Shocker Announces Indy Toy Line (Includes Solar & Magnus

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 7:55:53 pm

jedimarley wrote:They spent it. Now it's time to make some.

Yep, but I don't think they can make money off the VALIANT properties just yet, not until the trademark stuff is dealt with.

They could go after some VALIANT-concept friendly trademarks, like the ones I suggested or other similar ones, so they can establish themselves in the market.

The question is, if they were to begin with comics based on Automan and GAH (for example), how would people react to them?

I think it be a negative reaction and most people would choose to wait until they did X-O Manowar, Magnus, and Harbinger.

Personally I wouldn't mind, if it was a concept I gravitated towards I'd buy it, but we gotta think about what everyone else would be most inclined to get, and the problem is that what they'd buy is what VEI can't publish right now.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 7:56:21 pm

Shocker Toys wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:Gotta spend money to make money...
Isnt that the truth =)

jedimarley · Post by **jedimarley** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 8:01:23 pm

ManofTheAtom wrote:
jedimarley wrote:They spent it. Now it's time to make some.
Yep, but I don't think they can make money off the VALIANT properties just yet, not until the trademark stuff is dealt with.

They own the trademarks on some of the characters. Take those and do something with them (and not comics. wait till they have then all)

Make action figures. lithos. Prints. Pins. Something. Anything to get the ball rolling.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 8:05:28 pm

jedimarley wrote:They own the trademarks on some of the characters. Take those and do something with them (and not comics. wait till they have then all)

Make action figures. lithos. Prints. Pins. Something. Anything to get the ball rolling.

I rather they didn't do anything until they can get Harbinger back. That to me is the most important trademark in contention right now as Harbinger is to VALIANT what the JLA is to DC in terms of importance to the greater universe.

Then there's Eternal Warrior and Bloodshot, both of which are just as important to VALIANT in the way that Flash and Green Lantern or Aquaman and Martian Manhunter are to DC.

BrianT · Post by **BrianT** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 8:10:18 pm

Shocker Toys wrote:I am confused about the whole rights thing. Gold Key went to Classic Media which we now have for action figures. Dino and investors got the rest of VALIANT so why can't they license them out for toys as well. I did not know there was a trademark issue with the characters if they were bought properly. We just want to make a great comic book line like Marvel legends for the fans.

Gold Key went to Random House, which licensed the Gold Key characters to Classic Media, who Shocker Toys got the license from.

VEI owns the copyrights to all the Valiant properties and many of the trademarks. However, a dozen Valiant trademarks are currently in dispute with another entity, VIP. One of those marks being the "Valiant" one. So while VEI can license out their characters for toys and whatever, they are probably hesitate to do so because of the dispute over the "Valiant" mark.

jedimarley · Post by **jedimarley** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 8:11:16 pm

Well. They need to do something cause it looks like 2007 will be 'Valiant-less'.

Shame. Isn't it?

jedimarley · Post by **jedimarley** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 8:12:47 pm

Brian Thomer wrote:
Shocker Toys wrote:I am confused about the whole rights thing. Gold Key went to Classic Media which we now have for action figures. Dino and investors got the rest of VALIANT so why can't they license them out for toys as well. I did not know there was a trademark issue with the characters if they were bought properly. We just want to make a great comic book line like Marvel legends for the fans.
Gold Key went to Random House, which licensed the Gold Key characters to Classic Media, who Shocker Toys got the license from.

VEI owns the copyrights to all the VALIANT properties and many of the trademarks. However, a dozen VALIANT trademarks are currently in dispute with another entity, VIP. One of those marks being the "VALIANT" one. So while VEI can license out their characters for toys and whatever, they are probably hesitate to do so because of the dispute over the "VALIANT" mark.

The valiant mark?

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 8:12:56 pm

jedimarley wrote:Well. They need to do something cause it looks like 2007 will be 'VALIANT-less'.

Shame. Isn't it?

Yeah, but I can wait.

I rather they do it so that we get the whole gang back together, not just the few "important" characters they have now.

Plus, like Brian points out, as long as the name itself is in dispute, they can't or probably don't want to do anything until that's cleared.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 8:13:29 pm

jedimarley wrote:
Brian Thomer wrote:
Shocker Toys wrote:I am confused about the whole rights thing. Gold Key went to Classic Media which we now have for action figures. Dino and investors got the rest of VALIANT so why can't they license them out for toys as well. I did not know there was a trademark issue with the characters if they were bought properly. We just want to make a great comic book line like Marvel legends for the fans.
Gold Key went to Random House, which licensed the Gold Key characters to Classic Media, who Shocker Toys got the license from.

VEI owns the copyrights to all the VALIANT properties and many of the trademarks. However, a dozen VALIANT trademarks are currently in dispute with another entity, VIP. One of those marks being the "VALIANT" one. So while VEI can license out their characters for toys and whatever, they are probably hesitate to do so because of the dispute over the "VALIANT" mark.
The VALIANT mark?

The VALIANT trademark is one of the TMs VIP went after.

jedimarley · Post by **jedimarley** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 8:14:55 pm

ManofTheAtom wrote:
jedimarley wrote:Well. They need to do something cause it looks like 2007 will be 'VALIANT-less'.

Shame. Isn't it?
Yeah, but I can wait.

But can their financiers wait.

jedimarley · Post by **jedimarley** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 8:15:53 pm

ManofTheAtom wrote:
jedimarley wrote:
Brian Thomer wrote:
Shocker Toys wrote:I am confused about the whole rights thing. Gold Key went to Classic Media which we now have for action figures. Dino and investors got the rest of VALIANT so why can't they license them out for toys as well. I did not know there was a trademark issue with the characters if they were bought properly. We just want to make a great comic book line like Marvel legends for the fans.
Gold Key went to Random House, which licensed the Gold Key characters to Classic Media, who Shocker Toys got the license from.

VEI owns the copyrights to all the VALIANT properties and many of the trademarks. However, a dozen VALIANT trademarks are currently in dispute with another entity, VIP. One of those marks being the "VALIANT" one. So while VEI can license out their characters for toys and whatever, they are probably hesitate to do so because of the dispute over the "VALIANT" mark.
The VALIANT mark?
The VALIANT trademark is one of the TMs VIP went after.

Aren't they using it for their ebay store???

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 8:16:17 pm

jedimarley wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:
jedimarley wrote:Well. They need to do something cause it looks like 2007 will be 'VALIANT-less'.

Shame. Isn't it?
Yeah, but I can wait.

But can their financiers wait.

Depends on where the financing came from, if from strangers or (as a rumor someone here posted a while ago said) family.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 8:16:45 pm

jedimarley wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:
jedimarley wrote:
Brian Thomer wrote:
Shocker Toys wrote:I am confused about the whole rights thing. Gold Key went to Classic Media which we now have for action figures. Dino and investors got the rest of VALIANT so why can't they license them out for toys as well. I did not know there was a trademark issue with the characters if they were bought properly. We just want to make a great comic book line like Marvel legends for the fans.
Gold Key went to Random House, which licensed the Gold Key characters to Classic Media, who Shocker Toys got the license from.

VEI owns the copyrights to all the VALIANT properties and many of the trademarks. However, a dozen VALIANT trademarks are currently in dispute with another entity, VIP. One of those marks being the "VALIANT" one. So while VEI can license out their characters for toys and whatever, they are probably hesitate to do so because of the dispute over the "VALIANT" mark.
The VALIANT mark?
The VALIANT trademark is one of the TMs VIP went after.
Aren't they using it for their ebay store???

Use is a prerequisite when dealing with trademarks.

(note to self: stop using big words when you're not sure how to spell them)

Shocker Toys · Post by **Shocker Toys** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 8:47:44 pm

ManofTheAtom wrote:
jedimarley wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:
jedimarley wrote:Well. They need to do something cause it looks like 2007 will be 'VALIANT-less'.

Shame. Isn't it?
Yeah, but I can wait.

But can their financiers wait.
Depends on where the financing came from, if from strangers or (as a rumor someone here posted a while ago said) family.

I need a family like that lol!

BrianT · Post by **BrianT** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:37:16 pm

jedimarley wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:
jedimarley wrote:Well. They need to do something cause it looks like 2007 will be 'VALIANT-less'.

Shame. Isn't it?
Yeah, but I can wait.

But can their financiers wait.

Most startup businesses lose money the first few years. This is just par for the course. If their financiers didn't realize that then they shouldn't have been lending the money.

IMO, it's the "Valiant" mark that's slowing everything up in particular. VEI will probably wait to put out a new Valiant comic line until all of the trademark disputes are over, but waiting on that Valiant mark is probably what's keeping them from releasing trades of the previous incarnation or doing any other merchandise.

But don't let that make you think they're doing nothing. Chances are they're using this time to develop the comic line as well as shop the properties to other media.

jedimarley · Post by **jedimarley** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 7:20:04 am

Brian Thomer wrote:But don't let that make you think they're doing nothing. Chances are they're using this time to develop the comic line as well as shop the properties to other media.

Can they legally do that if they don't own the rights?

What 'other media' is going to want to get involved in this?

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:32:27 am

jedimarley wrote:
Brian Thomer wrote:But don't let that make you think they're doing nothing. Chances are they're using this time to develop the comic line as well as shop the properties to other media.
Can they legally do that if they don't own the rights?

What 'other media' is going to want to get involved in this?

They own the rights to all the characters, the only thing they don't have right now is the names.

If it came to it they can call Gilad's story "Fist & Steel", call Bloodshot's "Rising Spirit", and call Harbinger "Children of the Eight Day".

The most important mark is the VALIANT tm. Without it they'd have to call themselves something else.

jedimarley · Post by **jedimarley** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:37:03 am

No. What I'm saying is how can they pitch ideas to other companies on something that they don not own 100% of?

Is that legal?

Zero · Post by **Zero** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:37:13 am

jedimarley wrote:
Brian Thomer wrote:But don't let that make you think they're doing nothing. Chances are they're using this time to develop the comic line as well as shop the properties to other media.
Can they legally do that if they don't own the rights?

What 'other media' is going to want to get involved in this?

I think it's more a question of probabilities. VEI is claiming ownership as well as VIP. At the end of the day only one will own them. VEI can show a trend, I'm assuming, that they are winning the court battle. Didn't they win a couple of the TMs already? Anyway, if they can show that they will eventually win, VEI can make connections with interested parties from other media outlets. They may not be able to sign deals yet, but that doesn't mean that agreements cannot be reached in principle. ~Pete

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:42:15 am

jedimarley wrote:No. What I'm saying is how can they pitch ideas to other companies on something that they don not own 100% of?

Is that legal?

They own 100% of the copyrights (i.e. the concepts). The trademarks are just the word that appears on the cover of the comic, the front of the toy box, or the lid of the DVD case.

They can pitch a TV show based on the concept from Harbinger, Bloodshot, or Eternal Warrior, they'd just need a new name for it, that's all.

BrianT · Post by **BrianT** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 10:59:12 am

jedimarley wrote:No. What I'm saying is how can they pitch ideas to other companies on something that they don not own 100% of?

Is that legal?

They own everything connected to properties like X-O, Bloodshot, Archer & Armstrong and many others. They can move forward on TV shows, animated direct to DVD, or feature films. Those are big enough opportunities that they'd likely be willing to move forward on right away despite the "Valiant" trademark status being iffy. All that means is that you may not see the "Valiant" name in connection to those projects. Win or lose the "Valiant" mark won't affect the studio trying to make the project. Not to mention that those things take so long to develop that they're probably hoping this trademark thing is settled before the final cut is ready to go.

Keep in mind that it took Disney a year and a half to do anything with the Abadazad property and 2 years to offer trades of already existing CrossGen material. And that sale was problem free. I know it feels like a long time, but in the context of similar events, it really isn't.

BrianT · Post by **BrianT** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 11:00:15 am

ManofTheAtom wrote:call Bloodshot's "Rising Spirit",

Unnecessary because VEI holds the "Bloodshot" TM.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 11:00:48 am

Brian Thomer wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:call Bloodshot's "Rising Spirit",
Unnecessary because VEI holds the "Bloodshot" TM.

Excelent.

BrianT · Post by **BrianT** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 11:04:15 am

Zero wrote:Didn't they win a couple of the TMs already?

Check the Trademark Status thread. VEI has the "Bloodshot" mark. VIP has "Punx", "Outcast", "The Visitor", and "Dr. Mirage" (although keep in mind that VEI didn't try to get the first three). VIP was denied the "Valiant" mark, but they've recently appealed that decision.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 11:06:18 am

ManofTheAtom wrote:They own the rights to all the characters, the only thing they don't have right now is the names.

Correction

They have the names, what they can't do is use them on the cover of the comic or any of the other things I mentioned before.

Within the story Gilad can be refered to as Eternal Warrior, same way Billy Batson can be called Captain Marvel but the comic/TV show/movie can't.