Harbinger #22 discussion

chriskay99 · Post by **chriskay99** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:39 am

This was the variant they had exclusive to WonderCon so I picked it up and read it when I got home!

Sets the ball rolling nicely for this Death of a Renegade arc. I'll leave any more relevant details out for the moment so as not to inadvertently spoil anything this far in advance, but it's a good issue. Mostly I just wanted to finally start a 'published issue' thread for once in my short time here on the boards. I can never get to my LCS before 7 pm, so nanny nanny boo boo.

jmatt · Post by **jmatt** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:21 pm

Thanks for not blabbing. Although if others have the book I'm sure we'll hear spoilers. I'm gonna try to not look.

bygranddesign · Post by **bygranddesign** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:32 pm

Just read this issue ... so I can finally peek in this thread

Wow ... another great issue of Harbinger!!

I loved the misdirection (you can see it coming - but it was still handled really well)

And I loved how Josh played up every renegade as though they could be the one that dies. Very smartly written as usual.

I know Jmatt must have read this issue with a cocky i told you so smile on his face

Josh definitely made the meat of this issue about Torque .. and gave hints of his demise .. as well as the final page showing him struggle against Ion.

If you were a believer in the revelations of Ivar - Torque getting knocked off would also free Faith up for Archer

Faith coming to the rescue is also ominous

Flamingo showing interest in Peter was also interesting - it might be some relationship building for when Kris dies? Or building another connection so when Flamingo dies it will be more impactful to Peter...

Angry Harada saying this will be your last day on Earth to Peter was another nice touch

Just another great issue - the only thing that sucks is waiting a month for the next one

8.8/10 METAL!

Sir Sandrick · Post by **Sir Sandrick** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:38 pm

The first page, saying everything ends, nothing ever ends... Faith is having her parents taken away. Sets it up that someone else dear to her will be taken away, so it definitely makes it seem like Torque is in the most danger to me- but that could be further misdirection and it is one of the others.

Loved this issue - read it twice. Beautiful art and pacing. Cannot wait for the next!

bygranddesign · Post by **bygranddesign** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:16 pm

Sir Sandrick wrote:The first page, saying everything ends, nothing ever ends... Faith is having her parents taken away. Sets it up that someone else dear to her will be taken away, so it definitely makes it seem like Torque is in the most danger to me- but that could be further misdirection and it is one of the others.

Loved this issue - read it twice. Beautiful art and pacing. Cannot wait for the next!

Good point..

BugsySig · Post by **BugsySig** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:51 pm

Great issue. Great. The focus seems to be on Faith and Torque, but the next issue could just as easily focus on Kris and Charlene. Tons of misdirection going on here, which is awesome because you want to keep guessing (well, everyone except JMatt and Dunlow that is).

Torque dying is being built up too much for me to think he's dying, but it wouldn't surprise me if Dysart kills him twice and re-re-does the VH1 death just to F with us.

Faith dying would definitely have a major impact on all the characters and could either cost Torque his ability to produce his projection or reinvigorate it. It might also be the one thing other than Pete dying that could split the team apart.

Big question is: What exactly did Pete do to Kris? This is likely to come back as a huge plot point next issue. Kris is also on her own with Animalia (young, unstable, not attached to the Renegades) and non-powered @x. All that combined makes me think its Kris who will wind up in the ground.

String · Post by **String** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:51 pm

Dysart has done an admirable job with all the misdirection, both internal to the story (Harada really looks *SQUEE*) and external to us (who's going to die?!)

While the focus on the new relationship between Faith and Torque was great, it seems too obvious for Torque to be the one. I hope Dysart continues to subvert our expectations.

I'm curious in seeing what Peter did to Kris as well. Is it an act that potentially dooms one of them or saves one of them at the expense of another?

A terrific start to the end of this chapter of Harbinger.

jxm640 · Post by **jxm640** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:53 pm

BugsySig wrote:Big question is: What exactly did Pete do to Kris? This is likely to come back as a huge plot point next issue. Kris is also on her own with Animalia (young, unstable, not attached to the Renegades) and non-powered @x. All that combined makes me think its Kris who will wind up in the ground.

I think this relates to what he did to her in issue 1.

bygranddesign · Post by **bygranddesign** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:30 pm

BugsySig wrote:Big question is: What exactly did Pete do to Kris? This is likely to come back as a huge plot point next issue. Kris is also on her own with Animalia (young, unstable, not attached to the Renegades) and non-powered @x. All that combined makes me think its Kris who will wind up in the ground.

Hmm.. I think you might be onto something. Kris allowing Peter back into her head - could lead to her ultimately being the one that gets killed.

Peter would already go crazy if Kris would die ... but if he is partly responsible for her death because he was in her head - that would make it doubly tragic - which sounds like a great way for Dysart to tie a bow on this tragic tale.

This was the plot point that sort of went under the radar - while everything else was more easy detect/heavy handed.

The problem is - I'm not sure exactly what they were doing but if its something like mind control (like he did with the trucker) - I could see this leading to her dying and Peter feeling the whole thing happening as he will also be inside her mind.

This will lead to the massive battle for issue #25

jmatt · Post by **jmatt** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:59 pm

Wowie-zowie. I was frightened to turn every page.

The foreshadowing and setup, all the way from the inside cover to the final panel, was screaming Faith or Torque. If the next issue doesn't take us down a new road altogether, I'm thinking it could be Faith now. She's flying in to rescue Torque, if Ion wheels and blasts her, she has no defense.

But with Harada on the way, this could all be a head fake and the next issue could go in a completely new direction. I mean, would Dysart have somebody as secondary as Ion be the one to kill a renegade?

rpellech83 · Post by **rpellech83** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:44 pm

Could Pete have left a psionic last will and testament in Kris figuring that it was he vs. Harada to the death. I really hope he doesn't die bit I can't shake that feeling that book one would end with Pete dead.

AnthonyF · Post by **AnthonyF** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:24 pm

Could Pete have triggered Kris's harbinger powers?! I doubt it, but that would be a twist.

It's more likely that Peter is acutally Kris in disguise (that's why Flamingo's carrying him + was flirting with him/her). So I think Kris is possibly one that bites it.

DirtbagSailor · Post by **DirtbagSailor** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:33 pm

AnthonyF wrote:It's more likely that Peter is acutally Kris in disguise (that's why Flamingo's carrying him + was flirting with him/her). So I think Kris is possibly one that bites it.

This. Likely.

DBS

jmatt · Post by **jmatt** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:38 pm

Here's a question: Harada can mimic other psiot powers? Since when?

He first appeared to Pete as a dog in issue #1 or #2, but if I recall correctly that was more of a mental projection to Pete than him actually taking the form of a dog. We also see him with ripping open the truck with some kind of monster claws.

There's a difference between being the most powerful and being able to do all the things other psiots can do.

bygranddesign · Post by **bygranddesign** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:40 pm

AnthonyF wrote:Could Pete have triggered Kris's harbinger powers?! I doubt it, but that would be a twist.

It's more likely that Peter is acutally Kris in disguise (that's why Flamingo's carrying him + was flirting with him/her). So I think Kris is possibly one that bites it.

Hmm .. Interesting idea and theory ... but Flamingo can't fly

I think Peter was flying - Flamingo was just piggy backing

jmatt · Post by **jmatt** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:42 pm

AnthonyF wrote:It's more likely that Peter is acutally Kris in disguise (that's why Flamingo's carrying him + was flirting with him/her). So I think Kris is possibly one that bites it.

I'll ask the same question I did of Harada: Since when can Pete make other people take on the form of someone else? He could presumably have disguised himself in any of a few dozen great opportunities in every other issue, if so.

bygranddesign · Post by **bygranddesign** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:59 pm

jmatt wrote:
AnthonyF wrote:It's more likely that Peter is acutally Kris in disguise (that's why Flamingo's carrying him + was flirting with him/her). So I think Kris is possibly one that bites it.
I'll ask the same question I did of Harada: Since when can Pete make other people take on the form of someone else? He could presumably have disguised himself in any of a few dozen great opportunities in every other issue, if so.

In the issue, Harada mentions how much Peters powers are progressing. They are the two Omega Harbinger's we know of - maybe within time they can access all harbinger powers.

I'm going against what I just said in the previous post .. But is it possible he can project himself onto Kris and at the same time give her his powers while he does something else?

Eventually he can't do both things - and Kris disguised as Peter gets killed..

pixierosa · Post by **pixierosa** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:42 pm

Ooohhh, I like the Kris/Pete switcheroo theory. That would explain why the comments he was making about the headquarters/pool of candidates, etc sounded more like something Kris would think about their strategy. He could just be parroting/agreeing, but that sounded like Kris. We also don't see much in the way of powers from Pete except for the flying and at the very end when he is floating and his eyes are "harbingering out". I could imagine Pete making everyone believe they are seeing him instead of Kris, but I don't know if he can manifest powers through her. But I do like the theory!

I thought this was a great read. Nice character development. Monica realizes and admits to her error - and they face the consequences. Torque's heart grows stronger but it makes him weaker (love makes us vulnerable), Kris shows faith in Pete and does something she never wanted to do -- and she does it for the better of the team. Pete is handling his responsibility to the group. He's not the punk with the chip on his shoulder that we met in the first arc.

Darpan makes a reappearance. Pete is keeping his promise to Monica and helping to free the Gen Zero kids. The team is dismantling the facade that Harada has built over decades. Harada's own soldiers seem to note that what Pete did, making that suffering, dying man's last days blissful, was not exactly a bad thing. And you better believe those kid soldiers are also witnessing their leader's own hubris and lack of compassion. His actions are speaking louder than his words.

I also liked that once again, Harada is led into a setup and gets the bad news about his failure to stop them via video, just like they did during the first arc in Kris' house. Boom.

Sir Sandrick · Post by **Sir Sandrick** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:51 am

Yeah now that it has had a chance to sink in... Torque's death would be way too obvious. Plus he is on the cover of Harbinger Armor Hunters, so he must just be going through a phase. Plus, I don't think that they would start the relationship with them just to off him so quick. I think that it has got to be Charlene or Kris. Damn, the next issue is going to be exciting. I haven't had this level of anticipating in reading for quite a while.

BugsySig · Post by **BugsySig** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:11 am

Sir Sandrick wrote:Yeah now that it has had a chance to sink in... Torque's death would be way too obvious. Plus he is on the cover of Harbinger Armor Hunters, so he must just be going through a phase. Plus, I don't think that they would start the relationship with them just to off him so quick. I think that it has got to be Charlene or Kris. Damn, the next issue is going to be exciting. I haven't had this level of anticipating in reading for quite a while.

Another little point that has gone unnoticed is that Pete asked Torque to run safety for Charlene. He then gets taken out by Ion and may end up leaving Flamingo even more vulnerable in order to protect Faith.

I also think the reappearance of Darpan could have a role in the death as we know Darpan can create one's worse fears and leave them quite vulnerable...just a thought.

Heath · Post by **Heath** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:04 pm

This would have been a GREAT issue if with each panel I wasn't anticipating an over-publicized death that never happened.

rpellech83 · Post by **rpellech83** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:35 pm

Well with the death being over publicized it shocks me to find you never saw that they specifically mentioned the character dies in 23. I know I won't be expecting the death before then.

Heath · Post by **Heath** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:12 pm

rpellech83 wrote:Well with the death being over publicized it shocks me to find you never saw that they specifically mentioned the character dies in 23. I know I won't be expecting the death before then.

After the first announcements, I had been avoiding spoilers. Like that one.

In this case, however, I guess it would have been best if I hadn't. Given the original spoiler of the death itself, of course.

ilzuccone · Post by **ilzuccone** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:56 pm

Solid book. back to some good harbinger story telling. I hope fire girl dies. she's as shallow of a character as they come.

jmatt · Post by **jmatt** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:23 pm

Heath wrote:This would have been a GREAT issue if with each panel I wasn't anticipating an over-publicized death that never happened.

I have one foot in the camp that doesn't want to know and one foot in the camp that thinks it adds drama. Other than general knowledge of the event, I, too, had no idea the death comes in issue #23.

It's weird. I don't want to know what's gonna happen -- but I can't deny that knowing something big is afoot is making it more exciting.

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