VEI - what is their ultimate goal?

[yardstick]

I think that Harby will be first.


There are so many characters you can get into Harby.

Then X-O, Bloodshot, then the Eternal book. That should be good for about a year.

Unless of course they are going to do future books without Magnus, then maybe Rai.

It seems that every superhero universe has a cornerstone, and that would be the title to lead things off with. Magnus and Solar did that the first time around until their worlds were woven together through future stories.

Just a few posts ago, i figured that whoever fills the role that Solar did would make for an ideal first title.

But perhaps that figure will remain in a god-like state that would be difficult to base an ongoing series upon. So Sting and the Harbingers could take that role instead with a Harbinger-centric VEI.

With that in mind - who ideally should the VEI 'universe' be built around?

Harada?

Harbinger was NAMED after Harada's compnay and "role", but it was never really focused on any one character, except maybe Pete or, later, Zeph. SO, yeah...it could work.

Interesting.... So the "god" of the universe is a bad guy.. very Cthulhu-esque...

[xodacia81]

I think that Harby will be first.


There are so many characters you can get into Harby.

Then X-O, Bloodshot, then the Eternal book. That should be good for about a year.

Unless of course they are going to do future books without Magnus, then maybe Rai.

It seems that every superhero universe has a cornerstone, and that would be the title to lead things off with. Magnus and Solar did that the first time around until their worlds were woven together through future stories.

Just a few posts ago, i figured that whoever fills the role that Solar did would make for an ideal first title.

But perhaps that figure will remain in a god-like state that would be difficult to base an ongoing series upon. So Sting and the Harbingers could take that role instead with a Harbinger-centric VEI.

With that in mind - who ideally should the VEI 'universe' be built around?

Harada?

Harbinger was NAMED after Harada's compnay and "role", but it was never really focused on any one character, except maybe Pete or, later, Zeph. SO, yeah...it could work.

Interesting.... So the "god" of the universe is a bad guy.. very Cthulhu-esque...

"Everything in that universe was based on powers of the mind, even the technology"-Jim Shooter. Applying this principle, would it be a stretch to imagine a scenario-without Solar-where someone LIKE him, is the genesis, yet instead of being as "godlike" as Solar, is more human? That, instead of a man playing god dreaming up a world of the fantastic, there is a man with extraordinary mental powers who has willed everything? Not nesc Harada, although he could be A focus...but, where did the Harbingers come from, if the old explination is no longer available? I hadn't exactly though of it in in Lovecraftian terms, but something based on real science, combining the real physical and MENTAL, could work as a "genesis." Interesting.

[ManofTheAtom]

Whatever happens next, everything is changed unless there is a radical turnabout with the GK properties, so canonicity may not be absolute.

We can't make any correct assumptions until we see published material.

Previous canonicity is intact, as shown in the hardcovers.

To base any arguments on 'what has gone before' when very important elements of 'what has gone before' are no longer available is trying to have an argument both ways.

They aren't available for future stories, but they are for past ones, like Solar in Harbinger and X-O.

Do you really think that they would remove him from A&A or a Shadowman hc when they've already used him twice?

We look forward to a world of fiction returning, where anything can or could happen. Acceptence of what that 'anything' is by the audience depends very much on the creative skills used. I like to keep an open mind and feel that I will be pleasantly surprised and that the plan will have some flexibility dependent on what is seen to work and what is seen to not work so well.

Jack's awareness of his death in 99 worked perfectly in stories like the Bloodrunners arc. Why change it?

[ManofTheAtom]

I think that Harby will be first.


There are so many characters you can get into Harby.

Then X-O, Bloodshot, then the Eternal book. That should be good for about a year.

Unless of course they are going to do future books without Magnus, then maybe Rai.

It seems that every superhero universe has a cornerstone, and that would be the title to lead things off with. Magnus and Solar did that the first time around until their worlds were woven together through future stories.

Just a few posts ago, i figured that whoever fills the role that Solar did would make for an ideal first title.

But perhaps that figure will remain in a god-like state that would be difficult to base an ongoing series upon. So Sting and the Harbingers could take that role instead with a Harbinger-centric VEI.

With that in mind - who ideally should the VEI 'universe' be built around?

If the uni is to be Harbicentric, then I would suggest the uni will revolve around the harbinger wars...

Definitely.

The Harbinger Wars promised a lot of development for the characters. Like we could see Archer and Flamingo's courtship and the birth of the Archies.

[yardstick]

I think that Harby will be first.


There are so many characters you can get into Harby.

Then X-O, Bloodshot, then the Eternal book. That should be good for about a year.

Unless of course they are going to do future books without Magnus, then maybe Rai.

It seems that every superhero universe has a cornerstone, and that would be the title to lead things off with. Magnus and Solar did that the first time around until their worlds were woven together through future stories.

Just a few posts ago, i figured that whoever fills the role that Solar did would make for an ideal first title.

But perhaps that figure will remain in a god-like state that would be difficult to base an ongoing series upon. So Sting and the Harbingers could take that role instead with a Harbinger-centric VEI.

With that in mind - who ideally should the VEI 'universe' be built around?

If the uni is to be Harbicentric, then I would suggest the uni will revolve around the harbinger wars...

Definitely.

The Harbinger Wars promised a lot of development for the characters. Like we could see Archer and Flamingo's courtship and the birth of the Archies.

We would also see conflict between XO and Harada.

With Solar out of the way (unavailable), Master Darque and Shadowman (Boniface) gone, and no need/way to rely upon the future stories of Magnus (remember how it seemed as if Rai was supposed to end right around the end of Unity- issue 10-12?) So I am guessing that Harada is gonna be the big bad guy in VEI, and VEI will focus on the Harbinger wars

[ManofTheAtom]

I think that Harby will be first.


There are so many characters you can get into Harby.

Then X-O, Bloodshot, then the Eternal book. That should be good for about a year.

Unless of course they are going to do future books without Magnus, then maybe Rai.

It seems that every superhero universe has a cornerstone, and that would be the title to lead things off with. Magnus and Solar did that the first time around until their worlds were woven together through future stories.

Just a few posts ago, i figured that whoever fills the role that Solar did would make for an ideal first title.

But perhaps that figure will remain in a god-like state that would be difficult to base an ongoing series upon. So Sting and the Harbingers could take that role instead with a Harbinger-centric VEI.

With that in mind - who ideally should the VEI 'universe' be built around?

If the uni is to be Harbicentric, then I would suggest the uni will revolve around the harbinger wars...

Definitely.

The Harbinger Wars promised a lot of development for the characters. Like we could see Archer and Flamingo's courtship and the birth of the Archies.

We would also see conflict between XO and Harada.

With Solar out of the way (unavailable), Master Darque and Shadowman (Boniface) gone, and no need/way to rely upon the future stories of Magnus (remember how it seemed as if Rai was supposed to end right around the end of Unity- issue 10-12?) So I am guessing that Harada is gonna be the big bad guy in VEI, and VEI will focus on the Harbinger wars

Yeah. And since nature abhors a vaccum, I'm sure that we'll see new characters fill up the void left by the ones you mentioned.

I could definitely see a new sort of magic-based villain that would try to take Darque's place (think Ori taking over after the Goul'd on Stargate), though I think that without the Darque Pool this new replacement villain should not be as powerful as Darque became.

[yardstick]

I think that Harby will be first.


There are so many characters you can get into Harby.

Then X-O, Bloodshot, then the Eternal book. That should be good for about a year.

Unless of course they are going to do future books without Magnus, then maybe Rai.

It seems that every superhero universe has a cornerstone, and that would be the title to lead things off with. Magnus and Solar did that the first time around until their worlds were woven together through future stories.

Just a few posts ago, i figured that whoever fills the role that Solar did would make for an ideal first title.

But perhaps that figure will remain in a god-like state that would be difficult to base an ongoing series upon. So Sting and the Harbingers could take that role instead with a Harbinger-centric VEI.

With that in mind - who ideally should the VEI 'universe' be built around?

If the uni is to be Harbicentric, then I would suggest the uni will revolve around the harbinger wars...

Definitely.

The Harbinger Wars promised a lot of development for the characters. Like we could see Archer and Flamingo's courtship and the birth of the Archies.

We would also see conflict between XO and Harada.

With Solar out of the way (unavailable), Master Darque and Shadowman (Boniface) gone, and no need/way to rely upon the future stories of Magnus (remember how it seemed as if Rai was supposed to end right around the end of Unity- issue 10-12?) So I am guessing that Harada is gonna be the big bad guy in VEI, and VEI will focus on the Harbinger wars

Yeah. And since nature abhors a vaccum, I'm sure that we'll see new characters fill up the void left by the ones you mentioned.

I could definitely see a new sort of magic-based villain that would try to take Darque's place (think Ori taking over after the Goul'd on Stargate), though I think that without the Darque Pool this new replacement villain should not be as powerful as Darque became.

What do you think about Fred Bender?

[depluto]

Yeah. And since nature abhors a vaccum, I'm sure that we'll see new characters fill up the void left by the ones you mentioned.

I could definitely see a new sort of magic-based villain that would try to take Darque's place (think Ori taking over after the Goul'd on Stargate), though I think that without the Darque Pool this new replacement villain should not be as powerful as Darque became.

That's the thing I'm really looking forward to ... the growth of the Valiant U and whatever new directions it takes.

[Zaphod]

IMO what VEI need to be doing is looking at what void they can be filling in the market. Its the model that Stan Lee and co. did when they were trying to take the superhero market from DC. It is the model Jim Shooter used when he launched Valiant the first time around.

DC and Marvel have changed their format to emulate a "more realistic" model, similar to what Valiant was. Not the same, similar. What can a new Valiant universe bring to the industry that nobody else has.

I suppose one of the same premises that it had before: Dead is dead. From a purely investment, marketing POV it is a detrimental facet to allow marketable characters to die but I imagine the hardcore fan would crap on Valiant if they ignored that modus operandi.

But more than that, what do people think Valiant can bring to the table to be the Anti-Marvel, Anti-DC, Anti-Image, Anti-Dark Horse?

[Zaphod]

A big question that I am looking forward to having answered is, will this new universe work in 2 different timelines as V1 did? It was a crazy plan IMO to begin and with the lack of Magnus I have to wonder if it would work a 2nd time?

I echo opinion that Harbinger is the flagship title to begin with.

[ManofTheAtom]

It seems that every superhero universe has a cornerstone, and that would be the title to lead things off with. Magnus and Solar did that the first time around until their worlds were woven together through future stories.

Just a few posts ago, i figured that whoever fills the role that Solar did would make for an ideal first title.

But perhaps that figure will remain in a god-like state that would be difficult to base an ongoing series upon. So Sting and the Harbingers could take that role instead with a Harbinger-centric VEI.

With that in mind - who ideally should the VEI 'universe' be built around?

If the uni is to be Harbicentric, then I would suggest the uni will revolve around the harbinger wars...

Definitely.

The Harbinger Wars promised a lot of development for the characters. Like we could see Archer and Flamingo's courtship and the birth of the Archies.

We would also see conflict between XO and Harada.

With Solar out of the way (unavailable), Master Darque and Shadowman (Boniface) gone, and no need/way to rely upon the future stories of Magnus (remember how it seemed as if Rai was supposed to end right around the end of Unity- issue 10-12?) So I am guessing that Harada is gonna be the big bad guy in VEI, and VEI will focus on the Harbinger wars

Yeah. And since nature abhors a vaccum, I'm sure that we'll see new characters fill up the void left by the ones you mentioned.

I could definitely see a new sort of magic-based villain that would try to take Darque's place (think Ori taking over after the Goul'd on Stargate), though I think that without the Darque Pool this new replacement villain should not be as powerful as Darque became.

What do you think about Fred Bender?

Any and all Darque powered villains ceased to be after 99. Wasn't Eclipse like a link to the Darque Pool??

[JustCallMeAric]

I think Harbinger has potential but I dont know that it has the most. I think its Shadowman.

[Drift]

IMO what VEI need to be doing is looking at what void they can be filling in the market. Its the model that Stan Lee and co. did when they were trying to take the superhero market from DC. It is the model Jim Shooter used when he launched Valiant the first time around.

DC and Marvel have changed their format to emulate a "more realistic" model, similar to what Valiant was. Not the same, similar. What can a new Valiant universe bring to the industry that nobody else has.

I suppose one of the same premises that it had before: Dead is dead. From a purely investment, marketing POV it is a detrimental facet to allow marketable characters to die but I imagine the hardcore fan would crap on Valiant if they ignored that modus operandi.

But more than that, what do people think Valiant can bring to the table to be the Anti-Marvel, Anti-DC, Anti-Image, Anti-Dark Horse?

They should stick to the dead is dead and the more realistic world outside the window kind of ideas they had before but definitely look at trying to steer clear of the whole dark brooding thing that other comics companies seem to have had since the 90's. Comics are a fun escape from the darkness not a chance to bring more of it into our lives.

Some of the most fun comics I have read recently are the younger audience-orientated books like the Jonny DC books, Billy Batson and the Power of Shazam, Justice League Adventures etc. and the younger aimed Tsunami books that Marvel did like Sentinel. They are more light hearted, fun stories than the mainstream books which seem more depressing.

I am also sick and tired of heroes fighting heroes and villains used as heroes stuff. They are good ideas when used occasionally but not all the time. One of the things I like about comics is the heroes and villains aspect of it. Sure , I know it is not all black and white but you should know who is good and who is bad.

[ManofTheAtom]

IMO what VEI need to be doing is looking at what void they can be filling in the market. Its the model that Stan Lee and co. did when they were trying to take the superhero market from DC. It is the model Jim Shooter used when he launched Valiant the first time around.

That's easy. Long as they don't pander to Silver Age fanboys like DC is doing and 70's fanboys like Marvel is doing, they're golden.

The need that the market needs filled is NEW ideas over the rehashed crap that DC and Marvel have been serving lately. It's not that different from how it was in 91.

Remember, it was VALIANT that influenced DC's Zero Month and Marvel's use of chronium covers back then. Those idiots got their best ideas from VALIANT. Just do that again, which is to say that instead of imitating DC like Nicieza did, VEI needs to come up with new ideas like VALIANT did over a decade ago, stuff that hasn't been done before (like zero issues, tight continuity, etc... things, which btw, would still be revolutionary today).

[ManofTheAtom]

A big question that I am looking forward to having answered is, will this new universe work in 2 different timelines as V1 did? It was a crazy plan IMO to begin and with the lack of Magnus I have to wonder if it would work a 2nd time?

I echo opinion that Harbinger is the flagship title to begin with.

I'd like to see a new Rai series.

[oldjello]

As a poster stated earlier, if a 60 million dollar Harbinger film is to be made, how will it be marketed? Will it be billed as an older comic story, or will that hang in obscurity? Sometimes associating films and comics can drive away potential viewers.

I see this as being a film with a very narrow audience (if it's ever to be made). I equate it to Serenity with its loyal fan base. I'm not taking anything away from it, but for the Valiant films franchise to keep moving, the first film needs to have amazing publicity, meaning the hype better be there.
Will it be "Children of the Eighth Day?"
The director slated (rumored) to direct the film has just bombed with the newest X-Files remake. I'm trying to keep everything in perspective.

[dino]

As a poster stated earlier, if a 60 million dollar Harbinger film is to be made, how will it be marketed? Will it be billed as an older comic story, or will that hang in obscurity? Sometimes associating films and comics can drive away potential viewers.

I see this as being a film with a very narrow audience (if it's ever to be made). I equate it to Serenity with its loyal fan base. I'm not taking anything away from it, but for the Valiant films franchise to keep moving, the first film needs to have amazing publicity, meaning the hype better be there.
Will it be "Children of the Eighth Day?"
The director slated (rumored) to direct the film has just bombed with the newest X-Files remake. I'm trying to keep everything in perspective.

I think you may have the directors confused. Chris Carter, of the X-Files, has no involvement with the Harbinger motion picture. Paramount is prepping the film as a big budget tent pole which translates from Hollywood speak to mainstream blockbuster.

[betterthanezra]

As a poster stated earlier, if a 60 million dollar Harbinger film is to be made, how will it be marketed? Will it be billed as an older comic story, or will that hang in obscurity? Sometimes associating films and comics can drive away potential viewers.

I see this as being a film with a very narrow audience (if it's ever to be made). I equate it to Serenity with its loyal fan base. I'm not taking anything away from it, but for the Valiant films franchise to keep moving, the first film needs to have amazing publicity, meaning the hype better be there.
Will it be "Children of the Eighth Day?"
The director slated (rumored) to direct the film has just bombed with the newest X-Files remake. I'm trying to keep everything in perspective.

Ok but the person rumored to be attactched as the director had Nothing to do with the X-Files Bomb thats out right now. Brent Rathner has been the only name attached to the Harbinger film so far. Chris Carter directed the X-Files movie.

Hellboy was a comic property in the same vein and I think that Harbinger has more Mass appeal to it then that Character.

-Brian

[betterthanezra]

Damn Dino beat me to it

-Brian

[Fanboy375]

As a poster stated earlier, if a 60 million dollar Harbinger film is to be made, how will it be marketed? Will it be billed as an older comic story, or will that hang in obscurity? Sometimes associating films and comics can drive away potential viewers.

I see this as being a film with a very narrow audience (if it's ever to be made). I equate it to Serenity with its loyal fan base. I'm not taking anything away from it, but for the Valiant films franchise to keep moving, the first film needs to have amazing publicity, meaning the hype better be there.
Will it be "Children of the Eighth Day?"
The director slated (rumored) to direct the film has just bombed with the newest X-Files remake. I'm trying to keep everything in perspective.

I can't wait to see this happen. I think Issues 0 thru 7 would make an INCREDIBLE movie. I hope that Solar shows up

I think you may have the directors confused. Chris Carter, of the X-Files, has no involvement with the Harbinger motion picture. Paramount is prepping the film as a big budget tent pole which translates from Hollywood speak to mainstream blockbuster.

[oldjello]

As a poster stated earlier, if a 60 million dollar Harbinger film is to be made, how will it be marketed? Will it be billed as an older comic story, or will that hang in obscurity? Sometimes associating films and comics can drive away potential viewers.

I see this as being a film with a very narrow audience (if it's ever to be made). I equate it to Serenity with its loyal fan base. I'm not taking anything away from it, but for the Valiant films franchise to keep moving, the first film needs to have amazing publicity, meaning the hype better be there.
Will it be "Children of the Eighth Day?"
The director slated (rumored) to direct the film has just bombed with the newest X-Files remake. I'm trying to keep everything in perspective.

Ok but the person rumored to be attactched as the director had Nothing to do with the X-Files Bomb thats out right now. Brent Rathner has been the only name attached to the Harbinger film so far. Chris Carter directed the X-Files movie.

Hellboy was a comic property in the same vein and I think that Harbinger has more Mass appeal to it then that Character.

-Brian

Sorry-- brain fart...
X-men Last Stand.
Too many XXX's.

[yardstick]

IMO what VEI need to be doing is looking at what void they can be filling in the market. Its the model that Stan Lee and co. did when they were trying to take the superhero market from DC. It is the model Jim Shooter used when he launched Valiant the first time around.

DC and Marvel have changed their format to emulate a "more realistic" model, similar to what Valiant was. Not the same, similar. What can a new Valiant universe bring to the industry that nobody else has.

I suppose one of the same premises that it had before: Dead is dead. From a purely investment, marketing POV it is a detrimental facet to allow marketable characters to die but I imagine the hardcore fan would crap on Valiant if they ignored that modus operandi.

But more than that, what do people think Valiant can bring to the table to be the Anti-Marvel, Anti-DC, Anti-Image, Anti-Dark Horse?

Keep the characters as regular people first, and superheroes second. Write the stories as such, that they use their powers when they must, rather than all the time...

[etos45]

As a poster stated earlier, if a 60 million dollar Harbinger film is to be made, how will it be marketed? Will it be billed as an older comic story, or will that hang in obscurity? Sometimes associating films and comics can drive away potential viewers.

I see this as being a film with a very narrow audience (if it's ever to be made). I equate it to Serenity with its loyal fan base. I'm not taking anything away from it, but for the Valiant films franchise to keep moving, the first film needs to have amazing publicity, meaning the hype better be there.
Will it be "Children of the Eighth Day?"
The director slated (rumored) to direct the film has just bombed with the newest X-Files remake. I'm trying to keep everything in perspective.

Ok but the person rumored to be attactched as the director had Nothing to do with the X-Files Bomb thats out right now. Brent Rathner has been the only name attached to the Harbinger film so far. Chris Carter directed the X-Files movie.

Hellboy was a comic property in the same vein and I think that Harbinger has more Mass appeal to it then that Character.

-Brian

Sorry-- brain fart...
X-men Last Stand.
Too many XXX's.

Well, I think I've said this before, but I loved Rathner's X-men, so I'm pretty optimistic about the Harbinger movie. Especially since he won't be tied to what came before.

[marvel1]

I cant say much since im not in the loop but this is first and foremost a business. The industry isnt what it was 20 years ago when you could publish for the love of comics, sure you would sell a ton but that was icing on the cake. I wouldnt blame VEI for doing what is best for themselves first, the characters will live on, if not in new stories then your hearts. Could you ask for anything more?
mac

[TKWill]

As a poster stated earlier, if a 60 million dollar Harbinger film is to be made, how will it be marketed? Will it be billed as an older comic story, or will that hang in obscurity? Sometimes associating films and comics can drive away potential viewers.

I see this as being a film with a very narrow audience (if it's ever to be made). I equate it to Serenity with its loyal fan base. I'm not taking anything away from it, but for the Valiant films franchise to keep moving, the first film needs to have amazing publicity, meaning the hype better be there.
Will it be "Children of the Eighth Day?"
The director slated (rumored) to direct the film has just bombed with the newest X-Files remake. I'm trying to keep everything in perspective.

Ok but the person rumored to be attactched as the director had Nothing to do with the X-Files Bomb thats out right now. Brent Rathner has been the only name attached to the Harbinger film so far. Chris Carter directed the X-Files movie.

Hellboy was a comic property in the same vein and I think that Harbinger has more Mass appeal to it then that Character.

-Brian

Sorry-- brain fart...
X-men Last Stand.
Too many XXX's.

In fairness, Rathner was brought in to finish a trilogy that someone else had started. I think that Rathner could do a much better job if it is his project from the start. The same can be said for anybody.