Book of Death: Legends of the Geomancer

[FormerReader]

Why then give speculators a story that only they could get? It's like they are forcing readers to spend like a speculator.

Why not let the market decide. We may find this book is much more affordable than we expect.

I don't understand getting worked up over something before it has even happened This comment is not directed at you erwinrafael, but in general).

Well, at the moment, my only option, as a digital customer is to preorder it to the tune of $35 an issue from Midtown Comics. (Because putting together a big enough order for DCBS's minimum in order to get ONE book, sorry, just isn't reasonable.)

I may not buy the book when it is first available (then again I may, not sure yet). I understand the frustration from your point of view. I guess my point is why not wait and see how this all works out. We may not all be able to get this series the day it comes out. That is annoying, but we may be able to get this series for under cover a month or two after the fact (or maybe not). I can't keep up with Valiant. I tried to get all the variants. That lasted for half a year. Then I tried to get all the golds. I still don't have Bloodshot #1 gold. I couldn't get a Unity 3d or Unity Red when they came out (I ended up paying $20 bucks for them a few months later). I then said I'll just get the reprints and convention exclusives.

I know the difference here is this is a separate story you want to read (as we all do) and I appreciate that, but I'm sure you will have the opportunity to read it whether you find it for sale after it is released or by some other method. No matter what has been solicited you will be able to get a copy of this story shortly after it is released.

[tiredofmyself]

Why then give speculators a story that only they could get? It's like they are forcing readers to spend like a speculator.

Why not let the market decide. We may find this book is much more affordable than we expect.

I don't understand getting worked up over something before it has even happened This comment is not directed at you erwinrafael, but in general).

I think you are right about the big fuss over this whole thing, but on the other hand, we may all die tomorrow, so maybe it's ok to whine a bit when we are still able.

[Paul Nolan]

Why then give speculators a story that only they could get? It's like they are forcing readers to spend like a speculator.

Why not let the market decide. We may find this book is much more affordable than we expect.

I don't understand getting worked up over something before it has even happened This comment is not directed at you erwinrafael, but in general).

Because its a damn sight easier to encourage valiant to print a proper size print run in the first place.

[leonmallett]

I'll feel a lot better about it if I can convince my LCS to get enough for me to have a copy of each.

Explain the incentive and discounts to them and tell them you will pay X for 1 of each book (or cover) and they keep the rest, and it's 100% returnable.

If your retailer says no, I give you my permission to slap him/her upside their head and walk out of the store.

This just seems odd; leaving it to the customer to explain to the business how this should work?

From the little I understand of this initiative it seems crass and a smack in the face of fans who want to be able to read the complete thing in a contemporaneous fashion.

Worse still, and something VEI still keep ignoring, other parts of the globe are effectively treated differently on these kinds of things, simply due to market differences.

The whole thing is starting to leave a bitter taste for me. I have supported VEI even through buying books I feel are poorquality in execution (Asmus' Q&W) to support the company as a whole, yet there is a real chance that yet again (like with Rai Plus #1) I simply won't have the opportunity to buy this. Not about cost, but purely opportunity. Thanks VEI, Dino and Warren, if that is the way you have chosen to go.

[leonmallett]

Ed is right, they are taking the risk of missing out on my money in the hopes of gaining more readers over all. But given the movie news, etc, lately I think that is more likely to produce new (and sustained) readers over time than an artificially inflated "hot" comic most likely to appeal only to the most avid of current fans and a handful of speculators.

Just my

Hmm, I still think the point is missed. Once a retailer orders those 25 (or 50, 100) copies and has them in the store, the idea is that he'll try to promote them, because they are his best margin in the store. All other comics cost him $2 or more. These cost him 80 cents. if they have ANY brain at all, they want to make $3.20 on a $4 book instead of returning it. That's the hope. And that is what makes new readers. so it's not a hot comic, it's a fight for ANY rack space. Most stores don't stock vei at all. This may get them One placing. Which may get them another one as other customers start asking.

Scenario: UK LCS has 3 regular VALIANT readers, should they order 75(!) copies of BoD #1 to satsify their desire for BoD: LotG?

As lorddunlow points out, the experience in California or New York is not representative to the wider readership.

[leonmallett]

I would like to know if there is a reader here, not somebody who buys books as investments, who would shell out the money for this book.

Yes, I would. Because, at the end of the day, I want the whole story. Investment? This book will have little to no, resale value.

Ditto. I accept it will be costly, and likely very costly *if* I can track down copies, most likely from the USA since shipping will drive the cost up, but that is ONLY if I can actually get the opportunity.

[leonmallett]

Personally, I still think its ludicrously stupid that a company is limiting the readership of a tie in to potentially 4% of the main series.

you'll miss out on buyers who are completionists and don't think they'll get the whole Book of Death story.
you'll lose loyal readers, because they're annoyed they're being excluded hold of the book
You'll create friction in comic shops if some normal Valiant readers see someone else get the book over them.

yay, comic shops can make some extra cents per issue, but is the cost to good will really worth it....?

Valiant really need to rethink this dis-incentive.

Totally agreed.

[leonmallett]

He's saying it was a drastic change in tactics that put the needs of the publisher over the desires of the fanbase. It's not about pleasing the fans, it's about getting product into new hands and on new shelves. Within the US it essentially means that they'll be giving retailers a risk-free way to see how much Valiant they can sell. That, and the loyal fans will likely find a way to access this series anyway, and more retailers being involved will facilitate that.

It's not the business of it that is controversial but the way that it clearly isn't about the fanbase that many find irksome.

MHM, yes. Sometimes a publisher has to make a long term game changer move, despite the fanbase. Fanbase can really slow the publisher down if they try to appease them in every way. Stuns growth.

Think DC Comics' New 52. Long time DC nuts like myself and Ian House completely alienated and dropping all or almost all DC titles. Readers who were intimidated by DC's long history came on board in numbers (perhaps) high enough to justify losing folks like me.

It works. Not sure how well or how sustainable, but "sustainable" and "modern comics industry" don't really get used too much in conjunction with each other much.

I dropped the DC as a consequence of that move. But this isn't even that. this isn't even variant cover. This is something different, heavily limiting access to story content, which ultimately seems a bad move IMHO, despite the defence of Ed and others, even with the logic they apply.

[leonmallett]

I don't see what the big deal is?! Then again I've established a relationship with my LCS; and they hooked me up. I'm sure there are plenty of customers paradise has serviced over the years, no problem; plus he also offers opportunities to hook up fans here; so he's going beyond his regulars to help others.... Though I use Graham Crackers; they're my LCS down the street; I wouldn't hesitate to use Paradise either ( I did for Unity) Try establishing a relationship with your LCS and you shouldn't have a problem

The big deal is not many of us have the luxury of a big LCS nearby (or an LCS at all) that will hook us up.

Yes. Second class ValiantFans.

[leonmallett]

Wait, there are new comics from Marvel that do not have digital version?
And there are digital comics that are not collected in TPB later? (Less sure of this because of the general quality of those random digital comics they may not collect some because it won't sell anyway).

Yes.
http://marvel.com/comics/issue/52174/ma ... axy_2015_3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://marvel.com/comics/issue/51456/av ... dra_2015_1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To stay on topic, the main problem I have is not that they are trying to coerce customers to help them get more penetration. The main problem is they are effectively blocking TPB and digital readers. Why is that necessary for the main scheme to work?

No one is being "blocked". Anyone can buy this. Just because it's not catered specifically to you doesn't mean you can't buy it.

I know there are many who don't care for this decision VEI has made, and that's fine, but I don't think whining about it is going to change things at this point. If you don't like it don't buy the issue. Vote with your wallet.

Cool, the animation tie-in book is indeed print exclusive, but the Avengers book (is it a movie tie-in) is not: https://www.comixology.com/Avengers-Ope ... GRpdGlvbnM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Of course I'm "blocked" in a sense as I don't have a house to store the comics and I can't foster a relationship with LCS because there is no such concept of "L" for me. And I must say voting with wallet is usually useless, and extremely useless in this case: should I vote by not buying high-priced copies of LOtG through other means (like Midtown Comics price), or should I vote by not buying Book of Death which is what Valiant is trying to sell right?

I'll admit that I'm one confused individual though because at some point the whole thing just looks like a job instead of hobbies/entertainment.

If you want it, you will have the opportunity to buy it. Period. Whether it makes fiscal sense for you is for you to decide. From what has been said, Valiant is trying to bring in new readers - not sell more copies of one specific book. They want books on the shelf so someone has the opportunity to discover something new.

Even if you're living in your car, I would have a hard time believing you can't make room for 4 comic books.

Making a book rare isn't going to bring in new readers. Neither is 'trying' to convince shop owners to put it on the shelves using incentives.

You want new readers? Make issue #1 of Book of Death $1. Unity #0 was free and it helped to bring in a ton of readers.

I would agree with an argument that this incentive is designed to get people excited about collecting (which is very important to the industry) and it's also designed to get people into comic shops (which is also very important because this industry lacks a mainstream distribution process like supermarkets etc.).

Actually, it may get a few people excited about collecting, based on the ratio, but it has already, also got a fair few quite irritated or annoyed: based on no same-day digital route, no collected edition treatment.

[leonmallett]

My LCS said they would order 25 (up from their usual 10 for Valiant #1's), however, the LEGENDS book would set me back $97.50 as I would have to buy 15 copies of BOOK OF DEATH at $6.50ea (the cost of comics in Australia).

I would love to have this comic but will not pay nearly $100 for 24pgs. I was hoping my LCS would let me pay an at-cost price for additional orders for LEGENDS and then return what they didn't sell.

That is so short sided, makes me cringe

That is how it is in the international market, because returnable does not really mean much. And also, the comic-book-store-going public is so small, and mostly Marvel and DC die-hards, that putting a physical copy of Book of Death on the shelf will not really mean much.

Yes. While I can see Ed has neatly laid out his perspective, as well as his initial apprehensions, it is really just relevant to one region. I think those apprehensions about impact and availablity are multiplied in context in other regions.

[leonmallett]

Why then give speculators a story that only they could get? It's like they are forcing readers to spend like a speculator.

Why not let the market decide. We may find this book is much more affordable than we expect.

I don't understand getting worked up over something before it has even happened This comment is not directed at you erwinrafael, but in general).

Because its a damn sight easier to encourage valiant to print a proper size print run in the first place.

I don't think so. I cannot see this decision being walked back, and honestly, this is one of the biggest mis-steps VEI have made IMHO.

[leonmallett]

I can understand all of the comments in this thread.
Honestly I can.

But.....
One thing VEI has not had is heat on a back issue. Not a hard to find variant, there are a few of those ( but you can get the inside story easy, just not he specific cover).

But they do not have any heat, nor have they had any on any back issue they have released.
THEY NEED it! Maybe this is the way they can get it. ...

Why do they need 'heat' on back issues? I fail to see the logic in that since it is an after market that is beyond their chain.

Because right or wrong it draws in speculators and hopefully some of them become readers. A lot of people won't even give Valiant a chance because their back issues hold no value. If their back issues heat up speculators will push them. It's all about word of mouth.

Except that those speculators for this specific book are 4% or less (assuming some people do get multiple copies...) of the base book readership. Hardly staggering growth, and if they are speculating, then they are not really setting out to read are they, since speculation will require that book remains as pristine as possible, right?

[Paul Nolan]

It seems if I wanted my comic supplier to order it, it would cost me £43.50 ($63.70 at the exchange rate at this second).

[leonmallett]

It seems if I wanted my comic supplier to order it, it would cost me £43.50 ($63.70 at the exchange rate at this second).

Yep. Seems like such a poor move to me. There are those that defend it, but the fact is the market varies so much by region effectively has an impact on readers who have been supporting VEI since its inception through their custom, yet will effectively be disenfranchised when it comes to accessing this story in a contemporaneously relevant way. Short-sighted move on the surface by VEI IMHO.

[Paul Nolan]

It seems if I wanted my comic supplier to order it, it would cost me £43.50 ($63.70 at the exchange rate at this second).

Yep. Seems like such a poor move to me. There are those that defend it, but the fact is the market varies so much by region effectively has an impact on readers who have been supporting VEI since its inception through their custom, yet will effectively be disenfranchised when it comes to accessing this story in a contemporaneously relevant way. Short-sighted move on the surface by VEI IMHO.

and its £2 per page just for issue #1, how much for the rest of the series?

I'm feeling seriously disenfranchised by Valiant right now.... this is not how to treat someone who buys all 9 of their releases every month

[Intrepidxc]

Guys, lets be constructive about the issues with Legends of the Geomancer. Shoot VEI and email with your concerns and your perspectives as a buyer/fan. We truly don't know VEIs rationale for releasing LOG the way they are. Who knows maybe they didn't really think about international customers. For someone in the US it is fairly easy to get LOG (even more so with Ed's deal). VEI may have just not thought about the international impacts.

[Paul Nolan]

I have sent the following to their inquiries e-mail

Since X-O Manowar #1 three years ago, I have preordered and purchased every single story that Valiant has released. I say story as I don't buy comics to collect, I buy them to read digest and keep to read again. I don't buy incentive covers.

To say that I am disheartened that you're essentially placing barriers in my way to get to read the Book of Death: Legends of the Geomancer is an understatement. Especially when your initiatives have been so fan friendly up until now.

As Book of Death: Legends of the Geomancer is tied to pre-orders of Book of Death, it will cost me £43.50 to read it (roughly $65) or I miss part of the Book of Death story.

I understand Book of Death is returnable, and this gives added confidence for retailers to place orders. But not every comic I shop in the world can handle returnable comics in the same way, in fact I have been told by people that Diamond UK work in a different way to Diamond in the US. I believe there will be people who do not know about the way it is tied to Book and Death and will be disenfranchised if they go to a shop on release week only to find they can not pick up the book with their normal Valiant Order.

Please Please PLEASE reconsider the way you are distributing this book to make sure everyone who wants to buy and read the book can.

Yours in hope

[leonmallett]

Guys, lets be constructive about the issues with Legends of the Geomancer. Shoot VEI and email with your concerns and your perspectives as a buyer/fan. We truly don't know VEIs rationale for releasing LOG the way they are. Who knows maybe they didn't really think about international customers. For someone in the US it is fairly easy to get LOG (even more so with Ed's deal). VEI may have just not thought about the international impacts.

With the information that is available, I am not sure how much can be 'constructively' done as I cannot see a walk-back of the decision. It may be that there is a second phase - a second printing - that would alleviate all concerns, but that isn't clear yet is it?

I have now emailed VEI, and wait to see if they do respond, and if so, what they have to say.

[Tim]

DCBS has the book for $1.99!!

There's a limit of 5 at that price and then they're 35% off!!

[leonmallett]

DCBS has the book for $1.99!!

There's a limit of 5 at that price and then they're 35% off!!

Thanks for the notification Tim.

[Paul Nolan]

DCBS has the book for $1.99!!

There's a limit of 5 at that price and then they're 35% off!!

Have some shops not been notified about the tie in regulations for purchase.?

Sounds like someone has cocked up there.

[DirtbagSailor]

DCBS has the book for $1.99!!

There's a limit of 5 at that price and then they're 35% off!!

Have some shops not been notified about the tie in regulations for purchase.?

Sounds like someone has cocked up there.

I placed an order for this (of course) but fully expect that DCBS will contact me shortly to tell me there has been an issue with my order.

Eithter that, or they will eat the cost and break the Valiant record for single book orders (Book Of Death) lol!

[Paul Nolan]

Yes, they'll massively break the record of books returned too. 500 copies of lotg (easily manageable if people take up the ordering 5 option) means 12500 copies of Book of Death.

I know Dcbs are big, but.... Sheesh

[lorddunlow]

I'm happy that DCBS has them priced affordably, but that is clearly only possible because of full returnability and 80% retailer discount.

Will Book of Death #2-4 be returnable and discounted as well, you think? If not, then those will be more expensive and harder to get. My LCS may agree for #1 because of the returnability, but they won't take a chance on 9 unsold copies of #2-4 just to make me happy.