Spider Aliens

[robb77]

16 is the cheepest i have sen any of them and i bought 3 of each but, i can see collectors on limited budgets not buying it due to the fact thats like 8 issues of something else in cost for 1 issue of new material, i think new comics will sell fantasticly but the HC will sell ok and have done well but, nothing like new comics will do.

if the new series does well

[superman-prime]

Just past readers will push a new valiant series in to the 60s in sales and way higher if it is a great story which it will be. The only thing will be where the pick up the new universe from, a reboot, post unity or at the end of the originals ( i doubt the last) I'm sure it will be well thought out to get the most from a new start.

[cjv]

I agree with mota on this one

I agree as well. But I doubt the hardcovers are attracting any new fans. Most people aren't going even going to know to look for a hardcover at a discounted price (like Amazon or DCBS). And if they go to a comic book store, and see it for $25, IMO they won't shell that much out for a comic they know nothing about.

Chris

[cjv]

well i got got the hc at cost but its a waste of time thats why members with proper collections are selling theres off now like im doing

What's this "everyone is selling their collection". I am sure some people are, but you could ALWAYS find some people selling their collection. There doesn't seem to be any sudden increase of "entire collections" for sale, IMO. What I think we ARE seeing a lot of is people testing the market, but selling some duplicates they might have.

Out of curiosity, you seem to be complaining a lot about people selling their collections, then you state you are doing it. If it is such a problem, why are you doing it?

Chris

[cjv]

Let's get the thread back on topic about the spider alien race, and potential for some sort of "resistance" movement against the earth invasion.

As someone pointed out, they must have some sort of scientists or knowledge oriented group - how could they develop space travel otherwise? That makes me think that there may be whole other types or castes of spider aliens on their homeworld that we know nothing about.

You know, I wonder if everything they do is organic in nature - based on a sort of symbiosis with plant life? Maybe even their spaceships and such?

Given the spider aliens nature that we have seen, my guess is their style of government (assuming there is only one) is either a dictatorship type rule, where the persion who kills the leader then is in charge (we saw this a few times in the comics). Or a similar type of rule, but based on a multiple city/state ideal, with a ruling council (where the "ruler' of each city/state sits on the coucil, but could be replaced within their own city/state). I doubt it is an election system.

It may also be something of a theocracy (based on worshiping plants) - we saw the high regard for the high elders that they have. There might be an elite ruling caste of priest-like figures.

Chris

[ManofTheAtom]

Scientists were hardly unseen. We saw a few of them in the Rise of Lydia story, and I'm sure we saw others in the HARD Corps two parter.

They looked like average soldiers but they were wearing lab coats.

[cjv]

Scientists were hardly unseen. We saw a few of them in the Rise of Lydia story, and I'm sure we saw others in the HARD Corps two parter.

They looked like average soldiers but they were wearing lab coats.

I forgot about those. So I wonder if "scientists" are simply another subclass of "workers". Still makes me wonder about the aliens who actually come up with the ideas, innovations, theories, etc.

Chris

[ManofTheAtom]

Scientists were hardly unseen. We saw a few of them in the Rise of Lydia story, and I'm sure we saw others in the HARD Corps two parter.

They looked like average soldiers but they were wearing lab coats.

I forgot about those. So I wonder if "scientists" are simply another subclass of "workers". Still makes me wonder about the aliens who actually come up with the ideas, innovations, theories, etc.

Chris

I like your theocracy idea, it makes a lot of sense. That makes Spider Alien culture not that different from the Dark Ages, when the church made all the decisions.

That would mean that the ones that come up with the ideas are the First Among Equals.

As for how their technology comes to be, it may very well be techno-organic.

Consider that their main goal in the initial arc was to retrieve the manowar armor so they could grow it into a space ship.

Manowar armors start out as eggs that are bonded to aliens to become the armor. Since the armor can then be changed into a space ship (!) then it stands to reason to theorize that that is how all their technology works. It all comes from eggs that are then bonded to volunteers, then the result (be it an armor or something else) is shaped into whatever they need, be it a tank or a space ship.

[xodacia81]

I've always thought the Spider Aliens were close to a theocracy. The idea of organic technology makes perfect sense, given the XO itself and the few glimpses of the growth of an XO Manowar. However, the reason I would wager Theocracy is the most logical answer is this-the idea of sacrifice.

A living creature must bond in order to create a weapon, tool, ship ect, right? Why would they do this? Is it willingness? Is it forced? I think it is willing. I believe they see it as a duty, an honor and a privelege. It could be similiar to becoming a priest or, maybe, pardong the term, a martyr(although without some of our conotations) If you read the Spider XO Warrior's dialogue in Solar # 7 and then listen to what is being said by the Spider Aliens in the Solar/XO crossover following Unity, along with what we saw in Rise Of Lydia, it makes sense. This is something that should be explore more, an element that is in perfect keeping with what has been established. It is indeed a logical progression/revelation for the story of the Spiders. Do not forget that in XO # 0 when we see the armor being made, there is a deep ritual and almost a sense of reverance for the event. This was in keeping with the story in the crossover and with the explinations in Solar 7.

Yep, I'm down with this take.

[ManofTheAtom]

I've always thought the Spider Aliens were close to a theocracy. The idea of organic technology makes perfect sense, given the XO itself and the few glimpses of the growth of an XO Manowar. However, the reason I would wager Theocracy is the most logical answer is this-the idea of sacrifice.

A living creature must bond in order to create a weapon, tool, ship ect, right? Why would they do this? Is it willingness? Is it forced? I think it is willing. I believe they see it as a duty, an honor and a privelege. If you read the Spider XO Warrior's dialogue in Solar # 7 and then listen to what is being said by the Spider Aliens in the Solar/XO crossover following Unity, along with what we saw in Rise Of Lydia, it makes sense. This is something that should be explore more, an element that is in perfect keeping with what has been established. It is indeed a logical progression/revelation for the story of the Spiders. Do not forget that in XO # 0 when we see the armor being made, there is a deep ritual and almost a sense of reverance for the event. This was in keeping with the story in the crossover and with the explinations in Solar 7.

Yep, I'm down with this take.

[cjv]

BTW, guys in "lab coats" could simply be technicians or something, not necessarilly the ones who are in charge of the "science".

Chris

[ManofTheAtom]

BTW, guys in "lab coats" could simply be technicians or something, not necessarilly the ones who are in charge of the "science".

Chris

In the HARD Corps two parter it seemed like the hybrid was in charge, while in the Rise of Lydia it was the First.

[cjv]

Scientists were hardly unseen. We saw a few of them in the Rise of Lydia story, and I'm sure we saw others in the HARD Corps two parter.

They looked like average soldiers but they were wearing lab coats.

I forgot about those. So I wonder if "scientists" are simply another subclass of "workers". Still makes me wonder about the aliens who actually come up with the ideas, innovations, theories, etc.

Chris

I like your theocracy idea, it makes a lot of sense. That makes Spider Alien culture not that different from the Dark Ages, when the church made all the decisions.

That would mean that the ones that come up with the ideas are the First Among Equals.

That's assuming he is the one "in charge" everywhere. He could just be the one in charge that we have seen, or there could even be more than one "first among equals". Maybe he is just the invasion commander or something. Or maybe there are a number of "city states" on the spider alien homeworld, and only one of them was launching this invasion!


In terms of technoorganic equipment, that could be - but it doesn't look like their guns are, and even if it is, they still need a knowledge of science, chemistry, the universe (etc) in order to navigate through space!

Chris

[Sven]

Spider Alien culture and society is very complex.

Perhaps too complex for your ssimple human minds to understand. . .

[superman-prime]

chill Sven chill, if ya are nice i'll send my friends cocker spanial to your ship for a snack

[Sven]

chill Sven chill, if ya are nice i'll send my friends cocker spanial to your ship for a snack

[ManofTheAtom]

Scientists were hardly unseen. We saw a few of them in the Rise of Lydia story, and I'm sure we saw others in the HARD Corps two parter.

They looked like average soldiers but they were wearing lab coats.

I forgot about those. So I wonder if "scientists" are simply another subclass of "workers". Still makes me wonder about the aliens who actually come up with the ideas, innovations, theories, etc.

Chris

I like your theocracy idea, it makes a lot of sense. That makes Spider Alien culture not that different from the Dark Ages, when the church made all the decisions.

That would mean that the ones that come up with the ideas are the First Among Equals.

That's assuming he is the one "in charge" everywhere. He could just be the one in charge that we have seen, or there could even be more than one "first among equals". Maybe he is just the invasion commander or something. Or maybe there are a number of "city states" on the spider alien homeworld, and only one of them was launching this invasion!


In terms of technoorganic equipment, that could be - but it doesn't look like their guns are, and even if it is, they still need a knowledge of science, chemistry, the universe (etc) in order to navigate through space!

Chris

And the First might very well be the ones that hold all that knowledge.

Of course, don't forget that the alien hives come from queens, like regular spiders on Earth. We have seen that in comics like Eternal Warriors.

Queens are the highest post of power, with the Fist acting like their viziers maybe? (think Jabba and Bib Fortuna. Jabba = Queen, Bib= First).

[xodacia81]

Scientists were hardly unseen. We saw a few of them in the Rise of Lydia story, and I'm sure we saw others in the HARD Corps two parter.

They looked like average soldiers but they were wearing lab coats.

I forgot about those. So I wonder if "scientists" are simply another subclass of "workers". Still makes me wonder about the aliens who actually come up with the ideas, innovations, theories, etc.

Chris

I like your theocracy idea, it makes a lot of sense. That makes Spider Alien culture not that different from the Dark Ages, when the church made all the decisions.

That would mean that the ones that come up with the ideas are the First Among Equals.

That's assuming he is the one "in charge" everywhere. He could just be the one in charge that we have seen, or there could even be more than one "first among equals". Maybe he is just the invasion commander or something. Or maybe there are a number of "city states" on the spider alien homeworld, and only one of them was launching this invasion!


In terms of technoorganic equipment, that could be - but it doesn't look like their guns are, and even if it is, they still need a knowledge of science, chemistry, the universe (etc) in order to navigate through space!

Chris

And the First might very well be the ones that hold all that knowledge.

Of course, don't forget that the alien hives come from queens, like regular spiders on Earth. We have seen that in comics like Eternal Warriors.

Queens are the highest post of power, with the Fist acting like their viziers maybe? (think Jabba and Bib Fortuna. Jabba = Queen, Bib= First).

A Star Wars analogy? On a comic book board? Will wonders never cease...

[cjv]

Scientists were hardly unseen. We saw a few of them in the Rise of Lydia story, and I'm sure we saw others in the HARD Corps two parter.

They looked like average soldiers but they were wearing lab coats.

I forgot about those. So I wonder if "scientists" are simply another subclass of "workers". Still makes me wonder about the aliens who actually come up with the ideas, innovations, theories, etc.

Chris

I like your theocracy idea, it makes a lot of sense. That makes Spider Alien culture not that different from the Dark Ages, when the church made all the decisions.

That would mean that the ones that come up with the ideas are the First Among Equals.

That's assuming he is the one "in charge" everywhere. He could just be the one in charge that we have seen, or there could even be more than one "first among equals". Maybe he is just the invasion commander or something. Or maybe there are a number of "city states" on the spider alien homeworld, and only one of them was launching this invasion!


In terms of technoorganic equipment, that could be - but it doesn't look like their guns are, and even if it is, they still need a knowledge of science, chemistry, the universe (etc) in order to navigate through space!

Chris

And the First might very well be the ones that hold all that knowledge.

Of course, don't forget that the alien hives come from queens, like regular spiders on Earth. We have seen that in comics like Eternal Warriors.

There are no spider hives on earth, and no "queen" spiders on earth.

And given that we have never seen an alien race, we can't say that "alien hives come from queens".

Yes, it has often been protrayed as such, based on the insects that do have hives, but it does not HAVE to be that way. There are many animals that have a dominant male as the "leader" of the group.

Queens maybe are the highest post of power, with the Fist acting like their viziers maybe? (think Jabba and Bib Fortuna. Jabba = Queen, Bib= First).

Bold put in by me. Yes, that certainly is one possibility.

I sort of like the idea of a conglomerate of "states" on the alien homeworld (rather than just one ruler), maybe with a ruling council or something. Usually it isn't done that way - it is always assumed that a space travelling culture always has one sort of "supreme" leader. Why is that? Why would territorial boundaries, cultural dispute between different ethnicities, rivalries between different countries suddenly vanish just because they can travel in space. If anything, I would think it could HEIGHTEN such divisions. It's like exploring new areas - and look what happened to Europe with the new world was "discovered". European countries didn't cease to exists - instead they bickered over what part belonged to whom.

[ManofTheAtom]

Scientists were hardly unseen. We saw a few of them in the Rise of Lydia story, and I'm sure we saw others in the HARD Corps two parter.

They looked like average soldiers but they were wearing lab coats.

I forgot about those. So I wonder if "scientists" are simply another subclass of "workers". Still makes me wonder about the aliens who actually come up with the ideas, innovations, theories, etc.

Chris

I like your theocracy idea, it makes a lot of sense. That makes Spider Alien culture not that different from the Dark Ages, when the church made all the decisions.

That would mean that the ones that come up with the ideas are the First Among Equals.

That's assuming he is the one "in charge" everywhere. He could just be the one in charge that we have seen, or there could even be more than one "first among equals". Maybe he is just the invasion commander or something. Or maybe there are a number of "city states" on the spider alien homeworld, and only one of them was launching this invasion!


In terms of technoorganic equipment, that could be - but it doesn't look like their guns are, and even if it is, they still need a knowledge of science, chemistry, the universe (etc) in order to navigate through space!

Chris

And the First might very well be the ones that hold all that knowledge.

Of course, don't forget that the alien hives come from queens, like regular spiders on Earth. We have seen that in comics like Eternal Warriors.

There are no spider hives on earth, and no "queen" spiders on earth.

And given that we have never seen an alien race, we can't say that "alien hives come from queens".

Yes, it has often been protrayed as such, based on the insects that do have hives, but it does not HAVE to be that way. There are many animals that have a dominant male as the "leader" of the group.

Queens maybe are the highest post of power, with the Fist acting like their viziers maybe? (think Jabba and Bib Fortuna. Jabba = Queen, Bib= First).

Bold put in by me. Yes, that certainly is one possibility.

I sort of like the idea of a conglomerate of "states" on the alien homeworld (rather than just one ruler), maybe with a ruling council or something. Usually it isn't done that way - it is always assumed that a space travelling culture always has one sort of "supreme" leader. Why is that? Why would territorial boundaries, cultural dispute between different ethnicities, rivalries between different countries suddenly vanish just because they can travel in space. If anything, I would think it could HEIGHTEN such divisions. It's like exploring new areas - and look what happened to Europe with the new world was "discovered". European countries didn't cease to exists - instead they bickered over what part belonged to whom.

On Earth, one single spider can give birth to millions of spiders (Charlotte's Web, for instance).

In VALIANT comics, we saw that Spider Aliens hives have queens.

The Spider Alien government would therefore be made up of queens, one queen for each species of spider in the race.

[cjv]

On Earth, one single spider can give birth to millions of spiders (Charlotte's Web, for instance).

That does not make it a "queen". There are many, many, many organisms that can give birth to huge number of offspring. The difference (in very general terms) is that a "queen" has a colony, the offspring STAY with the parent and form a hive. Spiders are solitary.

Again, just because they are called spider aliens does not mean they are the same as earth spiders. They are called that simply because of some similarities..they are not "spiders".

In VALIANT comics, we saw that Spider Aliens hives have queens.

Yes, we did see that in a few comics (again emphasizing that they are not like earth spiders). However, that's doesn't say anything about their political structure. The queens "may" be in charge, or perhaps they are only in charge of breeding or something.

The Spider Alien government would therefore be made up of queens, one queen for each species of spider in the race.

Presumably all of the spider aliens are of the same species. You are assuming that a "queen" is the political boss. Perhaps queens (for some reason) are in charge of the space fleet, because they provide the fleet with "bodies" to replace ones that died in space flight. Perhaps queens ARE the rulers of the homeworld. We just don't know.

Chris

[ManofTheAtom]

Again, just because they are called spider aliens does not mean they are the same as earth spiders. They are called that simply because of some similarities..they are not "spiders".

Yes they are. Read the comics. In Eternal Warrior we saw a giant spider alien queen in her nest.

Yes, we did see that in a few comics (again emphasizing that they are not like earth spiders). However, that's doesn't say anything about their political structure. The queens "may" be in charge, or perhaps they are only in charge of breeding or something.

They are in charge. Read the comics

Presumably all of the spider aliens are of the same species. You are assuming that a "queen" is the political boss. Perhaps queens (for some reason) are in charge of the space fleet, because they provide the fleet with "bodies" to replace ones that died in space flight. Perhaps queens ARE the rulers of the homeworld. We just don't know.

For informative purposes only.

http://www.valiantentertainment.com/wik ... od.27s_End

Miles away, inside a cave infested with Spider Aliens, the Queen Mother told Niala the half–breed that their food supply was growing low and that they needed to find more humans. As her hunger grew daily, the Queen Mother accused Niala of doing nothing to remedy and wanting to see her perish of starvation. Assuring the Queen Mother that the thought would never cross her mind, Niala told her that she had sent a scout troop out to look for human villages to raid. Leaving the cave, Niala ordered A’Too to prepare the scout troop and lead them. Hitting A’Too across the face with a mace when he grabbed her hand, Niala told him that none of them would ever touch her and would only bow when she was their queen.

Finding the Queen surrounded by his father and the members of his tribe, who were held on her web inside webbed cocoons, Gilad used the sword he acquired earlier and stabbed the Queen on the head, killing her instantly. As Gilad freed his father, Niala and the aliens walked into the cavern to kill him for slaying their queen. Revealing his deal with Niala, Gilad turned the aliens against her and watched as they took her away to make her their queen just as she wished. Freeing his father, Gilad forgave him and said that he understood that he was not different, just unique.

The queen is the highest position of power in their culture.

[Chiclo]

On Earth, one single spider can give birth to millions of spiders (Charlotte's Web, for instance).

Ok, sure. I kinda remember that from the comics.

In VALIANT comics, we saw that Spider Aliens hives have queens.

I remember that too. Good so far.

The Spider Alien government would therefore be made up of queens, one queen for each species of spider in the race.

Ah, an assumption. I believe it's possible but don't accept this as fact. It is a logical leap for a possible form of government but there's no evidence to support this.

These aren't terrestrial beings. It is difficult to make any statements derived from the comics and not taken directly from the comics and accept those statements as facts about the spider aliens because they are not terrestrial beings and all we know about, all the beings, spiders and forms of government with which we are familiar are terrestrial.

[ManofTheAtom]

On Earth, one single spider can give birth to millions of spiders (Charlotte's Web, for instance).

Ok, sure. I kinda remember that from the comics.

In VALIANT comics, we saw that Spider Aliens hives have queens.

I remember that too. Good so far.

The Spider Alien government would therefore be made up of queens, one queen for each species of spider in the race.

Ah, an assumption. I believe it's possible but don't accept this as fact. It is a logical leap for a possible form of government but there's no evidence to support this.

These aren't terrestrial beings. It is difficult to make any statements derived from the comics and not taken directly from the comics and accept those statements as facts about the spider aliens because they are not terrestrial beings and all we know about, all the beings, spiders and forms of government with which we are familiar are terrestrial.

The alien government could be like the government in an ant colony, where the queen gives the orders. It could be a government based more on what we see in nature than what we see in civilization.

[cjv]

Again, just because they are called spider aliens does not mean they are the same as earth spiders. They are called that simply because of some similarities..they are not "spiders".

Yes they are. Read the comics. In Eternal Warrior we saw a giant spider alien queen in her nest.

Spider are an earth creature, evolved on our planet. Something from another planet could appear spider-like, behave in a similar fashion, but they aren't "spiders".

From another comic book, that would be like calling a pink-Kree a human, because they look and behave like humans...but they aren't.

Yes, we did see that in a few comics (again emphasizing that they are not like earth spiders). However, that's doesn't say anything about their political structure. The queens "may" be in charge, or perhaps they are only in charge of breeding or something.

They are in charge. Read the comics

We saw them in charge of where they are. We don't know anything about their homeworld. You can, if you want, ASSUME they are in charge on the hoemworld as well, but there is no evidence of it.

The queen is the highest position of power in their culture.

According to your logic, when the US attacked the Germany in WWII, the Germans would say that Eisenhower was in charge of EVERYTHING in the US, simply because he was the head general. But he wasn't. Maybe the queens are their "head generals".

Do you understand that there is potenntially a difference in heirarchy between an invading force (which we saw here on Earth) and the political structure "back at home".

Chris