This Board and Alien Books

[syzhang28]

Also good questions. My interest had dipped out for a while at that point too, and I was only occasionally lurking. Maybe things had hit a bit of a wall and people were waiting for something big like a movie to happen?

I think maybe it was really exciting to see Valiant expand exponentially. During the 2015 soft-reboot (Valiant Next), I think it became clear that, while the quality was extremely high, Valiant had kind of hit a wall in terms of sales numbers. Then came 2016's Future of Valiant, which not only drew even less sales, but also saw a slight drop in quality.

For me, a VEI fan since 2014, none of this deterred me, because 90% of their output was *SQUEE* incredible. For OG fans, this might have been disheartening.

Just speculating.

That's interesting. Also speculating here, but they were so good at marketing that I think at times that can come off as over-marketing and that can burn people out. As well as the 'whales' who have to collect everything can get burned out by the volume of variants and whatnot, and they just end up quitting altogether.

Just one personal perspective, but it chimes a little with what you say - despite its generally good quality, the Shamdasani-era forced scarcity of some story content led me to drop the line; I could not support a publisher who did not support readers (especially those beyond North America) to be able to have fair access to all story content.

Add to that a seoming plethora of variant covers (great for some, a risky bubble waiting to burst to others), and a wilful decision to not expand the line beyond 8 or 9 books a month at the VEI peak just overall felt to me that things were not sustainable, but then that is easy to say in hindsight.

What nonsense. There isn't a publisher in comics over the last few decades that might have done more than VEI from only launching one book a month to $10 tpbs to dollar debuts to everything being avaliable digitally around the world imo.

And you've got your facts wrong, while VEI did do 8-9 a lot of months they published up to 14 books a month at times.

[leonmallett]

Also good questions. My interest had dipped out for a while at that point too, and I was only occasionally lurking. Maybe things had hit a bit of a wall and people were waiting for something big like a movie to happen?

I think maybe it was really exciting to see Valiant expand exponentially. During the 2015 soft-reboot (Valiant Next), I think it became clear that, while the quality was extremely high, Valiant had kind of hit a wall in terms of sales numbers. Then came 2016's Future of Valiant, which not only drew even less sales, but also saw a slight drop in quality.

For me, a VEI fan since 2014, none of this deterred me, because 90% of their output was *SQUEE* incredible. For OG fans, this might have been disheartening.

Just speculating.

That's interesting. Also speculating here, but they were so good at marketing that I think at times that can come off as over-marketing and that can burn people out. As well as the 'whales' who have to collect everything can get burned out by the volume of variants and whatnot, and they just end up quitting altogether.

Just one personal perspective, but it chimes a little with what you say - despite its generally good quality, the Shamdasani-era forced scarcity of some story content led me to drop the line; I could not support a publisher who did not support readers (especially those beyond North America) to be able to have fair access to all story content.

Add to that a seoming plethora of variant covers (great for some, a risky bubble waiting to burst to others), and a wilful decision to not expand the line beyond 8 or 9 books a month at the VEI peak just overall felt to me that things were not sustainable, but then that is easy to say in hindsight.

How many series do you think they should have published? 18 was the max for VH 1.

Genuinely I think they should have shot for at least 12-15 on a regular monthly basis, a mix of ongoings, limited series and one-shots/yearbooks.

[leonmallett]

Also good questions. My interest had dipped out for a while at that point too, and I was only occasionally lurking. Maybe things had hit a bit of a wall and people were waiting for something big like a movie to happen?

I think maybe it was really exciting to see Valiant expand exponentially. During the 2015 soft-reboot (Valiant Next), I think it became clear that, while the quality was extremely high, Valiant had kind of hit a wall in terms of sales numbers. Then came 2016's Future of Valiant, which not only drew even less sales, but also saw a slight drop in quality.

For me, a VEI fan since 2014, none of this deterred me, because 90% of their output was *SQUEE* incredible. For OG fans, this might have been disheartening.

Just speculating.

That's interesting. Also speculating here, but they were so good at marketing that I think at times that can come off as over-marketing and that can burn people out. As well as the 'whales' who have to collect everything can get burned out by the volume of variants and whatnot, and they just end up quitting altogether.

Just one personal perspective, but it chimes a little with what you say - despite its generally good quality, the Shamdasani-era forced scarcity of some story content led me to drop the line; I could not support a publisher who did not support readers (especially those beyond North America) to be able to have fair access to all story content.

Add to that a seoming plethora of variant covers (great for some, a risky bubble waiting to burst to others), and a wilful decision to not expand the line beyond 8 or 9 books a month at the VEI peak just overall felt to me that things were not sustainable, but then that is easy to say in hindsight.

What nonsense. There isn't a publisher in comics over the last few decades that might have done more than VEI from only launching one book a month to $10 tpbs to dollar debuts to everything being avaliable digitally around the world imo.

And you've got your facts wrong, while VEI did do 8-9 a lot of months they published up to 14 books a month at times.

How many consecutive months did they publish 14 books?

[ManofTheAtom]

Also good questions. My interest had dipped out for a while at that point too, and I was only occasionally lurking. Maybe things had hit a bit of a wall and people were waiting for something big like a movie to happen?

I think maybe it was really exciting to see Valiant expand exponentially. During the 2015 soft-reboot (Valiant Next), I think it became clear that, while the quality was extremely high, Valiant had kind of hit a wall in terms of sales numbers. Then came 2016's Future of Valiant, which not only drew even less sales, but also saw a slight drop in quality.

For me, a VEI fan since 2014, none of this deterred me, because 90% of their output was *SQUEE* incredible. For OG fans, this might have been disheartening.

Just speculating.

That's interesting. Also speculating here, but they were so good at marketing that I think at times that can come off as over-marketing and that can burn people out. As well as the 'whales' who have to collect everything can get burned out by the volume of variants and whatnot, and they just end up quitting altogether.

Just one personal perspective, but it chimes a little with what you say - despite its generally good quality, the Shamdasani-era forced scarcity of some story content led me to drop the line; I could not support a publisher who did not support readers (especially those beyond North America) to be able to have fair access to all story content.

Add to that a seoming plethora of variant covers (great for some, a risky bubble waiting to burst to others), and a wilful decision to not expand the line beyond 8 or 9 books a month at the VEI peak just overall felt to me that things were not sustainable, but then that is easy to say in hindsight.

How many series do you think they should have published? 18 was the max for VH 1.

Genuinely I think they should have shot for at least 12-15 on a regular monthly basis, a mix of ongoings, limited series and one-shots/yearbooks.

Nice. That could have worked, yeah.

It's ironic to know that their original intent was to start with minis that then became ongoings during production. They should have stuck with that, particularly with series like Generation Zero and the like. Wait until they became a success before making them ongoing.

[ManofTheAtom]

double post.

[Ryan]

I think maybe it was really exciting to see Valiant expand exponentially. During the 2015 soft-reboot (Valiant Next), I think it became clear that, while the quality was extremely high, Valiant had kind of hit a wall in terms of sales numbers. Then came 2016's Future of Valiant, which not only drew even less sales, but also saw a slight drop in quality.

For me, a VEI fan since 2014, none of this deterred me, because 90% of their output was *SQUEE* incredible. For OG fans, this might have been disheartening.

Just speculating.

That's interesting. Also speculating here, but they were so good at marketing that I think at times that can come off as over-marketing and that can burn people out. As well as the 'whales' who have to collect everything can get burned out by the volume of variants and whatnot, and they just end up quitting altogether.

Just one personal perspective, but it chimes a little with what you say - despite its generally good quality, the Shamdasani-era forced scarcity of some story content led me to drop the line; I could not support a publisher who did not support readers (especially those beyond North America) to be able to have fair access to all story content.

Add to that a seoming plethora of variant covers (great for some, a risky bubble waiting to burst to others), and a wilful decision to not expand the line beyond 8 or 9 books a month at the VEI peak just overall felt to me that things were not sustainable, but then that is easy to say in hindsight.

How many series do you think they should have published? 18 was the max for VH 1.

Genuinely I think they should have shot for at least 12-15 on a regular monthly basis, a mix of ongoings, limited series and one-shots/yearbooks.

Nice. That could have worked, yeah.

It's ironic to know that their original intent was to start with minis that then became ongoings during production. They should have stuck with that, particularly with series like Generation Zero and the like. Wait until they became a success before making them ongoing.

I wonder if part of the reason they never did that many titles is because the business model was never to survive on JUST comics. The whole model was based on the comics leading into movies, tv, etc. so it was never about getting to a certain number of monthlies.

That's not a criticism, I'm not sure if there is much of a business model for a comics-only business these days.

[ManofTheAtom]

That's interesting. Also speculating here, but they were so good at marketing that I think at times that can come off as over-marketing and that can burn people out. As well as the 'whales' who have to collect everything can get burned out by the volume of variants and whatnot, and they just end up quitting altogether.

Just one personal perspective, but it chimes a little with what you say - despite its generally good quality, the Shamdasani-era forced scarcity of some story content led me to drop the line; I could not support a publisher who did not support readers (especially those beyond North America) to be able to have fair access to all story content.

Add to that a seoming plethora of variant covers (great for some, a risky bubble waiting to burst to others), and a wilful decision to not expand the line beyond 8 or 9 books a month at the VEI peak just overall felt to me that things were not sustainable, but then that is easy to say in hindsight.

How many series do you think they should have published? 18 was the max for VH 1.

Genuinely I think they should have shot for at least 12-15 on a regular monthly basis, a mix of ongoings, limited series and one-shots/yearbooks.

Nice. That could have worked, yeah.

It's ironic to know that their original intent was to start with minis that then became ongoings during production. They should have stuck with that, particularly with series like Generation Zero and the like. Wait until they became a success before making them ongoing.

I wonder if part of the reason they never did that many titles is because the business model was never to survive on JUST comics. The whole model was based on the comics leading into movies, tv, etc. so it was never about getting to a certain number of monthlies.

That's not a criticism, I'm not sure if there is much of a business model for a comics-only business these days.

Unsure. Dinesh always touted VEI as being about comics first. If they had really seen it as a way to make movies and TV they probably would have pursued that more aggressively and we'd have seen more adaptations rather than just the two.

[Ryan]

Just one personal perspective, but it chimes a little with what you say - despite its generally good quality, the Shamdasani-era forced scarcity of some story content led me to drop the line; I could not support a publisher who did not support readers (especially those beyond North America) to be able to have fair access to all story content.

Add to that a seoming plethora of variant covers (great for some, a risky bubble waiting to burst to others), and a wilful decision to not expand the line beyond 8 or 9 books a month at the VEI peak just overall felt to me that things were not sustainable, but then that is easy to say in hindsight.

How many series do you think they should have published? 18 was the max for VH 1.

Genuinely I think they should have shot for at least 12-15 on a regular monthly basis, a mix of ongoings, limited series and one-shots/yearbooks.

Nice. That could have worked, yeah.

It's ironic to know that their original intent was to start with minis that then became ongoings during production. They should have stuck with that, particularly with series like Generation Zero and the like. Wait until they became a success before making them ongoing.

I wonder if part of the reason they never did that many titles is because the business model was never to survive on JUST comics. The whole model was based on the comics leading into movies, tv, etc. so it was never about getting to a certain number of monthlies.

That's not a criticism, I'm not sure if there is much of a business model for a comics-only business these days.

Unsure. Dinesh always touted VEI as being about comics first. If they had really seen it as a way to make movies and TV they probably would have pursued that more aggressively and we'd have seen more adaptations rather than just the two.

That's true. Comics first but I have to believe the only way their long-term plan would be profitable is with multimedia. Pure speculation on my part. I think that has to do with the million+ that had to be invested to get the characters and the years of development and legalities that followed. It would have been a long time for a comics-only business plan to become profitable in that case I'm thinking.

[ManofTheAtom]

How many series do you think they should have published? 18 was the max for VH 1.

Genuinely I think they should have shot for at least 12-15 on a regular monthly basis, a mix of ongoings, limited series and one-shots/yearbooks.

Nice. That could have worked, yeah.

It's ironic to know that their original intent was to start with minis that then became ongoings during production. They should have stuck with that, particularly with series like Generation Zero and the like. Wait until they became a success before making them ongoing.

I wonder if part of the reason they never did that many titles is because the business model was never to survive on JUST comics. The whole model was based on the comics leading into movies, tv, etc. so it was never about getting to a certain number of monthlies.

That's not a criticism, I'm not sure if there is much of a business model for a comics-only business these days.

Unsure. Dinesh always touted VEI as being about comics first. If they had really seen it as a way to make movies and TV they probably would have pursued that more aggressively and we'd have seen more adaptations rather than just the two.

That's true. Comics first but I have to believe the only way their long-term plan would be profitable is with multimedia. Pure speculation on my part. I think that has to do with the million+ that had to be invested to get the characters and the years of development and legalities that followed. It would have been a long time for a comics-only business plan to become profitable in that case I'm thinking.

True.

[syzhang28]

Dinesh said in many interviews that Fred was incorrect about the 8 titles and that the number of titles was based on how many books time he and the creators and editors could make at a given time that maintained the quality. Sounds like what Feige was doing well for years with 2 MCU movies a year. They increased after Bob Iger left and the quality has taken a nose dive...

[ManofTheAtom]

Dinesh said in many interviews that Fred was incorrect about the 8 titles and that the number of titles was based on how many books time he and the creators and editors could make at a given time that maintained the quality. Sounds like what Feige was doing well for years with 2 MCU movies a year. They increased after Bob Iger left and the quality has taken a nose dive...

Yep. Didn't help that they disbanded their committee of comic book writers that reviewed the scrips.

[syzhang28]

Dinesh said in many interviews that Fred was incorrect about the 8 titles and that the number of titles was based on how many books time he and the creators and editors could make at a given time that maintained the quality. Sounds like what Feige was doing well for years with 2 MCU movies a year. They increased after Bob Iger left and the quality has taken a nose dive...

Yep. Didn't help that they disbanded their committee of comic book writers that reviewed the scrips.

They did that loooong before the movies started sucking. I don't think anyone thinks the comic book committee was really being listened to ever.

[ManofTheAtom]

Dinesh said in many interviews that Fred was incorrect about the 8 titles and that the number of titles was based on how many books time he and the creators and editors could make at a given time that maintained the quality. Sounds like what Feige was doing well for years with 2 MCU movies a year. They increased after Bob Iger left and the quality has taken a nose dive...

Yep. Didn't help that they disbanded their committee of comic book writers that reviewed the scrips.

They did that loooong before the movies started sucking. I don't think anyone thinks the comic book committee was really being listened to ever.

For Phase 1 they must have been. That was definitely their best phase. It was during Phase 2, after Winter Soldier, that everything went to hell.

[syzhang28]

Dinesh said in many interviews that Fred was incorrect about the 8 titles and that the number of titles was based on how many books time he and the creators and editors could make at a given time that maintained the quality. Sounds like what Feige was doing well for years with 2 MCU movies a year. They increased after Bob Iger left and the quality has taken a nose dive...

Yep. Didn't help that they disbanded their committee of comic book writers that reviewed the scrips.

They did that loooong before the movies started sucking. I don't think anyone thinks the comic book committee was really being listened to ever.

For Phase 1 they must have been. That was definitely their best phase. It was during Phase 2, after Winter Soldier, that everything went to hell.

Insanity. Phase 3 is the best phase. Both critically and commercially. The numbers for both are clear. It's post Endgame that the reviews and box office are dropping

[ManofTheAtom]

Dinesh said in many interviews that Fred was incorrect about the 8 titles and that the number of titles was based on how many books time he and the creators and editors could make at a given time that maintained the quality. Sounds like what Feige was doing well for years with 2 MCU movies a year. They increased after Bob Iger left and the quality has taken a nose dive...

Yep. Didn't help that they disbanded their committee of comic book writers that reviewed the scrips.

They did that loooong before the movies started sucking. I don't think anyone thinks the comic book committee was really being listened to ever.

For Phase 1 they must have been. That was definitely their best phase. It was during Phase 2, after Winter Soldier, that everything went to hell.

Insanity. Phase 3 is the best phase. Both critically and commercially. The numbers for both are clear. It's post Endgame that the reviews and box office are dropping

That's relative to one's enjoyment.

After Phase 1, the Marvel Cinematic Universe became the Marvel Comedic Universe and the quality of their movies took a downward turn.

Just because they were more commercial it did not mean they were good. Many respected directors have criticized their quality.

[lorddunlow]

I agree. Phase 1 was the best. It was very solid though up to Endgame. They crapped the bed with that movie (impressive considering their source material - Hickman's Infinity crossover), and wrote themselves into a hole. The blip was a mistake that ruined the MCU. They should have undone it. Their adherence to making it permanent is stupid. It's been downhill since.

Sent from my Pixel Fold using Tapatalk

[ManofTheAtom]

I agree. Phase 1 was the best. It was very solid though up to Endgame. They crapped the bed with that movie (impressive considering their source material - Hickman's Infinity crossover), and wrote themselves into a hole. The blip was a mistake that ruined the MCU. They should have undone it. Their adherence to making it permanent is stupid. It's been downhill since.

Sent from my Pixel Fold using Tapatalk

Indeed. They didn't do time travel right. First, they said that the past can't be changed because it creates new timelines, then they end with Steve going back to the '40s and appearing in the present. By their own rules, he should have created an alternate timeline in which he went back to the '40s, not actually gone back to the past of the MCU.

[ManofTheAtom]

Making VALIANT "more commercial" with Birthquake and VH 2 is what ruined VALIANT.

Making things more commercial does not necessarily mean they become good. It merely means they become an easier sell.

Ultimately, we're lucky VALIANT failed at becoming more commercial and more "mainstream" because whatever would have succeeded at making it that would have likely ruined what made it special in the first place.

People should want to buy/read VALIANT for what it is, not for what it can be turned into to make it more attractive to them.

The more commercial thing VH 2 ever did was Quantum & Woody and that damn goat.

Imagine if Acclaim had decided to make ALL VALIANT comics like that in terms of tone and such (i.e. more comedic, which is what the MCU became) in order to make it more commercial and more mainstream.

"Quantum & Woody did a funny body swap story in which the two guys hold each other's dicks in the bathroom. We should do that with Aric and Gilad!"

Would you rather mourn VALIANT because it changed ownership from VEI to DMG but we still have new comic books that continue the VEI Universe, or mourn it because it became Marvel Lite and now Aric makes stupid Tony Stark-esque comedic puns in order to sell more at the expense of its own identity, which is what appealed to us in the first place?

The comedic formula Feige uses is to the Marvel Cinematic Universe what gimmick covers were to VALIANT and VALIANT Entertainment.

One was done to attract film audiences, the other was done to attract comic book collectors. Both do a disservice to the characters.

[Ryan]

Making VALIANT "more commercial" with Birthquake and VH 2 is what ruined VALIANT.

Making things more commercial does not necessarily mean they become good. It merely means they become an easier sell.

Ultimately, we're lucky VALIANT failed at becoming more commercial and more "mainstream" because whatever would have succeeded at making it that would have likely ruined what made it special in the first place.

People should want to buy/read VALIANT for what it is, not for what it can be turned into to make it more attractive to them.

The more commercial thing VH 2 ever did was Quantum & Woody and that damn goat.

Imagine if Acclaim had decided to make ALL VALIANT comics like that in terms of tone and such (i.e. more comedic, which is what the MCU became) in order to make it more commercial and more mainstream.

"Quantum & Woody did a funny body swap story in which the two guys hold each other's dicks in the bathroom. We should do that with Aric and Gilad!"

Would you rather mourn VALIANT because it changed ownership from VEI to DMG but we still have new comic books that continue the VEI Universe, or mourn it because it became Marvel Lite and now Aric makes stupid Tony Stark-esque comedic puns in order to sell more at the expense of its own identity, which is what appealed to us in the first place?

The comedic formula Feige uses is to the Marvel Cinematic Universe what gimmick covers were to VALIANT and VALIANT Entertainment.

One was done to attract film audiences, the other was done to attract comic book collectors. Both do a disservice to the characters.

100%

I'll add that when you say 'more commercial', to me that means when VALIANT stopped operating from a unique creative vision and started to do whatever they thought would sell more books.

Which meant chasing Image, chasing Marvel, chasing whatever the next hot comics fad (or creator) was. That's not what made VALIANT popular in the first place, and it's never worked for VALIANT since.

[ManofTheAtom]

Making VALIANT "more commercial" with Birthquake and VH 2 is what ruined VALIANT.

Making things more commercial does not necessarily mean they become good. It merely means they become an easier sell.

Ultimately, we're lucky VALIANT failed at becoming more commercial and more "mainstream" because whatever would have succeeded at making it that would have likely ruined what made it special in the first place.

People should want to buy/read VALIANT for what it is, not for what it can be turned into to make it more attractive to them.

The more commercial thing VH 2 ever did was Quantum & Woody and that damn goat.

Imagine if Acclaim had decided to make ALL VALIANT comics like that in terms of tone and such (i.e. more comedic, which is what the MCU became) in order to make it more commercial and more mainstream.

"Quantum & Woody did a funny body swap story in which the two guys hold each other's dicks in the bathroom. We should do that with Aric and Gilad!"

Would you rather mourn VALIANT because it changed ownership from VEI to DMG but we still have new comic books that continue the VEI Universe, or mourn it because it became Marvel Lite and now Aric makes stupid Tony Stark-esque comedic puns in order to sell more at the expense of its own identity, which is what appealed to us in the first place?

The comedic formula Feige uses is to the Marvel Cinematic Universe what gimmick covers were to VALIANT and VALIANT Entertainment.

One was done to attract film audiences, the other was done to attract comic book collectors. Both do a disservice to the characters.

100%

I'll add that when you say 'more commercial', to me that means when VALIANT stopped operating from a unique creative vision and started to do whatever they thought would sell more books.

Which meant chasing Image, chasing Marvel, chasing whatever the next hot comics fad (or creator) was. That's not what made VALIANT popular in the first place, and it's never worked for VALIANT since.

Exactly.

The adage is "see a need, fill it". VALIANT filled a need that DC and Marvel were not addressing.

Copying them is the wrong approach. Always has been.

[Ryan]

Making VALIANT "more commercial" with Birthquake and VH 2 is what ruined VALIANT.

Making things more commercial does not necessarily mean they become good. It merely means they become an easier sell.

Ultimately, we're lucky VALIANT failed at becoming more commercial and more "mainstream" because whatever would have succeeded at making it that would have likely ruined what made it special in the first place.

People should want to buy/read VALIANT for what it is, not for what it can be turned into to make it more attractive to them.

The more commercial thing VH 2 ever did was Quantum & Woody and that damn goat.

Imagine if Acclaim had decided to make ALL VALIANT comics like that in terms of tone and such (i.e. more comedic, which is what the MCU became) in order to make it more commercial and more mainstream.

"Quantum & Woody did a funny body swap story in which the two guys hold each other's dicks in the bathroom. We should do that with Aric and Gilad!"

Would you rather mourn VALIANT because it changed ownership from VEI to DMG but we still have new comic books that continue the VEI Universe, or mourn it because it became Marvel Lite and now Aric makes stupid Tony Stark-esque comedic puns in order to sell more at the expense of its own identity, which is what appealed to us in the first place?

The comedic formula Feige uses is to the Marvel Cinematic Universe what gimmick covers were to VALIANT and VALIANT Entertainment.

One was done to attract film audiences, the other was done to attract comic book collectors. Both do a disservice to the characters.

100%

I'll add that when you say 'more commercial', to me that means when VALIANT stopped operating from a unique creative vision and started to do whatever they thought would sell more books.

Which meant chasing Image, chasing Marvel, chasing whatever the next hot comics fad (or creator) was. That's not what made VALIANT popular in the first place, and it's never worked for VALIANT since.

Exactly.

The adage is "see a need, fill it". VALIANT filled a need that DC and Marvel were not addressing.

Copying them is the wrong approach. Always has been.

Well said.

[ManofTheAtom]

Making VALIANT "more commercial" with Birthquake and VH 2 is what ruined VALIANT.

Making things more commercial does not necessarily mean they become good. It merely means they become an easier sell.

Ultimately, we're lucky VALIANT failed at becoming more commercial and more "mainstream" because whatever would have succeeded at making it that would have likely ruined what made it special in the first place.

People should want to buy/read VALIANT for what it is, not for what it can be turned into to make it more attractive to them.

The more commercial thing VH 2 ever did was Quantum & Woody and that damn goat.

Imagine if Acclaim had decided to make ALL VALIANT comics like that in terms of tone and such (i.e. more comedic, which is what the MCU became) in order to make it more commercial and more mainstream.

"Quantum & Woody did a funny body swap story in which the two guys hold each other's dicks in the bathroom. We should do that with Aric and Gilad!"

Would you rather mourn VALIANT because it changed ownership from VEI to DMG but we still have new comic books that continue the VEI Universe, or mourn it because it became Marvel Lite and now Aric makes stupid Tony Stark-esque comedic puns in order to sell more at the expense of its own identity, which is what appealed to us in the first place?

The comedic formula Feige uses is to the Marvel Cinematic Universe what gimmick covers were to VALIANT and VALIANT Entertainment.

One was done to attract film audiences, the other was done to attract comic book collectors. Both do a disservice to the characters.

100%

I'll add that when you say 'more commercial', to me that means when VALIANT stopped operating from a unique creative vision and started to do whatever they thought would sell more books.

Which meant chasing Image, chasing Marvel, chasing whatever the next hot comics fad (or creator) was. That's not what made VALIANT popular in the first place, and it's never worked for VALIANT since.

Exactly.

The adage is "see a need, fill it". VALIANT filled a need that DC and Marvel were not addressing.

Copying them is the wrong approach. Always has been.

Well said.

Thanks.

[The Harbinger]

On the topic of board identity, I was browsing here in 2005, joined in 2007, fading in and out this whole time. A few things have impacted discussion I think.

One is Reddit wasn't the monster it was in 2007, I likely had not had even heard of it at that point. I don't think you've had any new members under 30 join this board because of the greying niche of comics, the shrinking niche of non big 2 content, and the fact that unique message boards like this are really a relic of the previous decades, which is a shame. You just make a subreddit now and whoever was first gets to control the content as the mod.

I can look at threads from 2007, how many of us passed away? I'm seeing Daniel Jackson, ZWH, Cinlach, depluto, Slym, etc. Not saying all of those people are dead, but I'd bet there's a solid chunk that would be your active posters and nobody backfills their content. The thing about message boards is there is a lot of people that don't get to sign out or have family announce their passing. My family isn't aware I post here since I'm not involved enough on the convention circuit to where something here involves my personal life.

I was most active before the VEI launch. For the most part, VEI was great. I think there was a lot of what ifs that could be discussed and how the sentiment was "there was so much more" to see while we talked about collecting. There's an innocent excitement where everyone is on the same page where we're here to enjoy the content that exists. Take a look at those VEI vs VIP threads when it's a united front.

VEI happened, you got 5 years of new content. In that time, if you weren't buying all the new stuff, you were suddenly out of the loop on the new stuff as new members entered, so there's a bit of an identity change, which can be a good thing if it's successful and it's not just political Twitter eggs running to the next thing. Once you got the political involvement from untalented people like Antos in Valiant hiring only other people like her, you had new fans that would refuse to see the warts because of political alignment with the author regardless of the content (see Psi-Lords defenders), and both parties would drive themselves off after enough arguments.

Then Valiant fails again because it was terrible and the stories were just attempts at Netflix pitches like every comics property after 2015.

Jon Taffer on Bar Rescue believes you can never make something a success if it's failed once before, let alone twice, so he always insists on changing the restaurant names. Now that you've got a brand that's failed three times, it's hard to get excited every day for it, especially if you have other life distractions.

[ManofTheAtom]

On the topic of board identity, I was browsing here in 2005, joined in 2007, fading in and out this whole time. A few things have impacted discussion I think.

One is Reddit wasn't the monster it was in 2007, I likely had not had even heard of it at that point. I don't think you've had any new members under 30 join this board because of the greying niche of comics, the shrinking niche of non big 2 content, and the fact that unique message boards like this are really a relic of the previous decades, which is a shame. You just make a subreddit now and whoever was first gets to control the content as the mod.

I can look at threads from 2007, how many of us passed away? I'm seeing Daniel Jackson, ZWH, Cinlach, depluto, Slym, etc. Not saying all of those people are dead, but I'd bet there's a solid chunk that would be your active posters and nobody backfills their content. The thing about message boards is there is a lot of people that don't get to sign out or have family announce their passing. My family isn't aware I post here since I'm not involved enough on the convention circuit to where something here involves my personal life.

I was most active before the VEI launch. For the most part, VEI was great. I think there was a lot of what ifs that could be discussed and how the sentiment was "there was so much more" to see while we talked about collecting. There's an innocent excitement where everyone is on the same page where we're here to enjoy the content that exists. Take a look at those VEI vs VIP threads when it's a united front.

VEI happened, you got 5 years of new content. In that time, if you weren't buying all the new stuff, you were suddenly out of the loop on the new stuff as new members entered, so there's a bit of an identity change, which can be a good thing if it's successful and it's not just political Twitter eggs running to the next thing. Once you got the political involvement from untalented people like Antos in Valiant hiring only other people like her, you had new fans that would refuse to see the warts because of political alignment with the author regardless of the content (see Psi-Lords defenders), and both parties would drive themselves off after enough arguments.

Then Valiant fails again because it was terrible and the stories were just attempts at Netflix pitches like every comics property after 2015.

Jon Taffer on Bar Rescue believes you can never make something a success if it's failed once before, let alone twice, so he always insists on changing the restaurant names. Now that you've got a brand that's failed three times, it's hard to get excited every day for it, especially if you have other life distractions.

Somber, and probably not wrong.

[syzhang28]

Dinesh said in many interviews that Fred was incorrect about the 8 titles and that the number of titles was based on how many books time he and the creators and editors could make at a given time that maintained the quality. Sounds like what Feige was doing well for years with 2 MCU movies a year. They increased after Bob Iger left and the quality has taken a nose dive...

Yep. Didn't help that they disbanded their committee of comic book writers that reviewed the scrips.

They did that loooong before the movies started sucking. I don't think anyone thinks the comic book committee was really being listened to ever.

For Phase 1 they must have been. That was definitely their best phase. It was during Phase 2, after Winter Soldier, that everything went to hell.

Insanity. Phase 3 is the best phase. Both critically and commercially. The numbers for both are clear. It's post Endgame that the reviews and box office are dropping

That's relative to one's enjoyment.

After Phase 1, the Marvel Cinematic Universe became the Marvel Comedic Universe and the quality of their movies took a downward turn.

Just because they were more commercial it did not mean they were good. Many respected directors have criticized their quality.

Numbers don't lie. Reviews, scores, audience numbers, awards all went way up. Some of the accepted best films of all time came in phases 2 and 3. Much like with Valiant, your personal taste seems to run against popular opinion.

One, old, out of touch and probably jealous director criticized them and was roundly chastised for it.