Harbinger #20 Discussion

[lorddunlow]

Let's take this to the Things we don't discuss forum and we can take the gloves off. Leave this thread for Harbinger discussion... And my inane comments.

[Captain Craig]

AGAIN, I'm not saying humankind SHOULDN'T be stewards of the environment and take EVERY SINGLE precaution when accessing the resources of the globe. I'm saying that if you STILL believe that man-made global warming(a made up problem) is the SAME as actual Global Warming/Cooling( processes that happen due to long standing natural and/or cosmic factors) then you need to re-examine things and get logical vs emotional on the matter.

I think you are getting too emotional about this subject.

Pot or Kettle. The same could be said on the other side of the coin my dear sir.
Don't confuse my persistence with being emotional.

You are looking for things to support your conspiracy viewpoint.

One need only not be blind to see that which is there to be seen.
Did you read the Forbes article? You didn't say?

I think there are legitimate argument(s) about the degree and urgency of the problem and the best policy responses

Yes, I was attempting such. If you, or anyone, fails to be logical and not accept that without fail or rebuttle that it's been shown agencies reporting to the IPCC, who report to the UN, have falsified data then how can we truly know what the best, it any, policy responses should be taken?

That article in part mentions how those caught with their pants down attempted to deflect the attention away from their transgressions by making the "deniers" look bad. But that backfired. That's why you get replies like SJS4. Ridicule is not an informed or intellectual response.

But if you are saying man is not a contributing factor to global warming and no policy response including to curb CO2 emissions is needed - than I think we will just agree to disagree.

I'm not saying it. It's not confirmed or proven. I find it very interesting how the one piece you seek to pull out from my post involves nothing for you to question or dispute. You choose to question if I'm the one being logical or emotional. I'll take that as a consideration that at least you give pause to the quotes on the matter.

Now that that matter as it relates to one panel in this months Harbinger has been addressed I'm sure we can find more panels to further discuss.

[lorddunlow]

I tire of this.

[Captain Craig]

Pick another topic from the issue and point us in a discussion and speculation about that.

[iwantvaliant]

So... great issue. Just finished it and I'm looking forward to the next issue. Ax is going to be a great character.

Sorry to interrupt your stupid argument with my quick thoughts on the book. Carry on.

[jmatt]

I tire of this.

Oops. I did it again.

Okay, here's my new policy: If Valiant puts political stuff in a book, for the sake of comity and board camaraderie, I will start a separate whine down in the Everything Else section.

[lorddunlow]

So... great issue. Just finished it and I'm looking forward to the next issue. Ax is going to be a great character.

Sorry to interrupt your stupid argument with my quick thoughts on the book. Carry on.

I hope @x is not a psiot.

[Shadowman99]

Well, I'm not going to take this climate change thing any further, because Captain Craig appears to be unwilling to change his opinion. And I'm not commenting on that either because I'm not opening this can of worms any further than I already have. Why?: There's no point. There's a ton more I could easily say on the subject, but it'll be redundant falling on deaf ears.

Anyway, this whole 'real universe'/'fantasy universe' thing seems a more applicable thing to discuss on a comic forum.

...Harada claiming dominance of the world. Ironically, that not only highlights his hypocrisy in denying Aric his forceful claim of a single country, but puts him on a whole new level above that by claiming his own sovereignty of the entire world.

Harada believes in his moral superiority. He doesn't feel he is being hypocritical - He feels his ultimate intention of creating a Utopian, peaceful world without Wars separates him from someone like Aric.

Absolutely, I'm sure that's exactly the way that Harada views the matter and he doesn't feel hypocritical. However, once his motivation/justification is disregarded, his basic act exactly the same as Aric's, only on a considerably larger scale.

Harada and Aric are paralled at this particular point in time. On one side you have the unintelligent, brutish, ignorant character of Aric, and on the other you have the intelligent, deceptive, informed character of Harada, and yet in this particular issue, they're both performing the exact same act of forceful possession, albeit on different geographical scale. I just found this interesting really


And I like your thoughts on the parallel reality issue, especially the pop culture reference bit. I think that if done well, it could actually be really good. Your example of the Bob Dylan song puts me strongly in mind of Watchmen: If VEI can craft the 'alternative' reality as well as Alan Moore did in Watchmen, it could be very interesting indeed.

[Dallow Spicer1]

Superb issue, Dysart consistent and on top form yet again. Grabbed my interest from page 1 and kept it til the end. Art was very good too.

This new version of Ax is far better than the original (who, became increasingly ridiculous as VH1 time went by). Not sure why VEI needs to keep using names of C list characters from VH1, the concepts aren't particularly unique so just give them new names (as they look significantly different anyway)?

One thing about Harada's physical appearance confuses me...his real physical appearance is the old version of him (based on his actual age) right? So why the need to appear as a 40+ yr old when he's not in the public eye and he's around his employees? Or have I got this confused??

Great issue 4.5/5

[Captain Craig]

Well, I'm not going to take this climate change thing any further, because Captain Craig appears to be unwilling to change his opinion. And I'm not commenting on that either because I'm not opening this can of worms any further than I already have. Why?: There's no point. There's a ton more I could easily say on the subject, but it'll be redundant falling on deaf ears.

Ditto....and ditto.
But if you have tons of material drop it off in the Anything/Everything area. There is a 9page thread full of reading that posters have been accumulating for a few years now.

I notice no one made any significant attempt to show proof beyond a wiki article that mentions data from the IPCC who in turn got info from sources who have been proven to falsify data. Didn't even get a "yeah, ok, that was bad but....look at this". Nothing just snobbery ridicule, or what one does when they have nothing but want to feel like it's not worth their time.

[BugsySig]

Superb issue, Dysart consistent and on top form yet again. Grabbed my interest from page 1 and kept it til the end. Art was very good too.

This new version of Ax is far better than the original (who, became increasingly ridiculous as VH1 time went by). Not sure why VEI needs to keep using names of C list characters from VH1, the concepts aren't particularly unique so just give them new names (as they look significantly different anyway)?

One thing about Harada's physical appearance confuses me...his real physical appearance is the old version of him (based on his actual age) right? So why the need to appear as a 40+ yr old when he's not in the public eye and he's around his employees? Or have I got this confused??

Great issue 4.5/5

At this point I can't tell which is the real Harada. He reverts to "old" Harada during the mind squall, so that would seem to be his natural appearance. So that means appearing younger is just vanity.

If it wasn't for the mind squall scenes, though, I'd almost think he has slowed his aging and uses "old" Harada only as his public persona.

[Dallow Spicer1]

Superb issue, Dysart consistent and on top form yet again. Grabbed my interest from page 1 and kept it til the end. Art was very good too.

This new version of Ax is far better than the original (who, became increasingly ridiculous as VH1 time went by). Not sure why VEI needs to keep using names of C list characters from VH1, the concepts aren't particularly unique so just give them new names (as they look significantly different anyway)?

One thing about Harada's physical appearance confuses me...his real physical appearance is the old version of him (based on his actual age) right? So why the need to appear as a 40+ yr old when he's not in the public eye and he's around his employees? Or have I got this confused??

Great issue 4.5/5

At this point I can't tell which is the real Harada. He reverts to "old" Harada during the mind squall, so that would seem to be his natural appearance. So that means appearing younger is just vanity.

If it wasn't for the mind squall scenes, though, I'd almost think he has slowed his aging and uses "old" Harada only as his public persona.

Yeah, I know what you mean. Will the real Harada please step forward??

[SJS4]

[bygranddesign]

Superb issue, Dysart consistent and on top form yet again. Grabbed my interest from page 1 and kept it til the end. Art was very good too.

This new version of Ax is far better than the original (who, became increasingly ridiculous as VH1 time went by). Not sure why VEI needs to keep using names of C list characters from VH1, the concepts aren't particularly unique so just give them new names (as they look significantly different anyway)?

One thing about Harada's physical appearance confuses me...his real physical appearance is the old version of him (based on his actual age) right? So why the need to appear as a 40+ yr old when he's not in the public eye and he's around his employees? Or have I got this confused??

Great issue 4.5/5

At this point I can't tell which is the real Harada. He reverts to "old" Harada during the mind squall, so that would seem to be his natural appearance. So that means appearing younger is just vanity.

If it wasn't for the mind squall scenes, though, I'd almost think he has slowed his aging and uses "old" Harada only as his public persona.

Yeah, I know what you mean. Will the real Harada please step forward??

I was thinking about this also ... Harada, Mind Squall, His changing appearance

I wonder what Dysart's end game is with this? - It looks as though Harada's biology is very different than even the normal Psiot.

Is age really just a number to him?

When he is at full strength - he looks young and vital.

When he is weakened - he reverts to his "natural" older state

When he goes out in public he just projects his older self to keep up the illusion that he ages the same as a normal human.

But his normal everyday appearance, when running the Harbinger Foundation, is that of his younger self. That seems to be his normal state when he is at full strength. So I wonder if as long as his mind stays sharp - he can theoretically live forever. Perhaps the mind squalls - and his need to go into those Sleep states - are his only kryptonite.

Which led me to another thought and theory about the Great Destroyer...

Perhaps the great destroyer is Peter Stanchek having his first mind squall?

Not sure if that has been speculated on before ... but I think it makes sense.

What makes Harada different from other Psiots?? He was born activated.

So was Peter and so was Darpan

All 3 are extremely powerful ... and perhaps Peter and eventually Darpan will be susceptible to going through a Mind Squall as well

Peter not as disciplined as Harada (and perhaps with more raw psychic power) could have a mind squall that could devastate the world

[lorddunlow]

Harada was not born activated. That's just a lie he tells his pupils/disciples. He was activated by the stress of the bombing of Hiroshima.

[bygranddesign]

Harada was not born activated. That's just a lie he tells his pupils/disciples. He was activated by the stress of the bombing of Hiroshima.

Maybe your right ... but something makes him significantly different from the normal every day Psiot. Peter is similar to him in terms of the range of psychic abilities he has ...so I wouldn't be surprised if he has the potential to go through a Mind Squall and that might be why he becomes the Great Destroyer .

[AnthonyF]

I'm looking forward to seeing the series return to the bleeding monk story. I'm not convinced we can trust him, and his Great Destroyer visions.

Also, any body else think the beginning of this issue seems like a Harada prefect day simulation. Especially in light of Strongholds issues?

[lorddunlow]

I'm looking forward to seeing the series return to the bleeding monk story. I'm not convinced we can trust him, and his Great Destroyer visions.

+1

[bygranddesign]

He's coming in March!



No regular Harbinger issue that month ... so perhaps he will tie into the 2nd half of the resistance arc..?

[jmatt]

He's coming in March!

Cool!

[lorddunlow]

I love that cover.

[kjjohanson]

One quibble: the reference to the new shipping lanes opening up due to less pack ice.

There is record pack ice around both poles presently. If they're going to bother to pepper the books with "the world outside your window" it may as well, ya know, actually be factual stuff, not the fondest desires of the climate alarmists.

I'll leave it at that.

Where do you get that data? The NSIDC is reporting below average sea ice (4th lowest on record) for the Arctic currently; and while the coverage for the Antarctic is above average, it's not clear that it's a record.

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2014/ ... mpy-climb/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I will agree that as that bit of info was not integral to the story, it would have been better if it had been left out.

[kjjohanson]

There is no definitive proof, there are theories about man-made global warming.

Aaaaand…this is where I stopped reading. Because it's pointless trying to have an argument/debate with someone who doesn't understand basic scientific concepts, such as "theory." When a scientist uses the term "theory," he or she is referring to a good working model we have of how something works, based on the best available data and extensive peer review. He or she does not use the term in the sense of "I reckon that…"

The single panel in the issue saying Arctic sea lanes have opened up due to global warming is VEI spreading liberal propaganda.
You know the ship that got stuck in the Arctic for 2-3weeks over the December/New Years span that made such news? You know what was NOT reported 98% of the time? That they were on a fact finding mission to prove the "alleged" thiner ice sheets. Surprise, surprise when they got stuck and it's thicker than ever.

Okay, I lied. I didn't stop reading there. Quick geography lesson; the Arctic is in the north, where the panel in this comic takes place, which is currently experiencing below average sea ice coverage for the period in which we have data. Where the ship got stuck was the Antarctic, which is in the south, which is an entirely different part of the planet.

Do more research. And I don't mean watch more John Stewart.

But that run of Mosaic was soooooooo good.

[Scarlet-Batman]

I don't trust this Ax character. He obviously has ulterior motives. My bet is that he will be the Gaius Baltar of the Renegades.

Solid issue. I find it crazy that Harada goes public. This will indeed be a massive game changer for the entire Valiant Universe. How will people react when they come to realize psiosts live amongst them, and worse yet, use and abuse their powers with absolutely zero deterrants or punishments. Mass panic and rampant paranoia will rule nthe day. Thousands of innocents will be lynched for suspected crimes...

I think the Renegades need to hit up a tailor and make some new clothes because Harbinger is going to become super unpopular..

[magnusr]

So, when is "Soon"? This will change everything.

I am surprised how well the part with Ax worked. Like everyone else I never liked the old one. Will be interesting to see what becomes of the new version.

Since we're spotting oddities. The laureate being on route just hours after the Nobel prize ceremony, and thus skipping the honorary concert the following day, is so unusual that I assume it's a mistake, especially as the ceremony part otherwise felt well researched.

/Magnus