RAI #0 Regular vs Glossy: MYSTERY SOLVED!

Vault-Keeper · Post by **Vault-Keeper** » Thu May 06, 2004 3:49 pm

As promised, here is a visual comparison between the two issues. I tried to get a shine off the regular issue in photo #1, but couldn't really catch anything. Photos #2 & 3 are of one of my Glossy versions. I asked Bob Layton about how this Glossy version came about, & he had NO idea about it, & had never seen one.---Steve G

Here ya go:

Regular Rai #0:
http://pic2.picturetrail.com/VOL36/4476 ... 014345.jpg

Glossy Rai #0 (a):
http://pic2.picturetrail.com/VOL36/4476 ... 014410.jpg

Glossy Rai #0 (b):
http://pic2.picturetrail.com/VOL36/4476 ... 014459.jpg

ckb · Post by **ckb** » Thu May 06, 2004 4:36 pm

Well Done!

(But you still stink for getting the statue.)

Zero · Post by **Zero** » Thu May 06, 2004 6:54 pm

The glossy is just a late run of the regular. For one reason or another they changed paper on the reorders. I am on the understanding that it was unintentional. Many here consider it a sort of second print. I personally feel that it's much more desirable because of it's rarity...especially in high grade. ~Erskine

Vault-Keeper · Post by **Vault-Keeper** » Fri May 07, 2004 5:44 pm

OK....now that everyone can see the difference in cover stock, how many out there have one besides me?

If there was a 'VARIA-tion' in the cover stock (whether intentional or not), doesn't it make this Glossy version a 'VARIAnt' or at least a PRINTER'S ERROR on the same lines as Bloodshot #0 Platinum?

Mind you, I'm not comparing the quantity or value of BS #0 Plat to Rai #0 Glossy, just comparing them on the same grounds that they are both printing errors which caused unintentional variations. Any thoughts?....----Steve G

Mr.V · Post by **Mr.V** » Fri May 07, 2004 7:57 pm

I pulled two copies out from "hibernation" last week. Both are easily 9.6-9.8, straight from the case to the mylar. I could have more, not sure exactly how many I still have left. I wish I could remember, for oldtimes' sake, what I was originally selling these for.....the former prices for some of the "hot" Valiant books escape me. This book was DEFINATELY NOT an easy one to come by though...I dont think I've ever seen more than a handful or so.

Vault-Keeper · Post by **Vault-Keeper** » Fri May 14, 2004 9:35 am

RAI #0 GLOSSY: MYSTERY SOLVED!

In a recent correspondance with Kevin Van Hook, this is what he wrote about the origins of the Rai #0 Glossy variant:

"As for Rai #0 Glossy--I BELIEVE (if memory serves) that those were a relatively short run with different paper that Fred Pierce was experimenting with to avoid the scuffing (black smudging) that often accompanies a white cover. It wasn't really a different release. Just part of the same run on different stock.

Around that time, Valiant bought its own paper stock and put it on the Printers' Floors to use. It was a cost-cutting measure because of the bulk we began to print.

Best,
KV"

I have corresponded with Greg, & from an observation he made when he visited "The Warehouse" last month, we have determined that there are actually three different versions of this issue.

1. There is the normal, regular version, which everyone is pretty familar with.

2. The second version I'm describing as the "Bleeding Logo" version. This version has smudges &/or bleeding in the black ink of the logo.

The three most common ways of identifying this variant/error are:
1-the bottom right border of the logo shows a bleed over, instead of a straight, clean line;

2-the Japanese letters show black bleed-over; &

3-the "TM" symbol shows bleed over.
Copies of this version can vary in degrees of flubs. I have three out of 13 of these that look quite horrible, with the "TM" all but completely bled over.

3. The third version of this issue is the Glossy version, which has a much diferent cover stock, as seen in my pics. Both copies I have show NO bleed over, although there is a very light, very small white circle present in this same area of the cover, from something being on the printing plate. I don't know if all Glossy versions have this defect, but both of mine do. It is very small.

Greg or I will try to post some pics of the "Bleeding Logo" version soon. I would like input from the board on who has any of the "Bleeding Logo" or Glossy versions.---Steve G

whetteon · Post by **whetteon** » Fri May 14, 2004 9:56 am

I STILL refuse to acknowledge it as a premium!

So put that in your pipe and smoke it! But I wouldn't turn a blind eye to more comparision pictures

DawgPhan · Post by **DawgPhan** » Fri May 14, 2004 10:55 am

whetteon wrote:I STILL refuse to acknowledge it as a premium! So put that in your pipe and smoke it! But I wouldn't turn a blind eye to more comparision pictures

same here..that is my favorite valiant book and I couldnt care less about it...It is the same book with printing defects...I will never think that a printing defect will increase the value of a book...these are mass produced...there is bound to be defects all the time...It is like when a toy gets made with 2 left arms....who cares...well at least that is how I feel about it...of course if Greg adds it to the list I will be on the lookout for one...

cjv · Post by **cjv** » Fri May 14, 2004 11:14 am

I have to agree - since it was from the same print run (not even considered a second printing) I don't think it should be an official variant. I might be intrested in having one just to compare, but I don't think it should be considered a needed part for a complete collection.

There is no way to know print run, or distribution, or anything like that. With the golds, they were printed separately. With the platinum error, we know exactly how many were printed.

Of course, I also think that newstand/direct version should also be counted the same.

Chris

Vault-Keeper · Post by **Vault-Keeper** » Fri May 14, 2004 11:59 am

At this point, I don't care if Greg adds it to ANY list. I simply wanted to figure out more on this issue & I did. I shared this info for the sake of anyone else out there who ever wondered, like me. Everyone has a different criteria for their version of 100%. If I didn't already have the different versions, I'd still be interested in getting them if the prices were right. But that's just me. I'd like to have a Bloodshot #0 Platinum also, but there's no way I'M paying $700 for it. How the price for it ever soared so high is a mystery to me, regardless of their quantity.---Steve G

chirco606 · Post by **chirco606** » Fri May 14, 2004 12:14 pm

Who do you know that is selling one?

ckb · Post by **ckb** » Fri May 14, 2004 12:22 pm

This just is about how much of a Type-A obsessive-compulsive collector you are. Greg's list is trying to (IMO) encompass one of every officially released Valiant issue.

I think he has parted from this recently by adding the newstand/direct variants to the checklist, without making them their own category.

IMO, we need a base list, as described above, and then add-on lists for the true completists. Categories already include Premuim issues, Valiant Voices, VVSS, and TPBs. We probably want one for "printing variants" or something, that could iclude the Rai 0 versions and the direct/newstand versions.

I don't think we need to be focused on getting 100% across the board on the inventory page. We need to be trying to document and confirm all known issues and variants, and have the information readily available on the site.

cjv wrote:I have to agree - since it was from the same print run (not even considered a second printing) I don't think it should be an official variant. I might be intrested in having one just to compare, but I don't think it should be considered a needed part for a complete collection.

There is no way to know print run, or distribution, or anything like that. With the golds, they were printed separately. With the platinum error, we know exactly how many were printed.

Of course, I also think that newstand/direct version should also be counted the same.

Chris

greg · Post by **greg** » Fri May 14, 2004 1:21 pm

Right now, I see the whole Rai 0 situation as similar to the Rai 3 situation.

A well-centered Rai 3 represents a small percentage of the entire run of Rai 3,
even though it was printed at the same time.
For aesthetic reasons, a well-centered Rai 3 may command a premium
in price above the value of a normal "top-cut" Rai 3.

A "glossy" Rai 0 represents a small percentage of the entire run of Rai 0,
even though it was printed at the same time.
For aesthetic reasons, a "glossy" Rai 0 may command a premium
in price above the value of a normal Rai 0.

Neither "glossy" Rai 0 or "centered" Rai 3 is a separate book from
its 'regular' version... so they are not checklist requirements.
However, I will probably make some changes to the documentation
about their 'existence' on the regular pages of the website.

The 'latest discovery' in the Rai 0 world is the "blurry title" Rai 0.
While a "blurry title" Rai 0 is visually distinct from a regular Rai 0,
this time the visual distinction isn't exactly pleasing "aesthetically".

"Centered" Rai 3 is more attractive to some collectors... may sell for more $.
"Glossy" Rai 0 is more attractive to some collectors... may sell for more $.
"Blurry" Rai 0...? Not really more attractive... so... ?

kryptonitecomics · Post by **kryptonitecomics** » Fri May 14, 2004 1:29 pm

Good info though........I have looked threw stacks of Rai #0's and haven't come across any of the Glossy versions

greg · Post by **greg** » Fri May 14, 2004 1:36 pm

kryptonitecomics wrote:Good info though........I have looked threw stacks of Rai #0's and haven't come across any of the Glossy versions

Did you notice the "blurry" Rai 0's in there? What ratio?

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Fri May 14, 2004 10:17 pm

Mr.V wrote:I pulled two copies out from "hibernation" last week. Both are easily 9.6-9.8, straight from the case to the mylar. I could have more, not sure exactly how many I still have left. I wish I could remember, for oldtimes' sake, what I was originally selling these for.....the former prices for some of the "hot" Valiant books escape me. This book was DEFINATELY NOT an easy one to come by though...I dont think I've ever seen more than a handful or so.

You gotta love that cover. Such an outstanding use of (at the time) shading in the logo. Such a beautiful and stark use of only three 'colors'. Amazing.

And...it has the distinction of being the very last 'super hot' Valiant book ever. Oh, sure, there was buzz around Turok #1, Bloodshot #1, Bloodshot #6 & 7....but Rai #0 was the last one to honestly sell out, and the last regular Valiant book ever to reach $25+ in the aftermarket...a record it held until Unity 2000 #3!

x-omatic · Post by **x-omatic** » Sat May 15, 2004 1:33 am

Here is the breakdown of the 11 Rai #0 I have.
8 regular #0
2 "glossy" #0
1 with "fuzzy" logo

The only way I could tell the "glossy" ones was to have them all opened. All of the books have a "glossy" shine. However 2 of them looked to have more of a shine. The white also seemed brighter. The best way I can explain them would be as if all of them were shinny but some had a matt overspray that dulled them. The paper didn't feel any different and the inside and back covers seemed to look the same. Again the only real area I could tell was in the white on the cover.

pd071 · Post by **pd071** » Sun May 16, 2004 11:32 pm

I just looked at 6 copies I have. I have 4 regular, plain stock paper, and 2 glossy. Of the 2 glossy, one is more white than the other. One of them is almost yellow looking to me. Of those 6, none of them had ink runs.