Valiant Announces Five New Series for 2015

[Shadowman99]

Wow.

Instant excitement for these new books.

Can. Not. Wait!

[ilzuccone]

Hey, everyone, can we cut the 2015 chatter, please? There's still three months left in this year...



Just kidding. This is excellent.

valiant has really stepped it up here!

[raiden]

MASSIVELY.
EXCITING.

vei totally bringing their a-game now. i'm so in. for me, THIS feels like the REAL valiant re-launch, with all the exciting newness (divinity) and surprising spins (villains book) being much more in the spirit of original valiant than the 2012 kick-off.

and holy mother, how beautiful are those bloodshot preview pages...?!?!

Agreed
It seems like now that the VEI universe is established there's more of that new and innovative feeling with these titles that VH1 had when it first launched. I was getting a bit down with all the minis, one shots and hiatuses, but this announcement has got me excited again. I'm just a bit concerned about the lack of a Shadowman title...

[mateo107]

maybe Shadowman, Master Darque, or Dr. Mirage will be playing a part in another book, like Unity, in the meantime...

[ilzuccone]

maybe Shadowman, Master Darque, or Dr. Mirage will be playing a part in another book, like Unity, in the meantime...

[Jace]

I compiled all the info I could find on this latest announcement and did a special episode of my vlog. Check it out for all the details.

http://youtu.be/d2SwZMcKA7U

[Shadowman99]

It seems like now that the VEI universe is established there's more of that new and innovative feeling with these titles that VH1 had when it first launched. I was getting a bit down with all the minis, one shots and hiatuses, but this announcement has got me excited again. I'm just a bit concerned about the lack of a Shadowman title...

Personally I'm not really bothered that there's no Shadowman in sight at the moment, when all these other amazing titles are set to come out and entertain over the course of the next 8 months or so.

Besides, when/if we see Shadowman again, I'd prefer it be a totally rebooted comic myself. Maybe VEI are considering/planning that out at the moment, which is why it's nowhere to be seen currently

[Phoenix8008]

Happy Dance time, if you can imagine how Snoopy dances in Charlie Brown, that's how I'm dancing right now. Not pretty to look at, but feels fantastic.

I know he MEANT 'how Snoopy dances in the Charlie Brown CARTOON SHOW' but that's not the visual I got when I first read it! Squish! Squish! Squishity Squish!

[kjjohanson]

It's interesting how many of these new books are not the names of characters or groups of characters. Seems to allow for a lot of leeway for what direction the story might go in.

[leonmallett]

It's interesting how many of these new books are not the names of characters or groups of characters. Seems to allow for a lot of leeway for what direction the story might go in.

I was thinking about that. It is almost as if the books are pitched to telling a storyline, rather than a specific lead or set of leads, if that makes sense.

If it doesn't, pretend I didn't post.

[Phoenix8008]

I'm gonna have to start working more overtime to afford to get going on my Valiant comics again. This stuff sounds too cool!

[lorddunlow]

It's interesting how many of these new books are not the names of characters or groups of characters. Seems to allow for a lot of leeway for what direction the story might go in.

I was thinking about that. It is almost as if the books are pitched to telling a storyline, rather than a specific lead or set of leads, if that makes sense.

If it doesn't, pretend I didn't post.

I wonder why leonmallett doesn't post much anymore?

[Shadowman99]

It's interesting how many of these new books are not the names of characters or groups of characters. Seems to allow for a lot of leeway for what direction the story might go in.

I was thinking about that. It is almost as if the books are pitched to telling a storyline, rather than a specific lead or set of leads, if that makes sense.

Comics pitched at selling a story and not characters, from a company that's always spouting the words "story first"...

[jmatt]

It's interesting how many of these new books are not the names of characters or groups of characters. Seems to allow for a lot of leeway for what direction the story might go in.

I was thinking about that. It is almost as if the books are pitched to telling a storyline, rather than a specific lead or set of leads, if that makes sense.

Same here. Books not tied to an individual per se, but to a concept or theme.

[cray_ws]

I am liking what I see and I'm really glad to see that Valiant is attempting to fill the SOLAR void that's missing to old school readers. DIVINITY looks great. Although I am having hard time swallowing the idea that Russians would be concerned about civil rights. I would rather the context be that they sent him up as guinea pig. At least the context of his existence as cosmonaut would be grounded in reality.

I love that some of the current titles like HARBINGER and BLOODSHOT are going in radically different directions, but I can't stand all these spin-offs. fragmentation is not the way to gain new readers, certainly not sustainable readers. BLOODSHOT series transformed in to HARDCORPS while keeping the numbering. While it was nice to keep the numbering, it ultimately was pointless to change the title of the book because now he's solo again after only 11 issues. Now BLOODSHOT will be featured in VALIANT mini-series that leads him to an all new series BLOODSHOT:REBORN. Try explaining that to someone who's never read a Valiant comic book. There's no need for a new BLOODSHOT series. I really don't see why they can't just continue the series with #26 and give the storyline a "reborn" chapter.

I really hope HARBINGER book continues along with IMPERIUM, I would hate to see another franchise fragmented by short-term gimmicks. HARBINGER can feature the Renegades and Generation Zero while IMPERIUM can focus on Harada's agenda. So they can be entirely their own books. Otherwise what's the point of spinning off IMPERIUM if HARBINGER is about Harada? Why not just continue HARBINGER #26 with a "imperium" chapter?

It doesn't hold any weight to say that the books have gone in different directions or have run their course when the series it merely continuing in a spin-off. I'm thankful these don't appear to be full reboots. From a marketing standpoint...it looks nice to have a brand new title, but it's such a short term thing and whatever gains are ill-gotten because spin-offs don't offer sustainability. To make my point...the easiest comic book to get a reader into is THE WALKING DEAD. There's no fragmentation, the series has gone through radical changes, yet the number and title has not changed. A brand new consumer who doesn't have a clue how comics are published can easily find the starting point for TWD in trade format or the monthly (including digital) series. There's only one #1 of each format. People who have seen the show who discover it's based on a comic...may seek out other comics only discover there's like 4 Avenger titles or 3 Batman titles and no clue where to start or which one is the 'real' title. BLOODSHOT and HARBINGER shouldn't fragment unless there's a legitimate editorial reason to do so. IMPERIUM really sounds like a fantastic book, but if HARBINGER is canceled because of it, then it comes off as greedy marketing decision. Same goes for BLOODSHOT.

I just want to clarify, I maybe voicing some negativity here in how Valiant is going about this, but I'm truly looking forward to every one of these titles. Especially DIVINITY because of it's intentions.

[Captain Craig]

^^^^^
I think we are in a small club.
The industry is catering to these ,#squirrel, readers and how LCS owners order books. I voiced it on a few of the Facebook threads(yeah, that's me if you've seen them).

Someone replied to me saying Dinesh said the following: "The numbering change is to lay out each new chapter of each new storyline, like a novel."

What? Horrid justification parallel. If the idea is to attract new readers AND not have them wondering about what happened before please tell me who jumps into a novel at chapter 7 and expects to FULLY understand nuances within the read? A new story arc is in and of itself just as equal a jumping on point in this case at #26 as is BS:R #1. At least there is intellectual honesty that if I'm determined to try out a character and it's issue #26 I straight up know it's not a clean start and I may need to roll with a few things. An issue #1 is trying to tell people it's just that, a clean slate.
There are going to be references in that first arc that suggest or demand you know about events in The Valiant, even later possibly events from the HARD Corps days and AH:B mini. Pretending that #1 is a "clear" jumping on point is indeed fooling some but then if they don't get hooked they leave and have indifferent things to say about their experience.

Re: Walking Dead analogy
Spawn #250 is bringing back Al Simmons as the host(if you didn't know he was replaced at or before #200(I forget exactly). Now, did Todd McFarlene reboot? Clearly a host change could be viewed as a legit opportunity in today's market place to relaunch with a #1 but no SPAWN fans are getting a #250.

Savage Dragon same thing. Dragon's son has actually taken over the title of the book at issue #186 I think it was. Did Erik Larsen reboot? No, no he didn't.

Witchblade. Sare Pezzini was not the bearer for some time. She came back to the 'blade at issue #175. Reboot for that drastic 'chapter' change...you guessed it, nope.

Look, I'm in but I think it's only fair to point out the fallacy of this type decision. We get the short term sales bump but various stats(I don't recall the last time I saw some) show that this is an inconsistent way to gain readers. It may have been in regards to various Punisher relaunches that I saw it as an example but I digress.

[jeremycoe]

^^^^^
I think we are in a small club.
The industry is catering to these ,#squirrel, readers and how LCS owners order books. I voiced it on a few of the Facebook threads(yeah, that's me if you've seen them).

Someone replied to me saying Dinesh said the following: "The numbering change is to lay out each new chapter of each new storyline, like a novel."

What? Horrid justification parallel. If the idea is to attract new readers AND not have them wondering about what happened before please tell me who jumps into a novel at chapter 7 and expects to FULLY understand nuances within the read? A new story arc is in and of itself just as equal a jumping on point in this case at #26 as is BS:R #1. At least there is intellectual honesty that if I'm determined to try out a character and it's issue #26 I straight up know it's not a clean start and I may need to roll with a few things. An issue #1 is trying to tell people it's just that, a clean slate.
There are going to be references in that first arc that suggest or demand you know about events in The Valiant, even later possibly events from the HARD Corps days and AH:B mini. Pretending that #1 is a "clear" jumping on point is indeed fooling some but then if they don't get hooked they leave and have indifferent things to say about their experience.

Re: Walking Dead analogy
Spawn #250 is bringing back Al Simmons as the host(if you didn't know he was replaced at or before #200(I forget exactly). Now, did Todd McFarlene reboot? Clearly a host change could be viewed as a legit opportunity in today's market place to relaunch with a #1 but no SPAWN fans are getting a #250.

Savage Dragon same thing. Dragon's son has actually taken over the title of the book at issue #186 I think it was. Did Erik Larsen reboot? No, no he didn't.

Witchblade. Sare Pezzini was not the bearer for some time. She came back to the 'blade at issue #175. Reboot for that drastic 'chapter' change...you guessed it, nope.

Look, I'm in but I think it's only fair to point out the fallacy of this type decision. We get the short term sales bump but various stats(I don't recall the last time I saw some) show that this is an inconsistent way to gain readers. It may have been in regards to various Punisher relaunches that I saw it as an example but I digress.

Of the three books you mentioned, ONLY Spawn sells in the top 300. High numbered books are the exception these days. I would prefer them, and in fact Savage Dragon is my FAVORITE book, but Valiant has to do what they see as being best for business.

[Captain Craig]

I don't see there being a reason for where they place in the top 300.
They are all just as small and independent as any VEI book.

I'm not disputing that VEI is doing what they think is best for sales. I am disagreeing with the logic of stating it's "like a novel" and the renumbering is similar/just like starting a new chapter in a book philosophy. As well as the likely benefits of short vs long term growth of new readers once the back issue bins are full of various #1's with no clear way to determine which chapter #1 comes before the other #1.

I want VEI to do well. I clearly am here and buy their products. I think it can be a healthy discussion to have though even if we aren't involved directly.

[BugsySig]

I don't see there being a reason for where they place in the top 300.
They are all just as small and independent as any VEI book.

I'm not disputing that VEI is doing what they think is best for sales. I am disagreeing with the logic of stating it's "like a novel" and the renumbering is similar/just like starting a new chapter in a book philosophy. As well as the likely benefits of short vs long term growth of new readers once the back issue bins are full of various #1's with no clear way to determine which chapter #1 comes before the other #1.

I want VEI to do well. I clearly am here and buy their products. I think it can be a healthy discussion to have though even if we aren't involved directly.

I dont like the renumbering, but VEI did try that with Shadowman when they continued with #13 (when Milligan came on board). And despite all the publicity they did for it, the sales still tanked.

I'm not sure how this current strategy will fair, but it was clear that all of the titles were slowly losing readership and not plateauing or growing.

Hopefully the VALIANT NEXT campaign will be a huge jumping on point for new readers and the quality will be so high they'll have no choice but to stay, the brand will grow, and renumbering wont be necessary anymore.

[Phoenix8008]

I don't see there being a reason for where they place in the top 300.
They are all just as small and independent as any VEI book.

I'm not disputing that VEI is doing what they think is best for sales. I am disagreeing with the logic of stating it's "like a novel" and the renumbering is similar/just like starting a new chapter in a book philosophy. As well as the likely benefits of short vs long term growth of new readers once the back issue bins are full of various #1's with no clear way to determine which chapter #1 comes before the other #1.

I want VEI to do well. I clearly am here and buy their products. I think it can be a healthy discussion to have though even if we aren't involved directly.

I dont like the renumbering, but VEI did try that with Shadowman when they continued with #13 (when Milligan came on board). And despite all the publicity they did for it, the sales still tanked.

I'm not sure how this current strategy will fair, but it was clear that all of the titles were slowly losing readership and not plateauing or growing.

Hopefully the VALIANT NEXT campaign will be a huge jumping on point for new readers and the quality will be so high they'll have no choice but to stay, the brand will grow, and renumbering wont be necessary anymore.

Coincidence does not equal Causality. Yes, Valiant continued Shadowman without renumbering. Yes, the sales for Shadowman tanked. But I challenge you to find ANYONE that believe that second fact is due to the first. Shadowman tanked because the story was weak still. They then 'rebooted' and started a mini series for End Times starting at #1. That didn't do any better than the last few issues of the regular series. So rebooting it didn't bring in any flood of readers and keep the title going.

Anybody that's been involved in these discussions knows I'm on the side of not rebooting/renumbering. I UNDERSTAND the arguments on both sides and can't do a damn thing to convice VEI to continue numbering rather than rebooting, but I'd prefer consistancy over repeated jumpstarts.

And none of this means there couldn't be a book like Imperium alongside a Harbinger book, or that Harbinger couldn't come back with an issue #26 after Imperium. Who knows.

[Captain Craig]

Coincidence does not equal Causality. Yes, Valiant continued Shadowman without renumbering. Yes, the sales for Shadowman tanked. But I challenge you to find ANYONE that believe that second fact is due to the first. Shadowman tanked because the story was weak still. They then 'rebooted' and started a mini series for End Times starting at #1. That didn't do any better than the last few issues of the regular series. So rebooting it didn't bring in any flood of readers and keep the title going.

This and THIS!

The Shadowman attempt failed not due to trying to continue the numbering. It also failed with the re-number attempt cause the direction they have for Shadowman frankly is horrid. We've all discussed how disappointing the stories have been for the character(with few exception).
No one ever once said,"End Times #1 was so awesome and felt just like a true jumping on point cause it was a #1."
The converse is true. Many mentioned how jumbled the #1 and subsequent issues in the series was because it was inadequate as a jumping on point.


I don't wish that to be said of Bloodshot Reborn for at least one reason, VEI has told and been telling much better stories with the character. Still, there is plenty of "baggage" for the character and no number on the cover is going to change that. Even if the first arc has been delicately crafted(lets face it, we've seen their editing process) to omit or obscure refrences to anything prior it's going to creep in during the next arc. So just go with the #26 and market it accordingly as a jumping on point.
Heck, put #26 in the corner but use the ole #1 of a new 4 issue arc plainly on the cover for customers to see as the book sits on the shelf. Let shop owners know this. Offer that buy back incentive program you did for UNITY #1. There are options.

[BugsySig]

I wasn't trying to say continuing the numbering caused the book to tank, just that it's been shown that new #1s tend to boost sales more than pitching a new direction or new creative team. I think VEI later regretted not just pitching the Milligan run as a new #1, hence the End Times mini (Of course End Times tanked as well...Some things are just not salvageable).

But looking at the new titles, I'm not sure any of them shouldn't be new #1s. Divinity, Ninjak and Timewalker are brand new and Imperium seems a far cry from Pete Stanchek and the Renegades. Bloodshot would be the possible exception, but that character has been wondering rather aimlessly since about halfway through the second arc. The teaming with HARD Corps, while enjoyable, barely featured Bloodshot at all. For one of VEIs biggest properties, it needs a fresh introduction to readers.

And I do give VEI some credit: They scrapped Shadowman and EW when they were floundering, but ran A&A and Harbinger to #25, and are continuing XO into #30. Unity and Rai also seem poised to continue their numbering for some time.

In the end, they need to get retailers to order their books, and unfortunately that means renumbering, mini series and one shots.

[jmatt]

So just go with the #26 and market it accordingly as a jumping on point.
Heck, put #26 in the corner but use the ole #1 of a new 4 issue arc plainly on the cover for customers to see as the book sits on the shelf. Let shop owners know this. Offer that buy back incentive program you did for UNITY #1. There are options.

+1

[cray_ws]

There are three factors involved here, accessibility, sustainability, and growth. While I completely acknowledge that low numbering gives a the easiest perception to the new consumer of accessibility. I also admit that the potential growth of readership is damn near risk-free when a title is renumbered. The risk is short term, and even within it's short span there's almost always a sales spike with brand new #1. A publisher can literally do #1 with no obvious fallout. The benefits outweigh the negatives by large margin. That's why they do it, because even though Shadowman:End times didn't fair well on the sales chart...the #1 outsold all latter issues.

It's extremely rare for any comic to continually gain readers. Every comic bleeds readers, it's just matter of how fast or slow the bleeding is and what a publisher can do to provide a spike. Change of storyline, creative team, or some promotional gimmick. Once that is done, the book returns to it's bleeding state. These deliberate spikes can at anytime provide the company with a chance to slow the bleed down. Even rarer a spike can create a small growth, much like what HARBINGER WARS did for the rest of the Valiant line up.

The problem I have with renumbering is that it erodes true accessibility and long term growth, and ultimately makes a publisher exclusively sustainable by short term tactics. This is what I call fragmentation. When publisher has too many #1 of the same title (two #1 of the same book is too many!), it makes it harder to grow and expand the business beyond just the monthly game. Like it or not, right now Valiant is all about short-term sales right now, they offer nothing to themselves or consumers that give them a chance to grow. As long as they continue to publish the 24+ page decompressed monthly format, they will suffer fragmentation with renumbering.

Based on the logic that Valiant has defended renumbering by stating a "like a novel" book philosophy, that would require Valiant to stop publishing 24+ page decompressed monthly format and just go straight to graphic novel format where the entire story is complete. This would give them legitimate chance for growth, because it simplifies the fragmentation, reduces overhead and bolsters their accessibility. Everyone knows trades do really well, especially highly anticipated properties. BLOODSHOT:REBORN should not be renumbered and published in 24+ page decompressed monthly format, instead it should be published as a complete book. Label the books as volumes, much like true novels are.

[Peter]

I do not in any way mean to disrespect anyone's opinion or the stated facts and statistics governing sales and the like, I have very limited knowledge in the field of manufacturing and selling comics. What I do have is fifty years (okay probably 45) of reading comics and one thing that will always make me buy a product, is good storytelling and good art. If the artwork is only so-so I can get past it if the story keeps me enthralled.

Numbering means nothing to me, if the character and story keeps me coming back, I will go to the ends of the Earth to track down any relevant books I need to complete that story. A series of mini series will not matter, for if I come into the third or fourth arc and love the format, it is quite easy to track the others down. Although, in saying that it is always easier to track down one continuous series numbering, but it is not really important.

In regards to Valiant I don't know if it is a little bit of the nostalgic factor as I loved these characters when they were first released and was an avid Valiant buyer, but slowly stopped reading the titles later through the Acclaim years as the stories became quite poor (in my opinion). X-O, Bloodshot and Ninjak became unreadable and I felt like having a shower to wash of the stank after trying to read Eternal Warrior then (Acclaim years).

The thing is, the reason I am loving the VEI again now, is because these are great stories, there aren't too many comic books out there that I can really laugh whilst reading like I can with Fred Van Lente's Archer & Armstrong, or be enthralled at the goings on, both in story and high action art in books like X-O and Unity. Eternal Warrior and Timewalker were always my favourites and I am so excited what is coming up, and in saying this I buy all Valiant titles even Quantum & Woody ( they finally got to me).
The thing is I keep coming back because all these are great stories.

The main problem I see with Valiant, is getting the message out to the punters. I don't know what is like in the U.S. Canada and Europe, but here in Australia those I know who buy a few Valiant titles each month love the stories and are regular readers, but far too many others, when I say "do you read any Valiant titles?", they look at me like I'm speaking a different language, they just haven't heard of these stories. I read from the big two and many other companies, but I feel I'm the poster boy for Valiant in my area, and the reason for this is quality storytelling.

So the product is good it is just getting the message out.