. It borderings on sucking, even.

And the sad part is that a lot of people on this board want that kind of approach applied to VALIANT, because "as long as the story is good" they don't care.

Well, I kind of fit in that category. To me the most important thing is that the characters are used to tell compelling, mature stories.

I think any potential Harbinger movie is going to have a huge impact, too. There's no way Hollywood is going to leave that storyline intact.

[ManofTheAtom]

When you mix Mephisto with the Parker Luck, you should expect the worst outcome in history, but instead all we've seen is what the so-called "braintrust" of Spidey fanboys thinks is best for the character.

Marvel's method with that particular storyline is MOTA's worst nightmare for Valiant ... they threw continuity away with a cheap gimmick so they could go in a different direction with the storytelling.

Not that I'm completely against such a thing, but the payoff with the Spidey books has not been that great. It borderings on sucking, even.

And the sad part is that a lot of people on this board want that kind of approach applied to VALIANT, because "as long as the story is good" they don't care.

Well, I kind of fit in that category. To me the most important thing is that the characters are used to tell compelling, mature stories.

I think any potential Harbinger movie is going to have a huge impact, too. There's no way Hollywood is going to leave that storyline intact.

Your thinking is too micro, mine is more macro.

I focus more on how the individual stories affect the overall story, while you're focusing on the moment, and how good or bad the story of the moment is.

Have the stories that the Spidey writers been doing sucked? No, for the most part they've brought in a lot of good ideas and characters, like Menace, the junkie guy, the DB plot, and other stuff... but none of that good stuff necesitated getting rid of the marriage.

The stuff they're exploring with single Peter is the same tired plots we've been seeing since the 70's.

In the 70's, single Pete moved into an apartment with Harry.

In the 90's, single Pete (at a time when MJ was presumed dead) moved into an apartment with Robbie's son.

Now, in the 21st Century, single Pete is moving into an apartment with a cop.

Nothing new under the sun, with older plot ideas waiting to come out, like Harry becoming the Goblin again.

[Chiclo]

Yours is the greatest of micro-thinking.

Continuity only continues if there are sales. The Valiant people have said they are greatful for the 600 or so Valiant fans still out there like you and me but they are wanting to move more than 600 books a month. To do that, they have to sell books which may involve compromises to a continuity some 15 years old and 12 years defunct.

We are the change we have been waiting for. Embrace the change, MotA.

Also, the only really cool thing to come out of the Spidey corner in the last 10 years was Toxin.

[ManofTheAtom]

Yours is the greatest of micro-thinking.

Continuity only continues if there are sales. The Valiant people have said they are greatful for the 600 or so Valiant fans still out there like you and me but they are wanting to move more than 600 books a month. To do that, they have to sell books which may involve compromises to a continuity some 15 years old and 12 years defunct.

We are the change we have been waiting for. Embrace the change, MotA.

Also, the only really cool thing to come out of the Spidey corner in the last 10 years was Toxin.

Yet they're producing new stories based on that continuity.

The new stories were not a necessary expense, you do understand that, right?

Funny how when fanboys at DC, Marvel, and Dynamite revive 30, 40, and even 50 year old characters, it's okay to respect that continuity, but when talking about the VALIANT characters, Chiclo Nicieza expects... no, demands... that they ignore the 15 year old continuity and instead focus on dumbing down the characters to make them more marketable to horny, ignorant, fanboys.

Chiclo, in all honesty, WHAT is it gonna take for you to accept that what you want to happen already failed, not once, not twice, but THREE times (or was it four? I lost count).

Honestly, tell me what it will take for you to grasp that, because no matter how much proof I've given you, you're adamant that you don't want VEI to produice VALIANT comics, you want them to produce comics with DC and Marvel characters (in all likelihood Batman and Wolverine, who we all know already have more than enough comics of their own), and comics with DC/Marvel-like characters. You want them to do anything except produce VALIANT comics.

They've barely done anything and you've already proclaimed them a failure UNLESS they do things the way DC and Marvel do it.

[Chiclo]

Yours is the greatest of micro-thinking.

Continuity only continues if there are sales. The Valiant people have said they are greatful for the 600 or so Valiant fans still out there like you and me but they are wanting to move more than 600 books a month. To do that, they have to sell books which may involve compromises to a continuity some 15 years old and 12 years defunct.

We are the change we have been waiting for. Embrace the change, MotA.

Also, the only really cool thing to come out of the Spidey corner in the last 10 years was Toxin.

Yet they're producing new stories based on that continuity.

The new stories were not a necessary expense, you do understand that, right?

Funny how when fanboys at DC, Marvel, and Dynamite revive 30, 40, and even 50 year old characters, it's okay to respect that continuity, but when talking about the VALIANT characters, Chiclo Nicieza expects... no, demands... that they ignore the 15 year old continuity and instead focus on dumbing down the characters to make them more marketable to horny, ignorant, fanboys.

The Marvel and Dynamite are vaguely based on those old continuities but not at all bound by them. Similarly, I don't want to see the new VEI stories bound strictly by the defunct by 12 years VCB. If something in the new Harbinger stories contradicts something said in an old Eternal Warrior story, that will be fine with me, just like if the Black Terror or the Witness contradicts themselves from 50 years ago I would not be bothered (nor likely to know of the discrepancy).

What is DC doing in the line of reviving old characters? Like the Multiverse and all that? I like Ultraman!

[ManofTheAtom]

Yours is the greatest of micro-thinking.

Continuity only continues if there are sales. The Valiant people have said they are greatful for the 600 or so Valiant fans still out there like you and me but they are wanting to move more than 600 books a month. To do that, they have to sell books which may involve compromises to a continuity some 15 years old and 12 years defunct.

We are the change we have been waiting for. Embrace the change, MotA.

Also, the only really cool thing to come out of the Spidey corner in the last 10 years was Toxin.

Yet they're producing new stories based on that continuity.

The new stories were not a necessary expense, you do understand that, right?

Funny how when fanboys at DC, Marvel, and Dynamite revive 30, 40, and even 50 year old characters, it's okay to respect that continuity, but when talking about the VALIANT characters, Chiclo Nicieza expects... no, demands... that they ignore the 15 year old continuity and instead focus on dumbing down the characters to make them more marketable to horny, ignorant, fanboys.

The Marvel and Dynamite are vaguely based on those old continuities but not at all bound by them. Similarly, I don't want to see the new VEI stories bound strictly by the defunct by 12 years VCB. If something in the new Harbinger stories contradicts something said in an old Eternal Warrior story, that will be fine with me, just like if the Black Terror or the Witness contradicts themselves from 50 years ago I would not be bothered (nor likely to know of the discrepancy).

What is DC doing in the line of reviving old characters? Like the Multiverse and all that? I like Ultraman!

Ever since Infinite Crisis, DC has gone off the notion that, instead of their main Earth being a new Earth created from the merger of the five Earths that survived the 86 Crisis, it's gone back to being Earth 1 and so they've revived all the old continuity from the 60's.

And this is exactly what I mean with micro thinking.

You're focusing on the now and not in the overall story, which includes the original continuity that your idol, Fabian, flushed down the toilet to replace with a goat and four-breasted women.

He believed that the only way to market the VALIANT characters was to do an event and a one shot centered around a colleege fraternity hazing joke, then when people didn't give a damn he whined to Wizard that Turok was barely selling 7, 500 copies.

Now you want the same thing to happen again, except that instead of a goat you want VEI to do crossovers with popular DC and Marvel characters, most likely Batman and Wolverine (who in their own right have probably become college fratenity hazing jokes).

What happens when those comics outsell Eternal Warrior or X-O Manowar? Should Dinesh or Jason whine to Wizard over how their comics with the competition's most popular characters outsell the comics they own out right?

It be their own fault if that happened, just like it was Nicieza's fault that no one cared about Turok, even when he put four-breasted women on the cover.

Just how stupid does a person have to be to opt to do a crossover and a one shot centered on a goat instead of something centered around a character that sold millions of dollars in video games?

When the Harbinger movie proves to be a success, I hope that VEI does a Harbinger-centered event, and not something centered around Flo.

[ManofTheAtom]

Btw, did you know that Nicieza was planning to replace Turok with a woman?

He was desperate.

[Chiclo]

Turok and Shadowman were not the only Valiant comic characters that sold millions in video games.

Batman/Mario. It's so obvious.

[Chiclo]

Btw, did you know that Nicieza was planning to replace Turok with a woman?

He was desperate.

I might have heard that somewhere...

That Valiant Voyeur is out there.

[ManofTheAtom]

Turok and Shadowman were not the only Valiant comic characters that sold millions in video games.

Batman/Mario. It's so obvious.

I wouldn't be surprised if something like that existed already.

DC can publish whatever the hell they want, like the JLA meeting Bugs Bunny (which does actually exist), because they can afford to. VEI needs to build a consumer base for their characters.

[ManofTheAtom]

Btw, did you know that Nicieza was planning to replace Turok with a woman?

He was desperate.

I might have heard that somewhere...

That Valiant Voyeur is out there.

That's the one

[Chiclo]

Turok and Shadowman were not the only Valiant comic characters that sold millions in video games.

Batman/Mario. It's so obvious.

I wouldn't be surprised if something like that existed already.

DC can publish whatever the hell they want, like the JLA meeting Bugs Bunny (which does actually exist), because they can afford to. VEI needs to build a consumer base for their characters.

You know what this world needs?

A Punisher/Archie crossover.

It's so obvious, why haven't they made it happen?

X-O and Iron Man had such a good crossover, maybe they should have crossed Magnus or Solar over with another character...

[ManofTheAtom]

Turok and Shadowman were not the only Valiant comic characters that sold millions in video games.

Batman/Mario. It's so obvious.

I wouldn't be surprised if something like that existed already.

DC can publish whatever the hell they want, like the JLA meeting Bugs Bunny (which does actually exist), because they can afford to. VEI needs to build a consumer base for their characters.

You know what this world needs?

A Punisher/Archie crossover.

It's so obvious, why haven't they made it happen?

X-O and Iron Man had such a good crossover, maybe they should have crossed Magnus or Solar over with another character...

They did it, twice.

I wouldn't be surprised if DH crossovered Magnus with Terminator, Predator again, and the Aliens.

[iggy101us]

Btw, did you know that Nicieza was planning to replace Turok with a woman?

He was desperate.

I might have heard that somewhere...

That Valiant Voyeur is out there.

[ManofTheAtom]

http://www.valiantcomics.com/valiant/joe/voyeurs/

[iggy101us]

Female Turok versus tribe of 4-breasted women!

[ManofTheAtom]

Female Turok versus tribe of 4-breasted women!

I woluldn't be surprised if that was something that Nicieza was planning.

[Zaphod]

Funny how when fanboys at DC, Marvel, and Dynamite revive 30, 40, and even 50 year old characters, it's okay to respect that continuity.

I have not been following Dynamite, but I imagine that the characters have been "Revamped" to fit the 2000s.

But the old characters that have been revived by DC and Marvel have all been significantly altered from my understanding. Good alterations and bad alterations, I am sure depending who makes that call because it is all subjective to each of us.

Step back and realize, that is what Acclaim did. There is no difference, they were trying to revitalize what was (at the time) a dying universe. Their revival failed.

But very few older characters that are brought back come back unchanged. The major question is...what is the change that is going to make it work?

[Zaphod]

Just how stupid does a person have to be to opt to do a crossover and a one shot centered on a goat instead of something centered around a character that sold millions of dollars in video games?

Well VEI doesn't own Turok anymore and the Shadowman video game was based off of the Acclaim version, wasn't he?

A question that I don't know is answerable but I keep falling back on is, How much of those millions of dollars in sales were inflated due to the speculator bubble that burst?

You would figure those millions of dollars in sales should have been enough to cement Valiant and yet it was not. A very real question that us fanboys are not asking ourselves is....was Valiant just a fad and was its success not completely a product of its own demise?