Harbinger Omegas #3

[jmatt]

On the flip side, I find it interesting, and different. He was a product of the system, and not a heroic person to start with.

The title won't last long with a guy moping about in an invisibility bubble lamenting 'woe is me'.

I agree, having that as an aspect of the character's past gives him more depth, but I'd like to see the guy smile once in awhile. Maybe even get his act together for good.

[jmatt]

VEI's editorial staff seem pretty conscientious about coordinating their various story lines.

Mmm, I disagree. Apart from events, the titles have kinda remained to themselves, and that doesn't really bother me. We never heard about Aric conquering Romania in AA or Harbinger, right?

It's possible Unity will be brought in in some aspect during Imperium, but it won't bother me if they're not.

[erwinrafael]

On the flip side, I find it interesting, and different. He was a product of the system, and not a heroic person to start with.

The title won't last long with a guy moping about in an invisibility bubble lamenting 'woe is me'.

I agree, having that as an aspect of the character's past gives him more depth, but I'd like to see the guy smile once in awhile. Maybe even get his act together for good.

But what if Peter was not actually being set up as the hero? What if he actually is the Destroyer?

[QUARTZ]

But what if Peter was not actually being set up as the hero? What if he actually is the Destroyer?

Could be...I'm thinking we will eventually see more of that.

I thought his attitude was kind of refreshing to see in a comic book. Too often we see characters compelled to become heroes to "protect the city" or whatever for really ridiculous reasons. I thought Peter's reaction to the situation to be appropriate for the character; despite his powers he is still just a teen struggling to make his way. He just wants to be left alone, live a normal life, not be drawn into some unending conflict with some "deity". I enjoyed seeing that reluctance, and Peter's non-violence stance is pretty clever, if not a little selfish...but logical. He wants to end the cycle of violence between him and Harada.

[Tony_H]

Apart from events, the titles have kinda remained to themselves, and that doesn't really bother me. We never heard about Aric conquering Romania in AA or Harbinger, right?

It's possible Unity will be brought in in some aspect during Imperium, but it won't bother me if they're not.

Yep, that's right, and a good point to boot. Armor Hunters were blocking my rear-view mirror! iAy, Dios mio! Estoy loco en la cabeza.

[Keith]

VEI's editorial staff seem pretty conscientious about coordinating their various story lines.

Mmm, I disagree. Apart from events, the titles have kinda remained to themselves, and that doesn't really bother me. We never heard about Aric conquering Romania in AA or Harbinger, right?

It's possible Unity will be brought in in some aspect during Imperium, but it won't bother me if they're not.

Actually, references to the events in Romania were made in both A&A and Harbinger. Respectively, the One Percent were discussing spaceships landing in Romania, and Harada was seen planning the first Unity team attack plan (and also having to deal with the H.A.R.D. Corps rescue of Bloodshot.). But I still agree, the titles have kept to themselves, certainly more than VH1.

[ShadowTuga]

Been catching up with the last couple of months in comics, so I just read this last night.
It's a shame that this was not as publicized as it deserved. What a great mini series this was. The last scene with Harada helping those people was really mind-blowing to me. I can not help to root for this man at points, he is a fascist, self-admitedly even, but he WANTS peace and all the good that comes with that.
Imperium is already making me scratch my head- here's a guy who is making that corner of the world a much better place and the world is against him. Who am I supposed to root for as a reader? I Love this greyness, it's one of the things that always made Harbinger so special and dear to us.

JD, you're da man, man!!!!

[QUARTZ]

The scene where Harada kisses the man's feet was a very powerful character moment, I am glad you mentioned that. It shows that Harada's heart is definitely in the right place; like every good villian he truly believes what he is doing is the right and probably the ONLY thing he can to try to "save" humanity. It's an interesting conundrum; how many eggs do you break to justify world peace, or ending hunger. How many people do you hurt in the name of doing good?

[Sir Sandrick]

I had a great time reading this- was it really only 3 issues? damn it felt like more.

The new world status has been set up so well, although I am a little confused how this fit together with the Armor Hunters world crisis and Aftermath.

Such a perfect set up for Imperium. Can't wait!

[jmatt]

VEI's editorial staff seem pretty conscientious about coordinating their various story lines.

Mmm, I disagree. Apart from events, the titles have kinda remained to themselves, and that doesn't really bother me. We never heard about Aric conquering Romania in AA or Harbinger, right?

It's possible Unity will be brought in in some aspect during Imperium, but it won't bother me if they're not.

Actually, references to the events in Romania were made in both A&A and Harbinger.

I stand corrected. I guess I meant more along the lines of participating in the story, not a mere mention. But you have a good memory!

[BugsySig]

Really liked this issue, though I thought issue two was stronger. Still a great story overall.

Was Peter leaving Earth at the end? It looked like he was heading into space...I think if Pete drops off the map for a while we will see him return as either the Destroyer or the Visitor...or both.

[jmatt]

Really liked this issue, though I thought issue two was stronger. Still a great story overall.

Was Peter leaving Earth at the end? It looked like he was heading into space...I think if Pete drops off the map for a while we will see him return as either the Destroyer or the Visitor...or both.

I got the sense he was simply going to let gravity take over. He said something about "doing nothing."

[ilzuccone]

alright i finally read this issue. dysart is firing on all cylinders! I hope valiant is working hard at keeping him happy. IMO he's the best writer they have right now.

[Keith]

It would be interesting if Peter's ultimate stepping away from everything and do nothing attitude fits him more in line with the Bleeding Monk's vision of the future. Recall that the Monk told both of them that there role in events was done... Peter is the one doing that now. The Monk abandoned Harada. What if he now looks to guide Peter?

[leonmallett]

I thoughts this was a great mini series. in the 18 or so issues of Armor Hunters, there was a shift in the VEI earth status quo. Yet in Harbinger Omegas, this 3-issue mini series matched that level of change in a much shorter time, while for me remaining interesting, plausible (in context of the VALIANT universe) and thought provoking.

Great stuff.

I wonder how many may have missed this gem without realising it?

[leonmallett]

I enjoyed the series, but it would have made more sense as issues 26-28 of Harbinger. Looks like Imperium will be issues 29+. Definitely looking forward to reading that series.

+1

Same feeling here.

[leonmallett]

I just had an unexpected thought pop into my head:

I don't like this Peter. (there's one for the quotes thread)

I don't like nihilistic Peter. It's not that he's boring, it's that he's so pathetic. It makes me not want to care about him because he doesn't care about himself. Even when he was being heroic and battling Harada mano-a-mano, he was trying to kill himself.

He rejects his friends. He runs away. He shuns the world. He hides from himself with drugs. He wallows in self-pity.

It's hard to cheer for someone like that. I hope Josh changes that.

Totally agreed. I find Cronus and more compelling character for his contrasts with Peter - Christian feels like a character I can see a real spark heroism in, with Peter any heroic actions seems accidental at best.

[Bl00dsh0t]

It would be interesting if Peter's ultimate stepping away from everything and do nothing attitude fits him more in line with the Bleeding Monk's vision of the future. Recall that the Monk told both of them that there role in events was done... Peter is the one doing that now. The Monk abandoned Harada. What if he now looks to guide Peter?

What happened to BM? I can't recall much of him post Harbinger: Bleeding Monk #0 or end of Harbinger Wars...perhaps I need to go back and re-read Harbinger post HW...

Will be interesting if he does re-appear to guide Peter, however I think Peter will turn into the Visitor or something similar. I think his time as 'Peter' is done.

[Keith]

He got in the middle of Peter and Harada during their big blowout at the end of Harbinger, basically telling them that they both need to get off the stage. Peter agreed, Toyo didn't, hence the entire Omegas series. How this changes the vision BM had remains to be seen.

[Baramos]

This issue *SQUEE* me off something fierce! I too felt that it wasn't a story in its own right. I thought this miniseries would be the grand finale to this storyline, or at the very least, a climactic story that edges things further to the endgame, but instead, this whole mini just feels like setup for a future series. To me, this has basically wasted three months simply saying that 'Harada is in Africa, and the world is none too pleased with him'. I also didn't like that Peter's character never changes from the first pages of Omegas to the last. He never really confronted anything, nor did the story even really have a climax, or any kind of showdown. It just stopped.

The artwork was great though, as was the cover, which is very stylish!

nonamesuitcaseman.blogspot.com.au/

I just viewed it as a continuation of Harbinger. Plenty enough action in this to be like three issues of Harbinger.

I just had an unexpected thought pop into my head:

I don't like this Peter. (there's one for the quotes thread)

I don't like nihilistic Peter. It's not that he's boring, it's that he's so pathetic. It makes me not want to care about him because he doesn't care about himself. Even when he was being heroic and battling Harada mano-a-mano, he was trying to kill himself.

He rejects his friends. He runs away. He shuns the world. He hides from himself with drugs. He wallows in self-pity.

It's hard to cheer for someone like that. I hope Josh changes that.

Totally agreed. I find Cronus and more compelling character for his contrasts with Peter - Christian feels like a character I can see a real spark heroism in, with Peter any heroic actions seems accidental at best.

I think it's a constrast between two heroic archetypes--Christian is a more conventional hero who rises up against adversity and wants to control his life by acting against physical opponents, whereas Peter is the one who is destined to be a hero by the vagaries of fate (or the manipulations of the Bleeding Monk), and Peter is "kicking against the pricks" as it were, acting against a metaphysical concept. He knows what he has to do or become but is fighting against that because he wants control of his life.

The scene where Harada kisses the man's feet was a very powerful character moment, I am glad you mentioned that. It shows that Harada's heart is definitely in the right place; like every good villian he truly believes what he is doing is the right and probably the ONLY thing he can to try to "save" humanity. It's an interesting conundrum; how many eggs do you break to justify world peace, or ending hunger. How many people do you hurt in the name of doing good?

Harada wasn't kissing the man's feet, I don't think, simply washing them.

This is actually a calculated manipulation on Harada's part--he wants the people he saves to view him as a humble Messiah figure. Christ also washed the feet of the poor and this will not be lost on these people who are probably poor Christians or Muslims. We know these people are religious, especially when encountering something they consider to be magic (for example the young woman asking Harada to save her child says "I will betray God if you will save him with your magic.") So here is a super-powered god-man appearing out of nowhere, and he washes their feet. If people view him as the second coming it will make them more malleable.

We know that privately Harada is a megalomaniac that believes himself superior to all other humans both physically and mentally. He is the only one who can lead humanity and they should all do what he says or pay the price. So in this case, I agree that Harada thinks he is doing the correct thing in forcing humanity to bend to his will, but this particular thing is not a sign of any deep-seated humility so much as yet another manipulation of his public image.

[leonmallett]

Totally agreed. I find Cronus and more compelling character for his contrasts with Peter - Christian feels like a character I can see a real spark heroism in, with Peter any heroic actions seems accidental at best.

I think it's a constrast between two heroic archetypes--Christian is a more conventional hero who rises up against adversity and wants to control his life by acting against physical opponents, whereas Peter is the one who is destined to be a hero by the vagaries of fate (or the manipulations of the Bleeding Monk), and Peter is "kicking against the pricks" as it were, acting against a metaphysical concept. He knows what he has to do or become but is fighting against that because he wants control of his life.

Yet his way of challenge those who challenge him is to run away. That is not defiance. I have not really engaged with peter very much through Harbinger or into this series. Harada I find compelling in the way he has been portrayed; Cronus I find interesting because he seems to mix a little of the 'by any means' with protecting his people; and Kris was for me more compelling than Pete through Harbinger, although I was never really sold on her rapid move to master strategist.

Peter by comparison to those three feels self-indulgent to the extreme in my reading. Harada and Cronus are both arguably self-indulgent, but with both I feel it is connected to principles of making a particular difference in the wider world (for good or ill). Pete's problems come back to him, and haven't looked too much further out.

[erwinrafael]

Totally agreed. I find Cronus and more compelling character for his contrasts with Peter - Christian feels like a character I can see a real spark heroism in, with Peter any heroic actions seems accidental at best.

I think it's a constrast between two heroic archetypes--Christian is a more conventional hero who rises up against adversity and wants to control his life by acting against physical opponents, whereas Peter is the one who is destined to be a hero by the vagaries of fate (or the manipulations of the Bleeding Monk), and Peter is "kicking against the pricks" as it were, acting against a metaphysical concept. He knows what he has to do or become but is fighting against that because he wants control of his life.

Yet his way of challenge those who challenge him is to run away. That is not defiance. I have not really engaged with peter very much through Harbinger or into this series. Harada I find compelling in the way he has been portrayed; Cronus I find interesting because he seems to mix a little of the 'by any means' with protecting his people; and Kris was for me more compelling than Pete through Harbinger, although I was never really sold on her rapid move to master strategist.

Peter by comparison to those three feels self-indulgent to the extreme in my reading. Harada and Cronus are both arguably self-indulgent, but with both I feel it is connected to principles of making a particular difference in the wider world (for good or ill). Pete's problems come back to him, and haven't looked too much further out.

I prefer to think of Peter as actually being more realistic. Playing hero...that's the pathological condition.

[leonmallett]

Totally agreed. I find Cronus and more compelling character for his contrasts with Peter - Christian feels like a character I can see a real spark heroism in, with Peter any heroic actions seems accidental at best.

I think it's a constrast between two heroic archetypes--Christian is a more conventional hero who rises up against adversity and wants to control his life by acting against physical opponents, whereas Peter is the one who is destined to be a hero by the vagaries of fate (or the manipulations of the Bleeding Monk), and Peter is "kicking against the pricks" as it were, acting against a metaphysical concept. He knows what he has to do or become but is fighting against that because he wants control of his life.

Yet his way of challenge those who challenge him is to run away. That is not defiance. I have not really engaged with peter very much through Harbinger or into this series. Harada I find compelling in the way he has been portrayed; Cronus I find interesting because he seems to mix a little of the 'by any means' with protecting his people; and Kris was for me more compelling than Pete through Harbinger, although I was never really sold on her rapid move to master strategist.

Peter by comparison to those three feels self-indulgent to the extreme in my reading. Harada and Cronus are both arguably self-indulgent, but with both I feel it is connected to principles of making a particular difference in the wider world (for good or ill). Pete's problems come back to him, and haven't looked too much further out.

I prefer to think of Peter as actually being more realistic. Playing hero...that's the pathological condition.

It is an escapist medium - the psi powers kind of preclude 'realism'.

Also, I would suggest grim does not automatically equate real.

[erwinrafael]

Totally agreed. I find Cronus and more compelling character for his contrasts with Peter - Christian feels like a character I can see a real spark heroism in, with Peter any heroic actions seems accidental at best.

I think it's a constrast between two heroic archetypes--Christian is a more conventional hero who rises up against adversity and wants to control his life by acting against physical opponents, whereas Peter is the one who is destined to be a hero by the vagaries of fate (or the manipulations of the Bleeding Monk), and Peter is "kicking against the pricks" as it were, acting against a metaphysical concept. He knows what he has to do or become but is fighting against that because he wants control of his life.

Yet his way of challenge those who challenge him is to run away. That is not defiance. I have not really engaged with peter very much through Harbinger or into this series. Harada I find compelling in the way he has been portrayed; Cronus I find interesting because he seems to mix a little of the 'by any means' with protecting his people; and Kris was for me more compelling than Pete through Harbinger, although I was never really sold on her rapid move to master strategist.

Peter by comparison to those three feels self-indulgent to the extreme in my reading. Harada and Cronus are both arguably self-indulgent, but with both I feel it is connected to principles of making a particular difference in the wider world (for good or ill). Pete's problems come back to him, and haven't looked too much further out.

I prefer to think of Peter as actually being more realistic. Playing hero...that's the pathological condition.

It is an escapist medium - the psi powers kind of preclude 'realism'.

Also, I would suggest grim does not automatically equate real.

Isn't that the beauty of Dysart's take on Harbinger, though? He showed us how people would more realistically react to having superpowers, and there is not exactly a Spider-Man in this group. There are actually three people who are trying to act like heroes. One is a megalomaniac who actually thinks he's doing good to the world, the other one is an anti-establishment self-styled revolutionary who has bitten more than she can chew, and the other one has her ideals fashioned by strong exposure to superhero fiction. Dysart is not telling us a superhero tale here. He is telling us a tale of superpowered individuals.

I think in the bigger scheme of things, VEI may be setting up Peter to ironically become what the Bleeding Monk has seen all along: The Destroyer. And that little nugget in Archer and Armstrong was actually the seeding of the idea of who is the potential "hero" who could stop these Omegas: Archer.

[leonmallett]

Totally agreed. I find Cronus and more compelling character for his contrasts with Peter - Christian feels like a character I can see a real spark heroism in, with Peter any heroic actions seems accidental at best.

I think it's a constrast between two heroic archetypes--Christian is a more conventional hero who rises up against adversity and wants to control his life by acting against physical opponents, whereas Peter is the one who is destined to be a hero by the vagaries of fate (or the manipulations of the Bleeding Monk), and Peter is "kicking against the pricks" as it were, acting against a metaphysical concept. He knows what he has to do or become but is fighting against that because he wants control of his life.

Yet his way of challenge those who challenge him is to run away. That is not defiance. I have not really engaged with peter very much through Harbinger or into this series. Harada I find compelling in the way he has been portrayed; Cronus I find interesting because he seems to mix a little of the 'by any means' with protecting his people; and Kris was for me more compelling than Pete through Harbinger, although I was never really sold on her rapid move to master strategist.

Peter by comparison to those three feels self-indulgent to the extreme in my reading. Harada and Cronus are both arguably self-indulgent, but with both I feel it is connected to principles of making a particular difference in the wider world (for good or ill). Pete's problems come back to him, and haven't looked too much further out.

I prefer to think of Peter as actually being more realistic. Playing hero...that's the pathological condition.

It is an escapist medium - the psi powers kind of preclude 'realism'.

Also, I would suggest grim does not automatically equate real.

Isn't that the beauty of Dysart's take on Harbinger, though? He showed us how people would more realistically react to having superpowers, and there is not exactly a Spider-Man in this group. There are actually three people who are trying to act like heroes. One is a megalomaniac who actually thinks he's doing good to the world, the other one is an anti-establishment self-styled revolutionary who has bitten more than she can chew, and the other one has her ideals fashioned by strong exposure to superhero fiction. Dysart is not telling us a superhero tale here. He is telling us a tale of superpowered individuals.

I think in the bigger scheme of things, VEI may be setting up Peter to ironically become what the Bleeding Monk has seen all along: The Destroyer. And that little nugget in Archer and Armstrong was actually the seeding of the idea of who is the potential "hero" who could stop these Omegas: Archer.

I don't buy into Peter's portrayal as a beautiful work. What is the pay-off for the reader, after so many issues?

It may eventually come around and be worth the journey, but I found myself engaged with every other Renegade, even Ax and Monica Jim, by Cronus and some of the Gen Zero kids, and even compelled by Harada and Bleeding Monk, but Peter has been a character that I just find written as almost totally self-indulgent, from his sexual coercion of Kris through to the circumstances he was in in Omegas.

Heroes in fiction rise up; they may fall in doing so, but they rise up to challenge. Peter's arc had a brief upturn before descent again.