New Titles By Year's End

siren3-4 · Post by **siren3-4** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:09 am

hulk181man wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:
Geomancer wrote:undiscovered talent=man of the atom?

established talent= not man of the atom

I'm not meaning to be harsh or negative here, but perhaps this is a key to understanding things. Just an observation.

Its very human and understandable.

Quantum & Woody holding their dicks in the bathroom

I don't know about you, but I'd rather not see a repeat of that

Hold on there, buddy....that was one of the funniest scenes in the entire series! I thought Priest was rather clever with that -- putting a new spin on the cliched body switcheroo.

Think about it...if you and your best bud could actually switch bodies....would you really want to handle each others' junk??

OK . . now I have to hunt down and read these . . .

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:18 am

The Leaf wrote:I believe the correct phrase was "Knob Row". This is referenced to where a series of desks were utulized by young artists and veterans such as layton took time to teach concepts to the students as the created pages for issues.

Yeah.

Suggesting that VEI bring back Knob Row means having seasoned talent teach new talent, like before, instead of solely hiring established freelancers like with BQuake and VH 2.

xodacia81 · Post by **xodacia81** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:57 am

Yes. What I want is the type of talent and missionVALIANT began with, not the BQ/VH2 era.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:18 am

The question here is not

"Which freelancers should VEI hire to work on the individual titles?"

But

"Which established talent should VEI hire to teach new talent on Knob Row?"

For instance (just throwing random names here), say that VEI hired Joe Kubert and Scott McCloud to run the artistic side and writing side of Knob Row respectively, and hired Jim Shooter to be the head editor.

xodacia81 · Post by **xodacia81** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:24 am

That would work. If he had not just passed away, having an old hand like DS might have worked, too. I think, as I've said many times before, it is about finding the right TALENT. This could be those who have come before WITH success-especially within the VALIANT universe-or those who are unknown but could work. It is about having the right people at the right time. Also, remember what Priest said. Catering to Fan Boys-readers/creators alike-is not what the industry needs, although it must keep them somewhat happy. It needs to be itself and stay true to the concepts it was founded on. Words to live by.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:27 am

xodacia81 wrote:That would work. If he had not just passed away, having an old hand like DS might have worked, too. I think, as I've said many times before, it is about finding the right TALENT. This could be those who have come before WITH success-especially within the VALIANT universe-or those who are unknown but could work. It is about having the right people at the right time. Also, remember what Priest said. Catering to Fan Boys-readers/creators alike-is not what the industry needs, although it must keep them somewhat happy. It needs to be itself and stay true to the concepts it was founded on. Words to live by.

That's a quote I've used to attack Busiek and other hacks with.

StarBrand · Post by **StarBrand** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:36 am

ManofTheAtom wrote:
xodacia81 wrote:That would work. If he had not just passed away, having an old hand like DS might have worked, too. I think, as I've said many times before, it is about finding the right TALENT. This could be those who have come before WITH success-especially within the VALIANT universe-or those who are unknown but could work. It is about having the right people at the right time. Also, remember what Priest said. Catering to Fan Boys-readers/creators alike-is not what the industry needs, although it must keep them somewhat happy. It needs to be itself and stay true to the concepts it was founded on. Words to live by.
That's a quote I've used to attack Busiek and other hacks with.

MOTA,
Calling Busiek a hack is a pretty funny joke.

Thanks for the laugh.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:40 am

StarBrand wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:
xodacia81 wrote:That would work. If he had not just passed away, having an old hand like DS might have worked, too. I think, as I've said many times before, it is about finding the right TALENT. This could be those who have come before WITH success-especially within the VALIANT universe-or those who are unknown but could work. It is about having the right people at the right time. Also, remember what Priest said. Catering to Fan Boys-readers/creators alike-is not what the industry needs, although it must keep them somewhat happy. It needs to be itself and stay true to the concepts it was founded on. Words to live by.
That's a quote I've used to attack Busiek and other hacks with.
MOTA,
Calling Busiek a hack is a pretty funny joke. Thanks for the laugh.

Read his Superman. He's been plagirizing stuff from the 60's and 70's.

He also stole from 60's Flash and Spider-Man for Ninjak.

"Ninjak of Two Worlds"?

Give me a break...

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:50 am

dude (mota), is there a current comics writer you don't hate with a passion?

As for Knob Row, comic production has changed a lot in the last 15+ years with the internet and ease of information transfer. A lot people who collaborate on the same project don't live in the same area. I don't think anyone in N. America uses 'studio' production like Valiant did in the beginning. Not saying it couldn't happen, it would be awesome, but it's definitely not the norm today as it was years ago.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:54 am

As for Knob Row, comic production has changed a lot in the last 15+ years with the internet and ease of information transfer. A lot people who collaborate on the same project don't live in the same area. I don't think anyone in N. America uses 'studio' production like Valiant did in the beginning. Not saying it couldn't happen, it would be awesome, but it's definitely not the norm today as it was years ago.

Company bullpens, like Marvel's, Crossgen's, and Knob Row are no longer the norm, but artists and even writers do tend to work together in studios.

For instance, Jeph Loeb and Geoff Johns share a studio with someone else I forget.

Dan Jolley, Tony Harris, and others have (or had) their own studio as well. And there are others (I wouldn't be surprised if Michael Turner's Aspen was a studio).

Top Cow had a group of artists (I don't know if that is still true or not, and I forget their name) who worked on the art (mainly stuff like inks and backgrounds) to help meet deadlines.

The practice of studios itself is still very much current, what is not so current is the company bullpens, which is what Knob Rob basically was.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:06 pm

you're right, I've seen pictures of the Top Cow studio. I know in Japan they still use a lot of 'Knob row' type assistants to do backgrounds, zip-a-tone, etc. Kind of a peanuts job though.

StarBrand · Post by **StarBrand** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:47 pm

ManofTheAtom wrote:
StarBrand wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:
xodacia81 wrote:That would work. If he had not just passed away, having an old hand like DS might have worked, too. I think, as I've said many times before, it is about finding the right TALENT. This could be those who have come before WITH success-especially within the VALIANT universe-or those who are unknown but could work. It is about having the right people at the right time. Also, remember what Priest said. Catering to Fan Boys-readers/creators alike-is not what the industry needs, although it must keep them somewhat happy. It needs to be itself and stay true to the concepts it was founded on. Words to live by.
That's a quote I've used to attack Busiek and other hacks with.
MOTA,
Calling Busiek a hack is a pretty funny joke. Thanks for the laugh.
Read his Superman. He's been plagirizing stuff from the 60's and 70's.

He also stole from 60's Flash and Spider-Man for Ninjak.

"Ninjak of Two Worlds"?

Give me a break...

I guess I could point out The New Universe and Secret Wars 2 and say Jim Shooter is a terrible writer using your logic. Those are two works Shooter is often blasted for. Shooter is my favorite comic writer, and I'm actually quite fond of The New Unverse.
The New Universe was so far ahead of its' time no one knew what was going on when it came out. We can now understand The New Universe better now that we have Valiant. I consider The Beyonder as one of the most important characters introduced in comics in the modern era, so I'm not blasting Shooter for those stories.
Greg Rucka said all writers are thieves. Certainly all comic writers are influenced by other writers, whether said writers are in the comics field or another field.
Read the six issue Astro City series. That's probably one of the ten best comic stories I've ever read.
Your calling a professional comic book writer the quality of a Kurt Busiek a hack doesn't make it so.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:48 pm

StarBrand wrote:Read the six issue Astro City series. That's probably one of the ten best comic stories I've ever read.
Your calling a professional comic book writer the quality of a Kurt Busiek a hack doesn't make it so.

My calling him may not make it so, but the work he writes does.

Busiek is not stealing by mistake, or stealing because he's out of ideas, he's intentionally taking stories from the 60's and 70's and reusing them to satisfy his nostalgia.

StarBrand · Post by **StarBrand** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:52 pm

ManofTheAtom wrote:
StarBrand wrote:Read the six issue Astro City series. That's probably one of the ten best comic stories I've ever read.
Your calling a professional comic book writer the quality of a Kurt Busiek a hack doesn't make it so.
My calling him may not make it so, but the work he writes does.

Busiek is not stealing by mistake, or stealing because he's out of ideas, he's intentionally taking stories from the 60's and 70's and reusing them to satisfy his nostalgia.

Have you ever read the original Astro City story he wrote? It's right up there with anything I've ever read. I probably enjoy it as much as Star Brand.

Signed,

Star Brand

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:57 pm

StarBrand wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:
StarBrand wrote:Read the six issue Astro City series. That's probably one of the ten best comic stories I've ever read.
Your calling a professional comic book writer the quality of a Kurt Busiek a hack doesn't make it so.
My calling him may not make it so, but the work he writes does.

Busiek is not stealing by mistake, or stealing because he's out of ideas, he's intentionally taking stories from the 60's and 70's and reusing them to satisfy his nostalgia.
Have you ever read the original Astro City story he wrote? It's right up there with anything I've ever read. I probably enjoy it as much as Star Brand.

Signed,

Star Brand

We're not talking about Astro City, we're talking about Superman.

I'm not talking about you here, but only fanboys think of writers in generalized terms that say that everything they do is crap.

Just because Astro City is good, it does NOT automatically mean that Superman willbe good, or that Avengers will be good, or that Ninjak will be good.

Each singular project has to stand and fall on its own merits, NOT the merits of the credit box.

Thinking like that is what makes fan boys say that something like Morrison's 1234 mini series is great because he wrote it even though he thinks that Sue Richards wants her brother to have sex with her, or that Waid's Birthright has to be great because Kingdom Come was great.

This is fanboy thinking.

It is possible for Morrison's JLA to be great and for his 1234 mini to suck, just like it is possible for Waid's Flash and KC to be great and Birthright to suck, or for Busiek's Astro City to be great and Superman to suck.

I like to approach different comics individualy even if they are by the same writer.

Not everything one writer does will ever be great, they can write *SQUEE* too, and when it comes to Superman that's all Busiek did, *SQUEE* all over it.

StarBrand · Post by **StarBrand** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:08 pm

Everything you state here is pretty obvious. Okay, if that makes Busiek a hack in your eyes, so be it. Go ahead and insult him like that. I take exception to it, but I don't want to hijack this thread about new Valiant titles in further discussion about it.
By the way, I guess I'm a 48 year old fanboy.

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:12 pm

ManofTheAtom wrote:
StarBrand wrote:Read the six issue Astro City series. That's probably one of the ten best comic stories I've ever read.
Your calling a professional comic book writer the quality of a Kurt Busiek a hack doesn't make it so.
My calling him may not make it so, but the work he writes does.

Busiek is not stealing by mistake, or stealing because he's out of ideas, he's intentionally taking stories from the 60's and 70's and reusing them to satisfy his nostalgia.

Opinion masquerades as fact in the posts of MOTA once more...

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:14 pm

leonmallett wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:
StarBrand wrote:Read the six issue Astro City series. That's probably one of the ten best comic stories I've ever read.
Your calling a professional comic book writer the quality of a Kurt Busiek a hack doesn't make it so.
My calling him may not make it so, but the work he writes does.

Busiek is not stealing by mistake, or stealing because he's out of ideas, he's intentionally taking stories from the 60's and 70's and reusing them to satisfy his nostalgia.

Opinion masquerades as fact in the posts of MOTA once more...

Read the comics and then read the originals. The plarigism is clear.

He's reusing old plots to tell "new" stories.

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:16 pm

ManofTheAtom wrote:
leonmallett wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:
StarBrand wrote:Read the six issue Astro City series. That's probably one of the ten best comic stories I've ever read.
Your calling a professional comic book writer the quality of a Kurt Busiek a hack doesn't make it so.
My calling him may not make it so, but the work he writes does.

Busiek is not stealing by mistake, or stealing because he's out of ideas, he's intentionally taking stories from the 60's and 70's and reusing them to satisfy his nostalgia.

Opinion masquerades as fact in the posts of MOTA once more...
Read the comics and then read the originals. The plarigism is clear.

He's reusing old plots to tell "new" stories.

Your examples, please?

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:17 pm

leonmallett wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:
leonmallett wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:
StarBrand wrote:Read the six issue Astro City series. That's probably one of the ten best comic stories I've ever read.
Your calling a professional comic book writer the quality of a Kurt Busiek a hack doesn't make it so.
My calling him may not make it so, but the work he writes does.

Busiek is not stealing by mistake, or stealing because he's out of ideas, he's intentionally taking stories from the 60's and 70's and reusing them to satisfy his nostalgia.

Opinion masquerades as fact in the posts of MOTA once more...
Read the comics and then read the originals. The plarigism is clear.

He's reusing old plots to tell "new" stories.
Your examples, please?

Not right now, maybe on Saturday.

I'm working on more summaries for the wiki and I'm falling behind as is. I'm two summaries away from finishing HARD Corps and three more from finishing pre Birthquake Shadowman and X-O Manowar, which I'd really like to finish today.

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:20 pm

ManofTheAtom wrote:
leonmallett wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:
leonmallett wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:
StarBrand wrote:Read the six issue Astro City series. That's probably one of the ten best comic stories I've ever read.
Your calling a professional comic book writer the quality of a Kurt Busiek a hack doesn't make it so.
My calling him may not make it so, but the work he writes does.

Busiek is not stealing by mistake, or stealing because he's out of ideas, he's intentionally taking stories from the 60's and 70's and reusing them to satisfy his nostalgia.

Opinion masquerades as fact in the posts of MOTA once more...
Read the comics and then read the originals. The plarigism is clear.

He's reusing old plots to tell "new" stories.
Your examples, please?
Not right now, maybe on Saturday.

I'm working on more summaries for the wiki and I'm falling behind as is. I'm two summaries away from finishing HARD Corps and three more from finishing pre Birthquake Shadowman and X-O Manowar, which I'd really like to finish today.

Claims without evidence are simply opinion, not fact.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:22 pm

leonmallett wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:
leonmallett wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:
leonmallett wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote: My calling him may not make it so, but the work he writes does.

Busiek is not stealing by mistake, or stealing because he's out of ideas, he's intentionally taking stories from the 60's and 70's and reusing them to satisfy his nostalgia.

Opinion masquerades as fact in the posts of MOTA once more...
Read the comics and then read the originals. The plarigism is clear.

He's reusing old plots to tell "new" stories.
Your examples, please?
Not right now, maybe on Saturday.

I'm working on more summaries for the wiki and I'm falling behind as is. I'm two summaries away from finishing HARD Corps and three more from finishing pre Birthquake Shadowman and X-O Manowar, which I'd really like to finish today.
Claims without evidence are simply opinion, not fact.

I'm not gonna recite chapter and verse for you right now. If you want evidence, stop by the LCS and open the comics, then compare them to the SA and BA originals.

If you think that "Ninjak of Two Worlds" is an original concept, then read Flash #123.

If you think that Kryptonian survivors are an original idea, or that Amalak, the Kryptonian killer hadn't been done before, then read the 70's Superman comics.

If you think that anything Busiek did in the Superman comic was original, then track down some late 70's and early 80's comics, they will very soon dispell that notion.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:26 pm

Were Solar, Harbinger or X-O completely original concepts? Sometimes execution trumps originality of concept, especially in superhero/genre comics.

StarBrand · Post by **StarBrand** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:28 pm

I don't think being obsessed with Busiek is doing what I presumed this thread was for, to discuss new Valiant titles.
At some point common sense has to kick in and allow us to go back to discussing the possibility of new Valiant Comics!
Go Valiant Entertainment! Thanks Dino! Thanks Greg!

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:30 pm

ManofTheAtom wrote:
leonmallett wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:
leonmallett wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:
leonmallett wrote:

Opinion masquerades as fact in the posts of MOTA once more...
Read the comics and then read the originals. The plarigism is clear.

He's reusing old plots to tell "new" stories.
Your examples, please?
Not right now, maybe on Saturday.

I'm working on more summaries for the wiki and I'm falling behind as is. I'm two summaries away from finishing HARD Corps and three more from finishing pre Birthquake Shadowman and X-O Manowar, which I'd really like to finish today.
Claims without evidence are simply opinion, not fact.
I'm not gonna recite chapter and verse for you right now. If you want evidence, stop by the LCS and open the comics, then compare them to the SA and BA originals.

If you think that "Ninjak of Two Worlds" is an original concept, then read Flash #123.

If you think that Kryptonian survivors are an original idea, or that Amalak, the Kryptonian killer hadn't been done before, then read the 70's Superman comics.

If you think that anything Busiek did in the Superman comic was original, then track down some late 70's and early 80's comics, they will very soon dispell that notion.

How much can be 'original' with a character that has 60 plus years of history? Does originality matter? How do you define originality?

Take your point about Kryptonian survivors - because one story has been told with them, does that mean no other such stories should ever be told? That would like suggesting that because ER featured a character with addiction problems, no other character should ever have addiction problems in that same show. To take your point to its logical extreme, after the first Superman story then no more should have been told, because any story showing him using powers he has used before are not original. Originality isn't in the synopsis, the basic premise, the trappings, or even the title, it is in the execution. And as for originality, well the X-O bike was pretty original, was it not, so is originality all that you claim it to be...?

By the way, I love your debate technique - throw vague or specific claims of varying wildness out into the open, and then throw the onus onto others to disprove what you have not proven.