Shadowman #6 Discussion

[erwinrafael]

Well, after the expectations set by the previous issue, this is a step down. I think my real problem with the book is that Jack is just uninteresting. It's the supporting cast that's picking up the book. The decrease in mystical elements also did not help the issue.

The art is also not as sharp as the previous issue. We are used to seeing Lee Garbett's fill ins but his Jack just looks too much like Alex.

[bribri]

Funny to see that they've address the waitress' name: Anne Alafair...

[BugsySig]

Yeah, Justin took our suggestion for the name

Funny enough, my first girlfriend in Middle School was named Anna Ambrose (also blonde )

I liked the issue very much. We get a little more Dr. Mirage, and apparently she has history with the Abettors. We get a great scene with Samedi and Darque, and Samedi behaving how one would expect at the end. Slid action and plenty of story development.

The art changes were a little more noticeable this issue, and Jack is being colored too Caucasian compared with the initial issues, which takes away from his natural diversity.

I thought this was a good character building issue for Jack considering the three concurrent story lines. Now that those are all tying in together--Samedi, Jack, Mirage--it will allow for more development. The break for issue #0 should also allow the art duties to be straightened out.

[blujay]

This arc seems like it's looking to build up Darque. And being that he's one of the big bads of the VU it makes sense, since we barely know anything about him as of this point.

I think this issue was pretty good, and I'm looking forward to the rest of this arc and Shadowman #0

[Stringer]

Man, this issue just didn't do it for me to be honest. Especially the art after the 7th page, it was just sloppy and weak. I don't know why they're doing so many art changes within a single issue right now. I mean it works over at Harbinger, but not here. We now see Shadow in a mission after he accepted his father's legacy, but I didn't find him fearsome or scary when he needed to be, nor did he display any interesting fighting prowess in his confrontations. The art just wasn't there to properly convey the story. And thrust me, I hate to say things like this because I like this creative team and want things to work for this character, but it had to come out.

Now, I did like the conversation between Darque and Samedi at the beginning of the issue. I found Alyssa's words amusing too, but Jack's side of dialogue were handled quite poorly, I think. This issue comes as a huge disappointment when compared to the previous one. Sigh, I hope things work out for the better.

[BugsySig]

Man, this issue just didn't do it for me to be honest. Especially the art after the 7th page, it was just sloppy and weak. I don't know why they're doing so many art changes within a single issue right now. I mean it works over at Harbinger, but not here. We now see Shadow in a mission after he accepted his father's legacy, but I didn't find him fearsome or scary when he needed to be, nor did he display any interesting fighting prowess in his confrontations. The art just wasn't there to properly convey the story. And thrust me, I hate to say things like this because I like this creative team and want things to work for this character, but it had to come out.

Now, I did like the conversation between Darque and Samedi at the beginning of the issue. I found Alyssa's words amusing too, but Jack's side of dialogue were handled quite poorly, I think. This issue comes as a huge disappointment when compared to the previous one. Sigh, I hope things work out for the better.

Geez...at least buy me dinner first...

[Keith]

Enjoyed the story, overall, especially the interaction between Darque and Baron Samedi. Very curious to see where this is all going, and what role Dr. Mirage may play.

The beef I had, aside from artwork inconsistency throughout the issue, was Shadowman being so easily subdued by the zombies. Fight fight fight... uh oh... zombies... I give up.

[BugsySig]

Enjoyed the story, overall, especially the interaction between Darque and Baron Samedi. Very curious to see where this is all going, and what role Dr. Mirage may play.

The beef I had, aside from artwork inconsistency throughout the issue, was Shadowman being so easily subdued by the zombies. Fight fight fight... uh oh... zombies... I give up.

That's a good point that hasn't occurred to me...We know he's more powerful in Deadside, but he was still able to punch through Twists demon cops in #2. Maybe he didn't want to desecrate the dead... ...that's something I could see from Jack, especially with the waitress' body there.

[Stringer]

Man, this issue just didn't do it for me to be honest. Especially the art after the 7th page, it was just sloppy and weak. I don't know why they're doing so many art changes within a single issue right now. I mean it works over at Harbinger, but not here. We now see Shadow in a mission after he accepted his father's legacy, but I didn't find him fearsome or scary when he needed to be, nor did he display any interesting fighting prowess in his confrontations. The art just wasn't there to properly convey the story. And thrust me, I hate to say things like this because I like this creative team and want things to work for this character, but it had to come out.

Now, I did like the conversation between Darque and Samedi at the beginning of the issue. I found Alyssa's words amusing too, but Jack's side of dialogue were handled quite poorly, I think. This issue comes as a huge disappointment when compared to the previous one. Sigh, I hope things work out for the better.

Geez...at least buy me dinner first...

Bummer! I was hoping my charm and suave would suffice.

[blujay]

The beef I had, aside from artwork inconsistency throughout the issue, was Shadowman being so easily subdued by the zombies. Fight fight fight... uh oh... zombies... I give up.

Guess, I wasn't the only one who had trouble following the fight. I'm hoping it carries over into #7. Also Jack's Batman moment in the beginning was pretty cool

[cavemold]

Good issue . BARON is wildcard charcter! The sucidde was intense. Good art bye patch! 4/5.

[jmatt]

I hate saying this but this title does nothing for me. Nothing.

The one interesting voodoo-ey twist we got in the last issue was Baron Samedi -- and by the middle of this issue he's a regular looking guy. You would think Baron Samedi would have some kind of Caribbean or Cajun or Creole accent or affectation. Give us something.

I'll say it again, the freaking monkey has more character than anyone in the book.

I've been complaining about the dialogue since the first sneak preview and it hasn't gotten any better. And so very, very little happens in each issue.

Zircher's loss will be felt.

I'm almost at the point where I wish they would just reboot it after only 6 issues.

And just judging by the cover, I think #0 is gonna make it worse instead of better. The 1950s Shadowman Loa dressed up in a trench coat and hat like something out of a Mickey Spillane novel? Oy.

[Zaphod]

First 7 pages, very promising. Everything after, mediocre to poor. The writing for Jack is just wildly inconsistent, the art after that 7th page was quite poor and as has been suggested, Shadowman is nothing special. He's the weakest part of this book and that does not bode well. The action sequences/dialogue towards the end were...painful to read, right out of some of the truly poor 90's Acclaim books.

Sorry JJ.

And I hate his scythe. What is the deal with his costume/scythe is it just always with him, what is the background of how his powers work. I am all for mystery but 6 issues in, we need some answers. Hopefully it can be found in Shadowman #0

This isn't the friggin X-O Armor, here.

This might be the second Valiant book I drop.

[SJS4]

Definitely a weak issue, and imho this isthe weakest VEI title going right now.

I actually liked the pages with Garbett. But overall i am not digging Jack at all and having Dr Mirage show up in her superhero costume again is really cheesy imho.

Hope this title improves over time.

[Zaphod]

and having Dr Mirage show up in her superhero costume again is really cheesy imho.

I don't necessarily see Dr. Mirage's outfit as a super hero costume. It seems like it is just her style, she is a television personality after all, they dress to stand out. Nothing about the new Dr. Mirage bothers me all that much (I don't think I caught on to her being a reality television star the first time around) my problem is all pretty much with Jack/Shadowman.

[hawkeyeps]

Such a shame to follow up the strongest issue with perhaps the weakest issue, a real missed oppurtunity. People were buzzing about #5 it raised the bar and #6 failed to cross it.

I think Zircher's leaving had a huge effect on this book and things were rushed and changed at the last minute, even Garbett's art didn't seem on point. Garbett did great work in XO and his Harbinger issue but this art felt rushed and clunky. The Edwards pages were interesting but a real departure from the other styles, I get that it was the Dr.Mirage scene but it was split and didn't feel smooth.

Even the colouring which was stellar in previous issues suffers here, that panel where Jack grabs the bald guy in a big yellow burst mark...yikes

2.5/5, I was hoping for so much more.

[erwinrafael]

and having Dr Mirage show up in her superhero costume again is really cheesy imho.

I don't necessarily see Dr. Mirage's outfit as a super hero costume. It seems like it is just her style, she is a television personality after all, they dress to stand out.

But she was appearing from the shadows in this issue.

[bygranddesign]

The story was good

The opening scene with The follower sacrificing himself for Baron was brilliant all around.

I liked the Soma drug angle with the low level Brethern thugs.

I liked dr. Mirage's scene with Dox .. And the ghost lamp.

But overall it definitely was a step down from the previous issue. After the first few pages by Zircher there is a drop off in art and some scenes look rushed. The dialogue was a bit clunky at times ... And I think we need to get in Jacks head more. Some more inner dialogue where his personality can start to really show. I think as fans we need to be wooed (in a platonic sense) He needs to break out some knowledge and impress us .... He worked in a museum that dealt in Voodoo culture and dark magic so obviously he should be familiar with some of the stuff he is dealing with and should be able to speak intelligently about it.

Also I do feel like the transition from Jack to Shadowman (and vice versa) should be a bigger part of a scene. It doesn't have to happen every time ... But like Bruce Banner turning into the Hulk it should be a fun transition to watch and for the artist to create.

Jack throws a punch ... And mid punch he transitions to Shadowman.. Etc.

Overall ... I was hoping for more but i still enjoyed it
Story 7/10 - Anne Alafair was a nice save ..
Art. 5/10

[TheFallen]

Reading the replies here looks like some people are really against this issue but I enjoyed it. Yes, the first part was awesome but unfortunately it was ruined for me because I had already read the preview.

I did think that this issue read very quickly. We had that awesome beginning and I do agree that it kind of slowed down afterward. I can forgive that because this is setting up plot points and different stories. I am quite happy to take a couple of issues of building as long as there is an issue like #5 thrown in the mix.

I was so excited about Baron Samedi but he looks like he is going to become an anti-hero and I really don't want to see that. I want him to be an actual threat to Jack, not an ally. I do hope we see more of both versions of Samedi, the assassin and the skeleton in the Deadside.

I really liked seeing Dr. Mirage and the affects of the Ghost Lamp. I didn't expect to see that but it was great that Anna Alafair was also there as a spirit.

Overall it was still a god issue but not as good as Harbinger Wars. I won't be dropping this title anytime soon as I still think it is thoroughly enjoyable. The fact that the supporting cast is stronger than the main character is something I find appealing.

[BugsySig]

I'm surprised so many didnt like the issue as much as last month's. I felt it was pretty similar in quality outside the art issues.

I would like to see one stand alone issue that just follows Jack around for a day (and a night ). We've seen these departure issues here and there already in the other titles (Bloodshot #7 for example). It would be a good way to gain insight into, and develop the character of, Jack while also allowing for some artistic catch up on the book.

I think the #0 will help with that last part as well, but the focus for that issue seems to be on Darque and the Shadowman legacy and not Jack.

[TheFallen]

I wonder how people would have felt about the overall issue without reading the preview? The preview set a benchmark for this issue that was never matched.

Also, I was surprised about Soma as that is a drug (carisoprodol) that is/was used heavily in the Pro Wrestling world. I thought they were making the drug and we would see some pro wrestler cameos (okay, that last part was a joke )

[nscc]

I enjoyed this issue, it is building to something epic, so I will forgive some slowness in the plot for now.

Many good plot points.

Darque manipulating Samedi, and Samedi approaching Shadowman to work against Darque which is as it should be since, no Big Bad Evil Guy (BBEG) wants to be controlled by another BBEG. I don't expect them to be friends, but "The enemy of my enemy..." and all that. I'm really looking forward to this and seeing more voodoo elements coming out now.

Another appearance of Dr. Mirage, she knowing about Doc is nice, makes an easy way for her to pop in and out as need be. I REALLY thought the ghost lamp was cool. It's a typical D&D-esque item, and nice to see it show up in this book since it fits so nicely.

I liked Soma, the distilled nightmares of children. I am totally using that in the next pathfinder RPG game I GM.

Enjoyed the story, overall, especially the interaction between Darque and Baron Samedi. Very curious to see where this is all going, and what role Dr. Mirage may play.

The beef I had, aside from artwork inconsistency throughout the issue, was Shadowman being so easily subdued by the zombies. Fight fight fight... uh oh... zombies... I give up.

My take-away from that is Samedi kicked his *SQUEE*, knocked him down, and then he animated the dead. Anne spoke to him and the shock reverted him to Jack for a moment since the speech balloon changed to normal. Then the issue ended, so I think it was more of a few seconds, and we will see him break free soon after the shock of seeing her fades away.

Really happy with Shadowman. Looking forward to the rest of this Arc.

[Bone-A-Fach-ee]

Pros: Ghost lamp was a cool idea. Zircher's artwork. Samedi seems like a decent character.
Cons: I have no connection to Jack/Shadowman at all. could care less about him. Too many supporting characters. Dox, Alyssa, Darque, Samedi, Mirage, etc. And no Jaunty this issue? He was one of my favorite characters!
I like Garbett's work, but yes, his Jack does resemble Alexander, and he was more "white" this issue as well.
As far as the colors, there is no topping Brian Reber, but did he only do the pages with Zircher and Garbett? Did Guy Major team up with Neil Edwards? I think the colors have become one of the signatures of this book, and without Reber, the book suffers dramatically. He is a phenom in his field. Nothing against Major, it's just hard to match up to Reber.

One thing that has been on my mind is this. "Best Idea Wins". If this storyline is the best idea they can come up with, I'm worried about the future of Shadowman, AND whatever titles come next. If this run is considered a "best idea", I'm afraid for any title that comes next, or is thought of as not as good an idea as this title.

Loving A&A, Harby, X-) and Bloodshot. Really having a hard time getting into Shadowman, and he was one of my favorites from VH1.

[jmatt]

The problem with this title is that they chose to skip the most fun part of any hero-based comic book: the character origin. It's like they chose to start writing the book at issue #89 and figured they could eventually treat us to the whole back story.

And "I don't know who my parents are and threw away an amulet and now I have special powers" doesn't count.

We know nothing about any of this, the Abettors, the Loa, the scythe, Jaunty, Darque, Deadside, the Citadel, the Brethren, etc etc and we're supposed to be content that one day "all will be revealed". Nothing is introduced, we get no romance, we the readers are just supposed to take it all at face value.

As I've stated before, I feel like I'm walking in on a movie that's three-quarter of the way over and as such, I'm having difficulty caring about how it's going to end.

And as someone pointed out, the fact that the main character can be Jack in one panel and Shadowman in the next is just dumb. It not only misses an opportunity to give the reader a cool transition moment, but if I was a new reader of the book I'd be totally confused.

Ug. I'm sorry for being so negative but I really wanted so much more for this title. And I don't know how you fix it, you only get one chance to make a good first impression.

[Bone-A-Fach-ee]

I guess I just don't know why Jack is so hung-ho about being Shadowman. He's very cocky, and Batman-y in his demeanor when he's Shadowman. It's actually kind of annoying, since we know that he has no idea what he's doing, and is a newbie at this whole thing. Like why is he just going on a drug bust? Because (we have to infer) that Dox told him to? Just not sure what his motivation is to be Shadowman.
When he IS Shadwoman, sure, someone can say, "well, that's the loa talking, not Jack", but that's even more confusing. So, when he's Shadowman, is he Jack too? Or is he completely taken over, and Jack has no consciousness at that point? But we see that's not the case because he sees Alifair, and talks as Jack, not SM.
Ugh....