Has Anybody Dropped the Big Two for Valiant?

[All-Comic]

I feel like Convergence is going to be the proverbial straw and I'll just be done with that because, come on

But what's wrong with Convergence? It's just a break from the New 52 for two months, then everything goes back to "normal." I don't think it's even crossing over into any of the ongoing books. It's not like Secret Wars at all.

I doubt it's that simple. Feel like they're going to try and make some of the old stuff stick that they wish they didn't get rid of when they flipped to New 52. Overall I'm just am sick of DC and have been for a while and I'm tired of gimmicks and games and poor quality and general terribleness.

[dornwolf]

I feel like Convergence is going to be the proverbial straw and I'll just be done with that because, come on

But what's wrong with Convergence? It's just a break from the New 52 for two months, then everything goes back to "normal." I don't think it's even crossing over into any of the ongoing books. It's not like Secret Wars at all.

I doubt it's that simple. Feel like they're going to try and make some of the old stuff stick that they wish they didn't get rid of when they flipped to New 52. Overall I'm just am sick of DC and have been for a while and I'm tired of gimmicks and games and poor quality and general terribleness.

It literally was I believe to be a basic break from the Nu-52 so that they could cover the move from the east coast to the west coast. Then Marvel went and announced Secret Wars and then DC decided that anything you can do that we're already doing except not to such a huge degree we can do to and better.

[JonesyAZ]

I have dropped the big two, with only two DC-centric exceptions:

Sandman: Overture
The Multiversity

[omega_override]

Not entirely. There are maybe a select handful of titles that have been keeping me interested in Marvel and DC. I have very eclectic tastes when it comes to comics and Valiant (as well as other indie publishers) is probably the sole company that consistently helps me to scratch it.

I like big, dumb action

I like intrigue (namely political)

I like suspense

I like the paranormal

I like drama

but above all of them, I just like a good, competently written story that makes me care about the cast of characters that the particular comic revolves around and Valiant does that better than anyone else I know

[lorddunlow]

I have dropped the big two, with only two DC-centric exceptions:

Sandman: Overture
The Multiversity

Holy crap! I forgot that I have all of Overture to read now! That's what I'll be reading as soon as I get settled in for the night...

[doodlebird]

Just a side point. This is the VF site, so if you aren't reading at least 95% of Valiant, and yet you buy a bunch of other company titles, you need may need to rethink calling yourself a fan (and tun in your members card ).

[omega_override]

This is the VF site, so if you aren't reading at least 95% of Valiant, and yet you buy a bunch of other company titles, you need may need to rethink calling yourself a fan (and turn in your members card ).

Then why bother having discussions about Marvel, DC, and other indie titles then?

[lorddunlow]

Just a side point. This is the VF site, so if you aren't reading at least 95% of Valiant, and yet you buy a bunch of other company titles, you need may need to rethink calling yourself a fan (and tun in your members card ).

There are lots of members who love the old stuff, but don't care for the new stuff for various reasons. (I prefer VEI to VH1, myself.) It wouldn't be fair to exclude them.

I love what VEI is putting out, but I have to admit, that as they continue to put out more minis and less ongoings with increasingly looser continuity, I am beginning to lose that early enthusiasm I had for the line. Now, I'm about 3 months behind in my reading of VEI, so I may turn a big 180 after I catch up, but there is a reason that I'm falling behind: I'm not enjoying the books as much.

I liked Shadowman under Jordan. I liked Pak EW. I loved A&A. It seems like VEI keeps going to the Q&W side of the universe for which I do not care. I'm very excited that Dr. Mirage will be continuing, but I really would like an ongoing story. Not the broken down minis. If we're to not have an overarching continuous set of stories, then lets just go back to silver age one issue complete stories.

[GammaJosh]

...you need may need to rethink calling yourself a fan (and tun in your members card ).

My Varied Valiant Viewing Society card?! Never!!

[TheFerg714]

I feel like Convergence is going to be the proverbial straw and I'll just be done with that because, come on

But what's wrong with Convergence? It's just a break from the New 52 for two months, then everything goes back to "normal." I don't think it's even crossing over into any of the ongoing books. It's not like Secret Wars at all.

I doubt it's that simple. Feel like they're going to try and make some of the old stuff stick that they wish they didn't get rid of when they flipped to New 52. Overall I'm just am sick of DC and have been for a while and I'm tired of gimmicks and games and poor quality and general terribleness.

B-but I'm pretty sure DC has stated that Convergence isn't something that's gonna stick around forever... Of course, time will tell. We'll never really know until June rolls around, but DC seems pretty heavily invested in the New 52. It'd be silly of them to just drop it randomly.

[GammaJosh]

I love what VEI is putting out, but I have to admit, that as they continue to put out more minis and less ongoings with increasingly looser continuity, I am beginning to lose that early enthusiasm I had for the line. Now, I'm about 3 months behind in my reading of VEI, so I may turn a big 180 after I catch up, but there is a reason that I'm falling behind: I'm not enjoying the books as much.

I've been thinking about this a bit lately. As much as I agree with you and would prefer to read ongoing series, if we run with the theory that Valiant is being financed by movie producers looking to develop IP for movies down the road, it doesn't make much sense for them to publish ongoing titles past a certain point. You could probably sum up Harbinger 1-25 in a single movie. I see Imperium as a sequel treatment. But what would be the point of continuing Harbinger to issue #100 before a single movie has been made? Only the origin and the first story arc (or first really good story arc) would make it into the movie. Beyond that, Valiant is better off serving up more and different movie treatments with different characters. The backers' best value is for Valiant to be an idea-factory, and the basic idea of Harbinger for example is already complete. The current publishing plan makes a lot of sense to me through that lens...no pun intended.

[lorddunlow]

I love what VEI is putting out, but I have to admit, that as they continue to put out more minis and less ongoings with increasingly looser continuity, I am beginning to lose that early enthusiasm I had for the line. Now, I'm about 3 months behind in my reading of VEI, so I may turn a big 180 after I catch up, but there is a reason that I'm falling behind: I'm not enjoying the books as much.

I've been thinking about this a bit lately. As much as I agree with you and would prefer to read ongoing series, if we run with the theory that Valiant is being financed by movie producers looking to develop IP for movies down the road, it doesn't make much sense for them to publish ongoing titles past a certain point. You could probably sum up Harbinger 1-25 in a single movie. I see Imperium as a sequel treatment. But what would be the point of continuing Harbinger to issue #100 before a single movie has been made? Only the origin and the first story arc (or first really good story arc) would make it into the movie. Beyond that, Valiant is better off serving up more and different movie treatments with different characters. The backers' best value is for Valiant to be an idea-factory, and the basic idea of Harbinger for example is already complete. The current publishing plan makes a lot of sense to me through that lens...no pun intended.

Then why would they be any better than Marvel? (This is me playing Devil's Advocate. I mostly enjoy VEI more than Valiant.) I read comics because I like comics. Not because they might make cool movies from them. You're sort of hitting the nail on the head of why I'm becoming slightly disillusioned with VEI.

[All-Comic]

I feel like Convergence is going to be the proverbial straw and I'll just be done with that because, come on

But what's wrong with Convergence? It's just a break from the New 52 for two months, then everything goes back to "normal." I don't think it's even crossing over into any of the ongoing books. It's not like Secret Wars at all.

I doubt it's that simple. Feel like they're going to try and make some of the old stuff stick that they wish they didn't get rid of when they flipped to New 52. Overall I'm just am sick of DC and have been for a while and I'm tired of gimmicks and games and poor quality and general terribleness.

B-but I'm pretty sure DC has stated that Convergence isn't something that's gonna stick around forever... Of course, time will tell. We'll never really know until June rolls around, but DC seems pretty heavily invested in the New 52. It'd be silly of them to just drop it randomly.

No, not dropping New 52, just trying to right some wrongs, cram some old *SQUEE* into the new. Make it a big mess (bigger mess) kinda thing.

...you need may need to rethink calling yourself a fan (and tun in your members card ).

My Varied Valiant Viewing Society card?! Never!!

Can this card be a thing please?

[doodlebird]

...you need may need to rethink calling yourself a fan (and tun in your members card ).

My Varied Valiant Viewing Society card?! Never!!

We need to make one of those !

[doodlebird]

For more of why I like Valiant is that I want one cohesive universe that I can collect all of. Ultimates was good for a while, New Universe was almost good for its run. Ultraverse was fun. Broadway comics...
And couple more I'm sure. Heck Marvel had it going for quite some time, and they were just feeling their way around then. So far Valiant has had very good writing and art, and nice overall editing and progress plan. I hope it continues, and like I did for many of the above listed, I'm here for the long haul. Also doean't hurt that I fell in love with this universe when it was first released as well, and I feel this new one is just as good and with a smoother updated feel.
And I do really enjoy the movies Marvel has been doing, and the X-men from Fox is pretty good. I hope Valiant gets to make some as well. And I feel some of the readiness for the movies successes is all the reworks and reboots in the comics that have kept us geeks from being too harsh on the movieverse's continuities.
VEI, VEI, VEI ... !

[TheFerg714]

I really don't feel like the comics are being made just for the sake of future movies. Reboots and renumberings are the name of the game in comics now. At least Valiant is doing it in a tasteful manner. Dysart has said in interviews that the story of Harbinger was finished. He didn't see it as a story that could go on forever, he saw it as a 25 issue story. Bloodshot clearly needed a reboot, the series wasn't going anywhere. Plus it's getting a huge shift in it's creative team. I'm less satisfied with Archer & Armstrong ending, but at least we get the spiritual successor in Timewalker. Not every ongoing has to go on forever. It would be silly to continue the ongoings when a) the story is over, or b) it's not making any money.

[cray_ws]

Just a side point. This is the VF site, so if you aren't reading at least 95% of Valiant, and yet you buy a bunch of other company titles, you need may need to rethink calling yourself a fan (and tun in your members card ).

Please tell me you're joking!? Reading comics is not about picking sides or cheerleading a publisher. You either enjoy comics or you don't, there's no line in the sand when it comes to brand.

[leonmallett]

Just a side point. This is the VF site, so if you aren't reading at least 95% of Valiant, and yet you buy a bunch of other company titles, you need may need to rethink calling yourself a fan (and tun in your members card ).

There are lots of members who love the old stuff, but don't care for the new stuff for various reasons. (I prefer VEI to VH1, myself.) It wouldn't be fair to exclude them.

I love what VEI is putting out, but I have to admit, that as they continue to put out more minis and less ongoings with increasingly looser continuity, I am beginning to lose that early enthusiasm I had for the line. Now, I'm about 3 months behind in my reading of VEI, so I may turn a big 180 after I catch up, but there is a reason that I'm falling behind: I'm not enjoying the books as much.

I liked Shadowman under Jordan. I liked Pak EW. I loved A&A. It seems like VEI keeps going to the Q&W side of the universe for which I do not care. I'm very excited that Dr. Mirage will be continuing, but I really would like an ongoing story. Not the broken down minis. If we're to not have an overarching continuous set of stories, then lets just go back to silver age one issue complete stories.

[cray_ws]

Not to derail this thread as I thought about starting another so I could discuss the state of Valiant's publishing plan so far. Honestly I do like that the books they have put out have an end. It sorta reminds me of how Vertigo has long limited series. Which is exactly how HARBINGER, ARCHER & ARMSTRONG, and SHADOWMAN series have gone. Except one could argue that A&A did not end conclusively as the other two series. Both HARBINGER and SHADOWMAN wrapped up their series with 3 issue mini series.

Its my personal preference that if Valiant wants to do mini series, they should not use them as a way to cap off a long run. Furthermore I think A 3-4 issue mini series is a hopeless selling point to readers. They would be best to simply put them out as original graphic novels or run back up stories in the main series and later reprint them as trades. The sales for HARBINGERS: OMEGAS and SHADOWMAN: END TIMES probably weren't all that great.

I am a firm believer that an ongoing series in a continuity-verse is root of what causes retcons and reboots. No ongoing title should be able to survive without some heavy marketing to keep it sustainable. A book that is only as good as the marketing is not a story, but an advertisement for gimmicks. I want a good story with beginning, middle and ending. I am not interested in 14 different flavors of X-0 armor variations, or clones of Harbingers from another timeline that take over the book for few issues only to return to status quo. I truly hope this Bloodshot reborn series is not another reset and re-imagination of the character. I hope there's a genuine reason for this new series, which at first glance appears to be a renumbering if you drop the "reborn" moniker. I haven't read THE VALIANT yet, so I should probably do that before I pass anymore judgments.

Sorry for digressing here.

[omega_override]

Please tell me you're joking!? Reading comics is not about picking sides or cheerleading a publisher. You either enjoy comics or you don't, there's no line in the sand when it comes to brand.

You'd be surprised at the sheer amount of "brand loyalty" some people have. It's honestly the same way with video games

[GammaJosh]

Please tell me you're joking!? Reading comics is not about picking sides or cheerleading a publisher. You either enjoy comics or you don't, there's no line in the sand when it comes to brand.

You'd be surprised at the sheer amount of "brand loyalty" some people have. It's honestly the same way with video games

I am totally like that with Marvel, but to be fair it was more a matter of wanting to dive headfirst into a universe, get as absorbed into the lore and continuity as possible, and simply not being able to afford to do that for both Marvel and DC. Valiant's smaller line (and the fact that I was able to "gateway drug" into it with their modest initial launch of two titles) and the fact that they were starting from scratch is what drew me in to begin with. Of course now I am totally in and if they started published 50 titles each month I would probably do whatever it took to keep up with them!

[omega_override]

I am totally like that with Marvel, but to be fair it was more a matter of wanting to dive headfirst into a universe, get as absorbed into the lore and continuity as possible, and simply not being able to afford to do that for both Marvel and DC.

I think that Marvel is doing some really great things with Superior Ironman and Ant Man and Deathlok are looking really promising. But to paraphrase something Peter David said, a lot of Marvel fanatics these days are just interested in big events like Spider-Verse and the upcoming Secret Wars and not good storytelling. Now I'm sure this is just David blowing off steam from X-Factor getting cancelled, but it does show where the company's prorities actually lie

[doodlebird]

There are plenty of good reads out there, but I just don't have the time (or desire) to delve all over. So Valiant is delivering what I like, and so far my trust in their development have been rewarded. Will they always be as excellent, can't say; but I think i can be assured that they will always be at least as good as anybody's other universes, and that will suit me just fine. Sure they may not always have as much tangent things such as Saga or such, but then they may even find a way for that. I like the feel of the old Marvel when Stan was cheerleader and the MMMS and such. I kinda get that feel now here, and with what the modern environ offers, it is fun.
M____ Valiant P______ !

[x-omatic]

Other than everything Valiant this is what I am buying and reading.

Image
Spread
Walking Dead
Invincible
Shutter
Trees
COWL
Revival
Outcast
Nail-biter
East of West

Dark Horse
Usagi Yojimbo Senso

IDW
Locke & Key

Other than a random issue here and there I don't buy Marvel of DC books

[omega_override]

Dark Horse
Usagi Yojimbo Senso

IDW
Locke & Key

Two comments:
-Only thing I read from Dark Horse is Usagi Yojimbo. It amazes me with it's longevity and how it's a consistently good read for such a simple story. I also really wish they would bring back The Mask

-Only thing I read from IDW is TMNT. Really, REALLY solid read (Mars Attacks Popeye was also hella fun). Their main Judge Dredd book is repulsive, especially their "color classics" because Rebellion/2000 AD is already re-printing classic JD stories in America. It just doesn't make any drokkin' sense and it reminds me of the time when Ted Turner was being a cocky SOB and re-colorizing old movies
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