Next "new" story?

yardstick · Post by **yardstick** » Thu May 01, 2008 3:18 pm

cjv wrote:I think a female Rai would certainly be interesting...no reason that it couldn't be done.

Just so long as we don't have
Rai
Female Rai
Kid Rai
Superpowered Dog Rai
Reverse Rai
Bizzaro Rai
etc..

Chris

not to mention the Goat Rai...

yardstick · Post by **yardstick** » Thu May 01, 2008 3:20 pm

cjv wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:I think that there are a lot of places that the story of Grandmother's origin can go.

We can have twists and turns galore, like revealing that Grandmother originally based her champion on someone other than Bloodshot (i.e. originally she designed it on Solar, but every time she exposed the volunteers to radiation they died).

Maybe even say that the founder of the Anti-Grannies was also one of the people that worked on the Grandmother project or something.
IMO, if there is a big robot guardian of Japan, the first inclination would be to create some sort of robot guardian - something she controlled potentially. Or maybe a freewill that was modified?

That seems to be the first logical step. Why empower a human? (Unless, of course, in creating a robot guardian, something happened that made her realize she NEEDED to empower a human).

Or what if the founder of the anti-grannies was also somehow involved in a proto-Rai?

Chris

What if the founder of the Anti-grannies WAS the proto Rai? Or perhaps even Sho Sugino?

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Thu May 01, 2008 3:22 pm

yardstick wrote:What if the founder of the Anti-grannies WAS the proto Rai? Or perhaps even Sho Sugino?

ManofTheAtom wrote:
Or what if the founder of the anti-grannies was also somehow involved in a proto-Rai?
Founder of the Anti-Grannies = Proto Rai ?

yardstick · Post by **yardstick** » Thu May 01, 2008 3:23 pm

superman-prime wrote:I think shadowman will be Darque
and Rai should be Grandmother kinda a evolution to how she bacame and meat 1-a

I always liked the early Rai stuff

That is an interesting twist... Darque was originally a Shadowman....

How intriguing...

Chiclo · Post by **Chiclo** » Thu May 01, 2008 3:24 pm

yardstick wrote:
cjv wrote:I think a female Rai would certainly be interesting...no reason that it couldn't be done.

Just so long as we don't have
Rai
Female Rai
Kid Rai
Superpowered Dog Rai
Reverse Rai
Bizzaro Rai
etc..

Chris

not to mention the Goat Rai...

yardstick · Post by **yardstick** » Thu May 01, 2008 3:27 pm

ManofTheAtom wrote:
BloodOfHeroes wrote:Picking up with Bloodshot #52 would just result in the same lackluster response.
BoH
That's not going to happen. Don't expect to see a "Quantum & Woody #32"-style scenario.

The numbering will most likely not be continued, but the CONTENT can follow up from where the issues left off.

That's what Shooter did with Magnus.

Let's not forget that Shooter's original plan for the super hero universe was to publish "Magnus trades" that would bring people up to speed on character and concepts before they rolled out of the "new material" (and that new material was not a reboot, it was a continuation of the stories found in the trades).

What is VEI doing if not following up on Shooter's original idea?

They started out by releasing hardcovers of the original material to bring new readers up to speed and introduce the characters and concepts before they roll out the new material.

Hopefully that new material will NOT be a reboot as well and it'll continue the story from where it left off.

Like I said in another thread, considering the era in which the original Magnus comics were published, it's very likely that at least one of those stories had ideas that were worse than the X-O bike or even a four-legged beast on a first name basis... I can't finish that sentence with a straight face. Not even the 60's were that stupid...

Anyway, it is likely that at least one Magnus comic had a worse idea than the X-O bike, but for Shooter that did not disqualify it from being in continuity and it still counted, he just didn't bring it up.

VEI can do the same. Yes, the X-O bike is in continuity, no it doesn't matter one way or another.

I like your idea about "not bringing it up"... very simple, elegant solution to any continuity gaffs from VH1 and VH2...

yardstick · Post by **yardstick** » Thu May 01, 2008 3:30 pm

BloodOfHeroes wrote:I think you're going to be a very surprised and shaken man when VEI finally rolls out full-scale, MOTA.

dino wrote:As I've said before there are no favourites, no extra information given to anyone save project specific work such as Mota and the Book of Geomancer wiki, Greg and the integration of the message board. Those who claim to know something that is not public are misinformed.
(viewtopic.php?t=20652)
I can easily think of at least 5 ways VEI might do something differently than you've outlined here.

I'd like to hear those... If you don't mind...

BloodOfHeroes · Post by **BloodOfHeroes** » Thu May 01, 2008 6:11 pm

yardstick wrote:not to mention the Goat Rai...

Ah, it's already been done to death...

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Thu May 01, 2008 6:12 pm

If the Goat had nanites and needed to absorb meat to regenerate a wound, would it use a man like Bloodshot used a cat?

BloodOfHeroes · Post by **BloodOfHeroes** » Thu May 01, 2008 6:33 pm

There's a singer who goes by the name'a Lennon (sans surname, which is "Murphy") and she has a song entitled, "Property of Goatf*cker."

Hmm. What that has to do with this topic, *I* certainly don't know.

superman-prime · Post by **superman-prime** » Thu May 01, 2008 7:17 pm

dont go getting the thread locked now

BloodOfHeroes · Post by **BloodOfHeroes** » Thu May 01, 2008 8:07 pm

superman-prime wrote:dont go getting the thread locked now

Don't I know it. My stats couldn't take the hit.

yardstick · Post by **yardstick** » Fri May 02, 2008 7:34 am

ManofTheAtom wrote:
Draco wrote:
cjv wrote:I think a female Rai would certainly be interesting...no reason that it couldn't be done.

Just so long as we don't have
Rai
Female Rai
Kid Rai
Superpowered Dog Rai
Reverse Rai
Bizzaro Rai
etc..

Chris

Ah, cmon dude,

Bizarro is the best.

Bizarro Rai is a white skinned dude from the California valley.

I thought he'd be red-skinned with a white dot...

BloodOfHeroes · Post by **BloodOfHeroes** » Fri May 02, 2008 8:07 am

yardstick wrote:
cjv wrote:I think a female Rai would certainly be interesting...no reason that it couldn't be done.

Just so long as we don't have
Rai
Female Rai
Kid Rai
Superpowered Dog Rai
Reverse Rai
Bizzaro Rai
etc..

Chris
I thought he'd be red-skinned with a white dot...

(hope I got that quote correctly attributed).

Red-skinned with a white dot? Like MAC's Speedshots, bottom?

yardstick · Post by **yardstick** » Fri May 02, 2008 8:12 am

Shadowman, Harbinger, Solar, A&A, X-O Manowar, Rai, and Harbinger all used plots from Shooter or the other writers involved in the pre Unity titles except for EW, which we know used a different plot from the one that appeared in Previews).

Mota, can you share the previews plot? I missed it the first time around...

Thanks

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Fri May 02, 2008 8:16 am

yardstick wrote:
Shadowman, Harbinger, Solar, A&A, X-O Manowar, Rai, and Harbinger all used plots from Shooter or the other writers involved in the pre Unity titles except for EW, which we know used a different plot from the one that appeared in Previews).
Mota, can you share the previews plot? I missed it the first time around...

Thanks

http://www.valiantcomics.com/valiant/postunityprev.asp

See if it opens for you. Now that I remember, the other titles also had some minor differences, like Andar the Geomancer in Solar instead of Geoff, but for the most part, the solicits reflect the published comics.

yardstick · Post by **yardstick** » Fri May 02, 2008 8:30 am

ManofTheAtom wrote:
If we did that, we wouldn't have Harada's wife or Rowena. Prior to their publication, there was NO evidence from the comics that they existed.
There was no evidence that they didn't exist.

I believe this constitutes a double negative; and thus:

"There was evidence that they did exist"

yardstick · Post by **yardstick** » Fri May 02, 2008 8:31 am

ManofTheAtom wrote:
If we did that, we wouldn't have Harada's wife or Rowena. Prior to their publication, there was NO evidence from the comics that they existed.
There was no evidence that they didn't exist.

I keep asking you for evidence that robots like the ones required for Grandmother to create a champion could have existed in the timeframe being discussed, but like always you refuse to open the comics to find it.

Why is it that you can never go get your comics out of their boxes to flip through them during these arguments?

Aboslutely. And thus, unless there is something saying the idea is inconsitant than it can happen.

So it needs to be shown to be inconsitant with previous dogma, NOT that the idea is already shown to exist.
Robots in the timeframe being discussed is inconsistant with the given dogma. If robots had existed, then freewills would have appeared long before 4001.

So tell me - is the idea of robots in Japan inconsistant with what we know about Japan from 3000 to 4000 AD? If not, than according to your previous quote (it must be consistant) then it COULD happen.
Robots in general in the timeframe being discussed is inconsistant with what we know about VALIANT's future.

Hmm...here is the story.

Grandmother, the newly freewill mainframe, tries to crate an autonomous robot to act as her "enforcer" - the guardian of Japan. She creates a robot to do it, (the proto-Rai), only to discover the technology doesn't exist yet to sufficiently allow a autonomous, powerful robot like she envisions. The robot goes "crazy", destroys half of Japan, leading some citizens to start an Anti-Grannie movement. Grandmother destroys this proto-Rai, and realizes that she needs to create a human guardian. While not under her direct control, it will have the required ability to think on it's own to act as guardian.
If that happened, then why did Geoff have Solar send Magnus to 3975? Why not send him to a time 26 years before Grandmother's robot went berserk so that he would be old enough to stop him?

It would be inconsistent with the Gold Key continuity...

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Fri May 02, 2008 8:33 am

yardstick wrote:It would be inconsistent with the Gold Key continuity...

Exactly, and that's the whole point, to turn VALIANT continuity into Gold Key continuity.

The purpose of Rai 0 was to turn Harbinger, Solar, and X-O Manowar's world into Magnus' world and make it consistant with what Manning created, which is why there can't be robots more advanced than the ones he came up with in the timeframe being discussed.

yardstick · Post by **yardstick** » Fri May 02, 2008 9:01 am

ManofTheAtom wrote:
... like the one on Neptune where Torque found Armstrong.

When did this happen?

I missed this...

yardstick · Post by **yardstick** » Fri May 02, 2008 9:04 am

cjv wrote:
X-O HoboJoe wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:
X-O HoboJoe wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:
X-O HoboJoe wrote: Just for perspective are we talking current Japan or giant-flying-lizard-in-space-Japan?
The latter
Roger.
Um.. it's Mike.

I was only gone for less than two weeks and you already forgot my name ( )
They say the memory's the second thing to go . . .
Who! What? Where did it go? Is that mine?

Chris

"Of the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most..."

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Fri May 02, 2008 9:04 am

yardstick wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:
... like the one on Neptune where Torque found Armstrong.

When did this happen?

I missed this...

http://www.valiantentertainment.com/wik ... 0Geomancer

It happened in Magnus 43-44-45 I think

yardstick · Post by **yardstick** » Fri May 02, 2008 9:30 am

ManofTheAtom wrote:
cjv wrote:It's the standard you insist on when other people make suggestions that you don't like or disagree with.

Does that mean you will drop this idea, since it can't be proven (please don't, it's a cool idea). When I suggested something about that "limited time frame", you insisted I had to be able to prove it was true. You said I had to prove robots were around in 3050.

Chris
The difference between your idea and mine is as follows.

The comics have already established that robots like the one you want cannot exist in the time frame given. Robots would need to be more advanced than ones like 1-A in order to be champions that would serve a purpose.

Perhaps Japanese robots are more advanced than North Am robots?

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Fri May 02, 2008 9:32 am

yardstick wrote:Perhaps Japanese robots are more advanced than North Am robots?

It's not a matter of technology but need. The Japanese people did not require robots to police, tender their guardens, built for them, etc, like the North Americans did since Grandmother took care of that for them.

Grandmother was one giant robot that performed the same duties than the billions of individual robots did in North Am, so the Japanese people had no need to create more robots to perform the same functions as her.

yardstick · Post by **yardstick** » Fri May 02, 2008 10:11 am

ManofTheAtom wrote:
cjv wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:
cjv wrote:Actually there is evidence of highly advanced robots that existed prior to Magnus' time.

Proteus came from 2045 or 2055 (according the entry on the Valiant wikipedia).

Proteus is a highly advanced robot, and existed prior to Magnus' time.

Chris
Until Bloodshot destroyed him, at which point he ceased to exist.

Just because Proteus existed it doesn't mean that others like him could exist as well.

Proteus was an isolated case of a virus that evolved into a nanite-based lifeform that traveled into the past.
Oh I see...an isolated case.

It happened once..but..but..but...it can't happen ever again!

Whatever man.

Chris
No, it can't happen again.

The people who created Proteus, Yoshi and Ito, were killed, while Proteus was destroyed.

Yoshi? Ito? very Japanese sounding names...