X-O Manowar #1 p28 - sold for $2,076

[iggy101us]

Congrats to the winner. Hopefully it went to a member.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/X-O-MANOWAR-Pag ... true&rt=nc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[nycjadie]

Wow! Amazing page. Equally amazing price.

[sonicdan]

Impressive! I remember when I thought $400-500 was a lot for a BWS page.
DAN

[Phantom]

Does any board member store these images?
As in scans or images of original artwork from valiant?

[DirtbagSailor]

That is sooo damn pimp!

DBS

[AnthonyF]

Does any board member store these images?
As in scans or images of original artwork from valiant?

Impressive price! I bid, but was blown away by the competition.

The board does has some original art scans here. http://www.valiantfan.com/valiant/artlibrary.asp

Plus this site. http://allthingsvaliant.blogspot.com/se ... inal%20Art Is it run by a member?? I wonder...

[jay]

That is a crazy price for that piece. Just dumb.

[AnthonyF]

That is a crazy price for that piece. Just dumb.

Barry Windsor-Smith art goes for crazy prices. I could see the next page, the last page in the book, going for more.

[jay]

I repeat, that is a stupid price for that piece. Dont take that the wrong way Anthony. Approaching 2 decades of collecting , mostly Valiant art, I reserve the right to say that.

[AnthonyF]

I repeat, that is a stupid price for that piece. Dont take that the wrong way Anthony. Approaching 2 decades of collecting , mostly Valiant art, I reserve the right to say that.

Let me put this another way... where can I find BWS pages for non-stupid prices?

Do you have a website for selling art?

[jay]

I've never sold a page.

[jay]

Layouts - From an earlier post:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3991&p=48055&hilit= ... uts#p48055" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


From : Windsor-Smith Studio <wsstudio@ulster.net>
Reply-To : wsstudio@ulster.net
Sent : Thursday, February 17, 2005 10:19 PM
To : Rich K <speedracex@hotmail.com>
Subject : Re: Barry Windsor Smith Comic Checklist

| | | Inbox


Dear Rich,

This is Alex Bialy, Windsor-Smith Studio manager.

We don't have a BWS checklist of our own, but our friend Craig Miller at
Spectrum magazine has allowed us to forward his to anyone who asks.

I hope this helps.

Best,

Alex Bialy

Following is a list of Barry Windsor-Smith’s published comic book- and
print-related work, arranged by format and publisher. Issues with
interior work contain at least five pages of Windsor-Smith art unless
otherwise noted. Reprint covers are generally not listed. NOTE: Barry
contributed to the stories of many of his comics. The ‘script’ section
below lists only those publications in which he is credited with writing
or plotting input.

INTERIOR ARTWORK
Marvel Comics:
Astonishing Tales 3-6, 10
Avengers 66, 67, 98-100
Chamber of Darkness 3, 4
Conan 1-15, 16 (reprint), 19-21, 22 (reprint), 23, 24, Annual 1
(reprint)
Conan Classic 1-9 (reprints)
Conan Special Edition (Red Nails) 1 (reprint)
Conan Vs. Rune 1
Daredevil 50-52, 83 (layouts), 236
Excalibur 27
Fantastic Four 296
Giant-Size Chillers 3 (reprint)
Giant-Size Conan 1-5 (reprints)
Iron Man 47, 232, 243 (inks)
Machine Man (second series) 1-3 (inks), 4
Machine Man 2020 - 1, 2 (reprints in both)
Marvel Age 15 , June 1984 (reprints panels from Marvel Fanfare)
Marvel Collector’s Item Classics 21 (pin-up)
Marvel Comics Presents 72-84
Marvel Fanfare 15, 45 (pin-up)
Marvel Premiere 3, 4
Marvel Saga 7 (one page reprint)
Marvel Super Action 27-28 (reprints)
Marvel Universe (second series) 4
Monsters on the Prowl 9 (inks)
SHIELD (first series) 12
Tower of Shadows 3, 5, 7
Uncanny X-Men 53, 186, 198, 205, 214
Western Gunfighters 4
Wolverine Saga 4 (reprint)
X-Men Classic 90, 102, 109 (reprints in all)

DC Comics:
Batman 3-D 1 (pin-up)
Heroes Against Hunger 1 (two pages)
Sandman Special 1 (pin-up)
Superman Special 1 (pin-up)

Alternative Comics:
A-1: 1, 2
Archer & Armstrong 0-6, 8, 10-12
Bloodshot 1 (poster)
Deathmate Prologue 1
Eternal Warrior 1 (two pages), 6-8
Exiles 3 (three pages)
Firearm 2 (three pages)
Freex 4 (three pages)
Hardcase 5 (three pages)
Mantra 4 (three pages)
Night Man 1 (three pages)
Pathways to Fantasy 1
Prime 5 (three pages)
Prototype 3 (three pages)
Rune 0-6, Giant-Size 1
Rune: The Spin Special Edition 1 (reprint, plus two new pages)
Sin City: Lost, Lonely, & Lethal 1 (pin-up)
Sludge 1 (three pages)
Solar, Man of the Atom 1-10
Solution 2 (three pages)
Strangers 5 (three pages)
Ultraverse Origins 1 (two pages)
Unity 0, 1
Wildstorm Rising 1
X-O Manowar 1 (layouts)

Magazines and Fanzines, All Publishers:
Amazing Heroes 78 (one-half page), 188 (interview)
Ariel 3 (interview)
Cerebus Companion 1 (article about BWS’s influence on Cerebus)(two
pages)
Color Your Dreams 1 (one page)
Comic Art Con Program Book 1978 (biography and photo)
Comics Buyer’s Guide 1201 (interview)
Comics Journal 190 (interview)
Comics Scene (second series) 18 (interview), 24 (interview)
Conan Saga 1-2 (reprints), 3, 4-8 (reprints), 51 (reprint)
Epic 7, 16, 19 (two pages reprinted), 34 (four pages)
Esquire 3/1972 (one page)
Gorblimey Press Catalog 1974-5
Inside Comics 3 (poster reprint)
Marvel Treasury Special (Captain America’s Bicentennial Battles) 1
(inks)
Marvelmania 2-4, 6
Monsters of the Movies 1 (reprint)
Previews (Diamond Distributors catalog) Vol. II #3-#4 (interview)
Ragnarok 3 (interview)
Realm 5 (four drawings)
REH: Lone Star Fictioneer 2 (interview)
Rune/Wrath ashcan
Savage Sword of Conan 1 (reprint), 3, 7 (one page), 13 (one page), 16,
24 (reprint), 82 (reprint), Annual 1 (reprint)
Savage Tales (first series) 1-3, 4 (reprint), Annual 1 (reprint)
Shayol 1 (reprint pin-up), 4 (one illustration reprinted)
ShelfStuff
Spectrum 11 (interview)
Starlog Spectacular 5 (reprint pin-up)
Storyteller 1-9
Storyteller ashcan preview
Valiant Reader - part 1 (inks)
Vampirella 9
Wildstorm Rising ashcan (two pages)
Wizard 7 (interview), 17 (interview), 28 (interview)

Prints, Portfolios, and Posters:
Big O posters (six in all; reprint Gorblimey Press prints)
Book of Samothrace print - 1977
Conan print (“Temple of the Dead”)
Conan the Barbarian black light poster (Conan 8 splash page) (Third Eye)

Conan the Barbarian poster (two-color poster of Conan 4 cover)
Devil’s Lake print - 1975
Drawings of Barry Windsor-Smith portfolio - 1981
Enchantment print - 1974
Excalibur portfolio (Arthurian, not comics) - 1978
Fantastic Islands portfolio - 1978
Fate Sowing the Stars print - 1978
F.O.O.G. portfolio (one plate)
Four Ages portfolio - 1974
Gorblimey Press (1976 promo poster)
Icarus print - 1981
Judgement of the Dead by the Living print - 1974
Last Atlantean print - 1990
Lord of the Black Corsairs (Conan) poster (color version of plate 3 of
the
Machine Man promotional poster
Marvel Calendar Poster 1988 (reprints Wolverine illustration)
Marvel Comic Covers portfolio (one plate)
Mitras print - 1979
Moon and Star Bookmarks - 1975
National Cartoonists Society Portfolio (one plate)
New Romantics Exhibition poster
Nimue the Enchantress print
Pandora print - 1974
Psyche print - 1980
Ram and the Peacock print - 1974
Robert E. Howard Memorial portfolio - 1975
Rune promotional poster
Sepia Horseman print - 1974
Sibyla portfolio - 1979
Sibyla print - 1981
Silver Surfer poster (late 60s or early 70s)
Something ic waes print - 1974
Storyteller three-sheet poster
Team 7 poster
Tupenny Conan portfolio - 1974
Unity promotional poster
Weapon X promotional poster
Wildstorm Rising poster
Withering print - 1975
Wizard of Lemuria poster
Wolverine 1989 Calendar Poster

Books and Miscellaneous Items:
Beatles Illustrated Lyrics, Volume 2 (one page)
Bloodshot promo chromium card (reproduces Bloodshot 1 cover)
Bookmarks (two styles: Moon and Stars)
Comic Book in America (hardcover book by Mike Benton; reproduces Conan 2
cover with brief comment)
Conan chromium trading cards (1993; Comic Images) 23 and 70 reproduce
Conan Saga covers; 63-66, 81, 87, and 90 reproduce BWS black-and-white
art on the card backs
Conan paperbacks 1-6 (reprints)
Conan the Barbarian pin (reproduces cover of Conan 1)
Conan the Barbarian Super-Hero Puzzle (Third Eye)
Conan the Barbarian T-shirt (reproduces cover of Conan Annual 1)
Creators Universe trading cards (1993; Dynamic Entertainment) 15 (Bron)
and 79 (Strangehands)
Creators Universe promo trading card X1 (Bron)
Dr. Strange: Master of the Mystic Arts (softcover book; reprint)
Famous Cartoonist self-portrait pin #44
Gorblimey Press Christmas Cards-1974, 1976 (“Peace on Earth”), 1979
(“The Cup”), and one with no date (“PAX”)
Great History of Comic Books (softcover book by Ron Goulart; three
pages on Conan, including a panel reprinted from “Red Nails”)
“Here Comes the Freedom Train” - Cover illustration for sheet music to
the official song of The American Freedom Train, Music and Lyrics by
Stephen H. Lemberg. 1973
International Book of Comics (hardcover book by Denis Gifford;
reproduces Conan 1 cover with brief comment)
Iron Man (softcover reprint)
Jack Kirby’s Heroes and Villains Black Magic Edition (softcover book;
one page inks)
Machine Man (softcover book; reprints mini-series)
Madman collector card
Magnus Robot Fighter collector card (bound in MRF 0)
Marvel Calendar 1975 (one page)
Marvel: Five Fabulous Decades of the World’s Greatest Comics (hardcover
book by Les Daniels; about three pages about Conan, including
reproductions of Conan covers 1, 5, and 20; also a BWS illustration is
used as part of a montage for the inside front and back covers)
Marvel Comic Book Heroes trading cards (1974/75; Topps; one “card” they
were actually stickers-reproduces Conan from the cover of issue 21)
Marvel’s Colossal Conflicts trading cards (1987; Comic Images) 30
(reproduces a New Mutants cover)
Marvel’s First Covers trading cards, series II (1991; Comic Images) 24
(Machine Man 1)
Marvel Super Heroes trading cards (1976; Topps; accompanying this
sticker set was a nine-card checklist that, when lined up together,
formed a reproduction of the Conan 1 cover)
Marvel Universe (hardcover book by Peter Sanderson; reproduces a page
from Weapon X; also a BWS illustration is used as part of a montage for
the inside front and back covers)
Marvel Universe (softcover book) Volume 2 (reprint)
Masters of Comic Book Art (softcover book by P.R. Garriock) (one
chapter)
Over 50 Years of American Comic Books (hardcover book by Ron Goulart;
includes three pages about Conan, including a reproducdtion of the Conan
9 cover)
Paradoxman T-shirts (“This is not reality”)(reg. and bloody)
Rune pin
Rune temporary tattoo
Rune promo trading cards (two different)
Solar, Man of the Atom-Alpha and Omega (hardcover book; reprints)
Spectrum 5: The Best in Contemporary Fatastic Art. 1995. 1 pg. Adastra
watercolor from cover of BWS:STORYTELLER #3
Storyteller slipcase
Studio (softcover book) (one chapter)
Swords of Cerebus 5
Ultraverse II trading cards (1994; SkyBox) 73-81 (when lined up they
form one large Rune illustration)
Ultraverse II promo trading card P2 (Rune illustration)
Uncanny X-Men Series II trading card set (1990; Comic Images; cards 11,
24, 31, 39, 41, and 43 reproduce BWS covers for the Uncanny X-Men)
Unity trading cards (1992; Voyager) approximately 25 cards reproduce art
from Valiant comics; also 1 chrome chase card
Unity promo trading card (reproduces Unity 1 cover)
Valiant/Pyramid Unseen Art promo cards U3 and U6
Weapon X (hardcover book; reprints)
Wolverine: From Then Til Now I trading cards (1991; Comic Images) 40 44
(reproduces art from Weapon X)
Wolverine: From Then Til Now II trading cards (1992; Comic Images) 7
10, 12, 13 (reproduces art from Weapon X)
Wolverine Through the Ages Part 1 Keepsake Collection
Wolverine trading card (1988; Comic Images) 42 (reproduces art from X
Men 205)

COVER ARTWORK
Marvel Comics Covers:
Avengers 98-99 (inks), 100
Captain Marvel 11
Conan 1-11, 13-16, 19-22, 24, Annual 1
Conan Vs. Rune 1
Daredevil 50-52, 217
Dr. Strange (first series) 179
Fantastic Four 296
Firestar 4
Iron Man 13, 232
Kull the Conqueror (second series) 9, 10
Machine Man (second series) 1-4
Marvel Comics Presents 72-84
Marvel Fanfare 15
Marvel Premiere 2
Marvel Super-Heroes 19
Marvel Team-Up 150
New Mutants 36, 40-48
SHIELD (first series) 11 (inks), 12
Wolverine (second series) 4
X-Men (first series) 53-55, 186, 198, 205, 212, 214 (inks), 216

DC Comics Covers:
Batman Black and White 3
Teen Titans (second series) 68

Power House Pinups on British Comics:
Fantastic 32, 33, 35, 37, 38, 40, 42, 44, 45, 46, 47, 51, 52 & 53
Terrific 24, 29, 31, 34, 35 & 43.

Alternative Comics Covers:
Archer & Armstrong 0, 3-8, 10-12
Backlash 8
Bloodshot 1
Deathblow 16
Eternal Warrior 6-8
Exiles 3
Firearm 2
Freex 4
Gen 13 (second series) 2
Grifter 1
Hardcase 5
Hard Corps 3 (inks)
Mantra 4
Mighty I - 1
Miracleman 23, 24
Night Man 1
Pathways to Fantasy 1
Predator Vs. Magnus 1, 2
Prime 5
Prototype 3
Rune 0-6, 9, Giant-Size 1
Rune/Silver Surfer 1
Rune: The Spin Special Edition 1
Sludge 1
Solar, Man of the Atom 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 10, 19 (inks)
Solution 2
Star-Reach 7
Stormwatch 22
Strangers 5
Team 7 - 1
Union 4
Unity 0, 1
Wetworks 8
WildC.A.T.S. 20
Wildstorm Rising 1, 2
Wizard 7
X-O Manowar 2, 4?, 5

Magazine and Fanzine Covers, All Publishers:
Ariel 2
Cartoonists’ and Illustrators’ Portfolio (magazine) 1
Comic Art Convention program Book 1978 (part cover)
Comics Buyer’s Guide 1201
Comics Journal 190
Comics Scene - part 4
Conan Saga 1-8
Epic 7, 16
Marvel Treasury Edition 4, 15
Marvelmania 2
Ragnarok 3
Savage Sword of Conan 122
Spectrum 11
Storyteller 1-9
Warrior (original series) 3

Miscellaneous Covers:
Byrds “Preflight” album cover
K’ing Kung Fu paperback series:
#1 - Son of the Flying Tiger
#2 - Return of the Opium Wars
#3 - The Rape of Sun Lee Fong
#4 - The Kak-Abdullah Conspiracy
Machine Man (softcover book)
Swords of Cerebus 5

SCRIPTS
Marvel Comics Scripts:
Conan 25 (co-plot)
Conan Vs. Rune 1
Iron Man 232 (co-plot)
Marvel Comics Presents 72-82
Marvel Fanfare 15
Marvel Premiere 3 (plot)
X-Men 186, 205 (co-plot in both)

Alternative Comics Scripts:
Archer & Armstrong 3-8, 10-12
Cerebus 21 (letter)
Eternal Warrior 6-8
Rune (co-scripts) 1-6
Rune: The Spin Special Edition 1 (co-script)
Wildstorm Rising 1 (co-plot)

Magazine and Fanzine Scripts:
Amazing Heroes 100 (Tribute to Jack Kirby)
Storyteller 1-9

Book Script:
Swords of Cerebus 5

(This list was compiled by Craig Miller of Spectrum Magazine, and is
forwarded by permission)

[AnthonyF]

X-O Manowar 1 (layouts)

Yeah, the published issue credits
Layouts: Barry Windsor-Smith
Finished Art: Bob Layton with John Holdredge

Heck, Barry's not even listed for this issue, on Valiant Fans
http://www.valiantfan.com/valiant/issue.asp?cn=835



The solicits couldn't even get it straight, Previews mention BWS as designer, no mention of layouts.

[jay]

Heck, Barry's not even listed for this issue, on Valiant Fans
http://www.valiantfan.com/valiant/issue.asp?cn=835

That's because he just did the layouts. Layton and Holdredge were credited with the art that saw publication. Even Joey listed Barry's contribution as "layouts" when he sold his page way back when from X-O issue 1. Please someone contradict me, I think I have a page or two from this issue that I would like to get $2K apiece for.

[AnthonyF]

Heck, Barry's not even listed for this issue, on Valiant Fans
http://www.valiantfan.com/valiant/issue.asp?cn=835

That's because he just did the layouts. Layton and Holdredge were credited with the art that saw publication. Even Justin listed Barry's contribution as "layouts" when he sold his page way back when from X-O issue 1. Please someone contradict me, I think I have a page or two from this issue that I would like to get $2K apiece for.

I'll step up.

Granted all art prices could be considered stupid. But why are you so strongly questioning this auction? Do you think someone is intentionally manipulating the market, to increase the value of X-O 1 pages?

I'm sure you paid less for your pages, but a seller would be crazy not to auction his pages now. I understand your history in the market, but I wonder if your comparisons are dated.

This page sold for 2K. Plus two pages from this issue recently sold for over $1,500 each on ebay (2011 and 2013). Those are all public sales. Heck, BWS is asking 2K for a page he has available too.

[jay]

I responded that it was a dumb price to pay in my opinion on that piece. I don't think I have attacked this auction. Do I think BWS art in general should be going for $2K a page on random pages. Probably not. But if it does, Great.

The X-O 1 BWS Layout issue has been there for a long time. If BWS did actual pencil artwork that was not erased, (or lightboxed from rough layouts), but was actually inked over by Layton, then it is BWS art. I guess you could argue that lightboxing rough layouts would give some influence to the piece, but really aren't you again then talking about Layton's art that would be just using BWS's layouts as a rough guide and essentially Layton's original interpretation of those guides. Layouts are called layouts for a reason. They're just a rough sketch.

It doesn't matter if BWS art is going for $20K a page or $200, the layouts themselves would be the only BWS art involved, pre-production art. Maybe I'm just too strict about what I call art, I don't want enhanced art that was not published and I don't want to refer any of my published art to an artist that did just did layouts that were the guide for the actual artist. Or were perhaps attributed as a marketing ploy for the first issue of a book. Rough layouts are generally not considered published art, they were a part of the production process.

I'm curious now. All I would like to know is the answer to the question why BWS was attributed to just "layouts" in the issue and what if any involvement did his actual art/layouts have in the final published version. Great if he did the actual pencil art and it was traced by Layton. If he didn't, great, it is still good looking art.

Out of touch with prices, normally I'm either the highest bidder or second bidder (ok sometimes 3rd) on most of the decent V1 auctions that come up.

Heck, Barry's not even listed for this issue, on Valiant Fans
http://www.valiantfan.com/valiant/issue.asp?cn=835

That's because he just did the layouts. Layton and Holdredge were credited with the art that saw publication. Even Justin listed Barry's contribution as "layouts" when he sold his page way back when from X-O issue 1. Please someone contradict me, I think I have a page or two from this issue that I would like to get $2K apiece for.

I'll step up.

Granted all art prices could be considered stupid. But why are you so strongly questioning this auction? Do you think someone is intentionally manipulating the market, to increase the value of X-O 1 pages?

I'm sure you paid less for your pages, but a seller would be crazy not to auction his pages now. I understand your history in the market, but I wonder if your comparisons are dated.

This page sold for 2K. Plus two pages from this issue recently sold for over $1,500 each on ebay (2011 and 2013). Those are all public sales. Heck, BWS is asking 2K for a page he has available too.

[jay]

By the way, this is what the purpose of this sub-forum is supposed to be, discussing Valiant art. Thank god we have a few decent discussions going again.

[AnthonyF]

By the way, this is what the purpose of this sub-forum is supposed to be, discussing Valiant art. Thank god we have a few decent discussions going again.

Glad to hear your opinions on Valiant art.

[AnthonyF]

For me, these pages with Aric in the X-O armor are a premium. I wouldn't expect a non armor from issue 1 to hit half of the price. I want an armor page, darn it!!

Are you familiar with the Frank Miller DareDevil layout controversy? Initially Frank drew full pencils on the art board for his issues. Later on, he only provided layouts on small paper (9x11?) and those were used by Klaus Jansen as the basis for the pencils. But many collectors/dealers still list those pages as having Frank Miller pencils. Buyers should educate themselves before paying for a "Frank Miller" Daredevil page.

If Barry penciled directly on the art page, then I would be happy to consider the page as BWS art, even if the pencils were erased (surely some if not all pencils get erased). So, in that way, I'm more lenient on the layout artist. Besides, once the inker is done, the pencils are faint if not completely gone.

I didn't consider BWS layouts as controversial till now. I figured Barry penciled the book with loose blue pencils, with Layton inking directly over his pencils, and tightening up details where needed. It makes me curious now too... Anybody want to shoot Bob an email?

[AnthonyF]

Jim Shooter references Barry drawing X-O in this interview, and I underlined a few lines.
Plus below is a short reference to BWS layouts.

http://www.valiantcomics.com/valiant/joe/shooter/

Anyway, the idea for X-O was batted around. Barry (Windsor Smith) had agreed to draw it, provided I got the plot to him by that Saturday morning! So I came into the office early on that Saturday (I worked seven days a week), and I wrote the plot for #1 in one sitting, in an hour or two.

Why was X-O Manowar #1 28 pages?

I had to literally plot it in 2 hours. Barry demanded a plot page-by-page and pretty much panel-by-panel, so I did it, and once it became apparent somewhere in the second hour that the story would go too long, I didn't have time to go back and rewrite it to make it shorter. That happened a lot, because I was writing all this stuff flying by the seat of my pants, on every single one. I didn't have time to sit down and go through the process of plotting it out, and if it's 26 pages, rewriting it to make it fit (many of the pre-Unity books ran over 21 pages and no one ever knew why). But I was doing all of it by the seat of my pants and keeping all the continuity in my head. They ran long, but I got the plot for X-O #1 off to Barry and he liked it and drew it. I wrote the first 6 pages of the book... I was desperate to get out of the writer's seat. Good writers are hard to come by. Steve Engelhart turned up and needed work and I gave him a try. So he picked X-O #1 up from page 7 on and wrote it for a while, but Steve just wasn't interested in keeping continuity. He wasn’t used to dealing with realistic science, and it just was the wrong fit. He's good writer, but did not fit with what we were trying to do.

You told me before that you went with that style of art from the start because you couldn't afford to get the "hot artists". If you had stayed with VALIANT and reaped some of its success and profits, would you switch to the flashy artists or stay with the style you were doing?

I couldn't afford the big name artists in the beginning, but if I could have, I would have made them do the straightforward storytelling I prefer. Some, no doubt, would have refused, but some would have agreed as Barry Windsor-Smith did. Notice that his panel layouts for me were as I like, not the artsier type he prefers. I humored him on many things, but I drew the line there. What I was trying to get across was that doing Image/Marvel type books was never even an option early on. When we were making big money, of course, I would have tried to get the best artists I could, but only if they'd do the work my way- storytelling first.

[AnthonyF]

Plus

So, as things were going along slowly. I couldn't pay these people very much, especially the staff people. And so, I often rewarded them with extra credit on the books, credit they didn’t necessarily deserve. I put Bob's name first on the Solar credits and such...It's annoying now, though, that people like Bob take credit for what I did, and that people are willing to believe them. See, we couldn't afford artists

Hm... asking Bob may not give us a conclusive answer...