Book of Death: Legends of the Geomancer

[jmatt]

Yeah. I'm guessing this is like one of those legendary *SQUEE* matches on the board back in the good ole days before I joined.

I'm glad I didn't read this thread, it looks exhausting.

[jeremycoe]

Like I said in the other thread, this could be a case of this book being released using this promotion or not being released at all. I'd rather this story see the light of day even if I have to pay more to get it, than it not be released period.

I'm also almost surprised I've heard nothing in this thread about the toys r us exclusive Secret Wars comic that you get for spending $25 on Marvel toys. It seems to be a pretty similar promotion if you think about it.

Two things:
1. This is a Valiant forum, not a Marvel forum, and
2. Usually books released through those sort of promotions are not considered canon, whereas the "story of the first Geomancer" would seem to be a pretty big piece of the actual Valiant universe.

And, I don't complain about Marvel because I don't care about Marvel, and I don't expect anyone from Marvel to respond to the complaints of fans. I *do* expect Valiant to take notice if enough supporters of theirs have issues with a promotion.

1. Yes, but Marvel is talked about a lot on these forums. That, and it has been said that other publishers haven't done anything similar.

2. The listing for this book sure makes it sound like canon.

[jeremycoe]

I'm also almost surprised I've heard nothing in this thread about the toys r us exclusive Secret Wars comic that you get for spending $25 on Marvel toys.

What's that, like one action figure?

Something like that I think I'd rather have one copy of Legends than a Marvel action figure and toys r us' exclusive book.

Yeah, the sculpts on the newer Marvel figures pale in comparison to the first Marvel Legends assortments.

Is the Toys r' Us exclusive book a variant or a new story that you can't get anywhere else?

New story from what I can tell.

[tiredofmyself]

I'm also almost surprised I've heard nothing in this thread about the toys r us exclusive Secret Wars comic that you get for spending $25 on Marvel toys.

What's that, like one action figure?

Something like that I think I'd rather have one copy of Legends than a Marvel action figure and toys r us' exclusive book.

Yeah, the sculpts on the newer Marvel figures pale in comparison to the first Marvel Legends assortments.

Is the Toys r' Us exclusive book a variant or a new story that you can't get anywhere else?

New story from what I can tell.

It's only 12 pages, it's a #0.5 prequel to a tie-in book that may be only interesting to Iron Man fans, and Marvel haven't gone out of their way to say it won't be collected in TPB.

Although I'm still thinking all these bonus materials (Plus Edition, LotG) will eventually be included in Deluxe/Omnibus, but that shall took years.

[agent_graves]

I love Ryps work, my eye sees his work halfway between Jim Lee and Frank Quitely.

and I prefer him to both...

more like geof darrow and quietly.

This.. I grew up on Lee, I don't see that here, but the other three, are cut from the same cloth, for sure.

[agent_graves]

666 replies about one book?

Aw, come on, man...we've been off-topic for at least 333 of those.

[leonmallett]

And it's a shame that it's only available for people who would like to pay 20 USD per issue.

It's available for anyone who wants to purchase it, you are choosing not to purchase it at the price it is available at, there's a difference

It's semantics. In the end, there is a systematic exclusion of readers who are not willing to pay significantly higher than cover price for this issue, no matter what angle you look at it. And no, I'm not saying that VEI is consciously excluding a section of readers. It's just that the design of the incentive creates systematic exclusion.

...so then Valiant's Pullbox Plus initiative was designed to systematically exclude those TPB readers who were not willing to pay again for the single issue...
but I didn't see 27 pages of complaining about that.

Different mechanism though; you could simply add that to your order - this is something clearly not all LCS' are willing to embrace.

And about the Plus Rai, some of us did complain, but living in a region where it wasn't well distributed, few others cared (although there was a kind offer from lorddunlow), because the majority of posters were able to access it. This time that is not the case, so more are angry, and catching up with those of us outside the USA.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=44252&p=945922&hili ... us#p945922" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There is a second class VEI customer unfortunately, which is something I have suggested for some time.

[cray_ws]

Like I said in the other thread, this could be a case of this book being released using this promotion or not being released at all. I'd rather this story see the light of day even if I have to pay more to get it, than it not be released period.

I'm also almost surprised I've heard nothing in this thread about the toys r us exclusive Secret Wars comic that you get for spending $25 on Marvel toys. It seems to be a pretty similar promotion if you think about it.

The Secret Wars comic is not exclusive at all. Just buy the damn action figure in any Toys R' us store. I bet you can find them in other stores too. Then again if it's really exclusive to Toys R'us it's not like you gotta haggle with store manager to order excessive amount of action figures just so a customer can get some rare non-canonical comic book inside some crappy plastic figurine. So there's nothing special about it.

[leonmallett]

To Ed/Paradise or someone in the know: who carries the cost of returns? The publisher, Diamond or the retailer? (Obviously retailers carry some cost in terms of labour, and presumably Diamond too).

[Peter]

My local shop won't be getting it either, but that is why I have built up a customer relationship with Ed over the last few years.

Ed, as you all know, goes above and beyond for Valiant ( I would include Bruce and Elery and many others as well) and his specials for first issues are good value. I happen to like trying to get all the variants, with which I am quite happy to sacrifice my buying from the big two, I still get my reading copies from my local, so I'm still supporting them as well.

I can fully understand other points of view regards the accessibility of Legends of the Geomancer and the cost involved, but to me it is simple, if your local shop can't help, vote with your money.

I'm prepared to spend $20 on this book if it is rare all the better, I will never sell it, so profit doesn't interest me.
Yes it may seem like a lot to spend for a normal book, but like anything in this world you prioritise, if you would rather not spend $20 on this book, that is your decision. By the sounds of it, the story will not affect any of the other books and I'm sure completists will be able to get this story down the track in a collected volume.

I'm definitely not wealthy, I just prioritise my comic buying, and I'm a sucker for Valiant, I'm weak don't hate me haha

[kjjohanson]

My local shop won't be getting it either, but that is why I have built up a customer relationship with Ed over the last few years.

Ed, as you all know, goes above and beyond for Valiant ( I would include Bruce and Elery and many others as well) and his specials for first issues are good value. I happen to like trying to get all the variants, with which I am quite happy to sacrifice my buying from the big two, I still get my reading copies from my local, so I'm still supporting them as well.

I can fully understand other points of view regards the accessibility of Legends of the Geomancer and the cost involved, but to me it is simple, if your local shop can't help, vote with your money.

I'm prepared to spend $20 on this book if it is rare all the better, I will never sell it, so profit doesn't interest me.
Yes it may seem like a lot to spend for a normal book, but like anything in this world you prioritise, if you would rather not spend $20 on this book, that is your decision. By the sounds of it, the story will not affect any of the other books and I'm sure completists will be able to get this story down the track in a collected volume.

I'm definitely not wealthy, I just prioritise my comic buying, and I'm a sucker for Valiant, I'm weak don't hate me haha

My "local" is Midtown Comics, and they already order tons of Valiant. They've got the LotG available at a "discounted" $34. No, thanks, I'll pass.

Occasionally I'll spring for one of Ed's packages, but usually only for issue 1 of an ongoing. In this case, I don't particularly care about the variants of the BoD mini, and I think in general they are going to be more abundant than variants usually are if retailers are bumping up their orders to get the LotG series. The incentive variants won't be returned in all likelihood, so they may be available at a lower price than variants usually are at a later date.

[jeremycoe]

Like I said in the other thread, this could be a case of this book being released using this promotion or not being released at all. I'd rather this story see the light of day even if I have to pay more to get it, than it not be released period.

I'm also almost surprised I've heard nothing in this thread about the toys r us exclusive Secret Wars comic that you get for spending $25 on Marvel toys. It seems to be a pretty similar promotion if you think about it.

The Secret Wars comic is not exclusive at all. Just buy the damn action figure in any Toys R' us store. I bet you can find them in other stores too. Then again if it's really exclusive to Toys R'us it's not like you gotta haggle with store manager to order excessive amount of action figures just so a customer can get some rare non-canonical comic book inside some crappy plastic figurine. So there's nothing special about it.

I didn't realize you weren't allowed to order it from DCBS, or Ed, or Midtown. Sorry for not realizing that.

[cray_ws]

Like I said in the other thread, this could be a case of this book being released using this promotion or not being released at all. I'd rather this story see the light of day even if I have to pay more to get it, than it not be released period.

I'm also almost surprised I've heard nothing in this thread about the toys r us exclusive Secret Wars comic that you get for spending $25 on Marvel toys. It seems to be a pretty similar promotion if you think about it.

The Secret Wars comic is not exclusive at all. Just buy the damn action figure in any Toys R' us store. I bet you can find them in other stores too. Then again if it's really exclusive to Toys R'us it's not like you gotta haggle with store manager to order excessive amount of action figures just so a customer can get some rare non-canonical comic book inside some crappy plastic figurine. So there's nothing special about it.

I didn't realize you weren't allowed to order it from DCBS, or Ed, or Midtown. Sorry for not realizing that.

You listed 3 shops, How many comic book readers do you think know about them? Furthermore if you're suggesting Midtown will take orders for more than 100 copies of this book. I would be seriously impressed.

This book isn't supposed to be available to the general public. If it was, this thread wouldn't have gotten this far. The book doesn't even have a recommended cover price. It's a vanity item for fanboy comic book dealers like Ed. Valiant could care less if you sell it to the public.

Can you imagine if the makers of Crest toothpaste giving a manager of Walmart one tube of rainbow paste if they order extra quantities of their regular toothpaste? The manager would say...no thanks, I think I'll stick with my regular orders. But Crest would say...the unsold toothpaste is returnable! You think a manager cares about a tube of rainbow colored toothpaste? Hell no! He'd be laughing at Crest for trying scheme into some lame con job. Crest was serious about expanding their business they would be doing things like taking the manager out for dinner to talk business. Come up with some real incentives and negotiate for prime shelf space. In general treat the manager like a legitimate businessman instead toying with them with trinkets and convincing them to swallow their crap.

[jeremycoe]

I'm going to go talk to my Wal-Mart manager today. I want some rainbow toothpaste.

[jeremycoe]

I would strongly guess that most people who are aware of this book and want it know of at least one online shop they can pre-order it from. Suggesting otherwise seems a bit disingenuous.

[slack]

even discounted and returnable, it's a horrible plan.
1. book of death will be over-produced.
2. lcs doesn't want to take time boxing up and shipping back hundreds of books they knew they wouldn't sell.
3. if they don't return, there's hundreds of the same issues to line the dollar bin with. that looks bad to consumers.
4. making it fully returnable and discounted means they are PLANNING on MANY unsold issues. planned overproduction is incredibly wasteful, and destructive.
5. fans want books, not to beg store owners to buy a crap-ton of product that they have no possibility of selling, just to box most of them up and send them home a month later.
6. it's already making people drop quantum& woody, or in some cases, the entire line. VEI fans support the company, but this doesn't feel like it's supporting the fanbase, it feels like press manipulation, and aftermarket manipulation.

[Donovan]

6. it's already making people drop quantum& woody,

Lol! source?

[depluto]

This reminds of that time when the Ultraverse made it so the only way you could get that Prime book was to buy the Sega Saturn game. Where is the Ultraverse now?

Wait, it's not really like that at all.

<sits down>



<goes to kitchen to make some lunch>

[wwise03]

I had actually convinced my LCS to order 25 issues of Book of Death 1 so that he could get Legends of the Geomancer for his five Valiant readers (I am proud to say that I was the first and have since gathered four Valiant fans to our cause).

Turns out, you have to order 25 issues of Book of Death 1 to get only one copy of Legends of the Geomancer. So to take care of his five Valiant regulars, he would have to order 125 issues of Book of Death 1. I am fairly certain he doesn't even have 125 consistent customers.

So my store owner will not be getting 25 issues of Book of Death anymore. Instead, he will get 5.

What would have been a great opportunity to distribute 20 extra issues of Book of Death around to his customers and grow his Valiant readership has turned into a situation in which he will not order any extra issues.

As far as the "fully returnable" thing goes, it sounds like nonsense. Taking the time and effort to return the books is a hassle. The hassle, plus the shipping costs, plus the possibility that you will be screwed and won't receive your money back, makes the whole idea of "fully returnable" not worth it.

[JeffBohn]

Hey, I want to do some fuzzy math (I'm not a retailer, but here is how I see it). Does the 80% discount for retailers (when they order over 25 issues) apply to each of the covers or is it just the main cover?

Lets go with 75 of the issue to qualify for 3 of the Legends of Geomancer books... (125 is also a nice number, gets 5 LoG books and 2 of the 1:60 covers)

15 issues cover A ($0.80 cents each - $12)
15 issues cover B ($0.80 cents each - $12)
15 issues cover C ($0.80 cents each - $12)
15 issues cover D ($0.80 cents each - $12)
15 issues Cover E blank cover ($0.80 cents each - $12)

qualifies for...

7 1:10 variant covers (lets go with $2 a piece - $14)
3 1:20 variant covers ($6 total)
3 1:25 Legends of the Geomancer books ($6 total)
1 1:60 variant cover ($2)

Total spent - $88, not including shipping, for a total of 89 books. Lets round it up to $100.

Let's bundle some of those up and mark them up a little bit (need to make some profit) for a couple Valiant collectors...

1 BUNDLE - 1 Cover A, 1 Cover B, 1 Cover C, 1 Cover D, 1 Cover E, 1 1:10 variant, 1 1:20 variant, 1 1:25 Legends of the Geomancer, 1 1:60 Variant book. Going way on the low end, $60.

2 BUNDLES available - 1 Cover A, 1 Cover B, 1 Cover C, 1 Cover D, 1 Cover E, 1 1:10 variant, 1 1:20 variant, 1 1:25 Legends of the Geomancer. Again, way on the low end, $40.

So far, profit? Now you've got 12 each of the regular covers, you can bundle those together or shelve them, run a big deal on them? Return them if it's worth it? Go higher on the blank sketch cover and doodle on them?

Again, not a retailer, so someone correct me!

[jaden_sai]

How Valiant Comics Lost a Dedicated Fan…
https://comicspectrumblog.wordpress.com ... ost-a-fan/



so he's reading (and I assume enjoying) a majority of Valiant titles, he can't get one mini-series at the price point he wants so he's out on all Valiant titles...

Seriously...

[Donovan]

How Valiant Comics Lost a Dedicated Fan…
https://comicspectrumblog.wordpress.com ... ost-a-fan/



so he's reading (and I assume enjoying) a majority of Valiant titles, he can't get one mini-series at the price point he wants so he's out on all Valiant titles...

Seriously...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDuAlxVu4zs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[wwise03]

How Valiant Comics Lost a Dedicated Fan…
https://comicspectrumblog.wordpress.com ... ost-a-fan/



so he's reading (and I assume enjoying) a majority of Valiant titles, he can't get one mini-series at the price point he wants so he's out on all Valiant titles...

Seriously...

I don't blame him. I am beginning to understand that this has the potential to lose more long-time and loyal fans than it has to gain more new and not so loyal fans.

I will be getting Legends of the Geomancer one way or the other, but I don't blame people for being so offended as to jump ship completely.

[jaden_sai]

I don't blame him. I am beginning to understand that this has the potential to lose more long-time and loyal fans than it has to gain more new and not so loyal fans.

I will be getting Legends of the Geomancer one way or the other, but I don't blame people for being so offended as to jump ship completely.

I just have a hard time with that, if I'm loving Imperium and the publisher of Imperium releases something I can't get at the price point I demand, I'm not going to quit reading the book I already love... I'm just not going to get that other book(s)

If someone stops reading all comics of a publisher who has marketing initiatives they don't agree with/like...then I'd like to know what comics they are actually reading? seems that would be quite limiting

[slack]

6. it's already making people drop quantum& woody,

Lol! source?

in the first few pages of this thread a few people say they are dropping quantum and woody because they were mainly buying it to support valiant, but now they feel valiant isn't supporting them.