Saga

[caniac]

Really? if I'm not mistaken Harbinger 1 touched on date rape, Pete used his powers to influence kris to sleep with him. Though implied, it is rape. Face it comics today are catering to an older audience therefore the content t inside is going to be for an older audience.

But it was implied. This both sets up a bit of ambiguity (did he really rape her?) and does not show the graphic depiction of the act - which isn't necessary. The content is still there, but it depends on the mind of the audience to fill with what they choose.

Film is the other place where this is a big issue. There will always be skin flicks that are produced just for the people that like to see sex/nudity (why those people don't just buy porn is beyond me). But nudity and graphic depictions of sex are often not necessary in the least. Sometimes it's contextually important, but often it's gratuitous. Sex sells, so the film industry makes sure there is nudity and sex in films they want to sell. There are countless movies where no graphic scenes are included, but get the point across very well. In rewatching many of the films I enjoyed as a child of the 80s, I see now that there were lots of very vulgar jokes and scenes that were completely above my head. I didn't see the dirty parts of it, because they were implied or otherwise not obvious. Now, as an adult I can appreciate (or not - depends on the movie) the more adult messages in these films. I wish Saga didn't have the explicit sex stuff, because otherwise it seems like a compelling read.

On the other hand, I don't think nudity is always gratuitous. In Life is Beautiful, there is a scene where Roberto Benigni's character comes across a mass grave of bodies (all nude - men and women). A grotesque scene used for shock value, but considering it was the holocaust this was a very true portrayal of a historical event. They could have avoided it, but I think it actually added depth to the film (which has lots of humor). It was not tasteless in the least, which is rarely seen in American cinema. Our comics unfortunately are starting to become pre-Hollywood script boards instead of the separate media they should be.

"Life is Beautiful" is not an American film.

Indeed. Italian, 1997.

One of the Best

[caniac]

Saga is the best comic of 2012 to me...but if my belief was the majority, the world would be in chaos!

[Phantom]

Implied or not the fact is is there for the rear to see. If 2 robots having sex and a giant with infected testicles upsets a reader then date rape should upset them just as well. To me date rape in a realistic world is worse than 2 robots having sex in a fantasy world.

This part of the thread brings back memory.
Had a similar conversation about the Spanish film 'talk to her' (2002) way back before I was married.

Their is a rape in the film, but the way it is shoot is out of reality. When you watch the film, you know what is happening, but how the story I'd told - you only realise the rape occurred when you reflect on the film latter.

My stance was rape is rape. Others disagreed because of the love story involved.

Like I sad before - I would not give saga to many people, and as best comic of 2012. People may pick it up for a present / get back into / or worst vase give it to under 15 year old - then not read comics again.

[ian_house]

If we are widening the scope here then are we saying that no violent/sex-laden films should be allowed to win Oscars? Or be labelled the best film of the year? This seems crazy, just because they are the best doesn't mean it's for everyone.

[Savant]

If I were to pick the best comic of 2012, it would be Saga because it was the best comic of 2012. If I were to choose a best comic of 2012 for non-comic readers to try, it would probably be Hawkeye.

My vote would easily go to Kieron Gillen's Journey Into Mystery. Even in a top 5 or top 10 list, Saga wouldn't be in consideration.

But, to each their own. It's good there's a title out there that's getting good sales and some people seem to really enjoy....I'll probably give the 2nd tpb a shot, but if I still don't like it I'll bail out of that comic.

[Spylocke]

Just a few minutes ago finished the first TPB because I'm not nearly rich enough to afford back issues.
I thought it was good but not great. With any series, television or otherwise, the introduction tends to be my least favorite part. I think 7 though 10 so far have been stronger reads.

[Phantom]

If we are widening the scope here then are we saying that no violent/sex-laden films should be allowed to win Oscars? Or be labelled the best film of the year? This seems crazy, just because they are the best doesn't mean it's for everyone.

No.

Like I said I didn't even know saga was best 2012.
I am interested promoting the industry of comics and TPB's. I am mearly pointing out that I would not give out saga to many people in fear of turning them off comics /tpb's.
I personally think the book is great, I am just pointing out that when an industry gives a title like that to a book ~ people outside the industry might think I will give it a try. Maybe they will be put off by what they see.
Their is a big differance between what people (who do not read comics) percieve comics to be about ~ and what alot of comics are actually about.
Maybe it deserved the award, I don't know or care to argue that point. Just want the industry to grow, and it seems to be in tpb form doing well.

Anyway I am not talking to you your not my friend anymore their where so many grimme tale variants at LSCC and no one to joke about them with.
Seriously their was a shop just of grimme tale books.

[Phantom]

I had no idea Saga was being touted as some sort of ambassador to non-readers. I can't think of any comic that adequately fills that niche. If I want to suggest a comic I ask people what movies they like and suggest something based on that. There are some people I would suggest Saga to but not others. I think it's a really good sci-fi/fantasy romance/adventure mash-up but not for everyone.

It's not. Diamond isn't advertising to non-comic readers. All the different sites that called it their pick aren't advertising to non-comic readers.

If I were to pick the best comic of 2012, it would be Saga because it was the best comic of 2012. If I were to choose a best comic of 2012 for non-comic readers to try, it would probably be Hawkeye.


Saga 10 was awesome, btw.

Actually a great idea.
Best title or tpb/ graphic novel for new readers / non comic readers award.
I think that would work wonders to introduce new people.

Saying that, comic shop owners probably do it everyday. But to pick a few titles and promote them as such ~ may get them into top sellers lists in New york times etc ~ get the word out

[Xtianhardy]

Implied or not the fact is is there for the rear to see. If 2 robots having sex and a giant with infected testicles upsets a reader then date rape should upset them just as well. To me date rape in a realistic world is worse than 2 robots having sex in a fantasy world.

This part of the thread brings back memory.
Had a similar conversation about the Spanish film 'talk to her' (2002) way back before I was married.

Their is a rape in the film, but the way it is shoot is out of reality. When you watch the film, you know what is happening, but how the story I'd told - you only realise the rape occurred when you reflect on the film latter.

My stance was rape is rape. Others disagreed because of the love story involved.

Like I sad before - I would not give saga to many people, and as best comic of 2012. People may pick it up for a present / get back into / or worst vase give it to under 15 year old - then not read comics again.

"Talk to Her" is an amazing film. Pedro Almodovar is a great filmmaker. I keep meaning to take the time to watch his latest, "The Skin I Live In."

[Phantom]

Glad someone has seen it! Amazing film
Thanks or the tip on the newer film - something to hunt down

[xodacia81]

Talk To Her is one of those films that sort of sneaks up on you. I expected it to be quality, but I never expected it to be one of the best of the decade, which it is. I consider it the finest film Almodovar has made and he fully deserved the Oscar.

[Phantom]

Group hug - or a 'go team' moment ( all hands in the middle ).
Glad others have seen that fantastic film.

Back to saga, looking forward to next issue. I got my issue a week late - so less time to wait for next issue

Also just read shadow man. - amazing. Bedlam is pulling more interest from me. Prophet looks like it has it's direction back.

[MarrowMan]

I love Almodovar's films. Bad Education, Todo Sobre Mi Madre, Volver, Broken Embraces and The Skin I live in, all masterworks.

[Phantom]

Bad education, thought that was a german film, off now to look it up. No I don't have to - I am thinking of the ' educators '.

More films to watch didn't know his other films where as good. Cheers guys.
Nb - glad Americans are interested in euro cinema

[Cyberstrike]

If we are widening the scope here then are we saying that no violent/sex-laden films should be allowed to win Oscars? Or be labelled the best film of the year? This seems crazy, just because they are the best doesn't mean it's for everyone.

Exactly.

If you don't like the cussing, sexual content, nudity, and other adult themes in books like Saga, Black Kiss 2, and Sex, then don't read them.

[400yrs]

#11 was awesome. I laughed. I nearly cried........ SAGA!!!!

[tarheelmarine]

I find the backlash somewhat odd here. Especially Greg's... I think thats like saying you would give someone Unity and they would just focus on the fact you can see Mother God's nips and the more than suggested incest.

That's not my point.

My point is that Diamond and other groups have named Saga the BEST of 2012 for the industry.
Saga is representing ALL comic collectors to the "world at large" as the BEST of our industry.

I would be embarrassed for ANYONE outside of comics to read Saga as a representation of the BEST of comics.

Saga as Saga for fans of Saga is fine. Saga as "BEST IN COMICS" is something else.

I think it shows the industry realizes the future of comics is in "mature" comics. The label on the back of Saga says "mature." I take a look at what I am reading and its Conan, Manhattan Projects, Saga, and Valiant. With the exception of the Valiant comics, I would say all of them are various degrees of mature. Aside from Valiant I do not care for the superhero comics being produced. Certainly Saga has material in it that can be offensive, but it's aimed for adults. Much earlier in this thread we discussed how the series is discussing human trafficking, which I think needs discussion. Offensive topic? Interesting way to work it into a comic and give it more attention?
I don't like everything in Saga, but I do find it a compelling and entertaining read which I think makes worthy of being the best in 2012.

[tarheelmarine]

On the other hand... I've just read issue 10:

NNNNNOooooooooooooooooooooooooo LIAR CAT........ NOoooooooooooooooooooo!

I agree. I have another month until 11 ships out here.

[MarrowMan]

LOL Yall haven't read #11 yet? Well, Liar Cat is as dead as a doornail. No he's fine, jk.

[Phantom]

Spoiler.

No I haven't picked up my comics for two weeks. Very busy, I even go past the shop most days. Just no time to stop. Hoping to pop in on this wednesday.

[nutflush76]

I can't believe this country and what it takes offense to.

In just about every comic on the stands, someone is killed. Comics are all about violence. People want to hold VEI up as not for mature readers? Look at an issue of Bloodshot, how many different ways are people killed, or maimed in each issue? Not to mention how much violence is directed toward Bloodshot himself.

But the minute someone takes off their clothes, it's I can't believe this is the best of 2012?

In my opinion, the sex is more realistic than anything else that goes on in comics. For some reason our culture thinks that it's ok to see someone brutally murdered, but two people having sex is some terrible thing.

end

That being said, issues 7-11 have been much better, in my opinion, than issues 1-6. The story has really picked up quite a bit and the addition of Marko's parents has really added another dimension to the book. Oh, and the end of issue 11:

[Spylocke]

I'll try to be as vague as I can regarding spoilers for issue 11.
It was an interesting feint followed by an emotional punch to the gut.

The only issue I have is that looking for translations online of Esperanto so I can understand what is written in the flashback make it difficult to get immersed in the story.

I agree that there is a weird double-standard when it comes to sex and violence in the United States (I can't say the same for other countries since I have never lived in one). The most ardent fans of violence get the vapors and fall to their fainting couches once the subject of sex is brought up.

So far I think the sex depicted in Saga has helped character development. The scene with Prince Robot IV early on showed that he was somehow emotionally (or is it electronically?) scarred in some way. The scene at the beginning of issue 11 made for a good segue into discussing what having a child means.

Like the scene in the piano recital in the issue of Harbinger that introduced Flamingo it seems more about character than titillation. This is coming from a guy who is rather prudish. For example I'm too embarrassed to buy any comics from Zenescope because of the covers.

[GGSAE]

I've read up to issue 11, and I don't mind the sex scenes...I think in the case of that troll thing, it was a bit over-the-top, but other than that the series has been pretty solid. I enjoy Saga as one of 7 books on my pull-list, I wouldn't rank it ahead of Harbinger, but it's a very good read...

[400yrs]

I've read up to issue 11, and I don't mind the sex scenes...I think in the case of that troll thing, it was a bit over-the-top, but other than that the series has been pretty solid. I enjoy Saga as one of 7 books on my pull-list, I wouldn't rank it ahead of Harbinger, but it's a very good read...

I'd say Harbinger 6-10 have been on par with Saga. Issues 1-5, no way. Each issue of Saga has been amazing. Harbinger, not until the character story arc.

[caniac]

I've read up to issue 11, and I don't mind the sex scenes...I think in the case of that troll thing, it was a bit over-the-top, but other than that the series has been pretty solid. I enjoy Saga as one of 7 books on my pull-list, I wouldn't rank it ahead of Harbinger, but it's a very good read...

I'd say Harbinger 6-10 have been on par with Saga. Issues 1-5, no way. Each issue of Saga has been amazing. Harbinger, not until the character story arc.

I agree with that...Saga and Harby are te best books out right now