The Valiant #4 Discussion

greg · Post by **greg** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:52 pm

Oh, and because I just HAVE TO say it...

Help us younger Gilad Anni-Padda... you're our only hope!

bygranddesign · Post by **bygranddesign** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:11 pm

greg wrote:Future Gilad could have sent that Geomancer to the past any time... but he waited until the Immortal Enemy was near the Boon.

Did the Boon kill the Immortal Enemy, and is the Geomancer now "Boon-powered" by the life-force of the Immortal Enemy?

Did Gilad allow his own "Eternal" life to be taken by the Boon as well?

Is this Geomancer actually an Immortal Eternal Geomancer, with the life-force of BOTH of them inside her?

Not sure the answers to these question ..but they are interesting fodder for the future

This will also go back to how time travelling will work

If she is immortal - would she show up for that future Gilad-IE smack down that was taking place?

Or would that be a paradox?

If she gained her powers from them ..but intervenes in that fight - the time continuum will like blow up and stuff..

Or did time splinter off .... this new timeline now having this new Geomancer shapes events differently so maybe the future where Gilad faces off against IE will be very different then the one that looked pretty bleak in these pages

bygranddesign · Post by **bygranddesign** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:13 pm

greg wrote:Oh, and because I just HAVE TO say it...

Help us younger Gilad Anni-Padda... you're our only hope!

yeah i was thinking the same thing when i saw that scene..

greg · Post by **greg** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:20 pm

IF the Boon gave Immortal/Eternal life to the new Geomancer (who doesn't have a name yet... that might be important --- see below)

AND IF the Geomancer girl in 2015 is going to age very slowly due to her Boon-given immortality...

AND we have seen a Geomancer named... Geomancer... (evidently)... in Rai #7 who is older (grown up) captured in 4001 Japan.

SO...

Same girl?

bygranddesign · Post by **bygranddesign** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:28 pm

Yep ... agree ... could be the same girl

geocarr · Post by **geocarr** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:57 pm

dornwolf wrote:Just had a thought Kay could be brought back to life. Merely use the same way that Clay was saved over in VH1

Is VEI a comic universe where dead is dead? Unfortunately for Kay, I hope so.

jkingman · Post by **jkingman** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:24 pm

BugsySig wrote:As I think about this, it's quite possible that Kay's death could become the VEI equivalent to the death of Tohru in Unity.

Only a handful of issues, tons of potential, killed off "too soon" and always remembered as the "best" version of a legacy character to which all other versions are to be compared.

jkingman · Post by **jkingman** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:29 pm

I am going to ECCC this weekend, Lemire and Kindt will be there...

if anyone has any questions, let me know, I'll write them down and ask. I don't know if I'll get any answers...but a few weeks ago at a signing in Portland, Matt Kindt was there and I told him we were wondering and guessing what could be in the box...and he asked if I wanted to know...I said no, because it was so close to being out...so who knows what beans they will be willing to spill

BugsySig · Post by **BugsySig** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:31 pm

bygranddesign wrote:
greg wrote:Future Gilad could have sent that Geomancer to the past any time... but he waited until the Immortal Enemy was near the Boon.

Did the Boon kill the Immortal Enemy, and is the Geomancer now "Boon-powered" by the life-force of the Immortal Enemy?

Did Gilad allow his own "Eternal" life to be taken by the Boon as well?

Is this Geomancer actually an Immortal Eternal Geomancer, with the life-force of BOTH of them inside her?

Not sure the answers to these question ..but they are interesting fodder for the future

This will also go back to how time travelling will work

If she is immortal - would she show up for that future Gilad-IE smack down that was taking place?

Or would that be a paradox?

If she gained her powers from them ..but intervenes in that fight - the time continuum will like blow up and stuff..

Or did time splinter off .... this new timeline now having this new Geomancer shapes events differently so maybe the future where Gilad faces off against IE will be very different then the one that looked pretty bleak in these pages

In response to Greg: I wouldn't say Gilad waited until the IM was near the Boon so much as he lured him there by placing the Geomancer in the (stasis?) box. But, if Gilad used the Boon on himself, that might explain his aged appearance in the Eternal Emperor arc. Then once the IE was also drained and defeated, Gilad goes about living out the rest of his days?

I had the same thought about the future Geomancer. Especially since this girl at least appears to be Boon-powered. VEI has done a pretty good job with the timing of these releases to play out a larger story (ie. Bloodshot Reborn launching next, Unity Ninjak issue prior to Ninjak #1, introducing Ivar and time travel prior to The Valiant #4) so it might well connect to Kindt's Geomancer in Rai.

As for the time travel element: If we are to believe Ivar, what is done cannot be undone. So Gilad always sent the Geomancer back in time, and the Dark Ages always arrive.

BTW I still maintain Gilad has Ivar deliver the Box through time. The only other explanation which makes sense to me is that the Box itself is a time machine which he used the Boon to power. But someone left a message for Neville to find and Ivar is the logical candidate, even if unseen in The Valiant.

BugsySig · Post by **BugsySig** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:35 pm

jkingman wrote:I am going to ECCC this weekend, Lemire and Kindt will be there...

if anyone has any questions, let me know, I'll write them down and ask. I don't know if I'll get any answers...but a few weeks ago at a signing in Portland, Matt Kindt was there and I told him we were wondering and guessing what could be in the box...and he asked if I wanted to know...I said no, because it was so close to being out...so who knows what beans they will be willing to spill

I suppose you could ask them to clarify exactly what the role of the Boon was in all of this. If its not a major plot point they plan on using in the future, they might just tell you.

Bone-A-Fach-ee · Post by **Bone-A-Fach-ee** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:58 pm

Too too many questions for me to write them all out. But, lots of stuff I didn't see coming. Loved Bloodshot get his neck twisted around backwards. That was pretty rad.
Is dead, dead?
Will Bloodshot get his nanites back?
Boon?
Rai 7 girl? Me thinks so.

Kay. dead is dead? I hope not

Good read.

hunter_peterson · Post by **hunter_peterson** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:30 pm

blujay wrote:
Sir Sandrick wrote:Terrible typo on bottom of page 11 "Well, well. Aren't you are a resilient little soldier?" Made me reread it and took me out of the nail-biting moment. Oooops! Other than that, just a phenomenal read and great lead in for what is to come.

Since this is a part of the main timeline now, it would be funny to see Q and W and others involved in the big battle getting their paychecks from MI 6 or something. Just to acknowledge that they were there and experienced some messed up stuff.
To be honest, I didn't notice the extra "are" until you pointed it out

And I agree, I really want to know how they got roped into fighting the Valiant Universe's ultimate force of evil

You know showing people typos like that is part of an autism spectrum test? Most people autocorrect what they read and can't pick up on that stuff without looking specifically for it, but that's often not the case for autistic people because they process what they see much more directly. Fun fact.

His issue was great, but also kind of a bummer. I loved Kay McHenry and hope she's only mostly dead, somehow. Sad events. The new Geomancer looks interesting, though, and provides a hook for an Eternal Warrior series. We don't have a mentor book at Valiant, but we might now.

depluto · Post by **depluto** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:35 pm

So the new Geomancer's first appearance is Rai 7?

<tiptoes back to LCS ...>

jeremycoe · Post by **jeremycoe** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:43 pm

Did Kay die at the exact moment the box "timer" went off. Is it impossible to have two Geomancers the same time?

hunter_peterson · Post by **hunter_peterson** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:46 pm

bygranddesign wrote:
BugsySig wrote:
For a second I really thought Kay was going to survive just because she actually fought back, and I'm really disappointed that she was killed. That character was one of my favorites and had hardly been tapped to her full potential yet. Perhaps her appearance in Bloodshot Reborn will be more than a figment of BS's imagination? Maybe her "soul" was actually absorbed by the Nanites?
This is an interesting question ... what did she actually do to the nanites?

Did she destroy them?

Or did she just turn them off?

If she just turned them off ... maybe she imprinted herself upon the nanites?

We know that the nanites consume the dying person to capture the soul ... but Kay being a geomancer might be able to transfer her soul into the nanites (bypass the consuming part) - and maybe thats what she meant by her purpose.

Her purpose is to help Ray(bloodshot) have a new life. Kay will be another soul within the nanites ..except she will control them so Ray could be normal.

She will essentially be the new Goldie boy -

That would be a great way to honor the character, IMHO. And she could even return, eventually, somehow.

bygranddesign · Post by **bygranddesign** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:52 pm

depluto wrote:So the new Geomancer's first appearance is Rai 7?

<tiptoes back to LCS ...>

LOL

Keith · Post by **Keith** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:48 pm

Speculation on the book that was in the box with the new Geomancer? Easy answer would be its the Book of the Geomancer, but I wonder if it might be something else? Say, a history of the world up to that point?

jmatt · Post by **jmatt** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:34 pm

Great issue and wrap up.

I think the fact that people are upset over Kay's death is a weird sign of success. As my daughter, a budding author, readaholic, English major in college told me recently: "A good writer creates a character everyone likes, and then kills him."

Think Lori Grimes in Walking Dead. Big stories have big consequences.

And I think we have our first VEI superhero of Chinese descent in the new Geomancer.

Do you see the panel where the IE has bodies kind of attached to his torso, in the future? I think those are the lives that the Boon imparted to the new Geomancer -- not sure if we should infer it's a handful of lives (I count six) attached to him, or does he have many thousands incorporated into his being over the millenia?

As for Kay's spirit and the nanites, I think she embedded herself within them, controls them and may still be able 'speak' to Bloodshot as an inner monologue.

jmatt · Post by **jmatt** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:38 pm

Oh, and I forgot to mention this: You'll notice the countdown clock is still running even as the box is opened. So I presume the countdown was for the 'awakening of the new Geomancer, not the opening of the box.

But what, exactly, defeated the IE? The mere presence of another Geomancer? Or does killing a Geomancer (Kay) merely send him back into hibernation of sorts?

And the book is definitely the Book of Geomancer.

Oh, and the Boon? No Ouroboros? How did it escape the loop between 10,000 BC and the end of the AA arc? I'm just glad to see it's still out there!

pixierosa · Post by **pixierosa** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:00 pm

Keith wrote:Our very own pixierosa submitted a great review over at Valiant Central:

http://valiantcentral.com/review-the-valiant-4/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for the nod!

"Guh" was my original response - I had the feeling Kay wouldn't survive, but it still hurt. She was just starting to grow and was taken away too soon.

Blood of Heroes · Post by **Blood of Heroes** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:22 pm

Poor Kay.

agent_graves · Post by **agent_graves** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:23 pm

Damn, I liked Kay, I hope Lemire gets to write her replacement, (the little Asian kid) he does a great job writing kid protagonist. Overall, this mini was pretty decent, Gilad, didn't have a good showing, but it set us up for some interesting things to come in Bloodshot:Reborn, in hindsight, the Valiant, was more about Bloodshot, than anyone else, even Kay...

Jace · Post by **Jace** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:15 pm

jmatt wrote:Oh, and I forgot to mention this: You'll notice the countdown clock is still running even as the box is opened. So I presume the countdown was for the 'awakening of the new Geomancer, not the opening of the box.

But what, exactly, defeated the IE? The mere presence of another Geomancer? Or does killing a Geomancer (Kay) merely send him back into hibernation of sorts?

And the book is definitely the Book of Geomancer.

Oh, and the Boon? No Ouroboros? How did it escape the loop between 10,000 BC and the end of the AA arc? I'm just glad to see it's still out there!

Totally agree that the loss of Kay was a gut-punch. She was in my top 5 favorite VEI characters for sure. I agree with JMATT though. I believe at least some of who she was is going to survive in the nanites and she will in some way be able to communicate with Bloodshot in some fashion.

David_Cody · Post by **David_Cody** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:52 pm

greg wrote:Future Gilad could have sent that Geomancer to the past any time... but he waited until the Immortal Enemy was near the Boon.

Did the Boon kill the Immortal Enemy, and is the Geomancer now "Boon-powered" by the life-force of the Immortal Enemy?

Did Gilad allow his own "Eternal" life to be taken by the Boon as well?

Is this Geomancer actually an Immortal Eternal Geomancer, with the life-force of BOTH of them inside her?

Whoa, you derive some great points/questions.

I think it is pretty apparent that Bloodshot will be back, hence the new series. How he will get the nanites back, will be an interesting story, to be sure.

Bone-A-Fach-ee · Post by **Bone-A-Fach-ee** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:41 am

jmatt wrote:
Do you see the panel where the IE has bodies kind of attached to his torso, in the future? I think those are the lives that the Boon imparted to the new Geomancer -- not sure if we should infer it's a handful of lives (I count six) attached to him, or does he have many thousands incorporated into his being over the millenia?

I was pretty sure those were past Geomancers. I recognized the topless one

But Kay was in there too. Which to me was a strange spoiler just moments before it actually happened.

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