X-O Manowar #11 discussion thread

[BugsySig]

Good points. I thought the same thing about becoming sympathetic to the Vine as I read, though I still enjoyed them being slaughtered I also had the same thoughts about the art.

A few thoughts of my own:

1. Great surprise at the end. As I was reading the summary page on the inside cover I thought, "they keep saying Aric thought all his people were dead, including Gafti" Then, BAM!, there they were.

2. The warrior came from a land "Faraway" and taught them how to access the gatherings, which resembles the Akashic record in most ways. Could the warrior have been a human in the first place? Or I'll say something crazy: Could it have been Ivar?

Alright, now this is starting to percolate in my brain even more... I'll raise you one more level of crazy. What if Aric was the one who came to liberate the Vine from 'the Torment'?

What if at some point in the future, Ivar takes him into the past to save the Vine because it is something that has to be done? If Aric eventually comes to regret his actions in this Planet Death storyline, it would be very poetic if he was the one who had saved them in the past...

I just re-read the whole X-O Manowar series so far and I think there really is a possibility that the warrior from the faraway place could be human. Why? Because so far, we have seen Shanhara bond only with humans: Aric and Gafti. It never bonded with a Vine. I don't think the bonding is really about worthiness but actually more about genetic compatibility.

Agreed. While I do think that the XO technology seems to be advanced & versatile enough to be able to adapt to different, alien dna, I like the idea that it might have human origins... with time travel being possible in the Valiant Universe, a lot of other things are made possible as well...

What if Shanhara is like the sphere from "Sphere"?...Something that has no origin due to wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey stuff It just...IS.

[jmatt]

Agreed. While I do think that the XO technology seems to be advanced & versatile enough to be able to adapt to different, alien dna, I like the idea that it might have human origins... with time travel being possible in the Valiant Universe, a lot of other things are made possible as well...

Awhile back Greg noted that the X-O ball looks a lot like the sphere at the center of The Boon. What if it's the case that the Vine creation myth is more myth than they know? What if the traveler from Faraway brought the Boon X-O armor with him to Loam, dispatched the Torment and left it with them?

[jakgrimm]

To me this book was not at all as good as many of you have posted. The art in the 2nd half was rushed and un-detailed. The short amount of comic plot we had left after the origin story was burned up by mindless action. It was all filler, just like all these decompressed comics have been. I am disappointed. And the writers think bringing back the Visigoths at the end was a good plot twist?? Dude they did that exactly 2 issues ago! lol Let me guess - in 2 more issues Deidra will come back! watch out!

Do you really think the Vine would recognize the Visigoth people out of all the humans they have kidnapped over 1600 years and still keep them alive all this time? How are they still alive? They have been kidnapping humans for at least that long. This book has huge plot holes and bad editing mistakes. It is Shadowman's waitress girlfriend's name F up all over again. Does anyone still really think that Eternal Warriors scars go the opposite way in 1 or 2 pictures because he was scratched twice? lol. Its is poor editing plain and simple. Any other excuse at this point is purely damage control.

And how did Aric know his uncle ended up sacking Rome? He learned it in the woods of Peru? I know he could have learned it at any point from the armor, etc. but it would have been nice to see. This book is losing its appeal. The whole series feels like Elveen's "FEEL MY POWER!" and it is turning me away. I was going to wait and see if XO returns to Earth to the same time period as he left it, and if so I would drop the book due to inconsistencies but I don't think I can wait that long. This is probably the last XO issue I buy, and I was a HUGE Valiant fan before this. End rant.

[BugsySig]

To me this book was not at all as good as many of you have posted. The art in the 2nd half was rushed and un-detailed. The short amount of comic plot we had left after the origin story was burned up by mindless action. It was all filler, just like all these decompressed comics have been. I am disappointed. And the writers think bringing back the Visigoths at the end was a good plot twist?? Dude they did that exactly 2 issues ago! lol Let me guess - in 2 more issues Deidra will come back! watch out!
Do you really think the Vine would recognize the Visigoth people out of all the humans they have kidnapped over 1600 years and still keep them alive all this time? How are they still alive? They have been kidnapping humans for at least that long. This book has huge plot holes and bad editing mistakes. It is Shadowman's waitress girlfriend's name F up all over again. Does anyone still really think that Eternal Warriors scars go the opposite way in 1 or 2 pictures because he was scratched twice? lol. Its is poor editing plain and simple. Any other excuse at this point is purely damage control.
And how did Aric know his uncle ended up sacking Rome? He learned it in the woods of Peru? I know he could have learned it at any point from the armor, etc. but it would have been nice to see. This book is losing its appeal. The whole series feels like Elveen's "FEEL MY POWER!" and it is turning me away. This is probably the last XO issue I buy, and I was a HUGE Valiant fan before this. End rant.

I understand a few of your points, and agree on the art and the reuse of the plot twist...

But the Visigoths are still alive for the same reason Aric, Trill and the Priest are: time dilation. And the Vine haven't been taking humans the whole time, they only stopped there once, took the slaves and planted the seedlings. This was covered by Alexander during the Ninjak arc.

Also, Aric learned of the sacking of Rome when the armor downloaded all that info in issue 4. The date was given and he says so at the time.

[Carson]

To me this book was not at all as good as many of you have posted. The art in the 2nd half was rushed and un-detailed. The short amount of comic plot we had left after the origin story was burned up by mindless action. It was all filler, just like all these decompressed comics have been. I am disappointed. And the writers think bringing back the Visigoths at the end was a good plot twist?? Dude they did that exactly 2 issues ago! lol Let me guess - in 2 more issues Deidra will come back! watch out!

Do you really think the Vine would recognize the Visigoth people out of all the humans they have kidnapped over 1600 years and still keep them alive all this time? How are they still alive? They have been kidnapping humans for at least that long. This book has huge plot holes and bad editing mistakes. It is Shadowman's waitress girlfriend's name F up all over again. Does anyone still really think that Eternal Warriors scars go the opposite way in 1 or 2 pictures because he was scratched twice? lol. Its is poor editing plain and simple. Any other excuse at this point is purely damage control.

And how did Aric know his uncle ended up sacking Rome? He learned it in the woods of Peru? I know he could have learned it at any point from the armor, etc. but it would have been nice to see. This book is losing its appeal. The whole series feels like Elveen's "FEEL MY POWER!" and it is turning me away. I was going to wait and see if XO returns to Earth to the same time period as he left it, and if so I would drop the book due to inconsistencies but I don't think I can wait that long. This is probably the last XO issue I buy, and I was a HUGE Valiant fan before this. End rant.

It hasn't been 1600 years for those that were taken. 1600 years have passed on earth, only a few years have passed for the captives (and the vine). There's some complicated space travel time being different than earth time thing that Chiclo can explain. How did you miss that crucial part of the book? I mean, obviously Aric isn't 1600 years old, so neither would the rest of the captured Visigoths be.

As far as the waitress in Shadowman, well yeah, that's a pretty big editorial blunder. I didn't know they'd messed up EW's scars. That sucks too. You might have a point about sloppy editing. Also, Aric's lightning sword is supposed to generate from his regenerated left hand I believe. They seemingly never keep up with that.

If they need an OCD continuity editor me or you would be a good hire.

Sorry to hear you're dropping the book. Overall, it's been great fun for me.

[jakgrimm]

Thanks for your replies. Sorry I was harsh in my posting, but one thing I really liked about the old Valiant, and I think it was their signature, was that they were always on point with their consistency and editing. I mean Unity had zero plot twists.

I understand a bit about the time dilation. Obviously the Visigoths are not 1600 years old. So now if Aric spends even a few days on the Vine planet at least a few decades should pass on Earth right? I mean noone can control the dilation really. How long did it take Aric to get to the Vine planet? Time was dilating all that time too I imagine. I doubt he used a worm hole since the Vine would have used that in the first place to invade Earth. I bet he will come back in the same time period. I can't imagine Ninjak being 60 years old when Aric returns.

I may have missed the part when Aric learns about Alaric's fate. My bad

[jakgrimm]

Ok say the Vine only came to Earth one time 1600 years ago to plant plantlings. Right now it makes no sense. Why only once, 1600 years ago? It is kind of cheap in a way that we get our hero out of the 1 time the Vine visit our planet. At least kidnap for a few years and cultivate a hero. I know all of this can be explained later, but the way the editorial team is going I am sure they will not address it. I understand about destiny and suspension of disbelief all that, he was meant to wear the armor etc. But the odds that you visit a whole planet only once and kidnap the guy who is destined to destroy your whole heritage is nuts. The old Valiant spider aliens kidnapped for many years at least. Anyone know why the armor was on the ship that kidnapped Aric in the first place? Destiny again?

I am not against destiny really but make it feasible at least, and somewhat believable.

[bribri]

Ok say the Vine only came to Earth one time 1600 years ago to plant plantlings. Right now it makes no sense. Why only once, 1600 years ago? It is kind of cheap in a way that we get our hero out of the 1 time the Vine visit our planet. At least kidnap for a few years and cultivate a hero. I know all of this can be explained later, but the way the editorial team is going I am sure they will not address it. I understand about destiny and suspension of disbelief all that, he was meant to wear the armor etc. But the odds that you visit a whole planet only once and kidnap the guy who is destined to destroy your whole heritage is nuts. The old Valiant spider aliens kidnapped for many years at least. Anyone know why the armor was on the ship that kidnapped Aric in the first place? Destiny again?

I am not against destiny really but make it feasible at least, and somewhat believable.

Well, they didn't only take Visigoths. Let's remember they took people from all over Earth. In Issue 2 Aric lists some of them, "Ghana. China. Mayapan." Theoretically the Vine could have been on Earth for a few years collecting people. Or it could have been a few days. Whatever. I don't really see the problem with having the hero come out of the Vine's singular visit to the planet.

Also, the armor was not on the ship that kidnapped Aric. He was captured and put on a transport that reconnected with the main fleet. Issue 1 shows about 7 or so transports leaving earth. Aric was held captive in the same ship as the armor, but that is not the same vessel that took him from Earth. He even mentions this in Issue 3, "The vessels that carried us here are moored close by."

[BugsySig]

I'll admit I was not, and still am not, crazy about the one time visit idea. I guess when you take into account the astral plane they communicate through, once the seedlings have been planted, there's no need to go back, but I still like the idea that they could have been spotted over time.

For the time dilation...It seems the Colony ships travel at near-light speed, likely so they can find other planets to plant on, thus the time dilation. The Vine are also capable of some form of wormhole travel, as well, which is what allowed the fleet to travel to Earth, and Aric to Loam, so quickly.

This is likely how the Visigoths arrived to Loam. Perhaps they were even brought there by the Priests when they returned from the Colony ship. They may have wanted to study them, since they were Aric's people, or they could have been brought as some kind of offering since the Priests said they were never supposed to return home.

[jmatt]

For the time dilation...It seems the Colony ships travel at near-light speed..

They call it "Ultra-Light" so it may well be there's no passage of time.

As for why a one-time trip to Earth, as has been pointed out they have been in communication with the plantings the entire time. As they've stated, the purpose of the plantings is to secure their species from a Loam planetary extinction. Having accomplished that, why return?

As for the Visigoth's still being alive, that's significantly different than readers merely seeing that Gafti was kept alive as a contingency.

As for the art in the second half of the book, it's been noted numerous times in this thread.

[MoonChild]

GREAT ISSUE!!

[hulk181man]

To me this book was not at all as good as many of you have posted. The art in the 2nd half was rushed and un-detailed. The short amount of comic plot we had left after the origin story was burned up by mindless action. It was all filler, just like all these decompressed comics have been. I am disappointed. And the writers think bringing back the Visigoths at the end was a good plot twist?? Dude they did that exactly 2 issues ago! lol Let me guess - in 2 more issues Deidra will come back! watch out!

Do you really think the Vine would recognize the Visigoth people out of all the humans they have kidnapped over 1600 years and still keep them alive all this time? How are they still alive? They have been kidnapping humans for at least that long. This book has huge plot holes and bad editing mistakes. It is Shadowman's waitress girlfriend's name F up all over again. Does anyone still really think that Eternal Warriors scars go the opposite way in 1 or 2 pictures because he was scratched twice? lol. Its is poor editing plain and simple. Any other excuse at this point is purely damage control.

And how did Aric know his uncle ended up sacking Rome? He learned it in the woods of Peru? I know he could have learned it at any point from the armor, etc. but it would have been nice to see. This book is losing its appeal. The whole series feels like Elveen's "FEEL MY POWER!" and it is turning me away. I was going to wait and see if XO returns to Earth to the same time period as he left it, and if so I would drop the book due to inconsistencies but I don't think I can wait that long. This is probably the last XO issue I buy, and I was a HUGE Valiant fan before this. End rant.

I share some of your disappointment. This issue has been advertised as a HUGE event issue therefore I expected Valiant to knock it out of the park! After all, if I'm looking to grow the company and attract new readers this is the place to do it. And it started out beautifully strong w/Shanhara's origin story...I was feeling psyched!!!

But once X-O shows up...ugh! Rushed art and some of the pages did feel like filler. The end was better, I enjoyed the Visigoth plot twist

I think many of us are biased in our love toward Valiant. It's hard for them to do anything wrong in our eyes. We want them to succeed and we want the books to grow and prosper...my concern here is an opportunity was missed. I fear any new readers taking a chance on this book may not come back...

[mrwoogieman]

I think many of us are biased in our love toward Valiant. It's hard for them to do anything wrong in our eyes. We want them to succeed and we want the books to grow and prosper...my concern here is an opportunity was missed. I fear any new readers taking a chance on this book may not come back...

You're forgetting those that are too harsh on the new Valiant because of their love of the old Valiant. Look at Jakgrimm's posts in this thread where he takes the new VEI to task for having a few plot holes and compares it unfavorably to Unity (a tough act to follow, no doubt).

In the end, VEI's new comic line will succeed or fail based on its content. The opinions of its advocates and detractors aren't going to change that dynamic.

[Zaphod]

In the end, VEI's new comic line will succeed or fail based on its content. The opinions of its advocates and detractors aren't going to change that dynamic.

partly true. That content isn't the cheapest on the rack and one of the few, free strengths Valiant as a brand has is the zealous love die-hard fans have for the characters. Word of mouth can make or break any company just starting out. For those that are comparing VEI to Voyager, there are also content problems people are pointing out that are poignant.

I want VEI to succeed. I probably am not going to compliment enough the good things that they are doing and be more vocal about the negative things that I don't like about these books but I don't believe there is one person who is on these boards that does not want VEI to succeed and to put out great, no fantastic content.

That said, I have voiced my concerns with many details editors on the book should have caught and while at the end of the day, these minute issues that we on a fan messageboard might not meant a thing, that we point them out is not in any way to desecrate what VEI is doing, it is the majority of the time to point out what they could be doing better.

I think hulk181man has a very good point, this is really the second big event of X-O and it failed to meet and/or eclipse the bar it had set with issue #1. It's not the end of the world, it is however concerning.

[erwinrafael]

I think the problem is with the packaging of the event. Personally, I viewed Planet Death as starting with issue #9. With that context, issue #11 reads really well as something at the midpoint of the story. The motivations of Aric were spelled out in first two issues and issue #11 showed the action. From that POV, the long fight sequence in issue #11 did not read like filler. It read like a payoff.

That's how they would package the trade anyway. Six issues starting with the "Prelude".

[BugsySig]

I think the problem is with the packaging of the event. Personally, I viewed Planet Death as starting with issue #9. With that context, issue #11 reads really well as something at the midpoint of the story. The motivations of Aric were spelled out in first two issues and issue #11 showed the action. From that POV, the long fight sequence in issue #11 did not read like filler. It read like a payoff.

That's how they would package the trade anyway. Six issues starting with the "Prelude".

Good point, but I think packaging it as an "event" to begin with was a mistake. Especially coming at the same time as Harbinger Wars, a true crossover event, creating those lofty expectations were always going to lead to some disappointment no matter how good the arc.

[lorddunlow]

I think the problem is with the packaging of the event. Personally, I viewed Planet Death as starting with issue #9. With that context, issue #11 reads really well as something at the midpoint of the story. The motivations of Aric were spelled out in first two issues and issue #11 showed the action. From that POV, the long fight sequence in issue #11 did not read like filler. It read like a payoff.

That's how they would package the trade anyway. Six issues starting with the "Prelude".

Good point, but I think packaging it as an "event" to begin with was a mistake. Especially coming at the same time as Harbinger Wars, a true crossover event, creating those lofty expectations were always going to lead to some disappointment no matter how good the arc.

This is what I was saying. #11 was really good, but VEI had it hyped as an earth-shattering issue, which it wasn't.

[hawkeyeps]

But if this all leads to Rai in 4001, minds will be blown and it will be a super big deal

[nonplayer]

I like how they have hiped up planet death. then hiped up harbinger wars then hiped up the video game and BAM! Here Have a super funny crapy heroes team title. To me its like a present youd open and inside is another present but each present gets better and better.
I was so hiped about planet death. harbinger was was kinda forgotten. Then one day I saw a put together cover and was like whooo hooo this is going to be dope. Now Im all in.
Marketing is bang on.as they do more they work more and could burn themselves out and miss stuff and make mistakes. Let hope not!

[manga4life]

X-O #11 was a good issue, and I don't think Valiant hyped up issue #11 more so than they did the entire Planet Death storyline and since it's only just begun I think we need to chill and see where it goes. All good epics start slow and build as they go, it gives us something to look forward to.

[erwinrafael]

X-O #11 was a good issue, and I don't think Valiant hyped up issue #11 more so than they did the entire Planet Death storyline and since it's only just begun I think we need to chill and see where it goes. All good epics start slow and build as they go, it gives us something to look forward to.

True. It's like Avengers Ultron Unlimited. First issue was not really that exciting and just purely set up. By the end of the arc, we had the best arc of the Busiek Avengers run.

[BugsySig]

X-O #11 was a good issue, and I don't think Valiant hyped up issue #11 more so than they did the entire Planet Death storyline and since it's only just begun I think we need to chill and see where it goes. All good epics start slow and build as they go, it gives us something to look forward to.

True. It's like Avengers Ultron Unlimited. First issue was not really that exciting and just purely set up. By the end of the arc, we had the best arc of the Busiek Avengers run.

Bull$#!t

[hawkeyeps]

X-O #11 was a good issue, and I don't think Valiant hyped up issue #11 more so than they did the entire Planet Death storyline and since it's only just begun I think we need to chill and see where it goes. All good epics start slow and build as they go, it gives us something to look forward to.

True. It's like Avengers Ultron Unlimited. First issue was not really that exciting and just purely set up. By the end of the arc, we had the best arc of the Busiek Avengers run.

Bull$#!t

From Downtown....IT'S GOOD!

3 pointer Bugs

[BugsySig]

X-O #11 was a good issue, and I don't think Valiant hyped up issue #11 more so than they did the entire Planet Death storyline and since it's only just begun I think we need to chill and see where it goes. All good epics start slow and build as they go, it gives us something to look forward to.

True. It's like Avengers Ultron Unlimited. First issue was not really that exciting and just purely set up. By the end of the arc, we had the best arc of the Busiek Avengers run.

Bull$#!t

From Downtown....IT'S GOOD!

3 pointer Bugs

[erwinrafael]

To belabor a point, looks like something really got lost in the translation.

Dark art with a lot of character and mood:



Shiny shimmering X-O Manowar with an overdose of yellow and orange in the background: