Origin of Harada - discussion

[Lightning Strike]

Discussion of the "Origin of Harada" storyline from Harbinger: The Beginning...

NOT long enough! Seriously, I thought it was very well done, and the origin story was neat (but short )

[Elveen]

So I just got the HC, but I am too lazy right now to read the entire thread.

I liked the Harada story, it "felt" like early Valiant. It was just too short. Maybe a entire new comics might have been to much to get, but a few more pages would have been nice.

I have not had a chance to completly check out the Harby issues, so I will have to post about that later.

I was a bit unsure about the old lady saying she was the first harbinger, or the "first one".

[Cyberstrike]

The dust jacket said that Harbingers have present through out human history, kinda makes you wonder about The Eternal Warrior, Armstrong,
and Ivar could they be Harbingers?

[slym2none]

The dust jacket said that Harbingers have present through out human history, kinda makes you wonder about The Eternal Warrior, Armstrong,
and Ivar could they be Harbingers?

Some speculation exists that they are the true "Alpha" Harbingers, the ones that started it all.



-slym

[Lightning Strike]

The dust jacket said that Harbingers have present through out human history, kinda makes you wonder about The Eternal Warrior, Armstrong,
and Ivar could they be Harbingers?

Some speculation exists that they are the true "Alpha" Harbingers, the ones that started it all.



-slym

Yep, but really, it was Solar that started it all.

[Elveen]

The dust jacket said that Harbingers have present through out human history, kinda makes you wonder about The Eternal Warrior, Armstrong,
and Ivar could they be Harbingers?

Some speculation exists that they are the true "Alpha" Harbingers, the ones that started it all.



-slym

Yep, but really, it was Solar that started it all.

Solar was the "creator" of the Valiant Universe.

[ManofTheAtom]

The dust jacket said that Harbingers have present through out human history, kinda makes you wonder about The Eternal Warrior, Armstrong,
and Ivar could they be Harbingers?

Some speculation exists that they are the true "Alpha" Harbingers, the ones that started it all.



-slym

Yep, but really, it was Solar that started it all.

Solar was the "creator" of the Valiant Universe.

But how was he its creator?

The universe was there before he was created and it was also there when he leaped back in time.

We don't really know what, if any, effect Solar had on the universe prior to his insertion in the timeline following his destruction of the universe.

[Elveen]

The dust jacket said that Harbingers have present through out human history, kinda makes you wonder about The Eternal Warrior, Armstrong,
and Ivar could they be Harbingers?

Some speculation exists that they are the true "Alpha" Harbingers, the ones that started it all.



-slym

Yep, but really, it was Solar that started it all.

Solar was the "creator" of the Valiant Universe.

But how was he its creator?

The universe was there before he was created and it was also there when he leaped back in time.

We don't really know what, if any, effect Solar had on the universe prior to his insertion in the timeline following his destruction of the universe.

I thought that it clearly says that because of Solar's blcak hole and re-starting of everything is the reason for Harbingers and the eteranls, the geomancers, all that stuff.

I swore I read that somewhere.

[ManofTheAtom]

I thought that it clearly says that because of Solar's blcak hole and re-starting of everything is the reason for Harbingers and the eteranls, the geomancers, all that stuff.

I swore I read that somewhere.

That may have been in either an intro in a trade or a post Shooter comic.

Can you find it?

[Elveen]

I thought that it clearly says that because of Solar's blcak hole and re-starting of everything is the reason for Harbingers and the eteranls, the geomancers, all that stuff.

I swore I read that somewhere.

That may have been in either an intro in a trade or a post Shooter comic.

Can you find it?

I am at school.

[ManofTheAtom]

I thought that it clearly says that because of Solar's blcak hole and re-starting of everything is the reason for Harbingers and the eteranls, the geomancers, all that stuff.

I swore I read that somewhere.

That may have been in either an intro in a trade or a post Shooter comic.

Can you find it?

I am at school.

excuses, excuses

[Blood of Heroes]

In the Valiant edition of Wizard, it states: "The black hole somehow tossed Phil Seleski back to a time before the accident at Edgewater, to a universe that had been subtly changed by the event."

It's not very specific, but what else would have been different besides the existence of harbingers.

Something else in the magazine that is Harada related: It says Harada was born in Hiroshima Japan in 1947. That's two years after we dropped the bomb on them.

[Lightning Strike]

The dust jacket said that Harbingers have present through out human history, kinda makes you wonder about The Eternal Warrior, Armstrong,
and Ivar could they be Harbingers?

Some speculation exists that they are the true "Alpha" Harbingers, the ones that started it all.



-slym

Yep, but really, it was Solar that started it all.

Solar was the "creator" of the Valiant Universe.

But how was he its creator?

The universe was there before he was created and it was also there when he leaped back in time.

We don't really know what, if any, effect Solar had on the universe prior to his insertion in the timeline following his destruction of the universe.

I thought that it clearly says that because of Solar's blcak hole and re-starting of everything is the reason for Harbingers and the eteranls, the geomancers, all that stuff.

I swore I read that somewhere.

You did. It was in an early issue of Solar.

[ManofTheAtom]

In the Valiant edition of Wizard, it states: "The black hole somehow tossed Phil Seleski back to a time before the accident at Edgewater, to a universe that had been subtly changed by the event."

It's not very specific, but what else would have been different besides the existence of harbingers.

Something else in the magazine that is Harada related: It says Harada was born in Hiroshima Japan in 1947. That's two years after we dropped the bomb on them.

Hmmm...

[Lightning Strike]

In the Valiant edition of Wizard, it states: "The black hole somehow tossed Phil Seleski back to a time before the accident at Edgewater, to a universe that had been subtly changed by the event."

It's not very specific, but what else would have been different besides the existence of harbingers.

Something else in the magazine that is Harada related: It says Harada was born in Hiroshima Japan in 1947. That's two years after we dropped the bomb on them.

Hmmm...

[Blood of Heroes]

I think Pete would have been too old to be born after the Three Mile Island accident, if he was born in Pennsylvania at all.

[ManofTheAtom]

I think Pete would have been too old to be born after the Three Mile Island accident, if he was born in Pennsylvania at all.

I doubt nuclear power has anything to do with Harbinger abilities, heh.

I think that it's either a natural evolution of the species or an effect of Solar traveling back in time.

I'd go with the second as it lends credence to Erica's accusation that Solar made the world a mess... after all, creatures like Harbingers, immortals, necromancers, and the other heroes and villains of the VALIANT Universe aren't supposed to exist in the world outside your window. Solar changed that.

Until we see confirmation of this, however, it's only a theory.

[Blood of Heroes]

I think Pete would have been too old to be born after the Three Mile Island accident, if he was born in Pennsylvania at all.

I doubt nuclear power has anything to do with Harbinger abilities, heh.

I think that it's either a natural evolution of the species or an effect of Solar traveling back in time.

I'd go with the second as it lends credence to Erica's accusation that Solar made the world a mess... after all, creatures like Harbingers, immortals, necromancers, and the other heroes and villains of the VALIANT Universe aren't supposed to exist in the world outside your window. Solar changed that.

Until we see confirmation of this, however, it's only a theory.

I totally agree with you. I just found it interesting that they had Harada born in Hiroshima.

[ManofTheAtom]

I think Pete would have been too old to be born after the Three Mile Island accident, if he was born in Pennsylvania at all.

I doubt nuclear power has anything to do with Harbinger abilities, heh.

I think that it's either a natural evolution of the species or an effect of Solar traveling back in time.

I'd go with the second as it lends credence to Erica's accusation that Solar made the world a mess... after all, creatures like Harbingers, immortals, necromancers, and the other heroes and villains of the VALIANT Universe aren't supposed to exist in the world outside your window. Solar changed that.

Until we see confirmation of this, however, it's only a theory.

I totally agree with you. I just found it interesting that they had Harada born in Hiroshima.

I think that was by design, same as with using Kalam as the name of Gilad's son.

As we discussed in another thread, Kalam can be a reference to the Kalām cosmological argument, which according to the entry at Wiki"It attempts to prove the existence of God by appealing to the principle of universal cause." (heh, if Solar is the God of the VALIANT Universe, then maybe Gilad's son knew it).

I think Shooter was covering all of his bases using different theories for where super powers come from to present possible explanations for why Harbingers exist.

Are they the result of science (nuclear power, like in Hiroshima) or the divine (God)?


or maybe they're the result of divine science (i.e. Solar).

[magnusr]

I doubt nuclear power has anything to do with Harbinger abilities, heh.

That's be more like Marvel. However, it can be trauma enough to pop a Harbinger (or at least "pre-pop").

Erica's accusation that Solar made the world a mess...

Is that the quotes we remember about Solar creating unusual beings or is there more?

/Magnus

[Cyberstrike]

The dust jacket said that Harbingers have present through out human history, kinda makes you wonder about The Eternal Warrior, Armstrong,
and Ivar could they be Harbingers?

Some speculation exists that they are the true "Alpha" Harbingers, the ones that started it all.



-slym

Now lets really push it: could people like Moses, Jesus, Muhammed, and Joan of Arc have been Harbingers in the Valiant Universe?

[magnusr]

could... Jesus ... Joan of Arc have been Harbingers in the Valiant Universe?

If Jesus was, Gilad didn't know about it (Eternal Warrior 17).

Joan of Arc was a geomancer (Geomancer 5).

/Magnus

[ManofTheAtom]

could... Jesus ... Joan of Arc have been Harbingers in the Valiant Universe?

If Jesus was, Gilad didn't know about it (Eternal Warrior 17).

Joan of Arc was a geomancer (Geomancer 5).

/Magnus

She did hear voices, so it makes sense.

[ManofTheAtom]

The dust jacket said that Harbingers have present through out human history, kinda makes you wonder about The Eternal Warrior, Armstrong,
and Ivar could they be Harbingers?

Some speculation exists that they are the true "Alpha" Harbingers, the ones that started it all.



-slym

Now lets really push it: could people like Moses, Jesus, Muhammed, and Joan of Arc have been Harbingers in the Valiant Universe?

Some of them may have been Harbingers, some of them may have been Geomancers, and some of them may have even been Necromancers.

[cjv]

You did. It was in an early issue of Solar.

In one comic (a Solar one? something else) Solar speculated that he somehow (and I am paraphrasing) retroactiely changed history and the universe when he went through the black hole to allow for the creation of Harbingers, eternals, geomancers, etc. Heck, maybe even the spider aliens and such.

Prior to the black hole, I believe that geomancers, Harbingers, immortals did not exist. The Valiant Universe prior to the black hole really WAS the universe outside our window. After Seleski went back in time in the black hole, it became VH-1.

IMO.

Chris