Forbidden planet SUPPORTS VALIANT, WITH PERSUASION FROM ME

[hawkeyeps]

This was a very firey thread and really got my juices flowing, I took my rage to CBR and we were raining fury on Marvel in the "VALIANT keeps killing it" thread, Steve Wacker showed up and had this to say-

What is true is that Valiant's had a helluva year. I really look forward to seeing what Warren and the gang have up their sleeve for 2013.

SW

Pretty decent of the guy considering we were (justifibly) ripping on him and Marvel calling him Duche, F'n idiot what have you

There's no SQUEEs over there so it can get pretty spicy.

But back on topic of the thread, Wacker and Marvel seems to think VALIANT is doing well.

[BugsySig]

This was a very firey thread and really got my juices flowing, I took my rage to CBR and we were raining fury on Marvel in the "VALIANT keeps killing it" thread, Steve Wacker showed up and had this to say-

What is true is that Valiant's had a helluva year. I really look forward to seeing what Warren and the gang have up their sleeve for 2013.

SW

Pretty decent of the guy considering we were (justifibly) ripping on him and Marvel calling him Duche, F'n idiot what have you

There's no SQUEEs over there so it can get pretty spicy.

But back on topic of the thread, Wacker and Marvel seems to think VALIANT is doing well.

I was the one who called him a *SQUEE* idiot

That's the one that garnered a response

[GGSAE]

\Who's Steve Wacker? I would have used the SideShow Bob response, 'Steve ought to do more thinkin' and less wackin'.

[hawkeyeps]

This was a very firey thread and really got my juices flowing, I took my rage to CBR and we were raining fury on Marvel in the "VALIANT keeps killing it" thread, Steve Wacker showed up and had this to say-

What is true is that Valiant's had a helluva year. I really look forward to seeing what Warren and the gang have up their sleeve for 2013.

SW

Pretty decent of the guy considering we were (justifibly) ripping on him and Marvel calling him Duche, F'n idiot what have you

There's no SQUEEs over there so it can get pretty spicy.

But back on topic of the thread, Wacker and Marvel seems to think VALIANT is doing well.

I was the one who called him a *SQUEE* idiot

That's the one that garnered a response

I was the one that called him a Duche

We're fightin' the good fight at CBR!

[Phoenix8008]

\Who's Steve Wacker? I would have used the SideShow Bob response, 'Steve ought to do more thinkin' and less wackin'.

According to my Google-Fu, Stephen Wacker is "... comic book editor on Guardians of the Galaxy, Nova, Spider-Man, Daredevil, Punisher, Captain Marvel, Hawkeye, & Marvel Animated." So, one of many editors at Marvel. Another link says he's also worked at DC.

[MarkRoseHFX]

Here's another one for you. Bloodshot vs Revival (Image) both started in July.

Bloodshot- July 29,224 August 16,024 September 14,517 October 14,382 November 13,156

Revival - July 18,039 August 10,486 September 13,943 October 15,251 November 14,098

[MarkRoseHFX]

forgot to add Revival is $2.99

[Paul Nolan]

forgot to add Revival is $2.99

Revival was seriously underordered and is the image title most likely to follow a walking dead trend. Also talks of a tv series has excited the speculator market for it.

For sales comparisons you really need to compare a big 2 hero series with bloodshot, not " Rural Noir"

[400yrs]

This was a very firey thread and really got my juices flowing, I took my rage to CBR and we were raining fury on Marvel in the "VALIANT keeps killing it" thread, Steve Wacker showed up and had this to say-

What is true is that Valiant's had a helluva year. I really look forward to seeing what Warren and the gang have up their sleeve for 2013.

SW

Pretty decent of the guy considering we were (justifibly) ripping on him and Marvel calling him Duche, F'n idiot what have you

There's no SQUEEs over there so it can get pretty spicy.

But back on topic of the thread, Wacker and Marvel seems to think VALIANT is doing well.

I was the one who called him a *SQUEE* idiot

That's the one that garnered a response

I was the one that called him a Duche

We're fightin' the good fight at CBR!

Link? Stephen Wacker is a hell of an editor.

[400yrs]

forgot to add Revival is $2.99

Revival was seriously underordered and is the image title most likely to follow a walking dead trend. Also talks of a tv series has excited the speculator market for it.

For sales comparisons you really need to compare a big 2 hero series with bloodshot, not " Rural Noir"

I agree that these aren't really good comparisons. Those numbers for Revival are great and show a strong trend in the right direction.

[the1captain]

forgot to add Revival is $2.99

Revival was seriously underordered and is the image title most likely to follow a walking dead trend. Also talks of a tv series has excited the speculator market for it.

For sales comparisons you really need to compare a big 2 hero series with bloodshot, not " Rural Noir"

I respectfully disagree. It's not fair to compare sales with the big 2. Valiant is a much smaller indie company. For a company their size sales so far appear to be good. But these numbers on any DC or Marvel book would likely lead to cancellation.

[cjv]

Neither of these statements are true. Look at the diamond numbers...

Your graph is suspect.

Your lines are all screwed up. The Blue XO lines goes to issue 7 (correct), but so does the light blue Bloodshot line, even though the data indicates there areonly 5 issues. The A&A line is issue 1 and 2. The Harbinger line goes to issue 5 (it should be 6), while the Shadowman line does to issue 6 (even though there is only 1 issue). And it isn't that the lines are mislabeled. There should be a line going to 1 issue (which, by definition, can't show a decline since it is one data point), 4, 5, 6, and 7 issues. You have lines going to 2, 5, 6, 7, and 7 issues.

Without an X-axis, you can't interpret the graph.

Lastly, look at your data, and look at the lines. Assuming there is no transformation of data (since you didn't say there is any), based on the graph, the line blue Bloodshot line, for example, starts off at 6.5 times what it ends at. Yet the starting sale number (29,000) is only about 2.5 times the final sales number. In addition, your starting values seem...interestingly...evenly spaced, when the actual data is not as evenly deistributed.

At best, you f*'d up your graph by accident. At worst, you posted something that was deliberately misleading to make a point.

If you want to see an accurate graph, go here -



(link = https://www.dropbox.com/s/3wrgt3jj5fdvyjv/Sales.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)


While there is a decline, it looks like they are leveling off at around 13,000 to 15,000.

(and I am an idiot, so I don't know how to post an inline graphic)

[cjv]

Also, your chart is complete rubbish. How can you have colored lines representing each title covering 7 data points when A&A has only published 5 issues, and Shadowman 2? Its nonsense.

The chart shows trending. But if you don't like it how about commenting on the numbers. The numbers are ALL going down. Also, as a guy who only has 376 posts I have to ask...do you own this forum? Because it's pretty rude to tell someone they aren't welcome if you don't.

No, sorry to tell you, your chart is completely wrong.

Chris

[cjv]

Can I just ay that as a recent Valiant fan and a newcomer to these boards I'm a bit disappointed to see the level of personal abuse thrown at a guy politely making a couple of pessimistic points about Valiant. I really hope that sort of thing is not the norm around here.

Different opinions are always welcome. But you need to back them up. When you post a graph showing your "data" and the graphed is completely wrong, in MY opinion that pretty much invalidates most of what you said!

Chris

[GGSAE]

Talking about the graph, cjv, was so three pages ago!

[cjv]

Talking about the graph, cjv, was so three pages ago!

Yeah, I see that now.

[Paul Nolan]

forgot to add Revival is $2.99

Revival was seriously underordered and is the image title most likely to follow a walking dead trend. Also talks of a tv series has excited the speculator market for it.

For sales comparisons you really need to compare a big 2 hero series with bloodshot, not " Rural Noir"

I respectfully disagree. It's not fair to compare sales with the big 2. Valiant is a much smaller indie company. For a company their size sales so far appear to be good. But these numbers on any DC or Marvel book would likely lead to cancellation.

Sorry, I should have said, "trend" not sales.

[MarkRoseHFX]

forgot to add Revival is $2.99

Revival was seriously underordered and is the image title most likely to follow a walking dead trend. Also talks of a tv series has excited the speculator market for it.

For sales comparisons you really need to compare a big 2 hero series with bloodshot, not " Rural Noir"

Two independent books both released in the same month. How do you figure it's not a good comparison?

regardless of TV talk or whatever. Bloodshot had movie talk. The comparison is totally fair.

[MarkRoseHFX]

I agree that these aren't really good comparisons. Those numbers for Revival are great and show a strong trend in the right direction.

Two independent comics both released in the same month. Why is the comparison not good? Because Revival is trending slightly better?

[BugsySig]

I agree that these aren't really good comparisons. Those numbers for Revival are great and show a strong trend in the right direction.

Two independent comics both released in the same month. Why is the comparison not good? Because Revival is trending slightly better?

I think it's fair. And I also think what it shows, along with some other comparisons mentioned, is that a "successful" non Big 2 book will probably fall in the 12-18k range. That is where all the VEI books are at, so I see that as being successful thus far.

[Paul Nolan]

forgot to add Revival is $2.99

Revival was seriously underordered and is the image title most likely to follow a walking dead trend. Also talks of a tv series has excited the speculator market for it.

For sales comparisons you really need to compare a big 2 hero series with bloodshot, not " Rural Noir"

Two independent books both released in the same month. How do you figure it's not a good comparison?

regardless of TV talk or whatever. Bloodshot had movie talk. The comparison is totally fair.

Because Image comics, especially in their 20th year have consistently and ludicrously been under-ordered by retailers. The trends for Image comics are incomparable to anything apart form each other for that reason for a start.

The trend of something like Hypernaturals from Boom! is a much more apt comparison.

[MarkRoseHFX]

Because Image comics, especially in their 20th year have consistently and ludicrously been under-ordered by retailers. The trends for Image comics are incomparable to anything apart form each other for that reason for a start.

The trend of something like Hypernaturals from Boom! is a much more apt comparison.

I don't get how what you are speculating nullifies comparing the sales of two independent books that were released in the same month. Valiant hopes to be where Image is at some point, I stand behind that this is a good comparison.

[Chiclo]

Because Image comics, especially in their 20th year have consistently and ludicrously been under-ordered by retailers. The trends for Image comics are incomparable to anything apart form each other for that reason for a start.

The trend of something like Hypernaturals from Boom! is a much more apt comparison.

I don't get how what you are speculating nullifies comparing the sales of two independent books that were released in the same month. Valiant hopes to be where Image is at some point, I stand behind that this is a good comparison.

There is not going to be a perfect comparison. The only point I see where your comparison might fall apart is the price point.

Yours is a reasonably chosen comparison.

[MarkRoseHFX]

There is not going to be a perfect comparison. The only point I see where your comparison might fall apart is the price point.

Yours is a reasonably chosen comparison.

Indeed I did have to be fair and mention the price point. It was the closest book released that month from an independent company that wasn't a licensed property. I couldn't find anything to really compare A&A to.

[Paul Nolan]

You also have to take into account that Revival was ordered under the FOC system. Retailers could adjust their orders, without penalty up to 3 weeks before publication.

Valiant are only joining the FOC system next february.

Also with Revival true sales figures are not known We know the numbers that issue 1 sold to the US market between its Release on 11ths July and it's sell out a week later. We don't know how many its 2nd 3rd and 4th printings sold. Its very possible that if you summed all printings together of each issue that the standard comics trend might apply. But the numbers are so incomplete for not only issue 1 but all subsequent issues it is impossible to tell and therefore as numbers are so incomplete it is not a very good comparison.

Most Image Comics go to a second printing at the moment. All we know is that it takes 3 weeks for their second prints to go to market, and they do not appear on the following months charts. currently the 300th selling diamond comic sales estimates at about 4500 to 5000 in the US. 2nd printings could easily rest at 301 in the chart for all we know.