DCBS has dropped price on Valiant variants.

[drmirage]

I'm glad they are atleast honoring the price instead of a cancellation.

[magnusr]

The new books are up at DCBS and this month they list the impossibly high prices from the beginning. Pity.

/Magnus

[bobby97801]

The new books are up at DCBS and this month they list the impossibly high prices from the beginning. Pity.

/Magnus

They won't sell any at those prices.

[cjv]

You would think that after a year, they would have a pretty good idea about pricing them and NOT deplete their stock, but also not be stuck with them!

Chris

[brucehartshorn]

Went there hoping that at the start of the ordering month they would repeat what they did last month, but did not happen. Back to $40 for a 1:20 variant. Hope they enjoy their inventory cause I can't see many getting sold at those rates.

[Dr. Solar]

DCBS just emailed me that the 1:50s would be limited to only 1 per customer. Bummer.

Me too. Pure bullcrap.

Actually, NOT bullcrap.

You all sound like a bunch of entitled little brats.

DCBS does a GREAT job at trying to set the prices of their variants correctly. They have to order $100 worth of books to get one of the 1:50 variants. $100 is a reasonable price. They try to gauge how many of these regular books they will also sell, so they can lower the price, with the sale of the regular books making up the difference.

DCBS doesn't have "secret" access to unlimited variants. They have to order 50 books to get the 1:50, just like everyone else. That costs them REAL AMERICAN DOLLARS. When they lower the prices, it is with the expectation that their customers will maybe order a copy.

NOT that everyone from this site is gonna rush over and order more than one copy.

When you do that, you are being a jerk to DCBS, and to other regular DCBS customers.

The new books are up at DCBS and this month they list the impossibly high prices from the beginning. Pity.

I hope you all realize that YOU ALL caused this. YOU.

When they drop variants to a reasonable price, then YOU ALL flock to the site and buy multiple copies, YOU have caused this price increase.

DCBS is only responding to an IMPOSSIBLE economic position that YOU have put them in.

If I sound frustrated by this, it is because I AM. I am very disappointed at the behavior demonstrated in this thread.

Get it together. Don't be jerks.

[JonesyAZ]

To comment further on Doc's response,

The prices on these variants comes down to economics. And while I can understand everyone's frustration with paying higher prices to obtain the ever-elusive "complete" Valiant collection, what the experience of saving up and buying a coveted variant should bring you is satisfaction!

I remember when some of the initial 1:50s came out, I was surprised by how much my comic shop was pricing them at. But when you think about the amount of money these retailers are paying to get them, you should be thankful for what they are offering them for. In my LCS’s example, they had the Harbinger 1:50 for $50! Which is a steal, if you think about it! They could have inflated the price well-beyond what they physically paid to get this copy, but they offered it to the customer for what they paid. And I gladly bought it, because I love the cover, and I wanted to support my shop 

I think that DCBS is doing the best that they can to ensure that they are stocking their site with these rarer books as a true service to the collector 

Now personally, I cannot afford to buy the 1:50’s or the 1:100’s like many others can. But when I have had the money, I will put it towards a variant that would bring me joy of being a Valiant fan and collector. Plus, I try to buy them from my LCS, which is a preference.

What I have found as time has gone on since Valiant Entertainment began releasing books is that only save up and buy those books that bring you joy, and let it go that you may not be able to complete a full collection. Collecting should be a fun experience

[cjv]

My comment was not directed at the fact that the prices are high.

It was more directed at the fact they fluctuate and can't seem to "settle" on a pre-sale price.

Presumably, at the double ratio price (such as $40 for a 1:20 book), they have some left over.

That's why they lowered the price initially last month. $20 for a 1:20 book. But that price was lower than the expected market price, so people flocked to by them. so they raised the prices back to the double ratio price.

Surely there is some level in between - where they will sell the ones they want, but not then have to lower the price again in a few months to sell them! With 12 months of data (almost) surely you can come up with an reasonably accurate estimate for market value.

Chris

[VEI Reborn]

DCBS just emailed me that the 1:50s would be limited to only 1 per customer. Bummer.

Me too. Pure bullcrap.

Actually, NOT bullcrap.

You all sound like a bunch of entitled little brats.

DCBS does a GREAT job at trying to set the prices of their variants correctly. They have to order $100 worth of books to get one of the 1:50 variants. $100 is a reasonable price. They try to gauge how many of these regular books they will also sell, so they can lower the price, with the sale of the regular books making up the difference.

DCBS doesn't have "secret" access to unlimited variants. They have to order 50 books to get the 1:50, just like everyone else. That costs them REAL AMERICAN DOLLARS. When they lower the prices, it is with the expectation that their customers will maybe order a copy.

NOT that everyone from this site is gonna rush over and order more than one copy.

When you do that, you are being a jerk to DCBS, and to other regular DCBS customers.

The new books are up at DCBS and this month they list the impossibly high prices from the beginning. Pity.

I hope you all realize that YOU ALL caused this. YOU.

When they drop variants to a reasonable price, then YOU ALL flock to the site and buy multiple copies, YOU have caused this price increase.

DCBS is only responding to an IMPOSSIBLE economic position that YOU have put them in.

If I sound frustrated by this, it is because I AM. I am very disappointed at the behavior demonstrated in this thread.

Get it together. Don't be jerks.

I do not appreciate someone calling me names and I will spend my money how I see fit. Hell I will even wipe my butt with it if I so choose. If that means I am a jerk than you are a communist.

A simple solution would be for DCBS to put a 1 purchase limit on each variant. Its not rocket science and numerous companies do it. What chaps the *SQUEE* is when weeks later a customer finds their order to be cut.

With that being said, I fully understand your point. You may even be spot on but maybe try expressing your frustration without calling people names next time. You are more likely to get your point across that way.

I would also like to point out that I am fine with the higher prices. Anyone that knows me knows that money has never been an issue with me when buying something I want. The issue here for me is accepting my order at a certain price and than cutting it weeks later.

[magnusr]

The new books are up at DCBS and this month they list the impossibly high prices from the beginning. Pity.

I hope you all realize that YOU ALL caused this. YOU.

When they drop variants to a reasonable price, then YOU ALL flock to the site and buy multiple copies, YOU have caused this price increase.

Not "YOU ALL". And I have the order emails to prove it. It is not in the interest of DCBS to scare away customers and that's what they are doing with these prices. Thus "Pity". Take me for instance. In the beginning they charged even more than this for the variants. I wanted a good place to buy from (my LCS does not get variants) and I was willing even to pay $50 for a book they earned by buying regulars for $40. But in the end I got tired of being taken advantage of and dropped them.

I was happy when they changed to fair prices and I went back to buying one of each (including the regulars). No multiples. So your wording adds insult to something that is already frustrating. I do realize what has happened, but you should not accuse everyone. And surely you agree that it is a pity? It's a pity that DCBS scares away customers from whom they could earn money. It's a pity that we customers can not find a reliable source for our books. And most of all it's a pity that the regulars don't sell as well.

There is also the question of books that earn multiple limited versions. If they buy 100 Harbinger 15 they qualify for 2 1:50s and 5 1:20s. THat should factor in as well, unless they don't sell a single regular nor 1:20. And if they don't, then I really stand by my wording. That's really a pity. This situation is frustrating and I could have worded it a lot stronger.

/Magnus

[drmirage]

I agree with VEI Reborn as I have sold him several books and $ was never an issue.

But lets chill out guys.

I will admit to be one of the people who ordered multiple copies.

I ordered 4 copies of each of the variants.

[greg]

The new books are up at DCBS and this month they list the impossibly high prices from the beginning. Pity.

I hope you all realize that YOU ALL caused this. YOU.

When they drop variants to a reasonable price, then YOU ALL flock to the site and buy multiple copies, YOU have caused this price increase.

You want to see my orders? In the beginning they earned good money on me even if they threw away all regulars. So I got fed up and dropped them. It is not entitlement to want to pay less than $50 for a book they earn by buying regulars for $40. So I was happy when they changed to fair prices and I went back to buying one of each (including the regulars, even though I already pay my LCS $6 each for those). So skip the "ALL". I do realize what has happened, but you should not accuse everyone. And how can you not agree that it is a pity, regardless of how it happened?

And you forget the books with multiple limited versions. If they buy 100 Harbinger 15 they qualify for 2 1:50s and 5 1:20s. You don't think they sell a single regular nor 1:20? If they don't, then I really stand by my wording. That's really a pity. This situation is very frustrating and you should accept that others put that into words.

/Magnus

Let's do the math real quick.

A retailer investment of $200 will purchase 100 regular copies of a VEI book at the retailer discount ($2 per book).
Let's say that those 100 regular copies are totally unwanted, and none of them will be sold. Total loss.

At that point, the retailer has $200 invested in two copies of a 1:50 variant and five copies of a 1:20 variant.
That's $50 invested in each 1:50 and $20 invested in each 1:20.

Since everyone is ordering the variants, it probably doesn't take long for DCBS to have regulars they can't immediately sell.
So, even though there's all kind of potential to sell those "free" regulars at $3.99 or even for $0.10 each, eventually, it's not practical
to expect a retailer to be able to get rid of hundreds of extra copies of regular issues in a profitable way... they're basically worthless.

In order to turn a profit, the 1:50 must be sold for over $50 each and the 1:20 must be sold for over $20 each.

[Elveen]

I wonder what percentage of non variants they sell per variant.

[greg]

I wonder what percentage of non variants they sell per variant.

I'd bet it's less of a percentage and more of a flat number. Once they reach it, all the others are 'extra'.

[lorddunlow]

I agree with VEI Reborn as I have sold him several books and $ was never an issue.

But lets chill out guys.

I will admit to be one of the people who ordered multiple copies.

I ordered 4 copies of each of the variants.

B@stard!

[caniac]

Still *SQUEE* I missed the boat on this

[400yrs]

I agree with greg's post above, but not iust worthless, but costly as well. I'm sure they are sitting on a lot of regulars and that takes up space which costs money. You can't expect any shop to want to sit on stock after the debacle that was the 90s crash.

Dcbservice is doing what they have to do and what they should be doing. IMO, VEI should consider lowering the ratios on these variants for the sake of their consumers and retailers. I said that a while ago as well. I understand that selling more regular copies helps VEI revenue-wise, but that is only temporary until people start to get frustrated (as is happening now) and eventually tired and indifferent. That house of cards will fall very fast.

VEI should just stop worrying about so many variants and should put that time, money and effort toward improving their paper quaoity and content quality (looking at you Shadowman).

[drmirage]

I agree with Greg's math, however Valiant has an incentive for retailers in June 2013 Previews - Valiant for August 2013 (with covers)

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=40217" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bloodshot #0
(NOTE: Match or Exceed 100% of your total order of Bloodshot #10 [reg. & pullbox] and receive an additional 10% discount. Match or Exceed 125% of your total order of Bloodshot #10 and receive and additional 15% discount.)

Quantum & Woody #2
(NOTE: Retailers who match or exceed 75% of their total orders of Quantum & Woody #1 [reg. & pullbox] receive an additional 15% discount.)

Harbinger #15
(NOTE: Match or Exceed 100% of your total order of Harbinger #11 [reg. & pullbox] and receive an additional 10% discount. Match or Exceed 125% of your total order of Harbinger #11 and receive and additional 15% discount.)

Lets give Harbinger #15 as an example. If the retailer matched or exceed 125% of Harbinger #11 they will receive a 15% discount.

Instead of spending $200 for 100 Books, the retailer will only need to spend $170 with the 15% discount.

In order to turn a profit, the 1:50 can be sold for over $42.50 each and the 1:20 can be sold for over $17 each.

[Dr. Solar]

I do not intend to call people names. However, I do intend to shed light on how one person's behavior may impact another's.

I was very frustrated when I wrote my earlier post. Frustrated as I always am when I read this thread, and others like it. I didn't mean to offend, but I worded my earlier post stronger than I normally would have out of frustration.

It is frustrating to be a regular DCBS customer, that orders every month, and has for many years, and see the prices fluctuate so much because every time they lower the prices to what may seem "reasonable", it appears that a number of people who aren't regular customers flood the site with orders.

It seems that some people don't understand the economics of the pre-order system, and jump in to take advantage when they attempt to do a good thing for their customers. This may not be true, but from the words written in this thread, that was how it appeared to be.

My earlier post is not directed towards people that order from DCBS every month, regardless of whether they get the variant or not. It is directed to the people that increase the number of variants they order when the price drops, or the people that only place an order with DCBS when the price on variants drops.

DCBS does not sell product that they have on inventory. They are a service that allows customers to pre-order books, which they then act as the middle man for. They do their best to estimate their orders, and charge in advance the correct amount for variants, based on their estimated orders for variants and regular issues.

When people order excessive amounts of variants, and jump in as customers only for the variants, DCBS only has a couple reasonable responses: they can raise the prices, which ruins it for everybody, and they can limit quantities, which ruins it for everybody.

The pie is only so big. There is not an unlimited amount of pie. All that I am asking is that we don't all try to pig out on the pie, so there is enough to go around for everybody that wants some.

When I read about behavior that appears to be people hogging the pie, I get frustrated, and a bit angry. Traditionally, one of the best things about this forum is the spirit of helping each other out, and a sense of us all being in this fandom together. The behavior that appeared to be happening, based on what I read in this thread, is antithetical to that.

I don't want to be disappointed when I come to this forum. I want us all to share the pie.

[lorddunlow]

I could go for some pie. Is it Key lime? I really like Key lime pie.

[400yrs]

I do not intend to call people names. However, I do intend to shed light on how one person's behavior may impact another's.

I was very frustrated when I wrote my earlier post. Frustrated as I always am when I read this thread, and others like it. I didn't mean to offend, but I worded my earlier post stronger than I normally would have out of frustration.

It is frustrating to be a regular DCBS customer, that orders every month, and has for many years, and see the prices fluctuate so much because every time they lower the prices to what may seem "reasonable", it appears that a number of people who aren't regular customers flood the site with orders.

It seems that some people don't understand the economics of the pre-order system, and jump in to take advantage when they attempt to do a good thing for their customers. This may not be true, but from the words written in this thread, that was how it appeared to be.

My earlier post is not directed towards people that order from DCBS every month, regardless of whether they get the variant or not. It is directed to the people that increase the number of variants they order when the price drops, or the people that only place an order with DCBS when the price on variants drops.

DCBS does not sell product that they have on inventory. They are a service that allows customers to pre-order books, which they then act as the middle man for. They do their best to estimate their orders, and charge in advance the correct amount for variants, based on their estimated orders for variants and regular issues.

When people order excessive amounts of variants, and jump in as customers only for the variants, DCBS only has a couple reasonable responses: they can raise the prices, which ruins it for everybody, and they can limit quantities, which ruins it for everybody.

The pie is only so big. There is not an unlimited amount of pie. All that I am asking is that we don't all try to pig out on the pie, so there is enough to go around for everybody that wants some.

When I read about behavior that appears to be people hogging the pie, I get frustrated, and a bit angry. Traditionally, one of the best things about this forum is the spirit of helping each other out, and a sense of us all being in this fandom together. The behavior that appeared to be happening, based on what I read in this thread, is antithetical to that.

I don't want to be disappointed when I come to this forum. I want us all to share the pie.

I agree with your frustration. People jumping in on dcbs and snatching the variants while I, being a long time customer of theirs *SQUEE* me off. It's mm ot dcbs' s fault, but I stopped using them after the debacle that valiant and hoarders caused. Now, I couldn't give a *SQUEE* about the variants, but it is disappointing that some of their best covers aren't available to be seen or bought by fans. Make the rare ones just b&w of the other covers or something.

[brucehartshorn]

As a member who orders 1 of each issue and variant each month, here's my take on it.

Nobody is right or wrong in this. The basic law of supply and demand came into play last month when for a short time DCBS priced the 1:20s at $10.00 and the 1:50s at $20.00. This board, as it should, alerted fellow members to this most attractive pricing and the result is that DCBS had a solid demonstration that at a certain price point there was a large demand for variants. In hindsight and coupled with what others here have said about pricing, etc, DCBS was too aggressive with that pricing. Supply and demand came into play and prices were raised a few days later. VF.com members can't be blamed if they availed themselves of an attractive price. DCBS can't be blamed if they did not have enough inventory to fill variant demand. The natural response for DCBS was to raise prices to a point where supply could just meet demand. Higher prices in the form of 1:20s @ $40.00 and 1:50s at $100.00 each will most likely show that such pricing is too high and they will end up with more inventory than they expected. Economics will dictate where the correct price points are for these variants, especially since DCBS now has proof in the form of orders that the demand is out there from members and others. It will be their job as retailers to tweak their pricing to optimize their investment while not having prices so high that they are left with excess inventory.

It certainly is not a reason to call anyone names, or berate board members because they grabbed an opportunity that was presented to them. Nobody forced DCBS to offer these prices. I expect that if any of us was offered a $20.00 bill for $10.00 we would say "Yes" with great appreciation. We all want a bargain. Members who want to pay higher prices will. Those don't want to will not. Plain and simple. Members always have and I expect, given human nature, always will seek out the best pricing on any product that they can find. In a community such as this, where we DO all try to help each other, I would be disappointed if work of good pricing was not shared.

There was nothing evil done by the members taking advantage of a lower price which a seller put out there. DCBS tried something. They got tremendous response to it helping them gauge the market at a lower price for varaints. They now will do what they feel they need to in reaction to that information. We as buyers have the simple choice to purchase their product at the price listed or not. It is no more complicated than that.

[Dr. Solar]

The new books are up at DCBS and this month they list the impossibly high prices from the beginning. Pity.

I hope you all realize that YOU ALL caused this. YOU.

When they drop variants to a reasonable price, then YOU ALL flock to the site and buy multiple copies, YOU have caused this price increase.

Not "YOU ALL". And I have the order emails to prove it. It is not in the interest of DCBS to scare away customers and that's what they are doing with these prices. Thus "Pity". Take me for instance. In the beginning they charged even more than this for the variants. I wanted a good place to buy from (my LCS does not get variants) and I was willing even to pay $50 for a book they earned by buying regulars for $40. But in the end I got tired of being taken advantage of and dropped them.

I was happy when they changed to fair prices and I went back to buying one of each (including the regulars). No multiples. So your wording adds insult to something that is already frustrating. I do realize what has happened, but you should not accuse everyone. And surely you agree that it is a pity? It's a pity that DCBS scares away customers from whom they could earn money. It's a pity that we customers can not find a reliable source for our books. And most of all it's a pity that the regulars don't sell as well.

There is also the question of books that earn multiple limited versions. If they buy 100 Harbinger 15 they qualify for 2 1:50s and 5 1:20s. THat should factor in as well, unless they don't sell a single regular nor 1:20. And if they don't, then I really stand by my wording. That's really a pity. This situation is frustrating and I could have worded it a lot stronger.

/Magnus

I definitely misinterpreted where you were coming from with your comment.

I agree, it is a pity. I hope you, and everyone, understands that I am speaking out of frustration. It is frustration that I've had for a long time, and I'm sure I directed my frustration unfairly at you, Magnus, as well as others.

[caniac]

I only wanted the XO 1:50 and 1:20. I just can't afford to go after all the titles but I will have every XO book VEI puts out!

[drmirage]

Fellas.. I'm sure Doc is sorry and did not really intend to call anyone names. He was frustrated and a bit angry.

I know Doc personally and I know next time, he'll let everyone know when he's frustrated instead of just going off like that.

Doc is a great friend and a great asset to the Valiant community who deserves better and I hope he can be forgiven.

Maybe he still hates me for ordering 4 copies of each variant... Well.... Doc was one of the reasons I found out about DCBS from several years ago.