New Titles By Year's End

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:32 pm

Ryan wrote:Were Solar, Harbinger or X-O completely original concepts? Sometimes execution trumps originality of concept, especially in superhero/genre comics.

Sorry, I had not noticed this post when I was constructing my latest riposte to the latest MOTA statement of fact.

Just to say: well said.

yardstick · Post by **yardstick** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:11 pm

greg wrote:Why is it that writers are continuously asked to top their "best inventions"?

Most writers probably have one well-thought-out concept that they've spent
years honing into a cohesive story, complete concept, and well-knit plan
that they'd like to get into the hands of readers.

They "rise to power" because of that massive undertaking,
and when it's accepted, they're "the great new thing".
Then what?

Kinda Like Star Wars, or the Matrix

Or am I the only one who felt the sequels (Eps 1-3, Matrix 2, 3) to be a little contrived?

Someone says, "do it again, but make it better, and get done by next month."

What? That's insane.

That's business. (not apologizing for the business here) There has always been a conflict between the talent and the money-maker. A good example is the movie "That Thing You Do". Aren't these writers trying to make a paycheck? Now we're talking quantity over quality. Another inherent conflict...

Someone creates a work of art over the course of a few years,
and they're demanded to create another, better one, immediately?

Only if he wants to sell it for money. If the "art" is made for the purpose of the Arts, that's a different story than if the "art" is made for profit.

Could you do that to a sculpter?
Does an architect have to do that?

Actually, an architect gets paid to do just that. Now, if you are talking about someone who is an architect as a hobby, and not as a job, that's a different matter.

What happens to the songwriter who gets that demand?

You've heard the term "starving artist" before? Because Art for the sake of Art, does not put food in your belly, although it may put your name into the history books, if you're good enough, and usually after you're dead (of starvation).

Should an inventor immediately be required to create something better?

Actually, I think this is a bad example. Inventors create, not for artistic purposes, but because they see a need. "Necessity is the mother of invention"

It's always the same story. Lower quality the second time.
The rush to the "sophomore album" makes musicians into one-hit wonders.
The hurry for a sequel makes movies where everyone ends up hating Part Two.

What are the greatest stories of the comic book industry?
Well-planned tightly-woven long-term projects.

They come from "out of the blue" and blow the reader away.

You know why Watchmen is so good? Because Watchmen II didn't come out the next year.
You know why V for Vendetta is a classic? Because they didn't force V2, the Revenge.

The hurry comes from seeing $ signs.

Entertainment is supposed to entertain.
Here's my biggest "pet peeve" as far as television.
No, it's not reality shows. Though they are certainly derivative junk.

It's Soap Operas. Daytime TV, a team of writers churning out
drivel that is "acted out" by mannequins with dramatic speaking ability,
always including the secret twins, the birth of children who are 14 the next year,
women who just happen to have had eleven husbands, and their current fiance
who knows all those other guys were wrong for her but he's right.
Rich villains, innocent youths who are actually in on their daddy's evil plan.
Deaths... comas... amnesia... all in order for the same guy or gal to
"get better" in a month or a decade.

Stupid. Stupid-stupid-stupid.

...and what are soap operas? Long-term comic book series being written quickly and acted out.

The only difference between most comic book series and soap operas is the cover price.

No wonder I never liked soap operas...

Good things take time. A lot of time. A whole lot of time.

Gee, Mr. Edison, we love the new light bulb, now we need a digital billboard by next month.

What's easier to find?

Someone new with a great concept
-OR-
Someone old with another great concept

I'd say it's "someone new with a great concept".
Why?

Because you can discard 1,000 other "someone news" until you find the one "someone new" that has a truly great concept.

I direct your attention to King Solomon: "There is nothing new under the sun"

Whenever you're relying on "someone old", you can't choose someone new.
You're stuck. You would need that same "someone old", who had a great concept once,
to come up with 1,000 different concepts for you to choose from,
just to equal the amount of options that you would have had with "someone new".

How long would one person coming up with 1,000 different concept options take?
How long would it be between great concept #1 and great concept #2?
Five years? Ten?

It is also important to note the execution here. IF it takes 5 years, or 10 years to execute the story, you can go that route. If it takes considerably less "cycle time", Then you get stories like Star Wars, The Matrix, Heroes, Braveheart, et c. Which would you rather watch over and over again: Armageddon, or Star Wars?

Ever notice how often even the GREATEST writers take between two great concepts?
Five years... maybe ten. Maybe 20.

Asking even a great writer to "do it again, better than before" after a month is stupid.

Guess that means the "cheap stuff" is just filler until the next great blockbuster comes along. I bet the same thing happens in comics as in movies. Exactly how does Watchmen fit into the DC universe continuity (i.e. Batman, Supes, et c.)?

Valiant needs a long-term plan. They need a great concept that is thought out
in such detail that it will stay tightly-woven, concept-driven, goal-oriented,
for so many issues we'll wonder how it could even be possible.

I thought the long term plan was originally to follow the timeline (chronologically) from Harbinger through Magnus/Rai. It was clearly obvious when that long term plan changed: We started seeing things like Harbinger 25 - 26, Rai - Rain & FF, Secret Weapons, Starwatchers, Solar Destroyer, et al.

If not, we'll just end up with Harbinger #25 followed by Harbinger #26 again.
We'll get Rai #8 followed by a "Future Force".
We'll get the greatest armor in the universe turned into a bicycle.
We'll get titles that have absolutely nothing to do with the stories they used to represent.
We'll get twins, deaths-and-resurrections, shallow villains, disfunctional offspring, etc.

Not to mention Goats....

Like the other comic book companies.
Like soap operas.

Take the time to do it right or give me nothing at all.
It's cheaper and leads to less brain-damage.

Excellent commentary, greg

IanAlexavier · Post by **IanAlexavier** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:31 pm

Thats an impressive post, Yard.. its at least several yards long!

Cyberstrike · Post by **Cyberstrike** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:31 pm

Ryan wrote:Were Solar, Harbinger or X-O completely original concepts? Sometimes execution trumps originality of concept, especially in superhero/genre comics.

No, they were different variations of Gold Key, DC, Marvel Universe, and New Universe characters.

Star Brand = Solar, Man of the Atom (which was a variation of GK's Dr. Solar, Man of the Atom)

DP7 = Habringer (which is a variation of Teen Titans and X-Men)

Spitfire = X-O Manowar (which is a variation of Iron Man)

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:32 pm

Spitfire was a Visigoth in an alien armor?

Cyberstrike · Post by **Cyberstrike** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:39 pm

ManofTheAtom wrote:Spitfire was a Visigoth in an alien armor?

No, Spitfire was a girl in a man made battle suit. Which is really just a different take on Iron Man.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:42 pm

Cyberstrike wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:Spitfire was a Visigoth in an alien armor?
No, Spitfire was a girl in a man made battle suit. Which is really just a different take on Iron Man.

"Individuals in armor" is an idea, not a concept.

"An industrialist in an armor", "a Visigoth in an armor", and "a scientist in an armor" are concepts.

That's what drives the storytelling.

You cannot tell the same stories you would with an industrialist in an armor than you would with a Visigoth in an armor.

In other words, it was not because Aric was a Visigoth in an armor that he got to run Orb Industries. That was because the writer, Layton, wanted someone like Iron Man with his own company.

The story could have gone in a completely different direction, with Aric being more like Conan and using the armor to carve an empire for himself the same way Conan used a sword.

The execution of the story (i.e. "the Visigoth in an armor gets his own company") was completely independant from the concept (i.e. "a Visigoth in an armor")

Cyberstrike · Post by **Cyberstrike** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:46 pm

ManofTheAtom wrote:
Cyberstrike wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:Spitfire was a Visigoth in an alien armor?
No, Spitfire was a girl in a man made battle suit. Which is really just a different take on Iron Man.
"Individuals in armor" is an idea, not a concept.

"An industrialist in an armor", "a Visigoth in an armor", and "a scientist in an armor" are concepts.

That's what drives the storytelling.

You cannot tell the same stories you would with an industrialist in an armor than you would with a Visigoth in an armor.

In other words, it was not because Aric was a Visigoth in an armor that he got to run Orb Industries. That was because the writer, Layton, wanted someone like Iron Man with his own company.

The story could have gone in a completely different direction, with Aric being more like Conan and using the armor to carve an empire for himself the same way Conan used a sword.

The execution of the story (i.e. "the Visigoth in an armor gets his own company") was completely independant from the concept (i.e. "a Visigoth in an armor")

If you say so.

Dr. Solar · Post by **Dr. Solar** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:15 pm

concept –noun
1. a general notion or idea; conception.

idea –noun
1. any conception existing in the mind as a result of mental understanding, awareness, or activity.
2. a thought, conception, or notion

Seems the two are basically the same thing.

TKWill · Post by **TKWill** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:50 pm

IanAlexavier wrote:

Thats an impressive post, Yard.. its at least several yards long!

His triumphant return!

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:00 am

Dr. Solar wrote:concept –noun
1. a general notion or idea; conception.

idea –noun
1. any conception existing in the mind as a result of mental understanding, awareness, or activity.
2. a thought, conception, or notion

Seems the two are basically the same thing.

Except in MOTA land, it would seem...

Dr. Solar · Post by **Dr. Solar** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:21 am

leonmallett wrote:Except in MOTA land, it would seem...

..we'd like to welcome you to MotA LAND!

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:23 am

Hey, morons, did you know that concept is also an adjective?

Main Entry: 2concept
Function: adjective
Date: 1896
1 : organized around a main idea or theme <a concept album>
2 : created to illustrate a concept <a concept car>

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:59 am

Dr. Solar wrote:concept –noun
1. a general notion or idea; conception.

idea –noun
1. any conception existing in the mind as a result of mental understanding, awareness, or activity.
2. a thought, conception, or notion

Seems the two are basically the same thing.

Yet, as it turns out, concept is also an adjective with a second, separate meaning.

Gee, you'd think you would know that... tsk, tsk

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:01 am

Dr. Solar wrote:
leonmallett wrote:Except in MOTA land, it would seem...

..we'd like to welcome you to MotA LAND!

Well, in "MOTA land" (i.e. the real world), concept is both a noun AND an adjective.

I guess that the ones living in a fantasy land are you two, a fantasy land in which concept is only a noun.

Such ignorance... tsk, tsk... you two just made every teacher you ever had cry.

Dr. Solar · Post by **Dr. Solar** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:12 am

You DO realize that every time you used the word "concept", that you were using it as a noun, so the adjective meaning is pretty much irrelevant to this conversation. You DO realize that, right?

Nice try though..

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:13 am

Dr. Solar wrote:You DO realize that every time you used the word "concept", that you were using it as a noun, so the adjective meaning is pretty much irrelevant to this conversation. You DO realize that, right?

Nice try though..

No I wasn't.

"Individuals in armor" is an idea, not a concept.

"An industrialist in an armor", "a Visigoth in an armor", and "a scientist in an armor" are concepts.

organized around a main idea or theme

"Individual in armor" is the main idea

"Industrialist in armor", "Visigoth in armor", and "Scientist in armor" are concepts organized around that main idea.

Dr. Solar · Post by **Dr. Solar** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:17 am

ManofTheAtom wrote:
Dr. Solar wrote:You DO realize that every time you used the word "concept", that you were using it as a noun, so the adjective meaning is pretty much irrelevant to this conversation. You DO realize that, right?

Nice try though..
No I wasn't.

ManofTheAtom wrote: "Individuals in armor" is an idea, not a concept.

"An industrialist in an armor", "a Visigoth in an armor", and "a scientist in an armor" are concepts.

Well, according to the rules of grammar you were, as you can see above.

"Individuals in armor" is an idea, not a concept.

"An industrialist in an armor", "a Visigoth in an armor", and "a scientist in an armor" are concepts.

organized around a main idea or theme
"Individual in armor" is the main idea

"Industrialist in armor", "Visigoth in armor", and "Scientist in armor" are concepts organized around that main idea.

There! You used it as a noun again!

Have a nice day, MotA, I'm gonna go enjoy the sunshine!

dellamorte · Post by **dellamorte** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:19 am

JustCallMeAric · Post by **JustCallMeAric** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:22 am

and I always thought I would never need to know what an adverb was

Cyberstrike · Post by **Cyberstrike** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:58 pm

ManofTheAtom wrote:
Dr. Solar wrote:You DO realize that every time you used the word "concept", that you were using it as a noun, so the adjective meaning is pretty much irrelevant to this conversation. You DO realize that, right?

Nice try though..
No I wasn't.

"Individuals in armor" is an idea, not a concept.

"An industrialist in an armor", "a Visigoth in an armor", and "a scientist in an armor" are concepts.

organized around a main idea or theme
"Individual in armor" is the main idea

"Industrialist in armor", "Visigoth in armor", and "Scientist in armor" are concepts organized around that main idea.

There are other versions of the same concept/idea
a normal teenager in alien armor (Tech Jacket).
borderline pyscho kid in armor (Armor X).
Latio test pilot in armor (Prototype).
Black Man in armor (War Machine)

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:59 pm

Cyberstrike wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:
Dr. Solar wrote:You DO realize that every time you used the word "concept", that you were using it as a noun, so the adjective meaning is pretty much irrelevant to this conversation. You DO realize that, right?

Nice try though..
No I wasn't.

"Individuals in armor" is an idea, not a concept.

"An industrialist in an armor", "a Visigoth in an armor", and "a scientist in an armor" are concepts.

organized around a main idea or theme
"Individual in armor" is the main idea

"Industrialist in armor", "Visigoth in armor", and "Scientist in armor" are concepts organized around that main idea.
The same with a normal teenager in alien armor (Tech Jacket) or
borderline pyscho kid in armor (Armor X) or Latio test pilot in battle
armor (Prototype).

Exactly. All those concepts come from the idea of an individual in a suit of armor.

jedimarley · Post by **jedimarley** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 2:14 pm

Cyberstrike wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:
Dr. Solar wrote:You DO realize that every time you used the word "concept", that you were using it as a noun, so the adjective meaning is pretty much irrelevant to this conversation. You DO realize that, right?

Nice try though..
No I wasn't.

"Individuals in armor" is an idea, not a concept.

"An industrialist in an armor", "a Visigoth in an armor", and "a scientist in an armor" are concepts.

organized around a main idea or theme
"Individual in armor" is the main idea

"Industrialist in armor", "Visigoth in armor", and "Scientist in armor" are concepts organized around that main idea.

There are other versions of the same concept/idea
a normal teenager in alien armor (Tech Jacket).
borderline pyscho kid in armor (Armor X).
Latio test pilot in armor (Prototype).
Black Man in armor (War Machine)

Don't forget Zoom Suit.

Knightt · Post by **Knightt** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:50 pm

jedimarley wrote:
Cyberstrike wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:
Dr. Solar wrote:You DO realize that every time you used the word "concept", that you were using it as a noun, so the adjective meaning is pretty much irrelevant to this conversation. You DO realize that, right?

Nice try though..
No I wasn't.

"Individuals in armor" is an idea, not a concept.

"An industrialist in an armor", "a Visigoth in an armor", and "a scientist in an armor" are concepts.

organized around a main idea or theme
"Individual in armor" is the main idea

"Industrialist in armor", "Visigoth in armor", and "Scientist in armor" are concepts organized around that main idea.

There are other versions of the same concept/idea
a normal teenager in alien armor (Tech Jacket).
borderline pyscho kid in armor (Armor X).
Latio test pilot in armor (Prototype).
Black Man in armor (War Machine)
Don't forget Zoom Suit.

DAMMIT, I have tried and tried... and it keeps coming back.

IanAlexavier · Post by **IanAlexavier** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:59 pm

Ok, so we have titles on the way.. in less than 10 months we will be holding a actual VALIANT comic in our hands!!

Are we thinking that the new issues will follow the same release as the hardcover collections?

Harbinger
X-O
Shadowman
Rai
Ninjak

..and... will there be an event to the release??

Or.. will they all be released at once??

Ok, as far as time lines, when should we see advertisements regarding the new release?? 3 months ahead?? if it was 3 months then the latest we would see advertising would be in August/October...

Anyone?