Harbinger #8 discussion

[Carson]

I'm wondering if Livewire is going to join Peter's group over time, I have the odd feeling as if she will break free from Harada and do so.

Hey Manga, did you decide you were going to ever read 90s Valiant, or are you just gonna keep it pure and only read the new VEI books? I'd say do the latter. The new books are as good or better. Maybe read the first two Magnus arcs though, those were brilliant and also introduced Rai.

I love seeing a newcomer's perspectives on these books, without knowing what happened 20 years ago and expecting the some iteration of the same thing to happen just around the corner. Must be nice to not have any preconception of what "should" happen next!

Anyways, 20 years ago Livewire and Stronghold were eggbreakers, then they rebelled against Harada and joined a new team, Secret Weapons. It looks like they are headed in the same direction.

Do you want to know that kind of 20 year old info? I don't wanna taint the experience with what has gone before if its more fun not knowing.

[ShadowTuga]

LMAO, I still can't take this book out of my head. Every month, I spend the next 2 days after reading Harbinger just thinking about the current issue, but this was even more gripping than usual. I think this issue had ALL the stuff we've been loving and then some more. I started reading it thinking that Torque would be a "muscle head", and the challenge for the Renegades would be on the "how to deal with such a *SQUEE*?!" type. 8 months later I should have learned that you can not predict Dysart's moves. You just can't.

My girlfriend asked me what was wrong with me, because all she could see or hear was my reaction while reading this. And I still have no words to quite describe it.

How do you tell someone how great this was, if they are not reading it?

Will the Marvel and DC zombies ever know what they are missing each month?



To Torque, Flamingo, Faith, Kris, Pete, Harada, Livewire: I've known you guys for less than a year, yet I can not imagine a comic reading life without you. I have laughed out loud, almost cried, felt disgusted, got warmsy feelings, and everything in between, AND *SQUEE* ME!- this is JUST the beginning of the ride.

I don't think I ever loved a comic book with this intensity in such a short time. Something very special is unfolding before my eyes, heart and soul. I don't know where it is going, but I am 100% positive it's going to smell like sweet *SQUEE*.

[manga4life]

I'm wondering if Livewire is going to join Peter's group over time, I have the odd feeling as if she will break free from Harada and do so.

Hey Manga, did you decide you were going to ever read 90s Valiant, or are you just gonna keep it pure and only read the new VEI books? I'd say do the latter. The new books are as good or better. Maybe read the first two Magnus arcs though, those were brilliant and also introduced Rai.

I love seeing a newcomer's perspectives on these books, without knowing what happened 20 years ago and expecting the some iteration of the same thing to happen just around the corner. Must be nice to not have any preconception of what "should" happen next!

Anyways, 20 years ago Livewire and Stronghold were eggbreakers, then they rebelled against Harada and joined a new team, Secret Weapons. It looks like they are headed in the same direction.

Do you want to know that kind of 20 year old info? I don't wanna taint the experience with what has gone before if its more fun not knowing.

I have no plans of reading old Valiant and am choosing to stick with the current stuff only, but I don't mind spoilers to a certain degree. I really want Livewire to join Peter's camp and Stronghold too, but I would also like to see Stronghold stay with Harada and have her jump to Peter and company alone. So many cool stories and feuds could come out of that.....

[Carson]

I have no plans of reading old Valiant and am choosing to stick with the current stuff only, but I don't mind spoilers to a certain degree. I really want Livewire to join Peter's camp and Stronghold too, but I would also like to see Stronghold stay with Harada and have her jump to Peter and company alone. So many cool stories and feuds could come out of that.....

Cool deal. I wish I could read these new books with no back story!

Judging by what we've seen of Stronghold, he's pretty well under Harada's spell. It'll take something really nasty to make him switch sides!

[manga4life]

I love how this book is finally starting to feel like a team book, it was something that I wanted to see out of Harbinger since I heard it was a team boom back in the day and I'm glad its starting to feel like one. At first it was very Peter influenced and felt like a solo book, but now with Faith, Torkelson, and Kris in the mix it's coming together nicely.

[Dallow Spicer1]

I say this at the risk of sounding like I'm off my rocker....

I freaking shed a couple tears when big Torque saw little Torque in Torquehalla and said "Come on, little man. I'll take care of you."

Beautiful. Just beautiful. Then when he emerged with that huge smile and started thrashing PRS... man, I was there with him. Epic moment.

The rest of the book was great but that scene touched me in a way not many comics do.

Hell of a job to Dysart.

Yeah, man.... my *SQUEE* was hanging out a little after than part. We describe them as manly tears.

Got to echo your sentiments fellas, this was a very poignant moment within another tremendous issue of Harbinger. Loved the new characterisation of Torque and I genuinely hope this book (along with the other VEI books) can reach the bigger audience they richly deserve!

5 out of 5

[FormerReader]

Great book! There was so much compacted into this issue. I liked seeing how Kris is the brains behind the team and Peter is the brawn. She is becoming a character that is more easy to relate to.

[Spylocke]

Broke down and bought a digital copy even though I should have a physical one waiting for me in my pull box. Just couldn't wait.
Though not as Torque-centric as I thought it was going to be it was a great issue for fleshing everyone out a little. Harada seemed to be actually stressed out, Kris and Charlene's chat made me like them both a lot more and Torque...Dysart actually made me like him. Also Livewire. For not having much panel time throughout the series I like her character a great deal. In a book full of people with severe issues her calm demeanor stands out all the more.

This issue had the feel of a classic comic to me. Torque is like a *SQUEE* version Billy Batson. Like Faith he revels in his new power with an infectious enthusiasm. Now that I've written that sentence I'm even more interested in seeing a relationship between the two.

One thing I'm curious about, though. Jake seemed to get his hands on a dress that fit him rather fast. I think that after Pete's persuasion he just made his private dress into his public one. This could have easily devolved into a cheap, slightly homophobic gag with a wimpy Jake but I thought it was pulled off nicely.

[Bone-A-Fach-ee]

I should have a few pages of original art arriving soon from the UK.







DAN

How? How? I'd kill for that action page with Pete and Kris. Garbett is fast becoming one of my favorite artists. With his stint on X-O and now Harby!?!?! Impressed is an understatement. And how did you get those pages!?!?

[BugsySig]

I should have a few pages of original art arriving soon from the UK.







DAN

How? How? I'd kill for that action page with Pete and Kris. Garbett is fast becoming one of my favorite artists. With his stint on X-O and now Harby!?!?! Impressed is an understatement. And how did you get those pages!?!?

Dan's Harbinger ability is collecting original VALIANT art. He was activated in the early 90s and hasn't been able to stop since.

[400yrs]

Just read it. That was a bit confusing.

I like the cartooniness of the art in this issue alot, but there are spots in alot of the more recent issues where it looks like the art is getting sketchier.

[Carson]

I should have a few pages of original art arriving soon from the UK.







DAN

How? How? I'd kill for that action page with Pete and Kris. Garbett is fast becoming one of my favorite artists. With his stint on X-O and now Harby!?!?! Impressed is an understatement. And how did you get those pages!?!?

Dan's Harbinger ability is collecting original VALIANT art. He was activated in the early 90s and hasn't been able to stop since.

[Crow331]

Sheesh I finally caught up! I decided to start over completely with issue #1 because I have been months and months behind on all my Valiant books. I've mostly been avoiding these boards for a while to make sure I didn't run into any spoilers. So I read 1-8 of Harbinger over the weekend. I also read XO 1-8. Shadowman 1-3. I have read the first 3-4 issues of A&A and Bloodshot but still have to catch up on the rest of the issues. I will probably start over with issue #1 on those as well asap.

Surprisingly to me I like Harbinger the best! It's really good. I was never a huge fan of the original Harbinger, partially because I'm not really a fan of team books. Now that the title is heading that way we'll see if I continue to like it. I do think Shadowman is more my style and I think it will be my favorite book once it gets going.

[pixierosa]

I should have a few pages of original art arriving soon from the UK.







DAN

Dan's Harbinger ability is collecting original VALIANT art. He was activated in the early 90s and hasn't been able to stop since.

Best Harbinger theory I've heard in a while!

[Phoenix8008]

Finally got all my January issues yesterday and can finally comment on this issue after actually reading all of it, not just the spoiler pages (which were very misleading as far as Torque went). First off, the art was okay, but not the best it's been. More importantly though, the story was AMAZING! I was blown away by the scene where Big Torque met Little Torque! This is either first or second place for the most poignant scene so far in any Valiant comics (the other was in X-O where he visited the former battlefield in Italy and got the broken sword out of the ground). I didn't quite cry, but I wouldn't hold it against anyone who did. I did get a little choked up over it and had to take it around and show a few family members how awesome that scene was. Can't wait for next issue.

Kinda surprised that Pete couldn't take out the other 2 choppers by himself. They definitely have a ways to go till they are a combat capable team. I find that refreshing really. The more I think about it, the more unusual it is. How many fights have there been in this comic? 1. Pete vs. PRS in issue #2; 2. Supervised school combat in #3 or 4; 3. Pete vs. pipehead and Harada in issue #5 or 6; then PRS attacking the kids here in issue #8... and they don't know how to fight so they are trying to run away without dyng! How AWESOME is that!? 4 or 5 battles in 8 issues? And most of those were Pete by himself. Remebering back to Harby from the 90's it seems like they fought somebody every issue. They had several run ins with the Eggbreakers to build up that animosity before Torque even got killed in issue #6 or 7. I love the time they've taken just to set the stage and build the team like this. Now they will need to learn how to work together and fight back for the battles ahead, but it totally makes sense that most of them would be running and hiding from a military grade assault, especially with PRS's bomblets and psiot interference jammers.

We'll see how it works now that Torque is on the team, but with this issue Harbinger may have just taken over from X-O as my favorite Valiant comic!

[lorddunlow]

I really have a sneaking suspicion that Dysart is going to kill another member of the team off instead of Torque. Especially with this new, much more compelling version of Torque. I actually can see Charlene getting killed in this version. She's already a tragic character, one whom might serve the story best by meeting a tragic end. Maybe she goes supernova to save the team. I can see completely incinerating everything around her - burning herself up in the process - with Pete protecting the other renegades. Seems like a good endgame to the Harbinger Wars, if you ask me. She could even save Huxley in the process for some irony.

I'd really hate to see this new Torque go away. I'd also hate for the VEI books to completely mimic the VH1 stuff. This change would really throw us old timers for a loop if someone else died instead of Torque. It would also make us worry that Torque may still be killed off at any time, or lull some into a false sense of security, allowing him to be killed off later and surprising everyone at that time.

Faith would be the most controversial Kirkman-esque character death, but I hope that doesn't happen, as I feel Faith, Kris, and Pete are absolutely necessary for the spirit of the team to remain true to original.

[pixierosa]

I really have a sneaking suspicion that Dysart is going to kill another member of the team off instead of Torque. Especially with this new, much more compelling version of Torque. I actually can see Charlene getting killed in this version. She's already a tragic character, one whom might serve the story best by meeting a tragic end. Maybe she goes supernova to save the team. I can see completely incinerating everything around her - burning herself up in the process - with Pete protecting the other renegades. Seems like a good endgame to the Harbinger Wars, if you ask me. She could even save Huxley in the process for some irony.

Compelling idea, and a redemption for Charlene. I, too, hope they don't mimic the old too far. They haven't yet, but they did introduce the team members in the same order. We will have to see how this new Torque behaves, and I'm sure given his entertainment choices that he will be a bit of a *SQUEE*, but his character is so much better this time around. Lots of avenues to explore, including his new avatar style psiot ability.

I think Faith, Kris and Pete are the core, though. Faith has always served her namesake, and she is the heart of the operation. Kris is the brains and the will. She's also the humanizer and moralizer. Pete is the muscle. Their personal awareness is growing with their powers. The changes are subtle but they are there. Can't wait to follow their journey more.

I love this book.

[MarkRoseHFX]

Dan's Harbinger ability is collecting original VALIANT art. He was activated in the early 90s and hasn't been able to stop since.

I KNEW there was something going on there

[BugsySig]

I really have a sneaking suspicion that Dysart is going to kill another member of the team off instead of Torque. Especially with this new, much more compelling version of Torque. I actually can see Charlene getting killed in this version. She's already a tragic character, one whom might serve the story best by meeting a tragic end. Maybe she goes supernova to save the team. I can see completely incinerating everything around her - burning herself up in the process - with Pete protecting the other renegades. Seems like a good endgame to the Harbinger Wars, if you ask me. She could even save Huxley in the process for some irony.

Compelling idea, and a redemption for Charlene. I, too, hope they don't mimic the old too far. They haven't yet, but they did introduce the team members in the same order. We will have to see how this new Torque behaves, and I'm sure given his entertainment choices that he will be a bit of a *SQUEE*, but his character is so much better this time around. Lots of avenues to explore, including his new avatar style psiot ability.

I think Faith, Kris and Pete are the core, though. Faith has always served her namesake, and she is the heart of the operation. Kris is the brains and the will. She's also the humanizer and moralizer. Pete is the muscle. Their personal awareness is growing with their powers. The changes are subtle but they are there. Can't wait to follow their journey more.

I love this book.

I think we will see the team together for a while. Originally Torque lasted for the first 7 issues (plus #0 if you want to include that), so that's the equivalent of at least 30-35 issues by today's standards.

I do agree that Charlene meeting a tragic end would be much more fitting and poignant this time around than Torque. Of course a shocking Faith death could propel the team into an entirely new direction, and would have the biggest impact overall. Either way, the death of a female character in this iteration would maintain a male-female balance that opens up more romantic possibilities (including the ever popular "Gay Pete" possibilities).

[pixierosa]

I really have a sneaking suspicion that Dysart is going to kill another member of the team off instead of Torque. Especially with this new, much more compelling version of Torque. I actually can see Charlene getting killed in this version. She's already a tragic character, one whom might serve the story best by meeting a tragic end. Maybe she goes supernova to save the team. I can see completely incinerating everything around her - burning herself up in the process - with Pete protecting the other renegades. Seems like a good endgame to the Harbinger Wars, if you ask me. She could even save Huxley in the process for some irony.

Compelling idea, and a redemption for Charlene. I, too, hope they don't mimic the old too far. They haven't yet, but they did introduce the team members in the same order. We will have to see how this new Torque behaves, and I'm sure given his entertainment choices that he will be a bit of a *SQUEE*, but his character is so much better this time around. Lots of avenues to explore, including his new avatar style psiot ability.

I think Faith, Kris and Pete are the core, though. Faith has always served her namesake, and she is the heart of the operation. Kris is the brains and the will. She's also the humanizer and moralizer. Pete is the muscle. Their personal awareness is growing with their powers. The changes are subtle but they are there. Can't wait to follow their journey more.

I love this book.

I think we will see the team together for a while. Originally Torque lasted for the first 7 issues (plus #0 if you want to include that), so that's the equivalent of at least 30-35 issues by today's standards.

I do agree that Charlene meeting a tragic end would be much more fitting and poignant this time around than Torque. Of course a shocking Faith death could propel the team into an entirely new direction, and would have the biggest impact overall. Either way, the death of a female character in this iteration would maintain a male-female balance that opens up more romantic possibilities (including the ever popular "Gay Pete" possibilities).

I don't care about his sexuality, but I do think it's kind of fun that they stuck that little bit of ambiguity in there this time around, too. Joe's "apparition" in Pete's room had "flirty girl looks 101" down pat. Was a bit more subtle than "my friend and I were wrestling around on his bed"

[bygranddesign]

Call me a romantic .. Or shallow ..or whatever

But i do want Peter and Kris to end up together


I think the whole emotional drama of being a young adult with super powers and his complicated relationship with Kris - is part of what makes Harbinger special.

on the one hand you can see it as a simple superhero soap opera but if done right - and its been done great so far - it can be something that is very poignant and compelling with the potential for a huge emotional payoff.

[sonicdan]

Dan's Harbinger ability is collecting original VALIANT art. He was activated in the early 90s and hasn't been able to stop since.

It's true!
DAN

[pixierosa]

Call me a romantic .. Or shallow ..or whatever

But i do want Peter and Kris to end up together


I think the whole emotional drama of being a young adult with super powers and his complicated relationship with Kris - is part of what makes Harbinger special.

on the one hand you can see it as a simple superhero soap opera but if done right - and its been done great so far - it can be something that is very poignant and compelling with the potential for a huge emotional payoff.

I'd like to see them together, too, but I am a hopeless romantic. It has been well done, and Pete's redemption in her eyes is going to be the pivotal game changer. The groundwork has already been laid. Fingers crossed that it will be well done.

[pixierosa]

Dan's Harbinger ability is collecting original VALIANT art. He was activated in the early 90s and hasn't been able to stop since.

It's true!
DAN

[manga4life]

I wouldn't mind seeing Pete and Kris end up together romantically (and of her own free will), but not this soon and not until the current plot is settled first. And all this talk about killing characters off this early seems crazy to me, they're finally putting the team together and already people are talking about killing off team members? I understand they my have done this in the original books, but these aren't the original books and folks should chillax a bit on killing the team members.